AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Mandollies]

I just thought Id post with some results of a local tournament I attended yesterday with about 20 odd players (3 rounds and 2K)

 

Below is the list I took.

 

I went undefeated amassing 5800 Victory Points out of 6000pts

 

I faced in order; Tzeentch Changehost with Flamers; Luminith with Teclis & The Big Stone Cow; and Luminith with Teclis; both Lumineth armies were the +1 to Cast and Deny for the first spell.

 

I won the first two games; but because I had taken a silly list my 3rd round Opponent wanted a 10/10 draw so didnt really try that game; well until the 5th round and he thought he could get the win and so the casual game where the results didnt matter turned into a battle for first place (I say this because I wasnt playing to win; so could have summoned in turn 4 to win; instead I summoned on turn 5 to draw the game - just to ****** off my opponent who reneged on the deal then wiped him off the table just to put some salt into the wound )

 

I spent most of Friday night trying to figure out what to take; unfortunately I only had Glutos and 15 Slickblades put together. It got to 12:30 on Saturday morning where I just took this joke of a list and wasnt sure it could win a single game. Other than the final game on the final turn did I summon FYI.

 

First round (Total Conquest) was against Changehost and a very similar list that I ran at last years Cancon where I came 13th out of 220 or so (undefeated till the last round where I crunbled to Petrifex OBR - and yes it was the list that catapulted me that high :P). 12 flamers; exalted flamer, Lord of Change, 20 Pinks and some brimstones with a Fatemaster. I got the Masque and a unit of Chaos Warriors Ambushing)

 

My opponent took the first turn; got Archaon down to 9 Wounds from shooting and so charged my entire block huddled by Glutos for the -1 To it with 20 Pinks and no 1's in the Destiny Dice pool. At the end of his turn; I had taken 1 or 2 wounds across various units but had him down to 3 Brimstones. Glutos gave his Command ability that then got him back up to full wounds and then won the double to basically wipe out his flamer block and Lord of Change with a double charge from Archaon and Glutos while the rest of the battleline just reached out and gained the other objectives. I wiped him out in Turn 3 and held all the objectives. The Masque rolled quite a few 6's on the GW Slaanesh dice to get 11 Wounds on the Changeling with rerolls on the hits and wounds (I either got lucky all event or those dice may not be evenly weighted... :/)

 

2nd Round (Shifting Objectives) was against the Lumineth with the Cow and I took first turn after Ambushing again the Masque and a unit of Chaos Warriors) and got Archaon fully buffed with the Chaos Sorcerer and found out the Fane is now 6" and not 1" iirc was the range of doing the Sacrifice from the previous tome. Archaon took a mortal from the Fane but bounced it back (take that inanimate terrain piece! However thanks for the +1 to Hit!) I took the two objectives including the primary (and pretty much held it for the entire game). My opponent had zoned me out with the ambushing units; but my plan for the Masque and Chaos Warriors was always to take a side objective.

 

He wisely did the 2 Command Points spell (as well as a few other spells including the bubble of 18" damage which didnt really do to much apart from give me Depravity) and so when he charged the bull in I couldnt fight a second time after using the Command Points I had amassed in my turn. I had used them up to get +1 Save to Archaon in the Combat and the Shooting phases from Lurid Haze (yes; this army generates Command Points in a crazy amount.) With the rerolls of the saves on Archaon and a 2+ save; I survived with 8 wounds but got the Bull down to 1 or 2 Wounds That said I did do a massive amount of damage.

 

My next Turn; I had enough Command Points to do Glutos Command Trait and the Fight Twice on Archaon. After the Nurgle Head on Archaon killed the Bull in the Hero Phase and getting another +1 to hit on Archaon from the fane as well as the Spear block, I then double charged the Sentinal & Warden Blocks making sure to clip the Stone mage that was nearby with Archaon. I activated Glutos to get down the numbers of the Spear Elves then used Archaon to do the Three Heads on the Stone Mage and the rest of the attacks overkilling the Sentinals and healing Archaon back up to full health.

 

Archaon then did a second activation that wiped out the Archers. My opponent then tried to cast the Double Movement spell on himself to get out of Dodge but Glutos managed to stop that and so with Ethereal active he charged in Archaon and hoped that he could pin him in place. He had forgotten to cast the Double Command point spell and so Archaon was easily able to weather the storm and get some wounds through.

