Mercenaries!!!

[Wraith01]

How come no one is talking about the new Mercenary system they mention in the last preview!

That's a game changer! We aren't limited to our Grand Alliance for allies anymore...

Can't wait to learn more about it.

[Slayerofmen]

Sounds like a really bad idea for game balance if im honest

[Mayple]

I love it I'm sure it'll have it's own internal limitations, but more freedom to customise is always something I'll be hyped about. 

[Neffelo]

I think this is the wrong direction. AoS right now is much better balanced than 40k. Going down this path is a poor choice, and has the potential to ruin immersion, balance, and the style that AoS has going for it. 

[EMMachine]

If you are playing grand Alliances you can basicly play merceneries right know, because the allyrules in the core rules tells us that they could Come from a different grandalliance (after grand alliance doesn't have restriction which faction they can ally).

So this "new feature" is for specific allegiances that are more restricted right now.

[Acid_Nine]

Honestly I would have to see. Could be a fun way of making chaos dwarfs or orc conversions  usable,  but would have to see.

[novakai]

seem like a divisive topic right now, I think the fear of it bringing the 40k soup problem into AoS is justified but a bit overblown until we know more detail. 

I am a bit interested in how they implemented it but it can easily lead to terrible balancing  problem or just an afterthought feature that no one cares about.

[Chikout]

There are a lot of strong reactions to this which is a little surprising to me. We already know it is not going to be any unit in any army.

“With Forbidden Power, you’ll be able to recruit renowned sell-swords to your cause regardless of Grand Alliance.”

Renowned sell-swords is the key phrase. I remember when the first fyreslayers book came out, a lot of people wanted it to be a book that could be in any grand alliance. This is essentially that. 

In terms of the lore the only units so far that fit this bill are fyreslayers, ogres and the endless spell hunting wizards mentioned in the Malign sorcery book. I am sure there will be a few more but it will  be a limited pool.

You are not going to see a GKOT in a DoK army for example.

Purely in terms of matched play, allies are already at a disadvantage as they don’t benefit from allegiance abilities. I don’t see this change affecting the structure of any of the top lists. They may help some of the weaker armies though. 

So long as it fits the existing lore, I think this is a positive change. 

[Hideaki]

There is not much discussion because we don't really know anything. But it looks like only some factions will be able to do this.

I found this quote also interestin:

"So, for example, you could have a Chaos army and enlist some of the notoriously ur-gold hungry warriors of the Greyfyrd lodge"

They specify a lodge which makes me believe that only some sub-factions will be able to do this but maybe I'm reading too much into this.

[Aeryenn]

I always preffered mono-race/faction armies so this is even worse than the allies system for me. 

[Greyshadow]

I’m all for if it if implemented well. You could use it to make some really cool themed forces. I’d love to see Stormcast with Orruk mercs sort of the like what happened in Fury of Gork.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Hideaki said:

There is not much discussion because we don't really know anything. But it looks like only some factions will be able to do this.

I found this quote also interestin:

"So, for example, you could have a Chaos army and enlist some of the notoriously ur-gold hungry warriors of the Greyfyrd lodge"

They specify a lodge which makes me believe that only some sub-factions will be able to do this but maybe I'm reading too much into this.

The new iconic skaven dwarf army, fearful and unrealistic as hell 😂

Edited May 6, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Dr Ben]

2 hours ago, Hideaki said:

There is not much discussion because we don't really know anything. But it looks like only some factions will be able to do this.

I found this quote also interestin:

"So, for example, you could have a Chaos army and enlist some of the notoriously ur-gold hungry warriors of the Greyfyrd lodge"

They specify a lodge which makes me believe that only some sub-factions will be able to do this but maybe I'm reading too much into this.

Yeah, I wouldn't read much into it until we know more concrete details. When describing new releases they have a tendency to give them a bit of hyperbole and narrative flavour that doesn't necessarily reflect the rules. Remember packs of magmadroths?

Broadly speaking I think the concerns about 40k style soup lists hinge on whether the mercenaries can keep/combine allegiance abilities. If not I don't think it will complicate things much more than allies within allegiances already do for order and chaos. It would probably have a bigger impact on destruction/death who have fewer ally options.

I don't play 40k,so I am probably totally wrong, but it seems from the outside like the soup problem has a lot to do with being able use any stratagems from any detachments you bring. Allegiance and command abilities are the AOS equivalents roughly speaking. Command abilities are relatively limited by key words and availability (for most factions). Mixed allegiance abilities would be extremely complicated to implement. add a keeper of secrets to FEC and summon yourself a whole new army of extra slaanesh allies anybody? 

