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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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I know it has been said many times already but holy ******, Blissbarb Archers are the most challenging model to build in a long time. Set aside about 2 hours minimum for these folks, the flash is connected to some incredibly delicate and obtuse points, but the end result is great. 

Got some games with my casual list and decided on the more competitive slant:

 

Gluttos - 400

The Masque - 130

Keeeper of Secrets - 340

 

Chaos Warriors x 5 - 90

Chaos Warriors x 5 - 90

Blissbarb Archers x 11 - 160

 

Blissbarb Seekers x 5 - 180

Slickblade Seekers x 5 - 200

Slickblade Seekers x 5 - 200

 

Seeker Calvacade - 140

 

Geminids - 60

2000/2000

Exalted Seeeker spam and Gluttos in every list is exactly what I feared. The Seekers are good but more importantly they are some of the only effecient points per wound models. 

Masque is great tech for a fast and easy to hide summoning anchor. 

Archers probably need to hide on turn 1. Maybe even turn 2. Let Gluttos and the Seekers get stuck in on things and then expose them once you've taken a crack at hitting their gunline. 

Geminids as a -2 to hit threat is good protection against the double turn. Usually not a fan but I concede I was wrong on it, same as Seeker Calvacade. 

Atm I will stick with more casual list (Fiends, 10 Knights, CLoK, only 1 unit of Exalted Seekers) simply for the joy of unit variety, but what a squandered opportunity this book has ended up becoming...

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Just had a game against Gloomspite Gitz squig list (2 manglers, 1 colossal, rest are bounders who do 2 damage on a charge) using this intentionally awful list:

Godseekers

- Glutos 

- Sigvald

- Lord of Pain (general), retreat and charge

- Shardspeaker

- Painbringers ×5

- Twin souls ×5 

- Slickblade Seekers ×5

- Blissbarb Archers ×11

- Blissbarb Seekers ×5

- Slaangors ×3

Somehow, even with this list, I managed to win on shifting objectives. The game was a lot of scrums over the objectives. I got a total of 25 depravity over two turns before tabling the goblins. 

Glutos was a massive tank - he survived two rounds in combat with a charging mangler squig and killed it despite fluffing a lot, and his -1 to hit aura provided much needed defence for the rest of the army (especially against squigs). Glutos used the battleshock immunity spell which I'd really recommend on him until he can switch it out on the 3rd battleround. 

Slaangors and painbringers weren't great, but somehow kept a colossal squig in check until Glutos finished it off. 

Slickblades were great, doing a good amount of damage to boingrot bounders and got a lot of depravity points from them. 

Twin Souls lost two early from a charge, but killed four bounders and helped a summoned unit of fiends to kill the rest of the unit of 10. 

The on foot archers died immediately on a charge but did some small damage beforehand. The blissbarb seekers were weirdly tanky with Glutos nearby. 

Sigvald survived a mangler charge and did 9 damage in return, before he finished it off next turn. He was okay, but was stuck in a corner for a while.

Overall, I had a lot of fun and it reminds me more of old AoS where combats weren't decided by who attacks first. It is much much more fun to me for combats to be decided over multiple rounds rather than in huge alpha strikes. Certainly this list wasn't optimal, but I'm kind of glad we don't have some crazy way to get 50 attacks at 2/2/-2/3  on a first turn charge or something.

Edited by Enoby
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I bought 2 units of exhalted seekers, and am currently painting blissbarb archers. I am aiming for 1000 pts, and when that is painted And Inplay a few games, will determine if I go to 2000 or start the next shiny new thing.  I like variety but am concerned that I end up preferring the melee slickblades to the ranged seekers, especially since I am considering the seeker cavalcade at 2000.

For those with experience with this army, do you feel 1-2 units of slickblades and a single unit of seekers is a good build, or should I really specialize my cavalry to melee and compound interest with the Cavalcade battallion?