 

In my turn; I charged Glutos over to the Wardens and Sentinals that were giving my warriors trouble after the Masque had died (who at least taken down about 70% of the squad out by herself.) Glutos wiped out the unit and iirc Archaon got off Slayer of Kings on Teclis.

 

The third round (Blades Edge) was against a mate of mine who was playing Lumineth with Teclis; a Cathallar, the Endless Spell that increases the ability to cast (with the subfaction that gives +1 on the first Cast/Dispell from that unit) a unit of Dawnriders and iirc 3 units of Archers and Spears. At the start of the game; my mate suggested a 10-10 draw; as I wasnt playing for sheep stations I was fine with it - I mean I wasnt confident that the army would let alone win 1 game let alone 2 or 3.

 

Anyways; we are playing a casual game and Im not bothering to use my depravity to summon units and take unclaimed objectives (so the choices I made were not at all competitive and so I wont go into detail); until the start of his 5th turn (I was yet to have my fifth) when the TO came up and asked that he wouldn't want a draw as it will ****** up the results too much. My mate happily said that it was fine as he was about to win the game anyway and he didnt want a draw anyways. Needless to say I was abit pissed mainly because I was happy not to be on the podium as it would open up the field and give others a feel good experience.

 

As a result I summoned a 30 man unit onto an Objective to ensure I drew the game (my first time for the entire event.) To add Salt to the wound or my mate to try to win the game wen we had settled on a draw; I wiped out his army on my last turn; despite Teclis being Ethereal; Archaon took him out the old fashioned way (albeit with a double activation :P)

 

It turns out; that with the Draw and the amount of VPs that I had scored (5800 out of 6000) I had come 2nd (first was Legions of Nagash with the big man himself.) and third was yet more Lumineth.

 

MVP Was Archaon and Glutos Tag team - Archaon with his Bravery Debuff helps Dark Delusions go off; Glutos's Command Ability allowed Archaon to stay alive with pretty much full health each game; the Chaos Lord I used was a Finecast Sigvald (I did try to get the new model in the army but too pricey) and was easy to hide - and so survive (esp with a -2 To Hit in Shooting near Chaos Warriors.)

 

With the Chaos lord running due to a excess of Command Points; Glutos with his movement; Archaon was very easy to keep in range of all the buffs (strangely enough the Chaos Sorcerer was the first to die; for some reason people dont like a dude that allows Archaon to reroll Hits, Wounds & Saves

 

Speaking of Command Points; this army is abit crazy in its generation. 1 from the turn, 1 from Archaon, 1 most of the time from the Battalion and the Masque would always like to ambush near Commanding Terrain - going from 1 to 5 Command Points in a turn is abit Crazy.

 

A Mate did take the rod of misrule at the event (he took blisbarb archers and a 15 man Chaos Warrior blob; unfortunately I dont think he did too well) but rolled a 1 alot of the times and so gave the opponent a Command Point more often than should be average.

 

The +1 To Hit from the Icon of Infinite Excess - despite my reservations of a one use item was really good to ensure that with either fane or Dark Delusions; he will always get +1 to hit against units with a -1 To Hit or to at least negate negative modifiers.

 

Having Dorgar's 3 Heads hit on 2's is so important to ensure you deal out the damage or get overkill for Wound regeneration.

 

Palisades were pretty much useless what with facing a Lord of Change and 2 Teclis'; but thinking about it; a Burning Head could be useful as rerolling 1's could be extreamly useful for Archaon.

 

I did have a few people complain about my list as they dont believe Archaon should have the Hedonites keyword as he is Overpowered when paired with Glutos - despite those 2 models costing 1200pts alone). It was kind of telling; that out of the book I did only use 2 units (The Masque and Glutos.)

 

The Masque is a very good blender of light units; just make sure you dont charge her; and instead pile-in only when you want her to blend. Remember her Hit/Wounds reroll ability as it cost me her when I failed to reroll when against my 2nd round archers allowing more of them to stay alive to shoot her to death.

