Destruction alliances / aligences

[Ron]

Hi, 

first time posting. Trying to get back into Warhammer, last edition I played was 8th so AoS 2.0 all new to me. 

The current models I own are ogres, savage orks, normal orks and moon clan Grots. 

I am confused as to how alliances and alliances work so I am struggling to form a list. 

I am under the impression that I can take any models as-long as I am aligned destruction, but I am able to become a specific alliance and get bonus Commands? I can also take 20% models from a different grand alliance or alliance without interfering with my alliance bonuses? 

Thanks in advance and sorry if this is posted in the wrong section 

[Overread]

Welcome to TGA forums!

When it comes to allies there's a few things to consider:

1) Most armies work by having a single Battletome which unites the army under a single block. This gives them warscrolls, but also allegiance abilities, spells, artifacts, army wide rules and subfaction groups within the army. Armies that don't yet have a battletome either have some elements in the generals handbook or they lack many things like spell lores and allegiance abilities and the like. 

2) Right now for Destruction only Gloomspite Gitz have a current Battletome, all the other armies either have an earlier tome (those mostly just had some lore and the warscrolls only) or nothing at all. It's one alliance that many are hoping will get some attention soon and GW are pushing out a lot of Tomes this year so its a good chance many will see a new updated 2.0 battletome.

3) With each Battletome there's a list in the back which notes which armies that faction can draw allies from. These allies will be within their grand alliance but not not be all the factions within the grand alliance. With these allies they can take 1/4 in points and model count worth within any army. So at 2K points they can take 400points worth of allies. 

4) Allies have some limits as they won't get allegiance abilities, spell lores, artifactes nor army wide abilities from the core army Battletome and they cannot bring their own with them. So mages allied from another faction will only have the spell lores on their actual warscroll to cast*

5) Now there are Grand Alliance Armies, which basically let you pick what you want from the whole Grand Alliance. However the books for the Grand Alliances are very dated now**. They don't work perfectly with AoS 2.0 and are considered quite underpowered. Good for flavour and fluff. 

6) In general you can't take allies from another Grand Alliance, however under the Grand Alliance armies rules you might be able to (I forget if its possible or not). If it is possible its very rare or only in narrative play where it sees any use. 

 

Note that when GW did their survey a week or two ago the Gutbusters and Beastclaw Raiders weren't listed as single armies and were instead listed under a single "ogors" tab; the same was true for the remaining ork factions too. So there's every chance that they will get combined Battletomes for both those blocks of army. Again there's no concrete information as yet on these, though with Destruction only having 1 2.0 battletome there's a very high chance they'll see attention soon. 

 

*They also retain the ability to cast any endless spells unique to their own faction, because faction specific endless spells are tied only to key words on the warscroll as a requirement to cast.
Note also that if you play with realm options enabled then any spell lore present from the realm the battle takes place in will be accessible to allied wizards. 

 

**AoS has basically had a lot of product focus shift since it was created. 2.0 rules are basically like a soft reboot to the whole game and are establishing it with a proper set of formal functional detailed rules for the game. This is why some factions have old rules or none and why its a bit messy at present 2019 is a bit year for AoS because GW is focusing on getting a lot of Battletomes out this year. 

[novakai]

37 minutes ago, Ron said:

Hi, 

first time posting. Trying to get back into Warhammer, last edition I played was 8th so AoS 2.0 all new to me. 

The current models I own are ogres, savage orks, normal orks and moon clan Grots. 

I am confused as to how alliances and alliances work so I am struggling to form a list. 

I am under the impression that I can take any models as-long as I am aligned destruction, but I am able to become a specific alliance and get bonus Commands? I can also take 20% models from a different grand alliance or alliance without interfering with my alliance bonuses? 