 

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1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Just had a game against Gloomspite Gitz squig list (2 manglers, 1 colossal, rest are bounders who do 2 damage on a charge) using this intentionally awful list:

Godseekers

- Glutos 

- Sigvald

- Lord of Pain (general), retreat and charge

- Shardspeaker

- Painbringers ×5

- Twin souls ×5 

- Slickblade Seekers ×5

- Blissbarb Archers ×11

- Blissbarb Seekers ×5

- Slaangors ×3

Somehow, even with this list, I managed to win on shifting objectives. The game was a lot of scrums over the objectives. I got a total of 25 depravity over two turns before tabling the goblins. 

Glutos was a massive tank - he survived two rounds in combat with a charging mangler squig and killed it despite fluffing a lot, and his -1 to hit aura provided much needed defence for the rest of the army (especially against squigs). Glutos used the battleshock immunity spell which I'd really recommend on him until he can switch it out on the 3rd battleround. 

Slaangors and painbringers weren't great, but somehow kept a colossal squig in check until Glutos finished it off. 

Slickblades were great, doing a good amount of damage to boingrot bounders and got a lot of depravity points from them. 

Twin Souls lost two early from a charge, but killed four bounders and helped a summoned unit of fiends to kill the rest of the unit of 10. 

The on foot archers died immediately on a charge but did some small damage beforehand. The blissbarb seekers were weirdly tanky with Glutos nearby. 

Sigvald survived a mangler charge and did 9 damage in return, before he finished it off next turn. He was okay, but was stuck in a corner for a while.

Overall, I had a lot of fun and it reminds me more of old AoS where combats weren't decided by who attacks first. It is much much more fun to me for combats to be decided over multiple rounds rather than in huge alpha strikes. Certainly this list wasn't optimal, but I'm kind of glad we don't have some crazy way to get 50 attacks at 2/2/-2/3  on a first turn charge or something.

How did the blissbarb seekers feel, vs slickblades? Did you feel like another  of slickblades would have been preferable, or they played their own jseful role? Wondering If I build one of each or 2 slickblades. I am considering Glutos in larger lists (planning and painting 1000 pts first).

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2 minutes ago, Silphid said:

How did the blissbarb seekers feel, vs slickblades? Did you feel like another  of slickblades would have been preferable, or they played their own jseful role? Wondering If I build one of each or 2 slickblades. I am considering Glutos in larger lists (planning and painting 1000 pts first).

I personally think the Slickblades would have been better, at the cost of some depravity from the shooting, but both performed pretty well. That said, in the battalion, Slickblades would be much better.

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34 minutes ago, Silphid said:

I bought 2 units of exhalted seekers, and am currently painting blissbarb archers. I am aiming for 1000 pts, and when that is painted And Inplay a few games, will determine if I go to 2000 or start the next shiny new thing.  I like variety but am concerned that I end up preferring the melee slickblades to the ranged seekers, especially since I am considering the seeker cavalcade at 2000.

For those with experience with this army, do you feel 1-2 units of slickblades and a single unit of seekers is a good build, or should I really specialize my cavalry to melee and compound interest with the Cavalcade battallion?

 

It's a good build. Seekers are the best units we have right now (heroes apart); slickblades are great damage dealers, and blissbarb will produce a healthy amount of DPs and still be safe thanks to their threat range, wounds and speed.

You can certainly go all in and build a Cavalcade list (our only good battalion other than Sybarites), but you can't go wrong with a couple units of slickblades and one of blissbarb in almost any list.

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8 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I personally think the Slickblades would have been better, at the cost of some depravity from the shooting, but both performed pretty well. That said, in the battalion, Slickblades would be much better.

I've tried out the Blissbarb seekers in my last games and they are absolute beasts in Cavalcade. Played 4x5 units and they could chip away at stuff for DP or focus down something if needed. Also not terrible in melee for an archer unit. 2.9" shenanigans is also busted and they could easily neutralize big threats by forcing horrendous pile ins. 

As you mentioned they are surprisingly tanky. 20 wounds on a small footprint, 2.9-ing and potentially 4+ in Lurid Haze and -1 to hit with Glutos. I actually found Slaanesh being surprisingly resilient overall. We don't have traditional survivability but between hit/wound penalties, ambushes, save buffs, decent amount of wounds and summoning we have pretty good staying power.  