 

Hope this long Tourny report is of use to people

 

Lurid Haze 2000pts

Drops Min: 4 Max 8

Turn 0 Command Points: 1

 

ENDLESS SPELL: Prismatic Palisades (30)

 

BATTALION: Supreme Sybarites (150)

 

Glutos (400)

SPELL: DARK DELUSIONS: Casting Value: 4+

 

Archaon (800)

SPELL: BORN OF DAMNATION: Casting Value: 4+

 

Chaos Lord (110) GENERAL

COMMAND TRAIT Feverish Anticipation:

ARTEFACT: Icon of Infinite Excess:

 

Chaos Sorcerer (110)

SPELL: DARK DELUSIONS: Casting Value: 4+

ARTEFACT: Oil of Exultation

 

The Masque (130) GENERAL

 

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

 

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

 

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

[Gistradagis]

5 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

For those who have been getting some games in , Is Glutos looking like a "must have" for the army or can another Keeper or syl eske take on the leader roll okay and make due without the benefits that Glutos offers?

Pretty much, yes. If you're playing pure Hedonites (and usually even if you aren't), he's one of the only reasons your army will hold on long enough to properly get victory points and DPs. Keepers now pretty much suck unless summoned, and they offer little advantage/synergy, so they are a bad replacement (whether you manage to make them work as a beatstick is another matter entirely). Syl'Eske has some more synergy, but it's a bit odd and more circumstantial.

Glutos is amazing because he supports you in every single way you need. Your low bravery is aided with his +1 to bravery within 6 (and later on no bs tests), his 2 casts 2 unbinds with natural +1 mean he's a reliable caster (even though the mortal lore kinda sucks), and his melee profile can easily crush entire units as long as you don't get too arrogant with him. Last but definitely not least, his -1 to hit within 12" is just plain busted. He's also not a monster, so Look Out Sir means he's not all that easy to kill, even from outside the 12".

Put simply, Glutos is one of the very few units in our book who's pretty much appropriately pointed, and is great both in offence and defence.

[Enoby]

16 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

I agree, and I am careful to assume that we will see point reductions because even though they’re deserved, that does not mean that they are guaranteed, which is why I believe it is wise to email GW if the same sentiment is shared. With BoC, Sylvaneth, and NH, the changes that need to be made are more fundamental to their design, and not just to point costs.  
 

With HoS, I feel we also have the same problem (issue in our design), as there is little synergy within the book. Our battalions are somewhat strange, and we don’t have many generic mortal heroes, such as a decent General. The Lord of Pain and Shardspeaker are more akin to a lieutenant then the leaders of an army. If we were to get another release far ahead in the future (either through an expansion/campaign book or a new battletome), I hope to see heroes that would fill this role and increase synergy capabilities, or new battalions and rules that would do the same.

The biggest controversy right now is the points, and I want to emphasize that if the community wants change, this needs to be voice in a polite and constructive means via email or other healthy avenues.

Yeah, you're definitely right to take this approach. We do have some design issues, but compared to BoC (rubbish warscrolls that are already cheap), Sylvaneth (an allegiance ability that hardly works due to scenery rules), and  Nighthaunt (unreliable allegiance abilities that are worse than LoN) we have it good, because the main issue is points and the other issues are more annoyances than something that stops us being good. 

I'm personally going to make my email focus on that, and then have a bit of an aside for later books (including rules expansions). If all of our main focus is on points, we have a much higher chance of getting it fixed. 

2 hours ago, Mandollies said:

*tournament write up*

 

 

Thanks for the write up! It was really interesting to read, and good to know we stand a good chance competitively even when we may not be trying. Did you feel like this list was missing anything, or that a particular unit wasn't pulling their weight?

13 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Pretty much, yes. If you're playing pure Hedonites (and usually even if you aren't), he's one of the only reasons your army will hold on long enough to properly get victory points and DPs. Keepers now pretty much suck unless summoned, and they offer little advantage/synergy, so they are a bad replacement (whether you manage to make them work as a beatstick is another matter entirely). Syl'Eske has some more synergy, but it's a bit odd and more circumstantial.

Glutos is amazing because he supports you in every single way you need. Your low bravery is aided with his +1 to bravery within 6 (and later on no bs tests), his 2 casts 2 unbinds with natural +1 mean he's a reliable caster (even though the mortal lore kinda sucks), and his melee profile can easily crush entire units as long as you don't get too arrogant with him. Last but definitely not least, his -1 to hit within 12" is just plain busted. He's also not a monster, so Look Out Sir means he's not all that easy to kill, even from outside the 12".

