AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Havkai]

2 minutes ago, Yziel said:

Hello! I'm trying to figure out the list building rules for this game and it's honestly fairly confusing how allies work.

I have 40k Slaanesh Daemons and old WHFB Beasts of Chaos that I would like to use together if possible.

From what I've figured out I have to run Slaanesh and ally in Beast of Chaos.

You are allowed to bring 400pts of Allies at 2000pts. And I think you can only bring 1/4 in number of units?

There is also a Battalion for Beast of Chaos that make the units Slaanesh and Beast of Chaos, does that not make them take up ally slots/points because they have the keyword now?

Can I use allied units for my mandatory Battleline?

I assume I don't get any of the army bonuses for my allied units?

I'm not sure if the actual book explains things better than online sources like Wahapedia does but it's super confusingly written, please help

For every 3 units from your allegiance you can 1 allied unit. That's in 1/4. You can't spend total of more than 400 points on allies. It can be either 1 big unit or plenty of small units. In Beasts of Chaos case, if you take Depraved Drove battalion, all beastmen gain SLAANESH keyword therefore counts as slaanesh unit for army, with no restrictions. All beasmen units that are non-conditional baatleline (like gors and ungors) are also battleline in Slaanesh army when taken in depraved drove.

[Yziel]

4 minutes ago, Havkai said:

For every 3 units from your allegiance you can 1 allied unit. That's in 1/4. You can't spend total of more than 400 points on allies. It can be either 1 big unit or plenty of small units. In Beasts of Chaos case, if you take Depraved Drove battalion, all beastmen gain SLAANESH keyword therefore counts as slaanesh unit for army, with no restrictions. All beasmen units that are non-conditional baatleline (like gors and ungors) are also battleline in Slaanesh army when taken in depraved drove.

So I can bring 6 units of Gors with a Doombull if I wanted as long as I take the Depraved Drove even if it would exceed both 400pts and 1/4 of units?

Just want to make sure I understand it correctly.

I thought about bringing some cheap Ungors for Battleline and maybe some Raiders to try to fish for Depravity Points.

[Enoby]

23 minutes ago, Yziel said:

Hello! I'm trying to figure out the list building rules for this game and it's honestly fairly confusing how allies work.

I have 40k Slaanesh Daemons and old WHFB Beasts of Chaos that I would like to use together if possible.

From what I've figured out I have to run Slaanesh and ally in Beast of Chaos.

You are allowed to bring 400pts of Allies at 2000pts. And I think you can only bring 1/4 in number of units?

There is also a Battalion for Beast of Chaos that make the units Slaanesh and Beast of Chaos, does that not make them take up ally slots/points because they have the keyword now?

Can I use allied units for my mandatory Battleline?

I assume I don't get any of the army bonuses for my allied units?

I'm not sure if the actual book explains things better than online sources like Wahapedia does but it's super confusingly written, please help

Thankfully with Slaanesh you'll have no rules problems combining Slaanesh and Beasts of Chaos

You're correct on the ally rules, but thankfully don't need them when you take the Depraved Drove battalion. This is in the Beasts of Chaos book (though you can likely find it online) and it includes the vast majority of BoC models, giving them the Slaanesh keyword which means you can take them as part of the core Slaanesh army, including their battlelines counting as our battleline. You can effectively cherry pick what you want in BoC and put it into that battalion.

It does come with a cost (150pts I think) but thankfully the BoC themselves are cheap so it's not too bad

You're correct that ally units don't count towards battleline, and that they don't benefit from allegiance abilities. On the other hand, Slaanesh doesn't offer many allegiance abilities anyway to BoC besides artifacts, but BoC work very well for generating depravity points.

[Yziel]

I really appreciate the help in unravelling this.

The only thing I'm still fuzzy about is the slightly mixed replies on Depraved Drove units counting towards Battleline or not.

Could the two of you (or anyone else) clarify why the do/do not count because I think I'll struggle to figure out on my own >.<

[Enoby]

4 minutes ago, Yziel said:

I really appreciate the help in unravelling this.

