AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[DoctorPerils]

So I've only just started building my army (got shadow and pain, a KoS, and a box of slickblades on their way). However I'm waiting for the FAQ to drop before rounding out my list and buying any more.

Any ideas about when it might drop?

[Enoby]

35 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

Speaking of allies, what about that named Mega-Gargant mercenary? Provided he doesn't get focused down immediately, he'd probably be a good source of depravity, and would be able to operate completely independently. All those Rend -2/-3 attacks would definitely be put to good use in our faction. 

I think a megagargant could actually be pretty interesting for us as they're a decent beatstick with a lot of wounds. However they're not great at capturing objectives; might be worth trying anyway as they'll stick around for a while and act as a good distraction carnifex.

15 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

So I've only just started building my army (got shadow and pain, a KoS, and a box of slickblades on their way). However I'm waiting for the FAQ to drop before rounding out my list and buying any more.

Any ideas about when it might drop?

I think the idea was to have a month between the book and FAQ, but I reckon it could end up being a bit longer due to covid delays.  

[Enoby]

Finished my Shardspeaker, who has yet to successful cast a spell or use her ability in 6 attempts  

[Overread]

1 hour ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Hellstriders I just don't understand why GW thought (even now they generate depravity) that they warranted a 50% increase in their points cost. For 50 more points you literally get double the wounds on a more powerful platform, yes the Seekers aren't battleline but that's neither here nor there for the internal balance of these units. 

My gut feeling is that GW slapped a general point in increase on mostly everything to bring it up so that the army is essentially a bit over-costed on points. With the intention that it will balance out by summoning in units. It feels worse also because we've also lost full unit discounts, which is a good thing overall as it will steadily roll out in new Battletomes and will encourage more variety when choosing unit sizes. Sure full units still survive longer and hit harder, but now you're not punished in points by taking more smaller units to break up your army for different tactical options. 

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

My gut feeling is that GW slapped a general point in increase on mostly everything to bring it up so that the army is essentially a bit over-costed on points. With the intention that it will balance out by summoning in units. It feels worse also because we've also lost full unit discounts, which is a good thing overall as it will steadily roll out in new Battletomes and will encourage more variety when choosing unit sizes. Sure full units still survive longer and hit harder, but now you're not punished in points by taking more smaller units to break up your army for different tactical options. 

That doesn't make much sense to me. I had initially considered this a possibility, but summoning is already self-limited, so it wouldn't make sense to overprice the entire book for it. I mean, it's max 1 summon per turn, and pretty much impossible to do turn 1. Then you have to properly farm it by doing tons of wounds but never finishing off enemy units, which can be very counterproductive. Even more important StD units still create DPs and ignore this supposed tax.

Long story short, I don't think this theory makes sense, same as the idea I've heard around that these costs somehow balance "cheap heroes" (where are they hiding in the book?).

I think the simplest explanations work best here. Either:

• The new costs show their intention for AoS 3.0 to have a smaller board and higher costs across the entire game, like 40k's 9th. This would be supported or "dismissed" by the new stuff for LRL.
• The GW team simply dropped the ball incredibly hard and read the book's strengths completely wrong, designing a half-disjointed mess of grossly overcosted units.

[azdimy]

1 hour ago, Gistradagis said:

That doesn't make much sense to me. I had initially considered this a possibility, but summoning is already self-limited, so it wouldn't make sense to overprice the entire book for it. I mean, it's max 1 summon per turn, and pretty much impossible to do turn 1. Then you have to properly farm it by doing tons of wounds but never finishing off enemy units, which can be very counterproductive. Even more important StD units still create DPs and ignore this supposed tax.

Long story short, I don't think this theory makes sense, same as the idea I've heard around that these costs somehow balance "cheap heroes" (where are they hiding in the book?).

I think the simplest explanations work best here. Either:

• The new costs show their intention for AoS 3.0 to have a smaller board and higher costs across the entire game, like 40k's 9th. This would be supported or "dismissed" by the new stuff for LRL.
• The GW team simply dropped the ball incredibly hard and read the book's strengths completely wrong, designing a half-disjointed mess of grossly overcosted units.

