AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Boar]

1 hour ago, umpac said:

"Twice" doesn't mean much when you compare them to a low dmg unit.

I mean if you talked about say 2-3 dmg I would agree, I see we just have very different benchmarks for "bit".

[Cambot1231]

Building Painbringers and was thinking of converting up twinsouls using the leftover bits for them in the box .  I can't tell if Dark eldar kabalite warriors or DRUKHARI INCUBI  are too small for the twinsoul arms/ weapons.  Does anyone have the dark eldar to size compare or perhaps a better idea of what torso might work? Thanks 

[swarmofseals]

just another ally thought: pink horrors.

[Trav]

3 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

Building Painbringers and was thinking of converting up twinsouls using the leftover bits for them in the box .  I can't tell if Dark eldar kabalite warriors or DRUKHARI INCUBI  are too small for the twinsoul arms/ weapons.  Does anyone have the dark eldar to size compare or perhaps a better idea of what torso might work? Thanks 

I think the kabalites are a lot skinnier and a little smaller? 

[scrollbuilderdude]

7 hours ago, Brother Mayhem said:

Warscroll builder doesn't have blissbarb seekers or blissbarb archers, where do we ask GW about them?

I'm on it! Slaangors also didn't make it either. Please send me a PM if there is anything else anyone notices.

Thanks!

[ibel]

11 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I might switch the chaos knights for Barbarians though.

Maybe.

But sry I dont totally understand your Battelplan with this Kind of Army not really.

Jes u had a tough General as the Lord an Karadrake with the Sorcerer ArmorReRollBuff

u can be very very lucky that u procc Syllsk Ability for the Mortals and Daemons but.... over all really strong komninations i dont see.

9 hours ago, BOTTL said:

GW have stated that White Dwarf subfactions and their battalions are still valid - they keep WDs with them in print permanently in case someone wants them - so Syll'Esske's Host is still valid.

It is legal. Question would be how works the DP Mechanik now ?! Can I hurt my on Heros with letzt say The Burning Head and get for them 2 DP each ?!

by the Way, I played the SGrinder Batt and it workt very well.

[JackStreicher]

3 minutes ago, ibel said:

But sry I dont totally understand your Battelplan with this Kind of Army not really.

Jes u had a tough General as the Lord an Karadrake with the Sorcerer ArmorReRollBuff

u can be very very lucky that u procc Syllsk Ability for the Mortals and Daemons but.... over all really strong komninations i dont see.

It‘s not supposed to be powerful  (imo in this book nothing really is powerful)

I just packed a bit of speed and durability plus DP generation.  I mostly play Slaanesh so I can use m S2D in another allegiance

[ibel]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I mostly play Slaanesh so I can use m S2D in another allegiance

ahhh okay. Jes, than i is funny, than there Cold be interresting games 😁

[LeonBox]

I'm beginning to think we need a FEC-style "add a model's wound characteristic value to its movement characteristic" spell. Siggy and the LoP are decent but that movement (and no run/charge, and losing the run & charge command trait from Godseekers) makes it hard to justify including them in any list that wants to take advantage of our speed. 

[Feii]

3 hours ago, LeonBox said:

I'm beginning to think we need a FEC-style "add a model's wound characteristic value to its movement characteristic" spell. Siggy and the LoP are decent but that movement (and no run/charge, and losing the run & charge command trait from Godseekers) makes it hard to justify including them in any list that wants to take advantage of our speed. 

no Hedonites need a good designer to rewrite their battletome. They have gutted all the things people complained about and then increased prices and delivered bland designs for non named characters.

[Enoby]

Just curious, for those who have issues with the book, have you written into the rules team yet with your thoughts? If so, what did you say 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Enoby

[ibel]

5 hours ago, LeonBox said:

I'm beginning to think we need a FEC-style "add a model's wound characteristic value to its movement characteristic" spell.

There are too Many Shootie Armys to life after the 1te Round so... Maybe here something they could do.

Or u make a plan with enough DP vor SAVE 12 Points in Turn 1 so u can Summon a keeper near by your Units in the Front. I could imagine many Ideas and List totally without a KoS at the Beginning but Summon one in turn 2. Than u make a Chargemove with Cogs = everything fine

1 hour ago, Feii said:

no Hedonites need a good designer to rewrite their battletome. They have gutted all the things people complained about and then increased prices and delivered bland designs for non named characters

The Mechanik and how the Batteltome Maybe could work is cool. But jes all Unitcosts seems 15-20% too expensive....I Think we will see a heavy FAQ here in 3 to 6 months.

[TimeToWaste85]

In regard to Syll’Essk Host...when heroes cause or take wounds they generate double depravity. So why wouldn’t it just work that you keep a tally of wounds done by/to your heroes and wounds done by/to regular guys; the wounds involving your heroes generate 2DP, the ones involving your normies generate 1DP. It’s more book keeping, but it DOES work. And if a hero and a normie unit both cause DP on the same squad, a hero was involved so it’s worth 2. Seems to work fine to me with a little common sense. 

