Jump to content

AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


HERO

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I'm still gonna be using Myrmidesh and Symbaresh (love the models too much), but I think Chaos Warriors beat them as a screening unit - especially as a sacrificial one. That said, if Myrmidesh and Symbaresh get a points drop (if we need one), they are going to be fantastic.

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I feel that Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos still have a place in our army. A lot of our models are very expensive atm, but they're the only ones that benefit from Euphoric killers. I think that gives our allies the role of cheap non-elites for screening and back capping objectives (someone needs to stand on the objective in home turf or acting as chaff to throw into the opponent's face and disrupt their first turn) whereas our key units have more specified roles that are there to carry the army.

I've been thinking about this too and trying to math it out. Initially it seems like the new mortals are pretty comparable to their equivalent slaves units when you adjust for points. Slaves are cheaper but after you adjust for points they're just a touch worse overall, so you have the choice of the bigger investment up front on the new stuff or putting more bodies on the table with slaves. The one exception I've found is of course marauders. Even without euphoric killers they're still much better than daemonettes and they have access to way better buffs with the chaos sorcerer lord. Oddly enough I think that slaves units will become much more prevalent in hedonites now then they were before, which is unfortunate if you think about it.

Edited by Grimrock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is my first real crack at a list. Unfortunately not much hedonite stuff but it might do ok. 

Chaos Lord
Chaos Sorcerer Lord
Contorted Epitome

40 Chaos Marauders
2x5 Chaos Knights
15 Chaos Warriors
2x11 Blissbarb Archers

Chaos Warshrine

Pleasurebound Warband

I'd play it as godseekers and make the contorted epitome the general. The list isn't going to kill much, really the only thing that can do meaningful damage is the marauders, but it is pretty good at gumming up lines with the extra pile in on the pleasurebound warband and milking depravity for as long as possible due to the overall durability. Might just be enough to grind a mediocre opponent down and slowly get the upper hand off of summoning. It is a little funny that the absolute worst of the god marked battalions from slaves is the best thing I can think of for Slaanesh. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, uratourist said:

Alright, I have the Slaanesh stuff from the Shadows and pain box, should I gear it to a seeker list? Or are the old hellstriders not the best

Hellstriders aren't great atm from what I can tell - I can see them getting knocked down in price - but a seeker list in general could work well :) That said, I've never seen an actual proper attempt at Hellstriders before in Slaanesh so they may surprise us 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've done a review of all of the underlying combat efficiencies in the battletome. The clear winner for the best warscroll is Slickblade Seekers. They have among the highest offensive efficiencies in the allegiance (beaten only by twinsouls in their offensive mode) and among the highest defensive efficiencies as well (beaten by myrmidesh in melee only, twinsouls in their defensive mode only, and Blissbarb Seekers). They are also super fast.

The other standout warscroll is Blissbarb Archers,  who have OK offensive efficiency for a ranged unit but are very good at generating depravity (as many of you have noted).

On the hero side of the coin I think there are a few noteworthy options. The Keeper of Secrets and Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot are probably the two best combat daemons. Bladebringer is more offensively efficient on the charge but about the same when not charging (and much more efficient if hitting multiple targets. Both are about the same defensive efficiency. Keeper is faster and has more utility (command ability, better spell access, self healing). I think any list is going to want one of these two to harass the opponent and pin large units with locus. Seekers are probably the best host, and the combination of retreat and charge and enemy can't retreat are perfect for this role. My instinct is to take the keeper first, but I don't think it would be completely crazy to consider the Bladebringer if points constraints require it.

Glutos and Sigvald are noteworthy in that both are reasonably defensively efficient. Sigvald is a bit more offensively efficient (and moreso than a Keeper), while Glutos brings some pretty solid utility. The main problem with both of these guys is that they are slow.

The Lord of pain looks good on paper but I expect that he won't be very practical as he can't keep up with the Slickblade Seekers.

Shardspeaker is more interesting and definitely merits consideration. Slickblade Seekers definitely need to worry about battleshock, so Battle Rapture could be a real help.

Infernal Enrapturess and Contorted Epitome are both worth thinking about for anti-magic, but I think both are something of a longshot.

 

Overall I think the most competitive builds will have the following components:

  • 3 units of 11 Blissbarb Archers to generate depravity and fill battleline requirements. Should be enough shots to tag most if not all enemy units.
  • At least one big daemon hero general, either a Keeper of Secrets or a Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot
  • probably a single Shardspeaker
  • most of the rest of the points in Slickblade Seekers

I'm not certain that any of the battalions really work. Exalted Speed-Knights doesn't provide any battleline, so it'll still be a minimum 5 drop army and has a lot of tax (regular Seekers, Blissbarb Seekers which I don't think you want if you are taking Blissbarb Archers). Depraved Carnival similarly requires a lot of tax and only cuts drops by 3.

The gameplan will usually be to try to use your Slickblade Seekers and general to hold the opponent back as much as possible while generating maximum depravity and eventually flooding the board with Daemonettes.