The only thing I'm still fuzzy about is the slightly mixed replies on Depraved Drove units counting towards Battleline or not.

Could the two of you (or anyone else) clarify why the do/do not count because I think I'll struggle to figure out on my own >.<

In depraved drove, they count as battleline as they are part of a Slaanesh army, outside of depraved drove they do not count as battleline as they are allied  So take depraved drove and you'll be okay!

Havkai correctly pointed out that they need to be unconditional battleline; things like Gor and Ungor are All unconditional battleline means is that it's battleline so long as it's not an ally. Conditional battleline would be something like "battleline if in a Beasts of Chaos Army" or "battleline if a Doombull is your general" - I don't think you need to worry about this though

[Yziel]

7 minutes ago, Enoby said:

In depraved drove, they count as battleline as they are part of a Slaanesh army, outside of depraved drove they do not count as battleline as they are allied  So take depraved drove and you'll be okay!

Havkai correctly pointed out that they need to be unconditional battleline; things like Gor and Ungor are All unconditional battleline means is that it's battleline so long as it's not an ally. Conditional battleline would be something like "battleline if in a Beasts of Chaos Army" or "battleline if a Doombull is your general" - I don't think you need to worry about this though

That clears it up a lot, now I just need to figure out what is worth bringing and then I can get to list building and rebasing a ton of goat people

[ibel]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

 Could I ask what your list was? It seems like everyone is having very varied results (just look at @Havkai's post) and I'm not sure if there's a common demoninator in lists that are working and lists that aren't, or if it's more about adapting to the playstyle. 

I Played 3 Soulgrinder as the Formation with Keeper (he/she died in 1 Round) with the Arcanits

I played Glutos,Keeper,Sigvald with Luzeraid Haist and 5 CW, 11Archer and a Lord of Afflicton against the DoK Snakes - The Combi Snakes+Morathi was my exitus

Against Serras I Played Something like this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh (6 bis 10er Drop)
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
-Realm: Chamon
Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Host Option: General - Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battel Rapture

The Masque (130)
- General

- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Host Option: General
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Judgement of Excess
Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (150) (Bat)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140) (Bat)
Units
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180) (Bat)

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180) (Bat)

5 x Sickblade Seekers (200) (Bat)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
The Burning Head (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
And lost, okay he get the doppelturn from 2 to 3 AND make big Mistakes with the SkinkShooting and his Salamanders.

Same List against the Legion List: Again doppeltrun against me in Turn 1 to 2 and I get no Doppelturn back so I lost BIG after his Turn 3.

My Problem is not to make DP but to spend them. Next time i go with this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battle Rapture
Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Predator's Torc

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

Could this Work ?

[Havkai]

3 minutes ago, Yziel said:

That clears it up a lot, now I just need to figure out what is worth bringing and then I can get to list building and rebasing a ton of goat people

About efficiency of Beastmen in Slaanesh army.... it is very debatable, because most of the stuff in the book works for Hedonites which are not beastmen

[CeleFAZE]

1 hour ago, Yziel said:

Hello! I'm trying to figure out the list building rules for this game and it's honestly fairly confusing how allies work.

I have 40k Slaanesh Daemons and old WHFB Beasts of Chaos that I would like to use together if possible.

From what I've figured out I have to run Slaanesh and ally in Beast of Chaos.

You are allowed to bring 400pts of Allies at 2000pts. And I think you can only bring 1/4 in number of units?

There is also a Battalion for Beast of Chaos that make the units Slaanesh and Beast of Chaos, does that not make them take up ally slots/points because they have the keyword now?

Can I use allied units for my mandatory Battleline?

I assume I don't get any of the army bonuses for my allied units?