Put simply, Glutos is one of the very few units in our book who's pretty much appropriately pointed, and is great both in offence and defence.

It's really weird - I agree with you that he's fantastic (maybe not a must take but I'd nearly always take him), but I've read others saying he's a waste of points or that he just toes the line of 'worth it'. It feels like I'm reading a different scroll to them

[Sorrow]

39 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Pretty much, yes. If you're playing pure Hedonites (and usually even if you aren't), he's one of the only reasons your army will hold on long enough to properly get victory points and DPs. Keepers now pretty much suck unless summoned, and they offer little advantage/synergy, so they are a bad replacement (whether you manage to make them work as a beatstick is another matter entirely). Syl'Eske has some more synergy, but it's a bit odd and more circumstantial.

Glutos is amazing because he supports you in every single way you need. Your low bravery is aided with his +1 to bravery within 6 (and later on no bs tests), his 2 casts 2 unbinds with natural +1 mean he's a reliable caster (even though the mortal lore kinda sucks), and his melee profile can easily crush entire units as long as you don't get too arrogant with him. Last but definitely not least, his -1 to hit within 12" is just plain busted. He's also not a monster, so Look Out Sir means he's not all that easy to kill, even from outside the 12".

Put simply, Glutos is one of the very few units in our book who's pretty much appropriately pointed, and is great both in offence and defence.

Glutos and Slickblades are the only two units from our mortal part of Hedonites that are spot on regarding their cost.

[Sorrow]

Congratulations on your victories @Mandollies!

That being said, I think it is a good indicator of the state of new Hedonites, that a lot of people are going Slaves to Darkness plus Glutos. 

 

[Gistradagis]

26 minutes ago, Enoby said:

It's really weird - I agree with you that he's fantastic (maybe not a must take but I'd nearly always take him), but I've read others saying he's a waste of points or that he just toes the line of 'worth it'. It feels like I'm reading a different scroll to them

I get the feeling there are many people misplaying Glutos, and consequently feeling like he's not really worth it.

First of all, he's an insane ally. There is a reason we're seeing all these Archaon + Glutos lists, usually in Tzeentch. He's sometimes seen in Maggotkin, too (no Archaon though).

Second, he's the best caster in our entire book, even if the mortal lore kinda sucks. Still useful for generic spells, realm spells, endless spells, and unbinds.

Third, you want him in the thick of it asap. Being around the front line means that his -1 to hit aura will hit soooo many units. This, with his 18 wounds, 3+ save with a 5+++, and a melee profile that can easily spike and wipe a unit/hero. I bring this because I've seen many people just leave Glutos in the backline and basically pay 400 points for a -1 to hit aura and occasional magic, which would explain the problems.

He's definitely a bit on the line when it comes to points (what a surprise, eh?); appropriately costed, but could just as easily be, say, 360 or 380. In his case, I am convinced we're probably paying an ally tax due to how good he can be in other armies.

[zombiepiratexxx]

TBF I think this book can do work, it's just hard to do so when stuff is so massively overcosted. Daemonettes are our cheapest battleline but to take them in survivable numbers they start getting pricey and are more easily summoned. Why Striders had to go up 40-50% for no discernible change other than they can generate Depravity is kind of bonkers. And, as others have said, only summoning one unit a turn now kind of balances it all out. I'm going to stick with it, I'm a casual after all and don't do tournaments so playing a middle-ground book isn't going to be bad for me, just going to cost me a lot of £££s to get all the new Mortal stuff leaving most of my Daemons to be summons only. 

[Nasrod]

Wishlist/hopes for balance:

 

Gluttos + 20

Exalted Seekers, both variants, +10

Sigvald, - 10

Keeper and Shalaxi, - 20

Shardspeaker, - 10

Lord of Pain, - 10

Infernal Enrapturess, - 10, generates 1 free DP per turn

Contorted Epitome, - 20

Syll'esske, Now unlock Twinsouls Battleline as General

Twinsouls, - 20

Painbringers, - 20

Fiends, -10 3/9 unit size new cost 170/480

Daemonettes, unit size new cost 10/30 110/300

Hellstriders, -10 unit size new cost 5/20, 130/480

Seekers - 10

 

--

Also just want to add, shockingly the Mindstealer Sphiranx has done major work for me. The threat of fight last is something people assume Slaanesh no longer has access to. Double turning with this thing alive and next to Glutos is just disgusting. At 10 wounds and 100 points it isn't horrible for wound effeciency either. Both of my opponents have expressed frustration at how much is required to shoot it off the table in comparison to other support pieces that are usually 6 wounds and similarly priced. 