[ibel]

17 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

the wounds involving your heroes generate 2DP,

Sry. I understand the new DP-Mechanik that the Unit who gets wound or Mortal Wounds generate the DP.

So the only Way to generate 2 DP with ONE unit in a Turn is if your hero(s) get a wound or mortal wound AND is in the Range of Syllsk.

One trick here would be…. Buy 5 Heros and Syllsk in the Battalion. Cast for example The Burning Head, wound all 5 Heros+Syllsk = BOMM 12 DesperationPoints out of this Kombo…...That would work i think. But more u can`t spend more than 12 DP per Turn (so in Turn 2,3,4,5). But Jes this work, o not ?!

[Feii]

9 minutes ago, ibel said:

Sry. I understand the new DP-Mechanik that the Unit who gets wound or Mortal Wounds generate the DP.

So the only Way to generate 2 DP with ONE unit in a Turn is if your hero(s) get a wound or mortal wound AND is in the Range of Syllsk.

One trick here would be…. Buy 5 Heros and Syllsk in the Battalion. Cast for example The Burning Head, wound all 5 Heros+Syllsk = BOMM 12 DesperationPoints out of this Kombo…...That would work i think. But more u can`t spend more than 12 DP per Turn (so in Turn 2,3,4,5). But Jes this work, o not ?!

Ah yes burning head my own HQs what a f*cking amazing pinnacle of the GW design.  But to be fair it is slaanesh so you could say they are giving themselves a head? 😎

[TimeToWaste85]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

Sry. I understand the new DP-Mechanik that the Unit who gets wound or Mortal Wounds generate the DP.

So the only Way to generate 2 DP with ONE unit in a Turn is if your hero(s) get a wound or mortal wound AND is in the Range of Syllsk.

One trick here would be…. Buy 5 Heros and Syllsk in the Battalion. Cast for example The Burning Head, wound all 5 Heros+Syllsk = BOMM 12 DesperationPoints out of this Kombo…...That would work i think. But more u can`t spend more than 12 DP per Turn (so in Turn 2,3,4,5). But Jes this work, o not ?!

I just checked my WD: if the hero does/takes a wound or mortal wound that generates DP, you get two instead of one. The wounds or MWs lead to damage taken that leads to a battleshock test. RAW...Syll Eske host allows for 2DP per W/MW that has an effect in the Battleshock phase caused by and dealt to your heroes. Just not when it comes from ESs or rank and files (unless they do damage to your heroes). 

Edited February 25, 2021 by TimeToWaste85

[Yoid]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

Just curious, for those who have issues with the book, have you written into the rules team yet with your thoughts? If so, what did you say 

Im planing to write that some time later, the book is too recent, like 1-2-3 weeks after the official release.

Im still making my mind about what im gonna say, but i will try to sumarize the matters i want to bring.

-Communicating my opinion in points being too high except for Blissbarb Seekers and Slickblades Seekers, suggesting a point reduction of 20 to 40 points all around the roster.

-Suggesting that a day is reserved for the team that did DoK battletome to review HoS tome, an the team that did HoS tome to review DoK tome. Then making an online videocall meeting bewteen both in order to adjust the points of the tomes accordingly in an externally balanced way.

-Sugesting that if the points cannot be fixed in a better way until the next General Handbook, it may be a good idea to at least reduce everything in the army 10 to 20pts in the errata as a premptive move to not leave the players in a limbo.

-Leaving my opinion about Slaangor Fienbloods being a problem that should not be fixed by reducing their points because that goes agaisnt their power fantasy. But suggesting that simply writing in the errata that their Razor-sharp Claw(s) got a damage value of 2 instead of 1 can probably fix the unit in an extremely easy way.

That is it from the top of my head.

[umpac]

1 hour ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I just checked my WD: if the hero does/takes a wound or mortal wound that generates DP, you get two instead of one. The wounds or MWs lead to damage taken that leads to a battleshock test. RAW...Syll Eske host allows for 2DP per W/MW that has an effect in the Battleshock phase caused by and dealt to your heroes. Just not when it comes from ESs or rank and files (unless they do damage to your heroes). 

No, in the Syll host it says that you get extra points for wounds inflicted by the keeper but thats not how DP works now. Its not the heroes that gives you the DP but the wounded unit. RAW you should still get extra DP from wounds taken though. Syll host is in the warscroll builder so clearly its still legal. It's going to be interesting to see if its addressed in the FAQ.

