Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, umpac said: Yeah unless you REALLY want that +CP, artifact and fewer drops you are just way better off taking more archers than spending 160 on a battalion and another 450 in character taxes, I was playing around with it trying to make a list I like but in order to make decent use of the bonus shooting at least one unit has to be 33 and by then you're battalion is up to 1410 pts and even with only the minimum units its 1090. Absolutely. I'm beginning to think the new battalions are sort of points traps. The hero tax in Carnival is awful, having to charge in Nobles (and the fact both units are kinda worse than just bringing Chaos Warriors), and the cost of so many Seekers in Knights. I think I'll start to think lists with no battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Gistradagis said: Absolutely. I'm beginning to think the new battalions are sort of points traps. The hero tax in Carnival is awful, having to charge in Nobles (and the fact both units are kinda worse than just bringing Chaos Warriors), and the cost of so many Seekers in Knights. I think I'll start to think lists with no battalions. I think there are some tricks to be had in our old seeker battalion with our new seekers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Old seeker battalion is going to be good for seeker heavy lists. The 6" pile in is good. I was thinking about what to do with Dark Carnival. Maybe Lurid Haze? So the base of this list would be LoP shard speaker shard speaker Archers Archers Bigger blob of archers (22-33) Battalion The archers outflank due to Lurid Haze can you use them to double shoot and harass. This is atleast 1250 if you go 22 archers. But thats still over 100 bow shots a turn. Also thinking old battalions, since we aren't moving towards only heroes, we could think about normie exalted chariots in epicurean revellers with some daemonettes. Exalted chariots still have a lot of attacks, and with a keeper with them, them double pilling in is a fair bit chance of mortal wounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Carnith said: Old seeker battalion is going to be good for seeker heavy lists. The 6" pile in is good. I was thinking about what to do with Dark Carnival. Maybe Lurid Haze? So the base of this list would be LoP shard speaker shard speaker Archers Archers Bigger blob of archers (22-33) Battalion The archers outflank due to Lurid Haze can you use them to double shoot and harass. This is atleast 1250 if you go 22 archers. But thats still over 100 bow shots a turn. Also thinking old battalions, since we aren't moving towards only heroes, we could think about normie exalted chariots in epicurean revellers with some daemonettes. Exalted chariots still have a lot of attacks, and with a keeper with them, them double pilling in is a fair bit chance of mortal wounds. I think our archers are gonna be pretty good, it's just finding the best way to use them. Yeah, not as good as mortal wounds on a 5+, but a lot healthier for the game and works better in our allegiance I'd like to try the revellers again; now we can actually use our normal units like normal units, I think we have a lot more potential to explore the strengths of previously unused warscrolls. I think fiends could find a way to work; I remember using them successfully before pre battletome, and they've returned to that points cost again and are technically better than they were then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Enoby said: I think our archers are gonna be pretty good, it's just finding the best way to use them. Yeah, not as good as mortal wounds on a 5+, but a lot healthier for the game and works better in our allegiance I'd like to try the revellers again; now we can actually use our normal units like normal units, I think we have a lot more potential to explore the strengths of previously unused warscrolls. I think fiends could find a way to work; I remember using them successfully before pre battletome, and they've returned to that points cost again and are technically better than they were then Fiends with Glutos perhaps, two-dipping the minus to hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Archers brings a whole new game to Slaanesh that really wasn't there before - that of ranged attack. That we get not only archers but also mounted archers is a big thing. It presents a lot of new ways to play the army in a major or supporting fashion and allows Slaanesh to project a threat over an area without having to commit to close combat the entire time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Fiends still have 20 points to go until their pre-battletome cost, but if everything is 20 points extra cause of nu-summoning then they are probably where they will be at. It'll be hard to take old hellstriders in our lists I think. they just don't chaff as well as you'd want and don't do any damage. If they were 2 attacks with their weapon maybe. but spending 140 points on 15 attacks is eh. Also, while I'm still confused on lack of special rule for the twin soul whip, blissbarb seekers have poisoned weapons due to the seeker venom... why not give seekers mw on 6's to wound since it is literally licking them with their poisoned tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, Carnith said: Fiends still have 20 points to go until their pre-battletome cost, but if everything is 20 points extra cause of nu-summoning then they are probably where they will be at. It'll be hard to take old hellstriders in our lists I think. they