Thanks in advance and sorry if this is posted in the wrong section 

So if you use GA Destruction allegiance your allow to use any destruction models in your army as long as you have your minimum destruction battleline requirements for the amount of points your playing in (2 units for 1000 pt game, 3 for 2000 pt game). you get access to the generic destruction allegiance ability but you can't use specific allegiance abilities or command traits you get from army Battletomes unless specifically go for that army. Grand alliance army can't ally with other Grand Alliance.

I am not sure how big your collection of models are but if you want to play the game without wanting to buy anything yet, you can use GA Destruction and play a game with the majority of the models being usable and use the free war scroll and rules that are out there

if you want to go into a specific army you have Gloomspite Gitz which is where most of the Night goblin units are in right now and they have the most update Battletome

Bonesplitterz are the savage orruks and have a battletome currently but they may get an update soon so I probably hold off until they get an update.

i would also say the same for the Ogors as well.

[Ron]

Thanks guys! Really helpful information. 

So to get things straight if I use GA destruction I can use my butcher as a leader, some savage orks/iron guts and goblins for chaff? 

Were can I find the rules for GA Destruction? Also what ally’s can I take for GA destruction since I can technically take anything in that GA.

So as for the GH2018 goes it says for example Gutbusters can ally with Troghoths etc. Is that rule the 20% rule so you can keep your Gutbusters GA? 

Thanks 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ron

[novakai]

42 minutes ago, Ron said:

Thanks guys! Really helpful information. 

So to get things straight if I use GA destruction I can use my butcher as a leader, some savage orks/iron guts and goblins for chaff? 

Were can I find the rules for GA Destruction? Also what ally’s can I take for GA destruction since I can technically take anything in that GA.

 

3

yes as long as you meet the minimum battleline requirements (so if you are playing 2000 pts, you would need three separate units of either the goblins, savage orruks with shield, or ogors bull). There is no ally for GA armies since you can use everything within Destruction, the ally system is more of a balancing factor for specific armies. most people use GA destruction so they can use the majority of the Forgeworld monster which many cannot be allied in to any of the battletome army

the rules are in the GA alliance destruction book they release at the beginning of AoS but I don't suggest buying it since it is really outdated, you can find the rules online on some sites (1d4chan.org has the rules summarize on one page but the website a bit trolly and has some NSFW content just for warning purposes). 

the only thing you need to know is rampaging destroyer since it the only allegiance ability

Rampaging Destroyers: during the hero phase, Roll dice for your Destruction hero and general, add 2 for the general. On a 6 or more, a Destruction unit within 6" of the rolled for the model; it can immediately move 6" if more than 12" from the enemy, else pile in if within 3" of the enemy, else make a charge. If a unit is selected, it can't run for the rest of the turn.

42 minutes ago, Ron said:

 

So as for the GH2018 goes it says for example Gutbusters can ally with Troghoths etc. Is that rule the 20% rule so you can keep your Gutbusters GA? 

Thanks 

1

yes, though the ally system for destruction is  under question since the Troggoths, spiderfang and gargants where merge into Gloomspite Gitz, i believe you can still currently ally in Troggoths in a gutbuster army for the time being until GHB2019 comes and clarify the ally system for destruction

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by novakai

[Ron]

Thanks! You’ve really cleared that up for me. 

I’m starting at a 1000p game. 

So I would need 2 units right? Now what are battleline units? Are they basically like troops in 8th edition were you had to have 2-4 depending on the points? Is the information on the warscroll?

do all the battleline units have to be from the faction or can I have a mix of all three if I’m okaying GA Destruction? Just to be clear. 

Thanks. 

 

[PlasticCraic]

5 hours ago, Ron said:

Thanks guys! Really helpful information. 

So to get things straight if I use GA destruction I can use my butcher as a leader, some savage orks/iron guts and goblins for chaff? 

Were can I find the rules for GA Destruction? Also what ally’s can I take for GA destruction since I can technically take anything in that GA.