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Played a game against Lumineth last night against a very new player, so not many learning points. Slickblades continued to show value though. Their speed allows you to really take advantage of any positioning mistakes your opponent makes. In this game my opponent was flanking with two units of dawnriders that had to snake out a bit to fit between terrain features, and I was able to intercept them with one unit of 5 slickblades and wipe out both units of dawnriders in two rounds of combat, losing one model to actual damage and a second model when I rolled a 6 for battleshock.

Taking a Plague Priest or a unit of 5 Plague Censer Bearers continues to seem incredibly powerful. In every game they generate a ton of DP for me, and they truly shine when your opponent takes the first turn.

This list may be kinda dumb, but I also think it might have some play to it for those of you that still like Beasts of Chaos:

 

Invaders - Lurid Haze

Doombull  (general, mandatory artefact and command trait)

Doombull (general)

Doombull (general)

Great Bray Shaman (rod of misrule)

Plague Priest

3x10 Ungors

40 Ungor Raiders

2x1 Tuskgor Chariots

2x30 Bestigors

Cygor

 

There are a couple of things that I really like about this list. First and foremost it's 2 drops and thus will get the turn choice most of the time. That's super powerful with Slaanesh, as you can often give your opponent the turn, generate DP and then start summoning right away. The list is also very beefy (especially for a Slaanesh list) at 188 wounds. When your gameplan is to just keep flooding the board, starting with that much will make it even harder for your opponent to stabilize. You also don't have any real key units that your opponent can kill to cripple you. Nothing really takes huge advantage of Lurid Haze, but being able to bring the Raiders or a Doombull or two in from the edge will at least stress your opponent, and it makes getting a general in enemy territory very easy. You've got a lot of screens and trash units to act as speed bumps, and you've got some legitimate hammer units that can also take a hit. You should have plenty of CP to take advantage of the +1 save CA, making those 30 Bestigor blocks a lot tougher. The Bestigors also have an impressive threat range with run and charge. The Ungor Raiders and Cygor also have very long threat ranges, which should allow you to sprinkle most of your opponent's army and generate a good amount of DP even if you are being conservative with your melee troops.

I could also imagine a version dropping a bunch of things for Glutos and cogs or a Contorted Epitome and cogs.

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19 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Stupid question: Do all Slaanesh Chariots share the Same Box?

So could I build any Chariot out of the one in the Shadow and Pain box?

This is true. The Exalted Chariot is also just two small chariot kits, so you could build one small chariot of either variant, or a single big one if you got another kit.

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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Stupid question: Do all Slaanesh Chariots share the Same Box?

So could I build any Chariot out of the one in the Shadow and Pain box?

Yeah, I built a regular Seeker Chariot from my shadow and pain box, it's the exact same kit as the Hellstrider (though you may want to look up the instructions online rather than just wing it like I did, they're pretty fiddly as I'm sure you're aware!)  As noted above the Exalted Chariot would need another chariot kit mixed in.

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4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Stupid question: Do all Slaanesh Chariots share the Same Box?

So could I build any Chariot out of the one in the Shadow and Pain box?

For even more Slaanesh fun note that the deamonettes all share the same head and arm connection points. The riders also share the same riding connection and the seeker mounts are also the same shapes! 

This means that you can mix and match! Heads and arms swap freely with any of the deamonettes; meanwhile any riding deamonettes can go upon any seeker, this includes the ones from the chariot kit. Indeed if you make a few seeker chariots you might well wind up with a load of spare riding deamonettes with enough parts to give them claws and heads but no mount. If you ever end up with excess hellstriders you don't want you can put the deamonettes on those seekers (same seekers once again). The only thing you can't so easily do is swap arms with hellstriders as their forearm is thicker than a deamonette; but some greenstuff and modelling might fix that. 

I don't know how the new exalted seekers fit into the pattern, though I'd expect they might be larger and in a class of their own. 

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Just now, swarmofseals said:

@Overread they are much larger -- like gore-grunta size

Thought so. Honestly they are probably as big as seekers should be when you look at the art and how they used to appear - the diaz designs have the same "perched on" style of riding, though are smaller (demon and mount) than the current seekers by far. 

It wouldn't surprise me if when GW updates Deamonettes on seekers (which I wouldn't expect to happen for years) if those seekers get bigger too. 