[Gistradagis]

13 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

Wishlist/hopes for balance:

 

Gluttos + 20

Exalted Seekers, both variants, +10

Sigvald, - 10

Keeper and Shalaxi, - 20

Shardspeaker, - 10

Lord of Pain, - 10

Infernal Enrapturess, - 10, generates 1 free DP per turn

Contorted Epitome, - 20

Syll'esske, Now unlock Twinsouls Battleline as General

Twinsouls, - 20

Painbringers, - 20

Fiends, -10 3/9 unit size new cost 170/480

Daemonettes, unit size new cost 10/30 110/300

Hellstriders, -10 unit size new cost 5/20, 130/480

Seekers - 10

I'll be very surprised if that's what we get, not to say disappointed. Although, with how conservative GW has been with the battletome, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if this ends up being our fate.

[Mandollies]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Thanks for the write up! It was really interesting to read, and good to know we stand a good chance competitively even when we may not be trying. Did you feel like this list was missing anything, or that a particular unit wasn't pulling their weight?

Id probably swap out Pallisades out for Burning Head; if only for the reroll 1's To Hit as I did notice I was needing that. As it was my first games with the list meant I was hoarding Command Points; when Im getting 3 or 4 a turn I should have been using them alittle more than I was (I think I ended the first game with 7 Command Points on turn 3.)

Swapping the Heal spell out of Archaon for something else may be fine as with Glutos's Command ability and the Khorne Head regenerating wounds meant I didnt really need to use it.

[azdimy]

58 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

I'll be very surprised if that's what we get, not to say disappointed. Although, with how conservative GW has been with the battletome, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if this ends up being our fate.

Let s not forget gw has now introduced 5pts increment as an option with the points of the warriors of chaos underwold warband at 125pts. That means they could be even more conservative than this wish list and it could take years for a unit to finally become reasonably pointed

[TimeToWaste85]

I think a big unit of twin-souls could be good with the Lurid Haze ability; teleport them in, charge, gives you a chance to decide how the reroll/5++ is most beneficial. 
I know it basically needs Cogs and charge re-rolls to effectively pull off; it’s not like charging in Siggy. But could be worthwhile. 

[Jaskier]

I had a local tournament yesterday (10 players, 2000 points) and I decided to run my bread and butter Invaders and try out most of the new stuff; Lord of Pain (General, Glory Hog, Icon of Infinite Excess), Shardspeaker, Sorcerer Lord (#2 General, Rod of Misrule), 10 Myrmidesh, 10 Chaos Warriors, 2x11 Blissbarb Archers, 3x5 Slickblade Seekers, Seeker Cavalcade and an extra CP. Definitely not intended to be competitive as I just wanted to get a feel of the new units and stick to an all-mortal theme. 

First game was Total Conquest against Stalliarch Lords OBR with Katakros, Arkhan and 2 Catapults. Had a major win because he made me go second and I won the double turn on turn two, allowing me to surge ahead on points and wipe out nearly half his army in one go, the highlight of the turn being 5 Slickblades with no buffs managing to kill a full health Catapult in one activation. I got nearly tabled and managed to summon 30 Daemonettes and then 10 Daemonettes, only winning because I retained the turn order for most of the game. 

Second game was Scorched Earth against Idoneth with 3x3 Eels, 2 Sharks, a Turtle, Volturnos, an Eidolon and some Namarti. I made him go first as he couldn't really do much to me, whereas my first turn saw me wipe out two of the Eel units with two of my Slickblade units. My good start quickly fizzled out as I proceeded to lose every priority roll, rolled miserably on my saving throws, and twice couldn't make a 9" charge with a re-roll from summoned units. I got completely tabled and summoned first a Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot (who died doing nothing) and a regular Exalted Chariot (who cleared an objective then died.) Major loss. 

