AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Gistradagis]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Unless I missed something, he also does not get a command ability or benefit other units in any other way. Which, personally, I am fine with. You don't usually want named characters as your general anyway. Sigvald's rules make him feel more like a selfish duellist type, who shows up to join your Slaanesh army as he pleases, does his own thing, and then leaves whenever he's had enough. Which I really think is a great role for him.

I agree, which is why I'm surprised he doesn't get Locus, which is a self-serving ability (it's now 1" only, and stops pile-in, meaning it's for the benefit on the hero who charged mostly, avoiding being surrounded) and would have fit Sigvald so well.

To be fair, while I get not doing many Skragrott-like characters where you want a named character to be general (since that makes command traits useless), I'm hoping that at least we get a battalion for Sigvald + mortal units (like Myrmidons) where he gives them some sort of buff or benefit for following him into battle (or a buff for himself!). Mostly cuz my only gripe will be Sigvald being expensive in points and hard to argue including in a list if he does basically nothing for you other than being a beatstick.

[Ragest]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I also like that it's really thematic, because it encourages Slaanesh players to sadistically keep opponents alive and while killing them slowly over several turns.

 

Do we know the reach of their ranged attack? Althought even if it's 9", they have a threat range of, like, 24" or so easily.

18"

[Gistradagis]

13 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Leaks for the mounted archers are out:

3 shots each, 3s, 4s -1 rend 1 damage, can run and shoot, mortal wounds on 6s to shoot, move 14, 4 wounds, 5+ save, 6 bravery 

Mortal wounds on 6s to wound, btw.

[Yokai]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I also like that it's really thematic, because it encourages Slaanesh players to sadistically keep opponents alive and while killing them slowly over several turns.

 

Do we know the reach of their ranged attack? Althought even if it's 9", they have a threat range of, like, 24" or so easily.

18", afaik. Tasty!

[CeleFAZE]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I also like that it's really thematic, because it encourages Slaanesh players to sadistically keep opponents alive and while killing them slowly over several turns.

 

Do we know the reach of their ranged attack? Althought even if it's 9", they have a threat range of, like, 24" or so easily.

18" range. The bows are 4+/4+ however, though everything else is correct.  The mounts get 2 attacks, no rend, 3+/3+ 1 dmg. Person on the mount has a single close combat attack at no rend, 1 damage, 4+/4+.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Mostly cuz my only gripe will be Sigvald being expensive in points and hard to argue including in a list if he does basically nothing for you other than being a beatstick.

I think points will probably make or break him, since he does not seem to have any special synergies from what we know right now. But that does not have to be bad, since it also means that he does not require any support. Sub 200 points he should be playable.

Comparing him to other beatstick characters, I think he's definitely much better than Kurdoss because of his mobility. I think he's about as good as the Light of Eltharion.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think points will probably make or break him, since he does not seem to have any special synergies from what we know right now. But that does not have to be bad, since it also means that he does not require any of support. Sub 200 points he should be playable.

Comparing him to other beatstick characters, I think he's definitely much better than Kurdoss because of his mobility. I think he's about as good as the Light of Eltharion.

I've seen 260 thrown around, which is a little more than Eltharion but he's a little better imo. I think it's a good price for him - not an auto take, but unlike Eltharion he benefits from his own allegiance abilities and has much better protection against magic.

[Jaskier]

So if the mounted Blissbarbs have 4 Wounds 5+ save, that means the Slickblades will probably be 4 wounds 4+ save. That's tougher and faster than a Chaos Knight (potentially without the mortal wound protection) with a harder-hitting mount to boot, to say nothing of the rider; not bad at all! 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

So if the mounted Blissbarbs have 4 Wounds 5+ save, that means the Slickblades will probably be 4 wounds 4+ save. That's tougher and faster than a Chaos Knight (potentially without the mortal wound protection) with a harder-hitting mount to boot, to say nothing of the rider; not bad at all! 

This is speculation going off the other warscroll, but if they get 14" movement and run and charge at +1 to both, that gives you a threat range of 26" inches for basically free. Alpha strike capability that does not rely on command points is pretty strong.

[Klamm]

I like the smaller locus disparity between keepers and regular heroes, makes the little ones feel more useful. Saddened if not surprised that allegiance abilities has shifted into hedonite-only, since I wanna run Slaves units like Daemon Princes and Chaos Warriors. On the plus side, my Chaos Warriors look like a lot Painbringers already so I'll probably run them as that. 

Spoiler

I've only seen a couple of snippets, am I right in saying depravity points can only be spent on summoning?

I was hoping for a system where you can choose to spend them on bonuses instead, I don't love being forced into a summoning playstyle (partly out of preference for mortals, partly coz it means you have to paint more units on top of the list). I know Khorne isn't considered top table competitive, but I like the flexibility you get with Blood Tithe.

[CeleFAZE]

The blissbarb seekers seem like they'd be decent support hero killers.

On average they do about 5 wounds with 1-2 of them mortals. Excellent way to snipe off a foot hero in turn 1 before they get a chance to contribute.

[CeleFAZE]

2 minutes ago, Klamm said:

I like the smaller locus disparity between keepers and regular heroes, makes the little ones feel more useful. Saddened if not surprised that allegiance abilities has shifted into hedonite-only, since I wanna run Slaves units like Daemon Princes and Chaos Warriors. On the plus side, my Chaos Warriors look like a lot Painbringers already so I'll probably run them as that. 