This seems unlikely but if Syllesske host gets FAQ'd to work completely with the new rules, as in all units that generate DPs within 12" gives you 2 DP instead, then that will certainly give the army a potential shot in the arm in terms of power level since it has basically the best DP and CP generation of all hosts. Syll host seems like a perfect opportunity to bridge the gap between daemons and mortals. Still isn't gonna help against shooting though.

Edited February 25, 2021 by umpac

[Enoby]

Finished my painbringers - quite glad we won't use loads of them because this is an expensive conversions

[Twisted Firaun]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Finished my painbringers - quite glad we won't use loads of them because this is an expensive conversions

lovely, also out of curiosity what mortal units are worth picking up? I'm thinking of doing a Tomb Kings/Mardi Gras themed army being led by "The Fanged Queen"(who may or may not be a corrupted Khalida).

[AngryPanda]

2 hours ago, Yoid said:

Im planing to write that some time later, the book is too recent, like 1-2-3 weeks after the official release.

Im still making my mind about what im gonna say, but i will try to sumarize the matters i want to bring.

-Communicating my opinion in points being too high except for Blissbarb Seekers and Slickblades Seekers, suggesting a point reduction of 20 to 40 points all around the roster.

-Suggesting that a day is reserved for the team that did DoK battletome to review HoS tome, an the team that did HoS tome to review DoK tome. Then making an online videocall meeting bewteen both in order to adjust the points of the tomes accordingly in an externally balanced way.

-Sugesting that if the points cannot be fixed in a better way until the next General Handbook, it may be a good idea to at least reduce everything in the army 10 to 20pts in the errata as a premptive move to not leave the players in a limbo.

-Leaving my opinion about Slaangor Fienbloods being a problem that should not be fixed by reducing their points because that goes agaisnt their power fantasy. But suggesting that simply writing in the errata that their Razor-sharp Claw(s) got a damage value of 2 instead of 1 can probably fix the unit in an extremely easy way.

That is it from the top of my head.

I’m on the same boat: I am going to do more play testing over the next couple of weeks to report more reputable data. I feel that with some appropriate point adjustments, everything will be balanced pretty decently and we will have a fun battletome that would allow for multiple play styles. As of now though, the painbringers and twinsouls are just too expensive. They may be ok for casual or narrative play, but are overpriced for anything competitive. The Lord of Pain and Shardspeaker may need some adjustment as well, but there is more leeway with the shardspeaker because his buff and debuff applies to anything, and can be added to any chaos army (besides Khorne lol). 
 

Fiendbloods are the biggest miss, and the additional damage on their weapon profiles will do a lot to alleviate them; but even with 2 and 3 damage they’re still only a +5 save unit that hits on 4s.  Though the 3 wounds and high movement speed will help their survivability and threat range, it’s hard to gauge how efficient they will be without additional testing after the assumed changes are made. I am also hoping that within the campaign books that are being released, that they add a battalion that supports fiendbloods. I have a funny suspicion that they were rushed or changed last minute, and that’s why they were released so poorly, as every new unit released I’ve seen has always been associated to a battalion. 

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, Yoid said:

Suggesting that a day is reserved for the team that did DoK battletome to review HoS tome, an the team that did HoS tome to review DoK tome. Then making an online videocall meeting bewteen both in order to adjust the points of the tomes accordingly in an externally balanced way.

DoK Are Fine though (imo) 

[Yoid]

24 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

DoK Are Fine though (imo) 

Is not about changing DoK, is about making sure that both teams are in the same page to make battletomes that are balanced externally. If DoK is ok, then that meeting would end with no point changes for them, but im sure it will result in a big decrease in points for Slaanesh. The team that did DoK would probably look at our battletome and say "In no world this unit with this bad synergy can cost that, it need to be cheaper" while HoS team may easily say "We didn't know pointing so agresive was allowed or healthy for the game, our units certainly need to be cheaper" or something like that. Is about they both being able to communicate and work within the same bounds.

Of course, i actually doubt about GW taking that brilliant idea seriously, they will probably end adjusting the points based in some other confusing ways.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Yoid

[Boar]

3 hours ago, Yoid said:

both teams

Aren't there like 3 guys total working on AoS?

[LeonBox]

4 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

Fiendbloods are the biggest miss, and the additional damage on their weapon profiles will do a lot to alleviate them; but even with 2 and 3 damage they’re still only a +5 save unit that hits on 4s.  Though the 3 wounds and high movement speed will help their survivability and threat range, it’s hard to gauge how efficient they will be without additional testing after the assumed changes are made. I am also hoping that within the campaign books that are being released, that they add a battalion that supports fiendbloods. I have a funny suspicion that they were rushed or changed last minute, and that’s why they were released so poorly, as every new unit released I’ve seen has always been associated to a battalion. 

It's sorta baffling that those not using the gilded sword profile don't get double attacks with their claws (as I believe someone mentioned upthread). The warscroll even takes the time to differentiate between singular and plural claws but it's the same number of attacks regardless?