Third game was Blades Edge against Khorne-marked Everchosen with Archaon, 3 Varanguard and a bunch of Warriors and Knights. He made me go first and the risk of the double turn saw me play it safe, just peppering his wall of Chaos Warriors with Blissbarbs. Not much happened until turn two when I wiped out most of his Warriors and stole his objectives, moving my own Warriors and Myrmidesh into cover while guarding objectives. His prophesied double turn was nasty - I played safely enough that it wasn't as bad as it could have been - but what really did me in was poor save rolling just across the board, as everything just evaporated the moment they got looked at. Another major loss where I nearly got tabled, but this time I managed to summon a Keeper of Secrets (who failed her 9" charge with a re-roll and proceeded to get eaten by a distant Archaon when he prophesied winning the turn roll again) and a regular Exalted Chariot. 

My overall impressions are that Invaders is still probably going to be my go-to Host purely because of the CPs; my list legitimately couldn't make use of them outside of spamming Inspiring Presence, and there were points where I'd use two-three in a turn but still finish the turn with four or more spare. This is especially prevalent if you're running the new Mortals, because their Bravery...well, it's a much bigger problem then even I predicted. Having two Generals (I chose not to make the Shardspeaker one so she could sit with either of the other heroes) and a bunch of CP mostly mitigated the problem, thankfully, but if I'd run Godseekers for example I would've lost swathes of units to Battleshock even just for losing 1-2 models at a time. The Katakros list didn't help as he was stealing my free CP each turn (and my Glory Hog CP on his turn.) I'm really thinking Syll'Esske or Glutos are going to be hugely important for mortal-centric lists for their Battleshock immunity/Bravery bonuses, with Syll'Esske having the immunity from the get-go but Glutos being a better investment if you have the extra points handy.

Summoning is obviously slower, and the one unit per turn restriction kills a lot of table-crossing potential the army has; I felt it in two of my games, as I would've been able to steal objectives I otherwise couldn't. None of my summons really did much other than secure a point or two due to a lot of poor rolling on my part. The other thing is that when you're presented with a choice of just wounding a unit or finishing it off, you're usually better served finishing it off - obviously this depends on the target, but there were very few situations where I had that choice presented to me and chose to take the former option. It's tough because summoning is the core of our allegiance rules, and when the army is as fragile as it is you also lose out when your own stuff inevitably gets wiped out too; Slaves units really are looking more appealing by the day. Running all mortals meant I didn't get to use the Locus and it really stung; there are so many situations where units make long charges or just don't get too many models in range on the charge move, relying on a pile-in to get all their attacks, where a Locus can legitimately be the difference between a unit surviving mostly unscathed or getting wiped out. I know it definitely would've saved a bunch of my units throughout the day and could well have made enough of a difference to swing things around in my two losses. I don't think I can justify running an all-mortal list again without at least one daemon hero - even just the Masque, or ideally Syll'Esske - just to give me that option. 

Regarding individual units, Slickblades were the obvious stars (to the surprise of no-one) as they minced most things they touched; they also die to a stiff breeze, and their low Bravery doesn't help, so I think the Cavalcade is nigh mandatory with them just to ensure they're guaranteed to fight before any retaliation on your turn. Blissbarbs really don't do much other than eat up space and generate some Depravity here and there, and I'm thinking they're probably not worth it just for that when you could take tougher units that last longer and might get you more Depravity as the game goes on anyway. The Myrmidesh were victims of horrendous rolling; against the Idoneth and Everchosen I had them parked in a terrain piece, meaning they had a 3+ save re-rolling, but even then I just couldn't make a save for the life of me. I only tried them in one block of 10 just to have something for the Lord of Pain to buff besides the Slickblades (which he was usually out of range of) and definitely will use them in 5s from now on. My Chaos Warriors fared much better because I could actually pass saves on them; having Oracular Visions meant they retained their re-rolls even below 10 models. My heroes didn't do much other than farm and use CPs, and I forgot my Icon every game and a bunch of other things on them, but I don't think they're bad choices at all. I just didn't have much to do with them, unfortunately - forgetting to use the Icon of Infinite Excess the whole day probably didn't help matters 😄 I'll add that the Battle Rapture spell from the mortal discipline is nice, but I really missed those daemonic spells - even just the healing ones would have been nice to have. Oh well.