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33 minutes ago, Overread said:

Thought so. Honestly they are probably as big as seekers should be when you look at the art and how they used to appear - the diaz designs have the same "perched on" style of riding, though are smaller (demon and mount) than the current seekers by far. 

It wouldn't surprise me if when GW updates Deamonettes on seekers (which I wouldn't expect to happen for years) if those seekers get bigger too. 

I think the day Daemonettes get an update (probably many years in the future. Unless we get new basic Daemons in a Be'Lakor Legions of Chaos Ascendant release) they will simply sculpt them on the new exalted seekers and retire the old seeker mount model. Hellstriders may be retired too in the next battletome, Slickblades are simply the modern Hellstriders, and i bet they were not retired yet simply because they wanted to sell all the stock in Shadow and Pain boxes without raising a massive rage.

I really hope we get some Daemonettes more akin to Diaznettes some day. New fiends prove that the concept still work and now we already have the mortals to embody other types of sins (by the way, Blissbarb Archers really enjoy their nudity anyway). I find dissapointing that Daemonettes are the only basic Daemon that use clothes... that really feel shoehorned to appeal to our real world market instead of inmersive. If they want to tone down the sexuality of the models, i would simply make the Daemonettes smooth (nude chest with no nipples) the same way Bloodletters are allowed to be nude without specific details.

When i was really young i remember nurgle models being really scary to me, imagery of people with the guts hunging outside hunted me in my nightmares. I don't get how nudity (a thing arguebly natural and beautiful out of context) can make such a scandal but gore and violence are so fine. Anyway, i really hope the next Daemons designs go in the Fiend direction.

I also lament the new Keeper of Secrets design direction, i really like the ForgeWorld concept much better. Don't get me wrorng, new KoS is amazing, but a modern GW sculpt of the ForgeWorld model would please me even more. I think she is a named character in 40K, maybe some day she get a unique updated sculpt too.

Im deep into Slaanesh at a Pshychological and even Philosophical level (in the best way possible, i hope) but i don't like how DoK has been getting all the naked ladies and mutated monster womans. At least my dream of running an all Fiends army seems closer.

Edited by Yoid
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2 hours ago, Yoid said:

I think the day Daemonettes get an update (probably many years in the future. Unless we get new basic Daemons in a Be'Lakor Legions of Chaos Ascendant release) they will simply sculpt them on the new exalted seekers and retire the old seeker mount model. Hellstriders may be retired too in the next battletome, Slickblades are simply the modern Hellstriders, and i bet they were not retired yet simply because they wanted to sell all the stock in Shadow and Pain boxes without raising a massive rage.

I really hope we get some Daemonettes more akin to Diaznettes some day. New fiends prove that the concept still work and now we already have the mortals to embody other types of sins (by the way, Blissbarb Archers really enjoy their nudity anyway). I find dissapointing that Daemonettes are the only basic Daemon that use clothes... that really feel shoehorned to appeal to our real world market instead of inmersive. If they want to tone down the sexuality of the models, i would simply make the Daemonettes smooth (nude chest with no nipples) the same way Bloodletters are allowed to be nude without specific details.

When i was really young i remember nurgle models being really scary to me, imagery of people with the guts hunging outside hunted me in my nightmares. I don't get how nudity (a thing arguebly natural and beautiful out of context) can make such a scandal but gore and violence are so fine. Anyway, i really hope the next Daemons designs go in the Fiend direction.

I also lament the new Keeper of Secrets design direction, i really like the ForgeWorld concept much better. Don't get me wrorng, new KoS is amazing, but a modern GW sculpt of the ForgeWorld model would please me even more. I think she is a named character in 40K, maybe some day she get a unique updated sculpt too.

Im deep into Slaanesh at a Pshychological and even Philosophical level (in the best way possible, i hope) but i don't like how DoK has been getting all the naked ladies and mutated monster womans. At least my dream of running an all Fiends army seems closer.

I like the new KoS more than the older one or the Forgeworld Keeper. Slaanesh is Extasy and represent the extrem parts of EVERYTHING...not only sex. So the new Keeper show us the proud and selfish pose of a sublime Monster. And this is far more Slaanesh than the old and becoming more boring old interpretation of Slaanesh. Slaanesh isn’t just sexy. Slaanesh can be dirty, clean or sth else...important is how much this Person lives and feels his emotions.