My suggestion would probably be something along the lines of:

 

Keeper of Secrets (general, Enrapturing Circlet, Speed-chaser, Progeny of Damnation)

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (Battle Rapture)

Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot (Born of Damnation)

3x11 Blissbarb Archers

2x5 Slickblade Seekers

1x10 Slickblade Seekers

+1 CP

 

I don't think this build will be top tier, but I think it could be reasonably competitive and if the summoning is better than I think it could actually conceivably be at least high tier if not top tier. It's got decent damage, excellent mobility, good utility, and the summoning could provide really good staying power. I think 30 daemonettes a turn starting from turn 2 is not at all unreasonable.

  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

*snip*

I think this is a really great write up, thanks for doing it :)

On your list, I'm not sure if you'd be better splitting your glaives, so you have four units of 5? I'm just not sure if the unit of 10 could reach over one another. 

I'm iffy on Keepers atm; without the fane, their damage is swingy and they can't use their CA on themselves (though it's still very good on others). I still think twinsouls will be a hidden gem 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A unit of 10 might not all make it into close combat range, but at the same time a unit of 10 might well not make it to close combat as 10 models. Losses will be taken on the way and having a 10 model unit gives you a powerful force to hit the enemy hard with; something that can survive the rounds and put out significant damage. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Rivener said:

The ability doesn’t work on enemy models, it works on the number of slaangor models. It’s like one MW, maybe, if any paper thin slaangors even survive.

I read the warscroll again and I see what you mean. The wording on it isn't great, as 'this' could arguably be applied to either the gors or the enemy unit, although I agree it's meant to be the gors. That's a shame, trash rules for some gorgeous models.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried out my list above in a practice game against an MSU khorne army. It was an interesting experience and there were some important points.

1. Depravity worked far better than I expected it to. I generated about 36 throughout the game netting me 2 keepers and one unit of 30 daemonettes
2. Summoning once per turn really hurts and forced me to make some tough decisions
3. Blissbarbs were great with depravity as people have said, but also a potent threat if they concentrated fire and very flexible with running and shooting. Died like flies but I think they might be my MVPs
4. The slaves to darkness were actually pretty good in the list. They're very tanky and generated a huge amount of depravity. The StD battalion with long pile in also helped push some damage around. The army was seriously lacking in damage overall though
5. Charging with a Keeper and then using the locus was hilariously effective
6. Keepers are still incredibly swingy and losing the ability to self buff makes it much worse. If you're going to run one of these you need to buff it with the fane as an absolute minimum
7. The change to godseeker depravity generation is really tricky. I only got points on one turn because my general died in the next round. +1 to charge off the summon was still clutch though

I'm going to try another list out and swap out for more of the new models. Maybe try out the slickblades and more archers.
 

Edited by Grimrock
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see the Keepers being worth taking at 340pts. But i see them being worth to summon for 12 DP as a double pile-in instant buff for any other unit (specially 30 blobs of Daemonettes) With the 340pts you can take 30 Daemonettes instead, they will hit way harder,  survive longer, generate more DP...

Guys looking for a lord to go with the Slickblades Seekers, you are supposed to pick a Bladebringer (any of the two). Rerolling 1s is not a bad buf for units hitting on a 3+, and you can give it both by spell or CA. Bladebringers on exalted chariots are still good even with the point hike, Bladebringers in regular chariots don't do damage but got decent wounds and you can take the healing spell for extra durability.

Another good hero to go with Slicklades is probably a Daemon Prince. He move fast, fly, always strike first, can use the rerolling 1s CA, is really tanky with the 3+ save... His attacks dosn't explode on 6s, but he generate DP and can summon. It may be a good general with some artifact and command trait.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Yoid said:

I don't see the Keepers being worth taking at 340pts. But i see them being worth to summon for 12 DP as a double pile-in instant buff for any other unit (specially 30 blobs of Daemonettes) With the 340pts you can take 30 Daemonettes instead, they will hit way harder,  survive longer, generate more DP...

Those 30 Daemonettes are also much slower, don't provide double pile-ins for the rest of your army, aren't two cast/unbind spellcasters, can't easily self-heal, can't use generic command abilities, don't provide the awesome new Locus ability, carry artifacts, use command traits, etc. Directly comparing heroes to units based purely on offensive and defensive efficiencies simply does not work in practice. For my 3x5 Slickblade lists, a Keeper is nigh mandatory because not only is it one of the few heroes that can keep up with them to provide them Inspiring Presence or Locus support, Excess of Violence is by far the strongest support ability available to Hedonites, and keeping that Locus around is itself another form of protection for both the Keeper and any Slickblades that charge in alongside it. 

Edited by Jaskier
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You missed half of my point, that they are good to be summon. You still got all those advantages you said, without paying a premium in regular points if you simply summon. Also some of the things you said like self healing dosn't really make the Keeper tankier compared to 30 wounds wich is double the wounds.

Of course you can make a Keeper do things, is not gonna do nothing. If you really need it from turn 1, then pay for it. I see more worth in bringing more troops and summoning her turn 2 or 3. Im not saying she doesnt do all of that you said.

