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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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I was rereading the rules for generating depravity and correct me if I am wrong but you only generate depravity if you hurt or kill models from a unit without wiping it out right? It says “each unit on the battlefield” so I kill 3 units outright I would get no DP? Or are people assuming that it was intended to give DP if you wipe out a unit as well.

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8 hours ago, ibel said:

Can u tell us a Little bit more?

I am a Little bit afraid becouse of the many many Player who go all out Shooting in Tournement so I think it would be very difficult für Slaneesh here. Maybe with 1Turn List or Luzird Haraz?

If you look through my post history you'll see some more in depth thoughts. In general though I think that very heavy ranged damage is probably going to be Slaanesh's toughest matchup, and such lists are quite popular right now. There will be certain enemy faction + battleplan combinations that will be very difficult to win. So if your entire goal is to 5-0 a major and nothing less will do, then I probably wouldn't play Slaanesh right now. But that doesn't mean that Slaanesh is bad. If the metagame shifts toward melee then Slaanesh will be very good, and even now I think Slaanesh can do very well if you get the right opponents.

I looked at all of the 3+ round events on tabletop.to for February that had lists available and checked all of the lists that had one loss or fewer and found that only 11 out of 47 lists were heavy shooting. There were some moderate shooting lists in there too, of course, but I think those will be less problematic. It's hardly a guarantee that you'll run into a gunline at the top tables even in this meta.

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16 minutes ago, herohammer said:

I was rereading the rules for generating depravity and correct me if I am wrong but you only generate depravity if you hurt or kill models from a unit without wiping it out right? It says “each unit on the battlefield” so I kill 3 units outright I would get no DP? Or are people assuming that it was intended to give DP if you wipe out a unit as well.

You don't get DP if you wipe out a unit or if your unit is wiped out. This fact makes Slaanesh's playstyle very different from the usual.

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Quick question! Does a Lord of Pain in an Invaders army unlock Myrmidesh/Symbaresh as battleline simply by being one of the three generals, even if it's not the one that gets given the command trait? At the moment, the official scrollbuilder doesn't support this, and the rules are a little vague. The Invaders rule reads:

"Your army can have up to 3 generals instead of 1. Only 1 of your generals can have a command trait, but all 3 are considered to be a general for the purposes of using command abilities."

And the conditional battleline rule is:

"Battleline if general is a Lord of Pain"

I suspect that this works, or is intended to work, but neither rule is written in a way that explicitly confirms or denies this. Thoughts appreciated!

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Can anyone give me a little help? I'm interested in the wording on the invaders Allegiance ability, particularly figureheads of the dark prince. Do I have to take 3 generals, or can I take 3 generals? I'm looking at trying out a lurid haze list, but I don't have the book in front of me to see this and I'm being impatient. I'd happily trade off the extra 2 CP and just take 1 general if it means everyone can use their command ability without worrying about spacing.

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1 minute ago, Graywater said:

Can anyone give me a little help? I'm interested in the wording on the invaders Allegiance ability, particularly figureheads of the dark prince. Do I have to take 3 generals, or can I take 3 generals? I'm looking at trying out a lurid haze list, but I don't have the book in front of me to see this and I'm being impatient. 

You can but don t have to

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1 hour ago, CJPT said:

Quick question! Does a Lord of Pain in an Invaders army unlock Myrmidesh/Symbaresh as battleline simply by being one of the three generals, even if it's not the one that gets given the command trait? At the moment, the official scrollbuilder doesn't support this, and the rules are a little vague. The Invaders rule reads:

"Your army can have up to 3 generals instead of 1. Only 1 of your generals can have a command trait, but all 3 are considered to be a general for the purposes of using command abilities."

Interestingly, with the wording in the old book it wouldn't have worked. But in the new book I'm 99,99% sure it does 👍

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14 minutes ago, Third said:

Interestingly, with the wording in the old book it wouldn't have worked. But in the new book I'm 99,99% sure it does 👍

What was different in the old book?

I would be surprised if it was an issue.  GW generally writes permissive rules.  Meaning you take the BRB/Core and then permit changes based on Battletomes.

So you have one general, he's a Lord of Pain, he unlocks said unit.  You take Invaders, your Lord of Pain is still a general of the army.  Nothing stopped that from happening.  You can just have 2 more who act as Generals in addition.