For my next tournament in two weeks I'm going be trying out Glutos with 6 Fiends and 2x5 Slickblades in the Seeker Cavalcade, with Warriors and other stuff to taste. I feel like Glutos' -1 to-hit aura couped with his +1 Bravery aura are going to be super important for Slaanesh lists; the only problem is that his Bravery stuff only affects Mortal Hedonites, so unless I have my Slickblades roosting around him I'm not going to be getting much use out of the Bravery stuff. I'm also strongly reconsidering filling my Battleline slots with something other than Blissbarbs as they just don't do nearly enough or survive well enough to justify that exorbitant cost, unfortunately; I could have saved 140 points if I'd just run 2x5 Warriors in their place, and while I would have lost out on some Depravity points, that's 140 points I can spend elsewhere to get them and I get two units that might actually survive a mean look. I might fit in a Keeper with the savings for the command ability and synergy with Glutos (lots of healing) but we'll see; not being able to self-buff means you lose half your combat effectiveness unless you run two of them, which a friend of mine discovered the hard way today. 

Just wanted to add, having now given the army a good run of it, I'm convinced the +1 save from the Lurid Haze command ability, on top of the ambushes (regardless if you use Sigvald/Marauders or not) are well worth the mandatory artifact and losing out on Glory Hog. The Rod of Misrule will usually give you enough CP anyway (assuming you run a battalion) and I feel like having that +1 save in particular would have made life so, so much easier for me today. I still like my default Invaders but I don't think I can ignore the allure of Lurid Haze anymore. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Jaskier

[Gistradagis]

2 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I think a big unit of twin-souls could be good with the Lurid Haze ability; teleport them in, charge, gives you a chance to decide how the reroll/5++ is most beneficial. 
I know it basically needs Cogs and charge re-rolls to effectively pull off; it’s not like charging in Siggy. But could be worthwhile. 

How so? If anything, you'd get neither because the unit wasn't in the battlefield during your hero phase, and consequently didn't get their ability off.

[Jaskier]

1 hour ago, Mandollies said:

As it was my first games with the list meant I was hoarding Command Points; when Im getting 3 or 4 a turn I should have been using them alittle more than I was (I think I ended the first game with 7 Command Points on turn 3.)

Invaders in a nutshell  The only time I've ever run out of CP with them are when I was fighting twice with 3 Keepers every turn for three straight turns! It's so nice being able to just use the generic command abilities relatively freely, and obviously having bespoke command abilities is even better. It's also amazing how many people - even other top Slaanesh players I've played against - get caught out by a Slaanesh list having near unlimited CP; Invaders just aren't that common I guess?

Just some more general thoughts, I've been comparing Glutos to other choices in the army and the Keeper came to mind. Interestingly, Glutos actually out-damages the Keeper in most cases which is especially relevant as the Keeper can't make itself fight twice anymore - the better range on the Keepers' weapons does help compensate for this a bit. Glutos is obviously a lot tougher and a better wizard, whereas the Keeper gets better spell selection and is much more mobile. As support pieces it really comes down to Glutos' command ability (which compensates for the lack of healing spells, and can be used on more than just heroes) Bravery stuff and -1 to-hit aura versus the Keepers' command ability and (improved) Locus; fight-twice is amazing, but now that we can't make enemies strike last, we don't have that natural defensive net we used to have to survive to get full use out of those two pile-ins. Understanding that key difference with the new Slaanesh - it really clicked today - makes me feel like Glutos is pretty much always going to be the better option of the two if you want a big support piece and can't afford both; that -1 to-hit bubble alone is worth the difference. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Jaskier

[TimeToWaste85]

1 hour ago, Gistradagis said:

How so? If anything, you'd get neither because the unit wasn't in the battlefield during your hero phase, and consequently didn't get their ability off.

Right. Ugh. Never mind. They blow. Lol

[Enoby]

7 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Right. Ugh. Never mind. They blow. Lol

They're not that bad - though not so great in Lurid Haze's ambush -  in fact if they came down to about 150 I think they'd make a really strong core of an army considering they can be battleline From my game and what I usually play like, I think a good strategy for them would be to use the 5++ initially, keep a LoP nearby to provide a +1 save, weather the charge and then counter attack the next turn with rr hits (either from hero phase or LoP). Their 2 damage puts in work

[TimeToWaste85]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

They're not that bad - though not so great in Lurid Haze's ambush -  in fact if they came down to about 150 I think they'd make a really strong core of an army considering they can be battleline From my game and what I usually play like, I think a good strategy for them would be to use the 5++ initially, keep a LoP nearby to provide a +1 save, weather the charge and then counter attack the next turn with rr hits (either from hero phase or LoP). Their 2 damage puts in work

Sorry, I was texting fast. They blow for why I was suggesting. I really want to play around with the book; due to personal delays, I’m only getting the book and my pile of models on Tuesday. Kinda going off AoS app and 1d4chan for now. 