I'm not sure if the actual book explains things better than online sources like Wahapedia does but it's super confusingly written, please help

Allegiance works based on keywords, and our allegiance is based on the Slaanesh keyword, so beasts of chaos in a depraved drove battalion can be added in as normal, you don't need to make them allies. Anything that does not have the slaanesh keyword but is in our ally list would be allies, which has a 400 point limit in 2000 point games, and only 1 in 4 units in your army can be an ally unit. You are correct that allies do not gain our allegiance abilities, and they cannot count for battleline requirements (though they still count for limits on behemoths, artillery, and leaders). Also note that the depraved drove only gives the slaanesh keyword, not the hedonite keyword, which excludes them from benefiting from some abilities, like our exploding 6's to hit from euphoric killers.

It's a little intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of how keywords work in the game it's fairly straightforward.

Edited March 15, 2021 by CeleFAZE

[Yziel]

8 minutes ago, Havkai said:

About efficiency of Beastmen in Slaanesh army.... it is very debatable, because most of the stuff in the book works for Hedonites which are not beastmen

I'll make sure to consider the real world cost efficency vs in game cost efficency of running them

Edited March 15, 2021 by Yziel

[CeleFAZE]

13 minutes ago, ibel said:

I Played 3 Soulgrinder as the Formation with Keeper (he/she died in 1 Round) with the Arcanits

I played Glutos,Keeper,Sigvald with Luzeraid Haist and 5 CW, 11Archer and a Lord of Afflicton against the DoK Snakes - The Combi Snakes+Morathi was my exitus

Against Serras I Played Something like this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh (6 bis 10er Drop)
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
-Realm: Chamon
Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Host Option: General - Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battel Rapture

The Masque (130)
- General

 

- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Host Option: General
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Judgement of Excess
Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (150) (Bat)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140) (Bat)
Units
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180) (Bat)

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180) (Bat)

5 x Sickblade Seekers (200) (Bat)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
The Burning Head (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
And lost, okay he get the doppelturn from 2 to 3 AND make big Mistakes with the SkinkShooting and his Salamanders.

Same List against the Legion List: Again doppeltrun against me in Turn 1 to 2 and I get no Doppelturn back so I lost BIG after his Turn 3.

My Problem is not to make DP but to spend them. Next time i go with this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battle Rapture
Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150)
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Predator's Torc

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

Could this Work ?

I'm not certain how well the karkadrak lord will do on his own. He won't have anything he can support, and without our more offensive buffs he may have trouble dealing damage. If you have them available you may be better served by swapping him and the enrapturess out for the masque and a bladebringer on exalted chariot.

[ibel]

6 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

If you have them available you may be better served by swapping him and the enrapturess out for the masque and a bladebringer on exalted chariot.

This wpuld be the other Option.

I first take him because he has with his 3+ Save and 5++ more Durability so i hope he Stand a Turn longer or so and can generate W3 DP more because of retreat and Charge again in the Goodseeker host. Mask and Exalted would be cool to jes.

I Like the Enrapture because of the One extra shootieUnit.

In my Feeling we/a Hedonit Player must produze in his First and Second turn (in his owen round i Mean) 7 to 10 DP because of Summonig. Or not? I dont see enough Standing power for all the Army without many Summoning (34 to 42 between Raound 1 and 4 ) because every Unit in our army is to overpriced.

[Enoby]

46 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I'm not certain how well the karkadrak lord will do on his own. He won't have anything he can support, and without our more offensive buffs he may have trouble dealing damage. If you have them available you may be better served by swapping him and the enrapturess out for the masque and a bladebringer on exalted chariot.

I agree here; even before our current book when S2D did get EK, most Slaves heroes and monsters (besides Archaon) didn't do enough unless they were also buffing another unit. Unfortunately the S2D army is usually focused on better defences and meh offensive power, which makes them good battleline fodder and objective cappers, but they usually lack a punch. 

Some people have suggested big units of chaos warriors with Glutos, and while that might work, I just don't think their pitiful damage will disrupt the opponent enough to win the game. In AoS, a good offence usually beats a good defence as being able to take a unit out leaves your opponent with fewer choices. That doesn't mean defense doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter as much as offense imo. 