So as for the GH2018 goes it says for example Gutbusters can ally with Troghoths etc. Is that rule the 20% rule so you can keep your Gutbusters GA? 

Thanks 

So Ironguts are Gutbusters Battleline.  They are only Battleline when you run a Gutbusters Allegiance. which means all your army has to be Gutbusters except for up to 20% Allies which comes from a limited table (Allies have to have certain keywords, which you can find for each faction in the annual General's Handbook).  

At 2000 points, you will need 3x Battleline units, of which there are very few for Destruction:

- Stabbas and Shootas (Moonclan Grots, now found in the Gloomspite Gits book)

- Savage Orruks (only the basic ones, not the dual-wielding Morr Boys or Arrow Boys)

- Ogors (formerly known as Bulls, the basic Ogors and not the Ironguts or Leadbelchers)

- Orruks (Greenskinz, which have been deleted from the Webstore and radio silence about their future, if any)

- Gitmob Grots (also deleted from the Webstore, also radio silence about their future, if any)

So in your case, you will need at least 3 units of Savage Orruks and / or Night Goblins (now known as Stabbas / Shootas as per above). 

The warscrolls for Destruction armies (rules for each unit) are in the GA Destruction book as pointed out above, but they are also available for free in the app.  The app is excellent.

The Allegiance Abilities for GA Destruction can be found in the Core Book.  This is huge and unwieldy, as well as being expensive.  You will never want to take it with you because of its sheer bulk, and there is precious little content in the way of actual rules.  Really it's more of a collector's piece / coffee table book, and I would suggest finding the GA Destruction abilities from a friend's copy rather than buying the Core Book if you are just starting out.

[PlasticCraic]

2 minutes ago, Ron said:

Thanks! You’ve really cleared that up for me. 

I’m starting at a 1000p game. 

So I would need 2 units right? Now what are battleline units? Are they basically like troops in 8th edition were you had to have 2-4 depending on the points? Is the information on the warscroll?

do all the battleline units have to be from the faction or can I have a mix of all three if I’m okaying GA Destruction? Just to be clear. 

Thanks. 

 

Yep, it's minimum 2 Battleline at 1000 points

Battleline is a Battlefield Role.  There is a table (General's Handbook I think) that tells you min / max of each Battlefield Role.  e.g. I think Leaders are 1-4 (so you need minimum one), Battleline (essentially troops) are 2+, I think Warmachines are 0-2 and so on.

Warscroll Builder has these programmed into it and will help keep you on the right track:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

The rules for each unit are on its own Warscroll.

You can mix from all 3 factions if you are taking GA Destruction.  

Hope that helps!

[PlasticCraic]

@Ron can I ask who you intend to be playing against?  You might need a bit of coaching through the first few games, but it's worth it!

I would recommend having that conversation before the game with your opponent about you being new to the game etc.  Just because this is a game where you can have good and bad matchups etc...it's probably a better experience for both of you if you go into it knowing what kind of game you are looking for.

[Ron]

Hi guys. Answerd all of my questions so that’s awesome cheers. 

I’ll just be playing a old friend who quit same time as me he’s also just throwing together a army out of his stuff so will be fairish ha. Mainly in it for the fun.

I have made that list out of what I have laying around.

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Madcap Shaman (80)
Savage Big Boss (120)

Battleline
20 x Shootas (130)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
- Chompas
20 x Gitmob Grots (100)
- Spears & Shields

Units
3 x Ironguts (180)
3 x Leadbelchers (140)
5 x Grot Wolf Riders (90)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
1 x Grot Wolf Chariots (40)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 20
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

is that legal? Also what are command points? 

Cheers

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ron

[PlasticCraic]

Cool!  Should work well if you're both on the same page then.

Command Points can be used for Command Abilities.  The core rules of the game (available in the app) give you three that any army can use.  The others are on the warscroll of some heroes (your Savage Big Boss has one).

You get one per turn, one per Batallion you take, and one for every 50 points you don't spend.

