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Discussion: Chance of GW redoing old kits?


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What do you guys figure are the chances of GW redoing some of their current kits? They've purged all the stuff that isn't staying now. That leaves us with some kits that are nearly 2 decades older than anything else. Or just much, much uglier than than other stuff. Culprits here include the Marauder infantry, Grots and Zombie kits, amongst others. There used to be an expectation of GW redoing certain units each edition (with some units never getting the promised update), but the new release scheduel might make that easier than it used to be.

 

I'm feeling GW isn't going to update these kits, given that they've chosen to keep them around. Yet we know the Greater Daemons are getting a remake (at least the Keeper and Lord of Change). So it's not a matter of principal.

 

Any thoughts?

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Minimal chance. The new strategy is mini-armies rather than revisiting units people already have. Make a new Orc unit rather than re-do an existing one. 

We still have many factions to recieve boxes or battletomes; that's how they revisit now. GW have already made old units new again - see the riders or court. Twist of fluff and they seem new again.

I don't see the business reason for Brets or TKs coming back. They got removed to make space for new armies. The market spoke then. 

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I don't expect units to get redone. But you could say some new units replaced older kits. You could argue Bloodreavers and bloodwarriors replace Marauders and chaos warriors. We'll probably see similar units for the other chaos Gods. Deamons could be the exception because they are shared with 40k.

kornouth hunters are basically tree-kin. So we might see more units that somewhat replace older kits, but I don't expect them to ever have the same name. 

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2 hours ago, Ravenwing said:

Very slim chance. GW is keeping some old stuff around, but I do not think the old kits will be replaced one for one.

Obviously we will get "chaos" stormcasts at some point, maybe another human faction. Other than that I do not know.

Doubt we will ever get chaos stormcast considering chaos warriors are already there. The whole point of stormcast fluff is that many of them spat in the face of chaos already. If they were going to be corrupted by anyone which I doubt it would be nagash. 

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Disclaimer *the following opinion is based on wild speculation and fanatacism*

 

Well Brets and TK are probably two of the oldest ranges right? So they need the most work updating and re-designing them and making new mini's for them. I think we will see TK back personally. Same goes for Brets. Brets were due for an Army book in 8th Ed and never got it, TK got an army book update but precious little else. Those Skeleton Horses being used for TK were still the original minis I remember using in 1991 when the Undead plastics first got overhauled.

When they finally re-haul the 'Free peoples' , I think Brets will become a faction within that. But they will be much more stylised and harder to plagiarise and steal the IP of.

I think they will probably keep the chivalry and Arthurian stylisation but make it more high fantasy, like make them all flying Pegasus Knights or something. I'm sure we will see them back in some form or another.

Look at the time GW is spending on Duardin, Order and the Free Peoples and Aelves before any releases, and that tells us one thing, they are spending time & resources redesigning them and making new ranges, probably because they know they need to sell new minis, not have everybody using the same old ones they had in 8th ed.

There's a reason why they are coming much later and don't have 'start collecting' boxes yet it. I don't think they would just get wiped.  .

As far as Tomb Kings go, I believe the reason we aren't seeing them re-released yet is because they are one of the oldest ranges and need the most time updating. Death hasn't had any actual new AOS releases, its all been re-packs in one way or another, why do you think that is? Because resources are tied up in new model design and a new range for death, which will be Tomb Kings for sure , unless they are making new Vampires or zombies or something. I'll go out on a limb and say I think within 18 - 24 months  we will have all the new stuff and that includes TK & Brets. I think Chaos Dwarves will keep getting developed by FW too (Fingers crossed)

Feel free to call me out on it when it doesn't happen, but that's my 2 cents!

 

 

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Well Brets and TK are probably two of the oldest ranges right? So they need the most work updating and re-designing them and making new mini's for them. I think we will see TK back personally. Same goes for Brets

Aside from the relatively recent kits like the snake cav and the construct monsters I'm not sure there's much that's worth going back for in Tomb Kings that isn't already represented by other stuff in Death in one way or another. So I could see something like a "Guardians of the Fallen Empire" (or whatever) construct subfaction but not wholesale Tomb Kings with chariot units and skeleton archers. Possibly they could also tie them in with the Morghast style constructs Nagash brought along for the ride.

My $.02 is Brettonians are just gone. They were a couple of models shy of being a historical wargame Franco/European army and at that were horribly anachronistic next to the Empire, which was already a quasi-historical Germanic army from the Shot & Pike era, several centuries more advanced (and yet lived next door in the fluff). Not unique enough and not enough design space to work with. Their only kit I can imagine missing is the Peg Knights. Those were nice.