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1 hour ago, CJPT said:

Quick question! Does a Lord of Pain in an Invaders army unlock Myrmidesh/Symbaresh as battleline simply by being one of the three generals, even if it's not the one that gets given the command trait?

I think a Warhammer Community article made a point to say having a Lord of Pain as one of the Invaders generals unlocked them, yes.

Found it. I know it's just a Community article and they don't really deal with rules but it's something .

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/10/3-decadently-different-ways-to-build-your-hedonite-host/

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16 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Are 15 Chaos Warriors actually better than 10 Painbringers?

Short answer: Yes

Still pretty short answer: Painbringers gain a bit of damage from -1 rend, MW procs and exploding attacks while losing MW protection. Chaos warriors might be a bit pillow fisted but they both Painbringers and Warriors fill the role of an anvil, and Warriors are a much tougher anvil (MW protection and 10 extra wounds). You also pay 30 pts more for the Painbringers so its more like 17 warriors vs 10 painbringers. 

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10 minutes ago, umpac said:

Still pretty short answer: Painbringers gain a bit of damage from -1 rend, MW procs and exploding attacks while losing MW protection

Assuming 15 warriors with halberds (so they can actually hit), then 10 Mymidesh have almost twice damage (vs 4+ or 5+). Against re-rolled save, or 3+ it quickly becomes very lopsided with significant advantage to Painbringers. So it's not "bit" of damage.

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I think it's best to look at painbringers as a hybrid between anvil and hammer - don't get me wrong, they're likely overcosted - but I think when people compare them to chaos warriors or to chosen, they risk missing the benefit of bringing a bit of both to the table, or they don't value it. 

I don't think they're an underappreciated gem (though I think they're good enough to be functional), but rather they have a place as an anvil that bites. A unit of 10 chaos warriors do an average of 4.7 damage against a 4+ save whereas 5 twinsouls do 5.1. Both reroll saves (until a chaos warrior dies), but chaos warriors are double the wounds and have a MW save. So chaos warriors, for their cost, are better tanks but worse at damage and their saves become worse quickly (only 2 damage needed). Painbringers have worse damage than chosen, but are tankier. If they'd just come down a bit in cost I think they'd find a great hybrid role in the army.

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24 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Are 15 Chaos Warriors actually better than 10 Painbringers?

For the purpose of holding objectives, yes, as they’re far more resilient and cheaper. A squad of 15 chaos warriors with shields protects you against mortal wounds, allows to reroll saves so long as there’s at least ten models in the unit, and is 30 wounds. A unit of 10 painbringers is more expensive despite being 20 wounds, and although they are allow to reroll saves in any sized unit, they do not have the ability to protect themselves against mortal wounds.  
 

In terms of damage output, painbringers  come ahead by a decent bit. Their weapons have rend, and they cause mortal wounds on a 6 to hit, which also generates an additional attack. They’re also a bit faster, with a movement of 6 inches. 
 

However, for what you’re purchasing they’re very expensive. When it comes to Slaanesh, and AoS in general, competitively it’s best to invest points into units that will be causing damage. Chaos warriors are cheap enough to be taken in bulk to anchor objects, giving you the option to purchase heavy hitters like a KoS, a unit of fiends, or Glutos and Sigvald. 

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1 hour ago, Boar said:

Assuming 15 warriors with halberds (so they can actually hit), then 10 Mymidesh have almost twice damage (vs 4+ or 5+). Against re-rolled save, or 3+ it quickly becomes very lopsided with significant advantage to Painbringers. So it's not "bit" of damage.

"Twice" doesn't mean much when you compare them to a low dmg unit. 10 Painbringers deal 10 wounds to 4+ save, which is 4-6 more than pillow fisted shield warriors (depending on how many you get into combat). I'd say 4-6 wounds is a "bit" of damage. That's why you take warriors of you want an anvil and something else entirely if you want a hammer (twinsouls, slickblades, daemonettes).

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3 hours ago, Nilworth said:

Forgive me if this has been answered, but is the Syll ‘Esskian host no longer valid since it wasn’t printed in our new tome? I really enjoyed the soul grinder battalion from it.

GW have stated that White Dwarf subfactions and their battalions are still valid - they keep WDs with them in print permanently in case someone wants them - so Syll'Esske's Host is still valid. It might need some updates to account for new points/depravity, but it's legal.

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