@ibel did you have any reason to take Hellstriders? They just seem a bit rubbish unfortunately 

[CeleFAZE]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I agree here; even before our current book when S2D did get EK, most Slaves heroes and monsters (besides Archaon) didn't do enough unless they were also buffing another unit. Unfortunately the S2D army is usually focused on better defences and meh offensive power, which makes them good battleline fodder and objective cappers, but they usually lack a punch. 

Some people have suggested big units of chaos warriors with Glutos, and while that might work, I just don't think their pitiful damage will disrupt the opponent enough to win the game. In AoS, a good offence usually beats a good defence as being able to take a unit out leaves your opponent with fewer choices. That doesn't mean defense doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter as much as offense imo. 

@ibel did you have any reason to take Hellstriders? They just seem a bit rubbish unfortunately 

I actually like hellstriders, in theory. They're one of the fastest battleline units in the game, which can make a real difference in the scenarios where battleline units score more. While their wounds per points are not as efficient as slickblades, when taking into account their 50% higher save and bravery of 8 with an icon, they aren't in totally dire straits. I would love to see them come down in price, but they're certainly not the worst choice in the book as they currently stand.

[Enoby]

5 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I actually like hellstriders, in theory. They're one of the fastest battleline units in the game, which can make a real difference in the scenarios where battleline units score more. While their wounds per points are not as efficient as slickblades, when taking into account their 50% higher save and bravery of 8 with an icon, they aren't in totally dire straits. I would love to see them come down in price, but they're certainly not the worst choice in the book as they currently stand.

I think they sat in a really nice place at 100 points, as a special Slaanesh battleline. I could even see them being okay at 120 because, as you said, they have a nice niche at the moment. Unfortunately 150 is such a large chunk for fast battleline that will do nothing but be fast. 

Speed is super important, but I think they need a little more to stand up in a list

[TimeToWaste85]

Anyone tried something bonkers like running three bladebringers on exalted Seeker chariots? 750 points, 75 attacks. 
 

I realize it requires owning three (which I do...)

[Enoby]

59 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Anyone tried something bonkers like running three bladebringers on exalted Seeker chariots? 750 points, 75 attacks. 
 

I realize it requires owning three (which I do...)

I do think chariots have something going for them the biggest turn off is that they're super difficult to carry. 

I think they're almost like a mini KoS without a CA. They do about 6 damage from their attacks at a 4+ save, but they do additional MWs - on average about 4. They're not one size fits all, but I think one could find a place comfortably in a list to do a lot of damage to a clump of units. 4MWs to a large number of units would be a big help and lots of depravity.

[azdimy]

9 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Anyone tried something bonkers like running three bladebringers on exalted Seeker chariots? 750 points, 75 attacks. 
 

I realize it requires owning three (which I do...)

GW official base size for them is the worst. They cheapened on the box and gave a chariot base for them when in fantasy battle they were on a 150x100mm same as a soulgrinder which translated to a 160mm round base. I based mine proper and its a disadvantage game wise but at least I don t have 50% of the model hanging off the base

[Iradekhorne]

Guys, i see sub-factions of the wrath of everchosen on ur lists.

The battletomme get out after the wrath of everchosen, how can be still valids? Can i missing any rule?

 

Thanks!

[azdimy]

1 minute ago, Iradekhorne said:

Guys, i see sub-factions of the wrath of everchosen on ur lists.

The battletomme get out after the wrath of everchosen, how can be still valids? Can i missing any rule?

 

Thanks!

We don t know for sure, but ghb2020 says wrath of the everchosen is valid so unless they faq it s no longer the case, we still have another 3 months until the ghb 2021 or a new edition drop to use those sub factions

[CeleFAZE]

13 hours ago, Enoby said:

I think they sat in a really nice place at 100 points, as a special Slaanesh battleline. I could even see them being okay at 120 because, as you said, they have a nice niche at the moment. Unfortunately 150 is such a large chunk for fast battleline that will do nothing but be fast. 