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I think people are being hopeless optimisitic when they talk about the re-release of dead factions. It makes little business sense to cut costs and hive off a product line, only to bring it back further down the line.

 

In terms of the OP, no I don't think we'll see old kits get redone for some time, at least not until the reboxing and product range transisiton is complete. Even then, bear in mind that any new kit would carry a substantial price increase as GW is currently only raising prices on new items, we could easily see Maurauders for example at £30 for 10 if a new kit was done

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I asked the AoS Facebook if they will replace existing kits a while ago - they ignored me. I think its more that the people involved in the Facebook don't have anything to do with production and have no idea. 

The fact that instead of replacing the Branchwraith, they made the Branchwytch is very telling. The Branchwytch could have very easily replaced the outdated resin Branchwraith for sure. But they just didn't, as if its a new rule that they only make new kits, no more replacing old ones.

I think there will be new zombies, but they will be "deadwalkers" and some kind of weird unique IP. I think there will be new grots but they will be some kind of weird unique IP, etc. Look at the 8-limbed "Grot Scuttlings" from the silver tower; this is the future. Models will get replaced by new models that don't look like anything we've ever seen before. Unless the IP is already very unique - like skaven.

GW lost the lawsuits trying to own the IPs they have, so now they are building new IPs that they can easily own. If its something they cant own; Goblins, Dwarves, Vampires, Mummies, Elves, etc. -its now gone forever. Sure things you are hoping for will come back, but how will they come back? They will come back as beautifully detailed models in totally new IPs which don't exist anywhere else in miniatures.

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First isn't thier lore about Bretonians basicly being the flesh eater court??? That's why they have all this royalty BS going on. So Bretonnians are pretty much covered there. Plus, it'd only bring on new adopters. People who already have brets wont buy anything new. 

 

TK are death rattle. Nothing really makes them all that different from that. It wasn't all that popular any way???

Odds are most stuff will be new stuff replacing old things completely. With the addition of a compendium which is basicly like magics format system. They'll have no trouble phasing out old models for new stuff. Encouraging the new stuff by simple just not supporting them anymore, or by encouraging you to "collect them all."

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I think we may see some of the older plastic kits revisited at some point, but that is a few years down the road. Those factions and units that didn't make it into the new alliances and factions are gone and are not coming back. Seems like GW has a plan in place to release a mix of both entirely new factions, with new product as well as battletomes and repacks for those factions which have enough existing miniatures to support them. 

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16 hours ago, Shane said:

Minimal chance. The new strategy is mini-armies rather than revisiting units people already have. Make a new Orc unit rather than re-do an existing one. 

We still have many factions to recieve boxes or battletomes; that's how they revisit now. GW have already made old units new again - see the riders or court. Twist of fluff and they seem new again.

I don't see the business reason for Brets or TKs coming back. They got removed to make space for new armies. The market spoke then. 

Overall I agree, but I would go so far as to say zero chance of direct redos, and in fact there may be future waves of 'die-off'. I mean, look at the foot marauders vs the Kairic Acolytes and the Bloodreavers the old models don't really compare quality wise. I could see once we have the four god specific marauder analogues, the old ones could be scrapped.

I think in general what GW are going to look to do are get new people with new armies, rather than focusing on those people who already have armies so less re-dos are the likely order of things.

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Here's how I see it:

There are kits in the works (new) and there are kits already out there (stock).

GW has given us rules for the kits out there.

GW also designs beautiful new models for the new kits (enticement 1).

GW grants new warscrolls (enticement 2) for new kits.

The models themselves are enough to makepeople jump in with wallets open - usually.

I say usually because there are a subset who are more rules driven, who prefer games to the purchase/modelling process.

For these new warscrolls can be impressive and enticing if the unit is either new or tweaked in how it performs (revamped).

My theory is that if GW replaced a kit and introduced (replaced) new rules (in part to help drive sales) they'd be giving up a certain % of the userbase. Those that'd reuse that model in their collection or buy the old stock first (cheaper) won't be as interested in paying maybe 50% more for the new models.

There's a loss of potential profit here given the old stock will eventually sell out anyway.

I don't want to think too coldly about it but it seems to me that it makes sense.

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I think you have to differentiate between four types of old models:

-Old models that are seen as interesting enough to keep supporting them, but not much more than that. Example: dwarf warriors.