  Hide contents

I've only seen a couple of snippets, am I right in saying depravity points can only be spent on summoning?

I was hoping for a system where you can choose to spend them on bonuses instead, I don't love being forced into a summoning playstyle (partly out of preference for mortals, partly coz it means you have to paint more units on top of the list). I know Khorne isn't considered top table competitive, but I like the flexibility you get with Blood Tithe.

The other thing to keep in mind with the locus is that only daemon hedonite heroes have access to it, which makes mortal-only armies less appealing for me.

For mortal heroes at most I see myself running a shardspeaker and possibly a lord of pain if myrmadesh or symbaresh turn out to be any good.

[Klamm]

Just now, CeleFAZE said:

The other thing to keep in mind with the locus is that only daemon hedonite heroes have access to it, which makes mortal-only armies less appealing for me.

 

huh I just assumed they changed it to hedonites, never mind. Well I'll be doing majority mortal armies either way lol

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Klamm said:

huh I just assumed they changed it to hedonites, never mind. Well I'll be doing majority mortal armies either way lol

Yeah I'm in the same boat - though I don't think the locus is strong enough to necessitate daemons, it's more of a nice bonus if you want them and offers up a lot strategically without it being massively unfun. 

I do wonder if the contorted epitome has changed significantly 

[JonnyTheKing]

48 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I also like that it's really thematic, because it encourages Slaanesh players to sadistically keep opponents alive and while killing them slowly over several turns.

 

Do we know the reach of their ranged attack? Althought even if it's 9", they have a threat range of, like, 24" or so easily.

18 inch 

[SorryLizard]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Yeah I'm in the same boat - though I don't think the locus is strong enough to necessitate daemons, it's more of a nice bonus if you want them and offers up a lot strategically without it being massively unfun. 

I do wonder if the contorted epitome has changed significantly 

Stopping pile in moves is massively powerful. Clip the end of a big enemy unit and it's now locked in place, barely able to get attacks into you and unable to move unless it falls back. With speedy heroes or run+charge abilities you should be able to get into position to clip exactly where you want to hold up an entire battleline for a turn which can be a lot of points from objectives.

[Enoby]

Just now, SorryLizard said:

Stopping pile in moves is massively powerful. Clip the end of a big enemy unit and it's now locked in place, barely able to get attacks into you and unable to move unless it falls back. With speedy heroes or run+charge abilities you should be able to get into position to clip exactly where you want to hold up an entire battleline for a turn which can be a lot of points from objectives.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to underplay its strength, but rather I don't think it's an absolute must take and blows all other options out of the water. The Masque has (and had) a similar-ish use last battletome where she could force something to have to pile towards her rather than where it wanted to go. Very strong and tricky, but in casual games especially, not needed as piling in isn't used efficiently anyway, and in competitive games it's more of a test of skill (which imo is better than the old version which just let you go ham on a unit).

[Marcvs]

2 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Stopping pile in moves is massively powerful. Clip the end of a big enemy unit and it's now locked in place, barely able to get attacks into you and unable to move unless it falls back. With speedy heroes or run+charge abilities you should be able to get into position to clip exactly where you want to hold up an entire battleline for a turn which can be a lot of points from objectives.

this also synergise well with the new depravity generation, as the ideal scenario is a prolonged fight which spills in the next turn(s)

[Ragest]

4 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Stopping pile in moves is massively powerful. Clip the end of a big enemy unit and it's now locked in place, barely able to get attacks into you and unable to move unless it falls back. With speedy heroes or run+charge abilities you should be able to get into position to clip exactly where you want to hold up an entire battleline for a turn which can be a lot of points from objectives.

Is powerful? Yes.

Is less powerful than before? Yes.

And it's not auto, you have to roll a dice.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Ragest

[Enoby]

I think it's safe to say, our allegiance abilities have definitely become more active and require more decision making

[SorryLizard]

Something like the Emerald Lifeswarm might be handy to bring along. Keep your and your enemy's units alive for just that tiny bit longer to get another few Depravity.

[CeleFAZE]

Just now, SorryLizard said:

Something like the Emerald Lifeswarm might be handy to bring along. Keep your and your enemy's units alive for just that tiny bit longer to get another few Depravity.

Oooh, I hadn't considered an offensive use of the lifeswarm.

[Marcvs]

Just now, Enoby said:

I think it's safe to say, our allegiance abilities have definitely become more active and require more decision making

As someone who only sees Slaanesh "from the other side of the table" I also like the new mechanic. It's now much more interactive and provides real choices Before, killing a Keeper meant that amount of Depravity whatever your did, now it's a calculation on whether you can kill him in one go, you want to minimise your engagements and only go in when you can kill stuff in one go etc. It is also a clear counter to strategies based on big tanky and not very killy blocks of stuff.

[Enoby]

I think it's also great as there isn't a clear cut right and wrong about the best build for summoning. 

Take MSU and you can split attacks more easily to damage more units, and they have more chance to take damage each, but they also have a much greater chance of being wiped off the board for 0 points if your opponent focus fires. And you probably won't have many/any left in later turns.  

Take a big tanky unit and they  can last longer or more consistent points, and will have a much smaller chance to be wiped off the board. But they will probably only go into one unit at a time 

[SorryLizard]

And if Depravity is only used for summoning it's conveniently something you can ignore entirely if you're only interested in mortals. Same with the Locus. Remove all of that additional 'rules weight' to think about.