Speed is super important, but I think they need a little more to stand up in a list

Back in the last book I basically viewed them as upgraded chaos warriors. Same wounds, slightly worse wounding, more attacks, 9" more movement, same bravery with the icon. In this case we're paying 10-12 points per model for those upgrades (and now the hedonite keyword). Which I agree is more than they should cost, but in my estimate it isn't terrible. If I'm not going for low drops I can see myself running a certain amount of both hellstriders and chaos warriors for different reasons. I don't think they should be outright relegated to the strategic bin, especially with the ability to be battleline and part of the seeker cavalcade. I think with the cavalcade that the striders can work well in concert with slickblades and blissbarb seekers, allowing them to be strategic blockers that allow the more offensive exalted seekers more freedom to do what they want where they want.

I guess that's a roundabout way of saying that I really want to see them come down in cost so they can fill these roles way better, though I can still feel justified including them as they are now.

[CeleFAZE]

3 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

Guys, i see sub-factions of the wrath of everchosen on ur lists.

The battletomme get out after the wrath of everchosen, how can be still valids? Can i missing any rule?

 

Thanks!

Technically nothing in our current book has been restructured in a way that creates broken rule interactions with these subfactions. In addition, there are factions represented in the book that have not received updates since its release, which leads me to believe it will remain usable for the foreseeable future. 

If anything we may see WotEC no longer valid after the Belakor book, as his Legion of Chaos Ascendant received its initial rules in WotEC, and with the dead chaos warrior on his base we may see some antagonism between him and Archaon, which may include updates for things like Knights of the Empty Throne.

[ibel]

16 hours ago, Enoby said:

That doesn't mean defense doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter as much as offense imo. 

Okay, jes Maybe. I will try him because I hope he survives a littel bit longer (1-2 Rounds) than a Exalted Chariot. And in this time i have a Unit, a Leader, on the field and in best case he makes 3 to 5(6) more DP and this is okay in a list when not much more makes DP.

16 hours ago, Enoby said:

did you have any reason to take Hellstriders? They just seem a bit rubbish unfortunately

Because, they are Batteline, in the Battalion ! (but jes they are 20 Points to expensive for 5..... so 15-20% like almoust everythink in the new book)

[pnkdth]

23 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Anyone tried something bonkers like running three bladebringers on exalted Seeker chariots? 750 points, 75 attacks. 
 

I realize it requires owning three (which I do...)

Seeker chariots in a Seeker Cavalcade battalion in Godseekers could be an interesting variant with similar output. 2 per unit at 260 points, very fast, can retreat and charge (more DPs cause Godseekers + more objective control), battleline in Godseekers, and that wonderful 6" range activation/pile-in. Better yet, how about 3 Bladebringers on Exalted seeker chariots and a beefed out Seeker Cavalcade with Seeker chariots?

3 Bladebringers on exalted chariot, 2 x 5 slickblade seekers, 3 x 2 seeker chariots comes in at 1930, 106 wounds (most on 4+ save). Leaves a bit of room for another CP, bound spells, or some cheap backline unit to keep back objectives clear. 

[TimeToWaste85]

14 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

Seeker chariots in a Seeker Cavalcade battalion in Godseekers could be an interesting variant with similar output. 2 per unit at 260 points, very fast, can retreat and charge (more DPs cause Godseekers + more objective control), battleline in Godseekers, and that wonderful 6" range activation/pile-in. Better yet, how about 3 Bladebringers on Exalted seeker chariots and a beefed out Seeker Cavalcade with Seeker chariots?

3 Bladebringers on exalted chariot, 2 x 5 slickblade seekers, 3 x 2 seeker chariots comes in at 1930, 106 wounds (most on 4+ save). Leaves a bit of room for another CP, bound spells, or some cheap backline unit to keep back objectives clear. 

So I legitimately own all the models required to do this. 😂