just don't chaff as well as you'd want and don't do any damage. If they were 2 attacks with their weapon maybe. but spending 140 points on 15 attacks is eh. Also, while I'm still confused on lack of special rule for the twin soul whip, blissbarb seekers have poisoned weapons due to the seeker venom... why not give seekers mw on 6's to wound since it is literally licking them with their poisoned tongue. Were fiends 160 before? I thought they started at 180, but it's been a while I agree about Hellstriders - they've only ever found a place in our army as chaff, and it seems GW hates giving them good rules. The best they've been is at 100pts as battleline tax unfortunately Some special rules would have been nice, but I've noticed a slight shift towards fewer special rules in AoS. Such as a lot of Khorne and Ironjawz units losing their special bonuses on some models. I assume it's to try and help balance them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Now that I've seen everything, I'm all in on seeker cavalcade with a mix of our new seeker types. I've played 2 years of daughters and that 6 inch activation on sisters of slaughter may be my favorite bit of shenanigans in this game. Having nearly a whole army of it is very enticing, especially considering the pure speed on the base movement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Graywater said: Now that I've seen everything, I'm all in on seeker cavalcade with a mix of our new seeker types. I've played 2 years of daughters and that 6 inch activation on sisters of slaughter may be my favorite bit of shenanigans in this game. Having nearly a whole army of it is very enticing, especially considering the pure speed on the base movement. I think this is what I'm super excited for too; for those who played Slaanesh pre-battletome, we had a command trait that let our general pile in from 6". It felt really acrobatic to use, with a Keeper (the lovable little pointing scrawny daemons they were at the time) dancing from unit to unit, retreating, running, and piling in ensuring it was out of combat and using sacrificial troops to ensure it didn't get scratch. I'm really excited to have this option again on something that isn't meant to charge or isn't Hellstriders (because, let's be honest, Hellstriders are still a bit lost - but they always have been). I can see myself going pretty heavy on these seekers, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Enoby said: I think this is what I'm super excited for too; for those who played Slaanesh pre-battletome, we had a command trait that let our general pile in from 6". It felt really acrobatic to use, with a Keeper (the lovable little pointing scrawny daemons they were at the time) dancing from unit to unit, retreating, running, and piling in ensuring it was out of combat and using sacrificial troops to ensure it didn't get scratch. I'm really excited to have this option again on something that isn't meant to charge or isn't Hellstriders (because, let's be honest, Hellstriders are still a bit lost - but they always have been). I can see myself going pretty heavy on these seekers, That's the kind of list I'm checking. Probably with both Slickblade Seekers and Blissbarb Seekers. Making full use of putting the first at 6" to activate them to fight one unit at a time, while the second keeps its distance and fishes for mortal wounds. Not sure about heroes though. Thinking a Keeper, perhaps Glutos (wish Sigvald was a better fit for lists). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gistradagis said: That's the kind of list I'm checking. Probably with both Slickblade Seekers and Blissbarb Seekers. Making full use of putting the first at 6" to activate them to fight one unit at a time, while the second keeps its distance and fishes for mortal wounds. Not sure about heroes though. Thinking a Keeper, perhaps Glutos (wish Sigvald was a better fit So my first list will probably try MSU with 3x5 blissbarb seekers, 2x5 slickblades, and a unit of 10. Id love to add a lord of pain and the shardspeaker, but theyre probably too slow to adequately support this style of list. Same for glutos. A keeper seems the first choice to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Graywater said: So my first list will probably try MSU with 3x5 blissbarb seekers, 2x5 slickblades, and a unit of 10. Id love to add a lord of pain and the shardspeaker, but theyre probably too slow to adequately support this style of list. Same for glutos. A keeper seems the first choice to me. A unit of 10 what. Vanilla Seekers? Or you mean 10 Slickblades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gistradagis said: A unit of 10 what. Vanilla Seekers? Or you mean 10 Slickblades? Yeah 10 slickblades. Vanilla seekers are... just fast. Which isn't something the other types struggle with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Graywater said: Yeah 10 slickblades. Vanilla seekers are... just fast. Which isn't something the other types struggle with. Yeah, it's why I was curious. While relatively cheap, I don't see much reason to take vanilla seekers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I know they don't benefit much from allegiance abilities, but I do think chaos warriors may be really really good in this army as the perfect screen. Yeah, they won't do any damage (when have they ever?) but they now generate DP and are very cheap while still being tanky. We melt pretty quickly, so having a 90pt cheap battleline unit to generate DP for us and protect our important models could be a