Jervis explained in a recent white dwarf article how the point calculator they use to point units work from a 10 thousand foot view and he specifically emphasized on summoning allegiance abilities weighing on units points from such battletome. Yes, all this pricing nonsense is because we have access to summoning. They more than likely didn t take into account how our summoning is much more restricted than it used to however. Oh well!

[umpac]

4 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Hellstriders I just don't understand why GW thought (even now they generate depravity) that they warranted a 50% increase in their points cost. For 50 more points you literally get double the wounds on a more powerful platform, yes the Seekers aren't battleline but that's neither here nor there for the internal balance of these units. 

Yeah they were only played as battleline tax in Cavalcade to get drops down and fit into Sylleske in the last book. They were overpriced at their old cost and were only taken because subfactions and BL demands. They are slightly better now I guess but it doesn't even remotely justify the points hike. It stands out even amoung many other baffling point costs.

[Gistradagis]

12 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Jervis explained in a recent white dwarf article how the point calculator they use to point units work from a 10 thousand foot view and he specifically emphasized on summoning allegiance abilities weighing on units points from such battletome. Yes, all this pricing nonsense is because we have access to summoning. They more than likely didn t take into account how our summoning is much more restricted than it used to however. Oh well!

Well that saddens me. Although I guess it somewhat still falls in option number 2, GW dropping the ball at overestimating the book's strengths couples with no real synergy added with the new units.

[Enoby]

45 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Jervis explained in a recent white dwarf article how the point calculator they use to point units work from a 10 thousand foot view and he specifically emphasized on summoning allegiance abilities weighing on units points from such battletome. Yes, all this pricing nonsense is because we have access to summoning. They more than likely didn t take into account how our summoning is much more restricted than it used to however. Oh well!

It's a shame, but I reckon it was because when the book was written, our summoning was still thought of as this massive gamebreaking thing so they overcompensated the nerf (making it weaker at OPT and increasing points). Whatever the reason, it was poorly thought out as allies and S2D/BoC remain the same price. They can't successfully nerf summoning by increasing the points of some models available to the faction. 

If they wanted people to pay for summoning, just make the ability to summon cost like 150 points (random cost). If you take it, you begin 150 points down but can recoup easily. If you don't take it, you start in a stronger position.

[AngryPanda]

4 hours ago, azdimy said:

Jervis explained in a recent white dwarf article how the point calculator they use to point units work from a 10 thousand foot view and he specifically emphasized on summoning allegiance abilities weighing on units points from such battletome. Yes, all this pricing nonsense is because we have access to summoning. They more than likely didn t take into account how our summoning is much more restricted than it used to however. Oh well!

In that case, let’s hope we get those point reductions! I’m writing an email to them tonight with some feedback and suggestions on how to better balance the book. 
 

Summoning in the book feels like more of a “utility” because it’s only allowed once per turn, which I like a lot because it adds strategy to our play style. If I’m playing against a caster heavy list, I’ll have the option to summon an Infernal Enrapturess, or if I’m going against multi-wound units I can summon in some fiends. Certain builds will be created around the prospect of generating DP as fast as possible, but being able only summon once a turn isn’t going to break the game. The point reduction is going to put us into a much better place, assuming that GW receives and listens to  the feedback.  
 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by AngryPanda

[Twisted Firaun]

Hello, long time lurker and recent convert looking for some advice. I’m working on a fluff based army, the basic lore is that Slaanesh is making a move against Nagash in order to break one of their chains that’s based around ending undying perfection(something Slaanesh would naturally be against). Realizing that it can refer to vampires and/or the bonereapers, Slaanesh searched the void for a soul who would not rest until all of Nagash’s minions where slain and found Khalida. Slaanesh then warped Khalida’s mind and through subtle influences  bound a contorted epitome to keep her in check and let her loose in Ghur. Khalida believes she is serving Asaph, and that the army of depraved mortals are brave warriors from her long dead city of Lybaras. Currently Khalida is looking for signs of Hrunspuul, a god beast said to be linked to the soulblight curse and raiding the bone tithe nexuses of The Ivory Host legion. Picture of the list below. Any suggestions?