You need to select 1000 points in the top right hand corner of Warscroll builder, otherwise it thinks you are bringing 1000 points of models to a 2000 point game  So you won't actually have all those Command Points, just the standard one per turn.

[Skabnoze]

8 hours ago, Ron said:

Were can I find the rules for GA Destruction? Also what ally’s can I take for GA destruction since I can technically take anything in that GA.

Purchase the main core rulebook.  It is pretty much the Big Red Book from old school warhammer.  That book will lay out the majority of the frameworks the game uses.  It is easily the best starting place to answer many of these questions that you have.

[PlasticCraic]

Actually listen to @Skabnoze, not me.

The Core Book would be a good purchase for you.

When I talk about it being impractical, I'm thinking with the mindset of someone who is very familiar with the game (been playing since Day 1) and so has a lot of embedded knowledge; and also plays mainly at tournaments / events, so when I'm thinking primarily in terms of lugging it to and around events.  If you're new to the game, and playing with a mate, it would be actually be ideal. 

It really is a very nicely printed book too, great artwork etc.

[Ron]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Will go get that book today

isnt the core rules free though? 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Ron

[Skabnoze]

13 hours ago, Ron said:

Thanks for all the advice guys. Will go get that book today

isnt the core rules free though? 

Technically yes, but the true answer is not really.

So if by "core rules" you mean the 8 pages that explain how the main flow of a game works (phases, moving units, shooting, close combat, morale) then yes those rules are free within the app and I believe they are also free to download.

However, that leaves out the following important rule frameworks:

how to construct an army: which is now split across 3 game modes (Open, Narrative, and Matched Play).  With Matched Play being the most common in general since it is pretty much the old-school way to build an army with some unit-type requirements, restrictions, and using point values.

scenarios:  both the mechanics for how scenarios work in the 3 game modes and also the different scenarios that most people play (you can always create your own of course)

allegiances:  what are the general rules for allegiances, how do they work, and what are the core allegiances for the basic Grand Alliances.  You can also include General Traits & Artifacts under this section.

battlefields:  how does terrain generally work (pretty sure this is not encapsulated in the 8-page core rulebook).  What are the rules for playing within one of the 8 realms?

Realm Spells:  what are the generic realm spell lores?

There is probably something else that I am missing, but the point is that there are a lot of frameworks to the game aside from just how do you push the models around and pretend that they kill each other.  The free core rules do not include the stuff I listed above.  If you purchase a Battletome for an army then it will have a lot of rules in it that use the above frameworks, but does not include the rules for those frameworks.  All of those rules are within the big book

So you can technically just buy some models and play a game using the free rules in the app and the unit entries from the app.  And if a basic game such as that with your friends is all that you are after then you will be just fine.  But if you are getting into the game the way the majority of the community plays it then you will need to understand the things I listed above.

On top of that, this core rulebook does a very good job of introducing the background lore for this game.  If you want to know what happened to the Old World that you used to play in with Warhammer Fantasy - and how it transitioned into the crazy mythology-driven world of Age of Sigmar then that is excellently, and entertainingly, laid out in the core book.  It is dripping with some of the best fantasy artwork GW has ever created.  And it does a great job of detailing out what the various realms are, who lives there, and just doing some great world-building to help ground your games.  

So, it is pretty much the Big Red Book from older editions - but I personally think the AoS 2nd edition book is probably GWs best core rulebook for any of the games that they have ever made (my opinion).  I think it is a really fantastic purchase - unless much of that stuff just does not interest you (which is a fair opinion to have).  If the things I listed do interest you, then I highly doubt you would regret that purchase.

From there you can start to look into various other supplemental books such as the General's Handbook, Malign Sorcery, army battetomes, etc.  How far you go depends on your budget and how much you find the game interests you.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Skabnoze]

12 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Actually listen to @Skabnoze, not me.

Well that just goes without saying.  😉