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11 hours ago, Enoby said:

Just had a game against Gloomspite Gitz squig list (2 manglers, 1 colossal, rest are bounders who do 2 damage on a charge) using this intentionally awful list:

Godseekers

- Glutos 

- Sigvald

- Lord of Pain (general), retreat and charge

- Shardspeaker

- Painbringers ×5

- Twin souls ×5 

- Slickblade Seekers ×5

- Blissbarb Archers ×11

- Blissbarb Seekers ×5

- Slaangors ×3

Somehow, even with this list, I managed to win on shifting objectives. The game was a lot of scrums over the objectives. I got a total of 25 depravity over two turns before tabling the goblins. 

Glutos was a massive tank - he survived two rounds in combat with a charging mangler squig and killed it despite fluffing a lot, and his -1 to hit aura provided much needed defence for the rest of the army (especially against squigs). Glutos used the battleshock immunity spell which I'd really recommend on him until he can switch it out on the 3rd battleround. 

Slaangors and painbringers weren't great, but somehow kept a colossal squig in check until Glutos finished it off. 

Slickblades were great, doing a good amount of damage to boingrot bounders and got a lot of depravity points from them. 

Twin Souls lost two early from a charge, but killed four bounders and helped a summoned unit of fiends to kill the rest of the unit of 10. 

The on foot archers died immediately on a charge but did some small damage beforehand. The blissbarb seekers were weirdly tanky with Glutos nearby. 

Sigvald survived a mangler charge and did 9 damage in return, before he finished it off next turn. He was okay, but was stuck in a corner for a while.

Overall, I had a lot of fun and it reminds me more of old AoS where combats weren't decided by who attacks first. It is much much more fun to me for combats to be decided over multiple rounds rather than in huge alpha strikes. Certainly this list wasn't optimal, but I'm kind of glad we don't have some crazy way to get 50 attacks at 2/2/-2/3  on a first turn charge or something.

My man running Slaangors! Haven't seen anybody else run them yet. You said they weren't great, but were they as bad as you thought they'd be? Did you find the lack of speed on the footsloggers was an issue? 

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3 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I like the Diaz Daemonettes and seekers, but mostly for their dynamism. I tend to agree that they are too heavily weighted toward the lust end of the spectrum. If I do end up working on a Slaanesh project with actual models I'm looking forward to converting up my own Daemonettes.

Yeah I hate the static poses of daemonettes. I played deprayed drove last book so I don't have a bunch of daemonettes already anyway so Im kitbashing mine from Unmade+daemonette parts. Mostly keep the unmade models and do weapon/claw and head swaps, but they turned out great.

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16 hours ago, Enoby said:

Overall, I had a lot of fun and it reminds me more of old AoS where combats weren't decided by who attacks first. It is much much more fun to me for combats to be decided over multiple rounds rather than in huge alpha strikes. Certainly this list wasn't optimal, but I'm kind of glad we don't have some crazy way to get 50 attacks at 2/2/-2/3  on a first turn charge or something.

This is how the game should be IMHO

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9 hours ago, LeonBox said:

 

My man running Slaangors! Haven't seen anybody else run them yet. You said they weren't great, but were they as bad as you thought they'd be? Did you find the lack of speed on the footsloggers was an issue? 

They certainly weren't as bad as I thought they'd be, but they weren't good either. I used them to run up to one of the objectives and screen a bit. With the help of Glutos's -1 to hit, the leader survived on 2 wounds and over the course of the four combats he lived through, he did about 4 or 5 wounds to the colossal squig. 

The lack of speed wasn't much of an issue as the objectives were in the centre and my front line was charged initially (I countercharged with units kept at the back). It might be an issue in different battleplans though. 

5 hours ago, Golub87 said:

This is how the game should be IMHO

I totally agree - this game was much more fun than any game I've had where units are getting killed every time they're charged. I think AoS often strays to close to rocket tag and that's quite boring in my opinion.  

It may sound strange, but Glutos is good for the game as a tanky hero who doesn't provide OP buffs or damage, but does slow down the game with the -1 to hit bubble and just being tanky.