Edited March 11, 2021 by Loyal Son of Khemri

[Fyrenn]

2 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Hello, long time lurker and recent convert looking for some advice. I’m working on a fluff based army, the basic lore is that Slaanesh is making a move against Nagash in order to break one of their chains that’s based around ending undying perfection(something Slaanesh would naturally be against). Realizing that it can refer to vampires and/or the bonereapers, Slaanesh searched the void for a soul who would not rest until all of Nagash’s minions where slain and found Khalida. Slaanesh then warped Khalida’s mind and through subtle influences  bound a contorted epitome to keep her in check and let her loose in Ghur. Khalida believes she is serving Asaph, and that the army of depraved mortals are brave warriors from her long dead city of Lybaras. Currently Asaph is looking for signs of Hrunspuul, a god beast said to be linked to the soulblight curse and raiding the bone tithe nexuses of The Ivory Host legion. Picture of the list below. Any suggestions?

I can't tell you much about the list, but I love the story - Khalida was almost my favorite, and this opens to a lot of really cool narrative possibilities.  It would be a great 'campaign' concept, but i'd probably use AoA to make her...  

I do think she serves the almost arabyesque style very well. she always seemed to be about finesse, speed, archers, etc.

 

 

[Twisted Firaun]

8 minutes ago, Fyrenn said:

I can't tell you much about the list, but I love the story - Khalida was almost my favorite, and this opens to a lot of really cool narrative possibilities.  It would be a great 'campaign' concept, but i'd probably use AoA to make her...  

I do think she serves the almost arabyesque style very well. she always seemed to be about finesse, speed, archers, etc.

 

 

Thanks for your input, model wise I’m waiting for the soulblight vampire lord model to drop, then I’m gonna swap the head for one of the Escher death maidens and give her the myrmidesh leader’s shield. I’m also toying with the idea of putting her on that one DoK endless spell and making her a daemon princess.

[CeleFAZE]

3 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Hello, long time lurker and recent convert looking for some advice. I’m working on a fluff based army, the basic lore is that Slaanesh is making a move against Nagash in order to break one of their chains that’s based around ending undying perfection(something Slaanesh would naturally be against). Realizing that it can refer to vampires and/or the bonereapers, Slaanesh searched the void for a soul who would not rest until all of Nagash’s minions where slain and found Khalida. Slaanesh then warped Khalida’s mind and through subtle influences  bound a contorted epitome to keep her in check and let her loose in Ghur. Khalida believes she is serving Asaph, and that the army of depraved mortals are brave warriors from her long dead city of Lybaras. Currently Khalida is looking for signs of Hrunspuul, a god beast said to be linked to the soulblight curse and raiding the bone tithe nexuses of The Ivory Host legion. Picture of the list below. Any suggestions?

I approve of this combination of my two favorite armies. Slaanesh with a sort of neo-Egyptian vibe is exactly what I'd love to see on the table.

[Twisted Firaun]

45 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I approve of this combination of my two favorite armies. Slaanesh with a sort of neo-Egyptian vibe is exactly what I'd love to see on the table.

If you like that I'm thinking of converting a custom war stomper mega-gargant by using the sphinx part of a necrosphinx and Morathi.

[LeonBox]

Just got a Mindstealer Sphiranx and am looking forward to some utterly implausible Oldhammer-style fearbomb attempts with -2 bravery from the Sphiranx, -2 from Mask of Spiteful Beauty, Craving Stare and the full suite of Slaanesh bravery spells. Will it work? Not as long as command points exist, but it'll be a laugh to try anyway. 

[TheArborealWalrus]

9 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Any suggestions?