-Old models that are seen as interesting enough to keep supporting them, included in new stuff (BT, Start collecting), but not more than that. Most of the old range is in this status (already confirmed, for instance, in all Ghould stuff, big beasts of ogres, Savage Orcs, Black Orcs, etc.)

-Old models that are so interesting and profitable that a new kit that replaces an old kid could be justifiable. There is no single case of this so far. Brutes could be new Black Orcs, for instance, but they decided to treat them as all new stuff. Someone pointed out the same with Branchwraith/Branchwych. Both cases are very telling of current approach. That is not to discard that some stuff may receive such a treatment some day (example: new basic Chaos Warriors/Slave to Darkness; new Slann), but I do not think that will take place until all new factions are released and all old factions to receive a new BT are updated. That means: quite a lot of years. Exception: daemons. Those might receive quite soon an old faction revisited and replaced treatment. We already saw this with the BT, it should also be the case with Tzeentch daemons soon. 

-Old models that have been fundamentally altered, although they remain the "same". This category refers to mostly special characters. There are quite a bit that have been updated in such a way. In AoS this has been the case with Archaon and Alarielle. If you count ET as part of AoS (design wise, this is plausible), this was also the case with the Mortarchs and Nagash himself. Same treatment will surely take place with Tyrion, Teclis and Malekith, and maybe some others. 

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As one who just having his first steps in the Age of Sigmar, after many years of having Bretonnian army, I lost all hope a long time ago. The rumors are running since the seventh edition. Games-Workshop is dedicating its resources for the future (aka. the Age of Sigmar). The old world is dead and we must accept that.

Believe me that I will be more than happy to be proven wrong.

AOSpriest

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As the resident Tomb King lobbyist here I thought I would chime in on the TK Bret discussion. 

I do not see these armies coming back as we know them. TK are continually referenced in the lore (kings, chariots in one of the timelines from a campaign book, Necrosphinx in a novel, skeleton army with chariots, catapults made of bone, and casket of souls sound a-likes, plus an egyptian style city and mention of Necro-Kings in the newest novel Lord of Undeath). So, they are either doing that to keep people with existing collections happy and feeling like they are included, or there are plans for the future. 

I could see them bringing the 8th edition kits back out as part of a relaunch, Tomb Guard, Sphinx, Necroknights, but dropping everything else. Chariots seem like a no brainer at some point, even if they are not TK themed, but just Deathrattle themed. I think any other new kits that come out will be something entirely new, like the Brutes/Black Orcs thing. They harken back to an older kit, but are not a direct analog. This was they can rebrand it how they want. 

Basically if there is a new TK launch at some point in the future, the rerelease of old kits will be limited, the new kits will be different from what we are familiar with (probably closer to the Morghast design) and the lore will be revamped to fit the Mortal Realms. I could see Settra making a come back, perhaps aligned with Order? Or as a rogue Death faction.

Bretts I could see them doing something similar with as well. I think all of their kits are too dated for them to save, but I could see a new sub-faction coming out that is clearly heavily influenced by the Bretts, but clearly distinct from them at the same time. Basically just a faction of noble knights.

All that being said, both of those armies still exist within AoS, have rules that support them, and are entirely viable. TK like I said even keep getting mentions in the lore and novels. The only drawback is model availability. I think there is about a 50/50 chance of these two factions getting revisited in some form or another at some point during AoS.

As for other kits getting updated, I don't think we will see any direct analogs anymore. If a new zombie kit comes out it will be called Deadwalkers, and have a different load out then the old kit so that if you want to use the new Warscroll you have to buy the new models and not just keep using the old ones. 

That's my 2 cents anyway.

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Problem is there can't really be a "rogue" death faction that goes against him in a sense because nagash can crush the will of undead that are in his presence. Hence why the rogue ghoul courts which are not many ran instead of hanging around and keep running if they even get a whiff of nagash. 

Since if he gets to them they are done. 

Honestly I suspect the new tomb kings will be led by Khalida I just have a feeling because settra would not bend the knee it's not in his character to do so. While having Khalida would make things interesting with Neferata hanging around as well and their rivalry. Since Khalida can sallow her pride if she can get a stab at neferata. 

Plus nagash is the death god now not really much point going against someone who can easily unmake you than before in the old world. 

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3 hours ago, Nico said:

The Queen of Snake surfers.

That could work fluffwise as aren't Khalida and Neferata reunited at the end of the End Times?

If Khalida is your general and all units have the "Deathrattle" keyword Snake surfers are battleline.

That would be awesome! You could do some Escape from LA display boards for it!

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