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Any thoughts on an effective 1000 point list? I'm finding it somewhat difficult to fit stuff in. I normally play(ed) against semi-competitive DoK, Sylvaneth, COS and StD and we definitely don't have a shooting meta in our group.

I was thinking maybe building around the Contorted Epitome and using magic and ranged to generate DP and then summon units in to support. Something like:

INVADERS    
LURID HAZE    
The Contorted Epitome 210
Feverish Anticipation, Oil of Exultation
Shardspeaker 150  
Blissbarb Archers 160  
Blissbarb Archers 160  
Blissbarb Seekers 180  
Iron Golems 70  
Geminids 60  
  990  

But then I was thinking maybe at this points level the archers were a bit of trap and I'd be better going off with aiming to dish out loads of mortal wounds, with a small hardy core of of chaos warriors to fulfill battleline so I can fit all the other goodness in. Something like:

GODSEEKERS    
Bladebringer on exalted chariot 250
Speed-chaser, Enrapturing circlet
Bladebringer on seeker chariot 190  
Chaos Warriors 90  
Chaos Warriors 90  
Slickblade Seekers 200  
Blissbarb Seekers 180  
  1000  

The downside at 1K is less units to generate as much DP from as quickly.

Not sure if these would be effective though. Any thoughts?

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15 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

The downside at 1K is less units to generate as much DP from as quickly.

While true, a Kipper or 30 Daemonettes have much larger impact in such games as a single 12pt summon is 33-34% extra points. A note on the first list is that Shardspeaker debuff doesn't work with shooting so I don't think you'll get much mileage out of it in that list. I'd drop it for maybe 20 marauders to screen if needed or ambush with Lurid Haze or the Masque if you want 2 characters.

I like both lists but I think the 2nd is stronger. Godseekers can generate a ton of DP quickly can be staright up busted at 1000pts. If you plan on making the army 2000pts eventually then you should get a 1000pt force that builds towards that larger army.  these two 

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I‘ve just  won the following List Vs 2000 points of NH:

Goodseekers

Lord on Kakadrak - General. Sweeping Strikes, Chamon Artefact

Lord of Pain

Enrapturess - 1CP Artefact

Syll‘Esske

15 Chaos Warriors

20 Chaos Marauders

5 Hellstriders

5 Slickblades

Seeker Calvacade Battalion

3x Fiends

5 Chaos Knights

1 Malevolent Malestrom

 

VS

Reikenor

Knight of Shrouds

Guardian of Souls

Banshee

2 Chainghasts

Spirit Torment

2x 5 Hexwraiths

2x 20 Chainrasps

12x Myrmourn Banshee

10x Grimghasts

4x Glauve Wraith Stalkers

Chainguard Battalion


 

It was a casual game and we just played what we currently had. I won by the start of turn 3, due to rolling 1s for Battle Shock all the time. the Slickblades were very useful especially the 6“ pile-in.

The Chaos Warriors and Syll‘Esske never reached battle, the camped the right flank objective.

Overall the Seeker Nounts did more damage to his army than any other unit due to spiking the rolls with lots of 6s to hit.

Edited by JackStreicher
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I was just telling my personal opinion, i really like nudity as a design space. By the way, nudity is not equal to sex, otherwise we would say that Bloodletters are sexified too. Like the new Blissbarb Archers, some of them are bare chest and not in a sexual way. So the argument of "not too nude to not bee too much into sex" make no sense, specially when paired with the argument of "leaning also into other forms of excess" as nudity is more related to the self concept of body perfection and beauty (like Sigvald leg armor)

Again, im not saying Slaanesh should go in the direction i like (but that would please me). People saying that the new KoS express other forms of excess. And why would she not show her body even more exposed as a way to share the perfection of her body? Would have been so bad to have the chestpiece be a separate bit that attach over the body to appeal everyone?

It is also quite weird that Daemonettes usually dont cover the male side but do so with the female side. Maybe in the future they use more hair and tentacles to dinamically cover their nudity like they did with the Blissbarb Archers and allow for a more natural design not biased by our real world morality.

Edited by Yoid
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