1: I love your army idea.  I also had a very similar concept for my army in the form of a snake cult. I unfortunately don't know much about Khalida and thus can't say much on expanding her theme. Uncertain how far you want to go with the old school undead constructs. I feel like they won't mesh well with the more modern slaanesh stuff. Maybe liberators + tomb guard for the twin souls? Maybe make the exalted seekers as constructs or perhaps as smaller chariots? Some headdresses and the like on the blissbarbs? ... That's what I got off the top of my head. We shall follow your progress with great interest.

2: Since you're not going for a competitive army you can do whatever.  I feel like you're missing a mass of revelers/worshipers. I'd say daemonettes or marauders depending on your preference. (obviously don't use the old 90's marauder sculpts) If you're sticking to the archers theme then perhaps more blissbarbs? A smaller monster from StD might be a good choice for a fun conversion instead. A slaughterbrute/mutalith or a formoroid perhaps? Interesting possibilities either way.

Welcome aboard the pleasure and pain bus! (although I'm also pretty new myself)

Edited March 12, 2021 by TheArborealWalrus

[CeleFAZE]

2 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Just got a Mindstealer Sphiranx and am looking forward to some utterly implausible Oldhammer-style fearbomb attempts with -2 bravery from the Sphiranx, -2 from Mask of Spiteful Beauty, Craving Stare and the full suite of Slaanesh bravery spells. Will it work? Not as long as command points exist, but it'll be a laugh to try anyway. 

You can always get soulslice shards into the list to give you a nuke that can basically deal close to 2d6 mortals per cast if stacked with your other bravery bombs. Also, for non-ossiarch opponents you can utilize Syll'Esske's and the Keeper Lore's spells that shut off the use of CA's. It requires a lot of moving parts, but the payoff would be pretty devastating if successful.

[LeonBox]

18 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

You can always get soulslice shards into the list to give you a nuke that can basically deal close to 2d6 mortals per cast if stacked with your other bravery bombs. Also, for non-ossiarch opponents you can utilize Syll'Esske's and the Keeper Lore's spells that shut off the use of CA's. It requires a lot of moving parts, but the payoff would be pretty devastating if successful.

Absolutely, soulslice will be great in this list if it goes off. And I forgot about the CA-denying spells, great idea! One of my regular opponents is Idoneth and their one real "weakness" is their bravery scores. Soulslice going off on a -4 bravery turtle would be devastating. 

[CeleFAZE]

Just now, LeonBox said:

Absolutely, soulslice will be great in this list if it goes off. And I forgot about the CA-denying spells, great idea! One of my regular opponents is Idoneth and their one real "weakness" is their bravery scores. Soulslice going off on a -4 bravery turtle would be devastating. 

Don't forget dreadful visage, horrorghast and ravening direflock (from an allied brayshaman). With those added you can get up to -9 bravery.

[LeonBox]

29 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Don't forget dreadful visage, horrorghast and ravening direflock (from an allied brayshaman). With those added you can get up to -9 bravery.

Dreadful Visage actually isn't a bad idea for a minor buff to our terrible mortal bravery either, now that you mention it. Here's hoping they make more out of bravery in 3.0 -- we have all these tools to manipulate it, but a simple CP circumvents almost all of it! 

[Hendar88]

Hi All,

Thought I would jump in on Slaanesh as I love the new models. I was toying with the idea of the list below. Not sure how effective it would be but would be good to get some feedback. I do wonder if I should drop the battalion and use the points elsewhere.

 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
 - Mortal Realm: Chamon
 - Host: Godseekers Host
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Spell: Slothful Stupor
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
UNITS
20 x Daemonettes (220)
20 x Daemonettes (220)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
BATTALIONS
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Edited March 12, 2021 by Hendar88

[TimeToWaste85]

8 hours ago, Hendar88 said:

Hi All,

Thought I would jump in on Slaanesh as I love the new models. I was toying with the idea of the list below. Not sure how effective it would be but would be good to get some feedback. I do wonder if I should drop the battalion and use the points elsewhere.

 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
 - Mortal Realm: Chamon
 - Host: Godseekers Host
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Spell: Slothful Stupor
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
UNITS
20 x Daemonettes (220)
20 x Daemonettes (220)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
BATTALIONS
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Most will tell you units of 20 daemonettes are worthless; as soon as a single one dies, you lose the bonus exploding 6. Do either 10s or 30s. Also, battalion for only 2 units of shooting seekers is also pointless; their gift is in shooting, you’re using a combat based battalion. 