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The new iconic skaven dwarf army, fearful and unrealistic as hell 😂

I hope they have intelligent absolute no-no pairings in this respect, your example being one of them.

And as a khorne player I hope khorne can turn on its mercenaries.

You'd have to be nuts to sell yourself or ally with a Khorne army anyway as you'll be next on the list after the main battle's won.... like we were ever going to let you walk away!

 

We don't know enough yet to get fearful at this point in time.

Perhaps, just perhaps we're getting specific mercenary warbands- AoS's nod to Dogs of War as @Chikout mentioned above

Edited May 6, 2019 by Kaleb Daark

[InSaint]

Hurray, I guess I can now team up Morathi, Alarielle, Olynder and Neferata. lol

[Cambot1231]

 I think this developement has a potential to rock the otherwise fairly balanced place we are at  in AoS.  Also more rules bloat is not needed.

[Kaleb Daark]

Just now, Cambot1231 said:

 I think this developement has a potential to rock the otherwise fairly balanced place we are at  in AoS.  Also more rules bloat is not needed.

I agree about the rules bloat.

I'm keeping faith that it's going to be specific mercenary warbands rather than do what you like, and those warbands will hopefully have conditions of who they will NOT sell themselves to.

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, InSaint said:

Hurray, I guess I can now team up Morathi, Alarielle, Olynder and Neferata. lol

You forgot Archaon and Nagash 

[Greyshadow]

As mentioned earlier, the preview talked about a specific mercenary force in the lore being available as mercenaries. In books like the Silver Shard you saw Chaos armies that were relatively disconnected and isolated from the faction. Darkoath and the Warcry war bands could be used to represent such independent factions who might act as mercenaries. I’d be all for something like that. There is no suggestion that you can take Archaon as a merc for Hammers of Sigmar or other such ridiculousness.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Greyshadow

[Silchas_Ruin]

If its a list of units or small battalions that are mercenaries and can be hired I'm fine with it. If its  more i start having issues.  Greyfyrd Lodge so you can pick anything Fyreslayer would be a no. But if its 10 of a named  unit with a attached hero, that I can work with and it would be easier to balance if needed.

[Kaleb Daark]

the more I read what little there is, the more I just think/ hope its going to be set mercenary units.  Maybe a combination of dogs of war and regiments of renown of old, with their own lore and background.

if that's the case, could I have the disciples of the red redemption  or Nightmare legion please GW

[SwampHeart]

I stopped playing 40k because of soup, I literally set aside thousands of points of painted miniatures because of the direction the game took with allowing armies to be composed of units from different forces. It leads to a blander game with less variety especially at competitive levels so I desperately hope that this mercenaries thing is:

-Not matched play legal at all (best possible outcome)
-Very specifically designed mercenary units that are actually balanced for the armies they can slot in to (I have little faith after the most recent spate of Tomes that GW can balance these properly)
-If either of the above aren't true then I hope tournaments approach them the same way they approach realms and simply don't include them

I try not to be a chicken little but the recent direction that AoS has taken (see Skaven, FEC, and how GW handled DoK in the latest 'big' FAQ) has given me little reason to think this is going to be a good addition to the game. I hope I'm proven wrong and will gladly own it if I am. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by SwampHeart

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

I'm expecting something like: picking 1-2 units of specific factions, that also take up allies points. A unit and a buff hero. It will most definitely be even more restricted than allies.

-Fyreslayers

-Kharadrons

-Ogres

-Scourge Privateers

-Swifthawk Agents (at a stretch)

-Freeguild (possibly, especially if it's Freeguild militia men)

-Trolls (because anyone can bribe a troll)

-Anything  chaos marauder-y

Edited May 6, 2019 by Knight Scáthach of Fimm

[sal4m4nd3r]

My first impression is I hate this, and dont want this ANYWHERE NEAR matched play. If this becomes a thing that could push me back to 40k. If this is strictly narrative then I coulndnt care any less. I'm sure TOs will just nip this right in the bud so I dont have to worry since any game I play is basically tournament prep anyways so I'll just avoid any event that runs this. 

[Overread]

One thing to remember is that it might well be something purely tied into the campaign system for Forbidden Powers. Much like Malign Portents had its own games and structure this might be how they will do it with mercenaries. 

So whilst it might break balance it might also only have a short term effect on teh game and little to no impact to matched play in general outside of events held for Forbidden Powers. 

 

 

I think that would be the best way for it to run. That way GW and gamers can play around with it, but not have it affect the game long term and thus destroy balance and also themes of armies. Because, lets face it, once you get to "souped" armies the whole concept of fielding faction armies goes out the window as does a significant portion of balance.

 

I think this is just GW trying to do things that gamers do on their own in casual games anyway.