[Fyrenn]

woops - wrong forum

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Fyrenn

[LeonBox]

17 hours ago, Mandollies said:

Archaon tourney list 

With Glutos'  command ability on Archaon, how were you handling the healing effect? As written it seems to indicate you can only regain excess wounds from the single attack that killed the model/unit you were fighting. 

[Drazhoath]

21 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

With Glutos'  command ability on Archaon, how were you handling the healing effect? As written it seems to indicate you can only regain excess wounds from the single attack that killed the model/unit you were fighting. 

Wounds gonna alocated when all attacks are made. So I think its the attack and not the weapon which is important.

[AngryPanda]

Archaon and Fatakros are gonna be a powerful combo at tournaments, and it’s good to see that it’s becoming prominent to a degree. Archaon is already a beast, but with the ability to heal himself and a -1 debuff bubble, it would make him Herohammer x2. Mix in summoning and cheap units to hold objectives, and it’s a dangerous list to go up against. 
 

On a side note, I really want to play a matchup with Sigvald against Gortrek, or Lady Olynder/Nighthaunt in general. It would be really satisfying to see Sigvald cut through and ignore their usual saves after the saves. 

[LeonBox]

4 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

Wounds gonna alocated when all attacks are made. So I think its the attack and not the weapon which is important.

The ability says "if an enemy unit is destroyed by an attack made by that Hedonite unit and there are wounds that remain to be allocated to that enemy unit from that attack, heal up to the same number of wounds allocated to that Hedonite unit." (Emphasis mine.) 

It seems pretty clear to me that you only get the benefit of a single attack, which limits it unless you're using a Keeper and kill something with impaling claws. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by LeonBox

[CeleFAZE]

14 hours ago, Enoby said:

They're not that bad - though not so great in Lurid Haze's ambush -  in fact if they came down to about 150 I think they'd make a really strong core of an army considering they can be battleline From my game and what I usually play like, I think a good strategy for them would be to use the 5++ initially, keep a LoP nearby to provide a +1 save, weather the charge and then counter attack the next turn with rr hits (either from hero phase or LoP). Their 2 damage puts in work

This is basically how I view them. Unless you can get a first turn charge in (with an effective threat range of 20-21" depending on host this generally not happening) it's almost always preferable to take the 5+ shrug first turn. It forces a really tough choice on your opponent: try to kill them with shooting and risk leaving some alive to generate depravity, or take a full-strength unit to the face that will be rerolling hits when they arrive. The +1 save CA isn't bad on them to go all in on tankiness for a turn, but I like it more in theory on myrmadesh, as a rerollable 3+ is such a tough nut to crack, and since the CA only works in combat it's guaranteed to work with their rerolls.

I do like the idea of using the LoP to shore up symbaresh though, allowing them to always have rerolling hits when needed is really nice. 

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, LeonBox said:

The ability says "if an enemy unit is destroyed by an attack made by that Hedonite unit and there are wounds that remain to be allocated to that enemy unit from that attack, heal up to the same number of wounds allocated to that Hedonite unit." (Emphasis mine.) 

From my understanding, the attack description has some issues with Gluttos CA:

• Making attacks doens't "kill" anything (because allocating wounds is not part of "making attacks").
• After finishing all attacks, then, you allocate wounds, that's what will kill the enemy unit. 

Imho:

1. Declare attacks.
2. Make attacks (hit, wound, save and determine damage). They are resolved one at time but it's not important because [point 3].
3. When all attacks are finished, enemy allocate wounds on their models until they are "slain", when that happens, it triggers Gluttos  CA .
4. You don't know the attack profile that killed the enemy unit, but you have a pool of wounds that can't be allocated, and that is what Gluttos CA talks about. 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Beliman
Grammar