[Enoby]

9 hours ago, Hendar88 said:

Hi All,

Thought I would jump in on Slaanesh as I love the new models. I was toying with the idea of the list below. Not sure how effective it would be but would be good to get some feedback. I do wonder if I should drop the battalion and use the points elsewhere.

 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
 - Mortal Realm: Chamon
 - Host: Godseekers Host
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Spell: Slothful Stupor
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
UNITS
20 x Daemonettes (220)
20 x Daemonettes (220)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (180)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
BATTALIONS
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

I think you have an interesting start to the list, but I agree with Time that the daemonettes in 20s may bite you. I'd recommend one 30 and one 10 instead. Blissbarb archers are a bit pricey and you could save cost by either changing them into chaos warriors and using the saved 70 points to upgrade your blissbarb seekers into slickblades (go better in the battalion imo), or swap out the keeper and the epitome for Glutos (summoning in the keeper later and using Glutos for the battleshock immunity spell), but saving 160 points to upgrade your blissbarb seekers again and leaving you with 120 points for maybe some chaos warriors for more objective chaff or a viceleader to follow Glutos around and heal him occasionally. 

To be more inkeeping with your list, the first of those changes is probably the easiest one. I recommend Glutos over a keeper as he's a lot tougher, has a +1 to cast, can cause easy battleshock immunity, is unlikely to be shot to death/being crippled first turn and he does higher damage than a keeper. If you're just bringing a keeper to make something pile in twice, it's usually better to just take two of the unit. I'd personally recommend just summoning in a Keeper turn 2 as it's CA is in the combat phase anyway.

Hope this helps

[Hendar88]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I think you have an interesting start to the list, but I agree with Time that the daemonettes in 20s may bite you. I'd recommend one 30 and one 10 instead. Blissbarb archers are a bit pricey and you could save cost by either changing them into chaos warriors and using the saved 70 points to upgrade your blissbarb seekers into slickblades (go better in the battalion imo), or swap out the keeper and the epitome for Glutos (summoning in the keeper later and using Glutos for the battleshock immunity spell), but saving 160 points to upgrade your blissbarb seekers again and leaving you with 120 points for maybe some chaos warriors for more objective chaff or a viceleader to follow Glutos around and heal him occasionally. 

To be more inkeeping with your list, the first of those changes is probably the easiest one. I recommend Glutos over a keeper as he's a lot tougher, has a +1 to cast, can cause easy battleshock immunity, is unlikely to be shot to death/being crippled first turn and he does higher damage than a keeper. If you're just bringing a keeper to make something pile in twice, it's usually better to just take two of the unit. I'd personally recommend just summoning in a Keeper turn 2 as it's CA is in the combat phase anyway.

Hope this helps

Thanks for taking the time to have a look and offer some feedback. I have found it quite difficult making a list for this army.  I do favour the mortals somewhat but the points seem to be all over the place when I have tried making some lists. My original purchase was inspired by the below from goonhammer review;

Allegiance: Slaanesh
 - Mortal Realm: Chamon
 - Host: Godseekers Host
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Spell: Slothful Stupor
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
UNITS
20 x Daemonettes (220)
10 x Daemonettes (110)
10 x Daemonettes (110)
BATTALIONS
Supreme Sybarites (150)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Mesmerising Mirror (60)

Glutos is definitely on the cards so maybe I would be better of with running this list with minor tweaks maybe running 3x10 Daemonettes and dropping the mirrors and running 1x Blissbard seekers for a bit of range. could also drop the Keeper and Summon as you suggested but I feel like i wouldn't get the most out of the battalion and without it the drops would be fairly high. seems whatever you run the army is pretty squishy on the whole. In terms of performance do you think this list would out perform my original one (even with suggested changes)?

Thanks again to everyone that has offered feedback

Edited March 12, 2021 by Hendar88