I just realize that you can do a twin Keepers build and they can do Excess of Violence between themselfs, so they become better if taken in pairs

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Enoby, @Overread basically already gave my reasons for taking a 10 block. It's a good target for the KoS command and provides the list with something that can smash into the enemy and perhaps hope to survive a turn or two. It's all about buying time for the summoning to kick in and take over the game.

Also @Yoid The main reason for taking a Keeper is not damage but utility. If it does some damage that's a nice bonus, but what you really want him for is the following:

  • Scoring on objectives that give bonuses for behemoths and/or require leaders for capping
  • Pinning the enemy. You want to look for big units that you can clip and then prevent from piling in. You can prevent the enemy from retreating with the godseeker artefact, and if needed you can retreat and charge and hit a different target with the proper command ability.

When summoning you have the same dilemma -- a keeper or 30 Daemonettes. I think that most of the time you will want the Daemonettes and completely agree that they are more efficient than a keeper. I'd rather start with the keeper and summon the Daemonettes, however, as the keeper is basically the best chassis for the artefact and command ability, best hero for keeping up with slickblades,  and most survivable leader/behemoth for turn 1 scoring.

____________________________________________________

 

As an aside, are there any reasonable alternative sculpts for Daemonettes? The current GW models are among my least favorite kits in the game, and I also dislike the Raging Heroes and Ghamak alternatives, which are just pinup babes with claws. The Raging Heroes Flesh Eaters and Death Dancers are kinda OK. The Flesh Eaters have some cenobite flavor to them and the Death Dancers at least have incredibly weird and dynamic posing to make up for their oversexualization. I still don't love any of these options.

No doubt there are some good conversion options in the GW range, but I wonder what else is out there from non-GW sources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, docofallplagues said:

So while we can probably agree slaangor are underwhelming I haven't seen anyone talk about their horde mulch ability. Might this alone make them worth considering even as just a distraction carnifex since no one will want them alive at the end of the combat phase?

Its only a distraction to people who don't read the ability. It's like the evocators ability where the dice rolled is dependent on the number of slaangor. If they were horde busters with how people think it's read, they would be well worth their points.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, for funsies and because I'm a casual player playing mostly for looks, here's a list I came up with that I think is extremely exciting

 

Godseekers

Glutos Orscollion

-Dark Delusions

Keeper of Secrets

-Progeny of Damnation

Sigvald

Lord of Pain - General

-Speed-Chaser

-Girdle of the Realm-racer

 

Myrmidesh x10

Myrmidesh x5

Myrmidesh x5

 

Supreme Sybarites

Chronomatic Cogs

 

Comes out to 1980 and seems extremely funny to me

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Carnith said:

Its only a distraction to people who don't read the ability. It's like the evocators ability where the dice rolled is dependent on the number of slaangor. If they were horde busters with how people think it's read, they would be well worth their points.

You're officially liscensed to call me an idiot. Now I'm even more disappointed as a primary BoC player...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Carnith said:

I wish the lord of pain could keep up with them seekers. Really feeling the lack of lord on seeker. 

Yeah the Lord of Pain is not a great fit in many instances. I've had the model for a few months and only fielded him once. He'll probably do fine in Symbaresh/Myrmidesh-heavy lists but his lack of mobility really hurts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BaronBanana said:

Question for the Chaos/Slaanesh vets - I know Varanguard are extremely overpriced for what they are, how do you feel they fit the Slaanesh Godseekers theme?  What would you arm them with?

Depends if you want them horde-blending or hero-hunting. Ensorcelled weapons for the former and daemonforged blades for the latter. Their efficiency falls off outside of StD because they lose access to the circles (specifically the +1 damage on the charge circle). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Depends if you want them horde-blending or hero-hunting. Ensorcelled weapons for the former and daemonforged blades for the latter. Their efficiency falls off outside of StD because they lose access to the circles (specifically the +1 damage on the charge circle). 

That's fair.  I have a large amount of StD that I'm trying to find use for in this new book.  Chaos Knights with Karkadrak Lord in Godseekers seems like a good fit, maybe even Gorebeast Chariots

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:

  I have a large amount of StD that I'm trying to find use for in this new book. 

I really wish we could come up with a better acronym for S2D that StD so I wouldn't have to read this kind of awkward statements 😂

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was talking with friends and looking for dmg potential and sinergies, and I ended playing with stathammer. The points of the unit are on (), but some of them (the ones that move 6-8") have some support (to help a bit their numbers). A bit strange that Lord of Pain and the Shardspeaker have low range support... 

Slaanesh_DmgOutput.jpg.95d2108cc1610c403fa669351414f8a0.jpg

 

Edited: The previous pic was vs rerolls saves. Thanks to @umpac and @Gistradagis

Edited by Beliman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just thinking, I've heard people complain about the lack of a mounted Lord of Pain type hero to support slickblade seekers, maybe a Slaanesh Daemon Prince would work. 12" fly so they can sort of keep up, the +1 to hit command ability isn't as good as a Keeper but they are 120 points cheaper. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I was talking with friends and looking for dmg potential and sinergies, and I ended playing with stathammer.

Your math on the Slickblades is wrong, you must've forgotten something (champion, mount attacks, MW in addition, exploding hits). They should do 10.93 to 4+ .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...