really nice niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Enoby said: I know they don't benefit much from allegiance abilities, but I do think chaos warriors may be really really good in this army as the perfect screen. Yeah, they won't do any damage (when have they ever?) but they now generate DP and are very cheap while still being tanky. We melt pretty quickly, so having a 90pt cheap battleline unit to generate DP for us and protect our important models could be a really nice niche. It's definitely what I'm seeing everywhere. People are kinda disappointed in both the Myrmidesh and Symbaresh, so cheap Chaos Warriors can be good for screens and DPs. Especially if you want to play an archers-heavy list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gistradagis said: It's definitely what I'm seeing everywhere. People are kinda disappointed in both the Myrmidesh and Symbaresh, so cheap Chaos Warriors can be good for screens and DPs. Especially if you want to play an archers-heavy list. I'm still gonna be using Myrmidesh and Symbaresh (love the models too much), but I think Chaos Warriors beat them as a screening unit - especially as a sacrificial one. That said, if Myrmidesh and Symbaresh get a points drop (if we need one), they are going to be fantastic. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I feel that Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos still have a place in our army. A lot of our models are very expensive atm, but they're the only ones that benefit from Euphoric killers. I think that gives our allies the role of cheap non-elites for screening and back capping objectives (someone needs to stand on the objective in home turf or acting as chaff to throw into the opponent's face and disrupt their first turn) whereas our key units have more specified roles that are there to carry the army. Edited February 13, 2021 by Enoby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Enoby said: I'm still gonna be using Myrmidesh and Symbaresh (love the models too much), but I think Chaos Warriors beat them as a screening unit - especially as a sacrificial one. That said, if Myrmidesh and Symbaresh get a points drop (if we need one), they are going to be fantastic. I'd say the mortals definitely need one. The real question is, will we get it? (I don't think so, either due to a general points increase with AoS 3 or due to our strong summoning) You can always get the models and play them as Chaos Warriors 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Gistradagis said: I'd say the mortals definitely need one. The real question is, will we get it? (I don't think so, either due to a general points increase with AoS 3 or due to our strong summoning) If we end up struggling, I can see some points drops coming our way We have the advantage of being shiny new models so GW pays attention to us, unlike poor Beasts of Chaos 2 minutes ago, Gistradagis said: You can always get the models and play them as Chaos Warriors 😛 Exactly - and twinsouls make good chosen too I think we'll find a place for them in this army regardless of proxying - I'd really like to play them first as it's all well and good maths hammering, but it's harder to determine when we're against something that's fighting back. I think that Twinsouls and a Lord of Pain are going to be really good damage wise and defensively, especially as most of them can get in. The Shardspeaker is also a really nice tool that I can imagine will see play in nearly all lists. Her spell is great and her ability to mark a unit for death is nice too. She's also weirdly good in combat which is... well, it's nice if it happens and Rita Repulsa wants to kick some ass 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I can easily seeing a lot of mortals come down 10-20 points in time. Just going to be rough waiting for the next faq since I doubt we are getting anything in ghb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Well, I made a first list with Seekers, then remembered that they are not battleline and, consequently, my list was super duper illegal . I'm gonna see if I can try this list. It's 1970 points, and might run it in Godseekers. Quote Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous Hand, General) Sigvald The Contorted Epitome Seeker Cavalcade Slickblade Seekers x5 Slickblade Seekers x5 Blissbarb Seekers x5 Daemonettes x10 Daemonettes x10 Blissbarb Archers x11 Geminids of Uhl-Gysh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 So thinking of the 40 archer list. Keeper of secrets General Lord of Pain 2 Shard Speakers 11 archers 11 archers 22 archers at this point there is 410 points left in the list. I'm thinking either 6 fiends + wheels of pain 10 slickblades or 10 twinsouls the twins leave 70 points in the list. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gistradagis Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Carnith said: So thinking of the 40 archer list. Keeper of secrets General Lord of Pain 2 Shard Speakers 11 archers 11 archers 22 archers at this point there is 410 points left in the list. I'm thinking either 6 fiends + wheels of pain 10 slickblades or 10 twinsouls the twins leave 70 points in the list. Thoughts? You probably want some melee in there, and with those choices I'd say Slickblades over Twinsouls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I wish the lord of pain could keep up with them seekers. Really feeling the lack of lord on seeker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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