Let's Chat: Ylthari's Guardians

[PJetski]

More random thoughts...

I have been playing Farstriders and Thorns lately so I honestly forgot Sorcerous Scouring existed. It seems strong, but too risky - with 4 spells your deck really starts to suffer if Ylthari is taken out, and adding an objective that can only be scored if your 3 health wizard is alive and being aggressive seems too all-in for my liking.

I like Keep Them Guessing better than Combination Strike. It gives you options to play a defensive/passive style, which is an important option to have because this warband can't go "all-in guns blazing" in round 1. It forces you to play a certain way to score it, but with their huge threat range and various Reactions I don't find it to be too restrictive.

I think Last Chance is one of those unfortunately necessary cards. It helps score Lithe Spirits even if it fails, so there's some synergy there, too.

I don't like the anti-synergy with Death From Afar and Trap/Pit Trap. I think I may swap one of them for Encroaching Shadow and  since that can be used before attacking, or try swapping Death From Afar for Masterstroke  - Ahnslaine, Skhathael, and even very rarely Gallanghann can score it with their Reactions.

Abasoth's Withering is a decent card but it has poor synergy with my deck, and I am considering swapping it for some kind of healing card to help inspire Ahnslaine more frequently and keep my fighters healthy after scoring Calculated Risk. Healing Amphora seems like the best choice, despite the positioning requirement.

@riddlesworthHave you tried the Stand and Shoot + Duellist's Speed combo? 

[riddlesworth]

55 minutes ago, PJetski said:

More random thoughts...

I have been playing Farstriders and Thorns lately so I honestly forgot Sorcerous Scouring existed. It seems strong, but too risky - with 4 spells your deck really starts to suffer if Ylthari is taken out, and adding an objective that can only be scored if your 3 health wizard is alive and being aggressive seems too all-in for my liking.

With Ylthari only being 2 damage when inspired and having 2 spells in the deck that can score this objective (FAQ says no to Abasoth's Withering), it's more of a second round card - where aggro warbands will be coming anyway and where against control i'll have hopefully whittled down a fighter to let Ylthari finish. I am very aware though of how vital Ylthari is to this deck. It's why sudden growth is there. It's why I'm considering Acrobatic and Last Chance because she needs to stick around.

 

55 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I like Keep Them Guessing better than Combination Strike. It gives you options to play a defensive/passive style, which is an important option to have because this warband can't go "all-in guns blazing" in round 1. It forces you to play a certain way to score it, but with their huge threat range and various Reactions I don't find it to be too restrictive.

I'm flipping back and forth on them. On the one hand, you are absolutely correct. I need to get better at planning the turn for it but KTG is a great objective for warbands with card actions - especially reactions. On the other hand, this deck does not need to go all guns blazing unless the opening hand is the 3 score immediately kill cards. Even change of tactics doesn't require putting someone in much danger due to Ahnslaine's threat range.

 

55 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think Last Chance is one of those unfortunately necessary cards. It helps score Lithe Spirits even if it fails, so there's some synergy there, too.

I don't like the anti-synergy with Death From Afar and Trap/Pit Trap. I think I may swap one of them for Encroaching Shadow and  since that can be used before attacking, or try swapping Death From Afar for Masterstroke  - Ahnslaine, Skhathael, and even very rarely Gallanghann can score it with their Reactions.

So Masterstroke works with trap/pit trap/ready for action/ahnslaine (with some setup)/skhathael. Death from afar works for Ahnslaine, Ylthari AND any spells Ylthari casts (again, bar Withering...). If I was to drop Trap for Last Chance, Death from Afar would be the better card, but take your point on the lack of synergy. If those changes were made, we'd be looking at something like:

 

55 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Abasoth's Withering is a decent card but it has poor synergy with my deck, and I am considering swapping it for some kind of healing card to help inspire Ahnslaine more frequently and keep my fighters healthy after scoring Calculated Risk. Healing Amphora seems like the best choice, despite the positioning requirement.

@riddlesworthHave you tried the Stand and Shoot + Duellist's Speed combo? 

Vital Surge is an option...it's not the best one, but it is an option...

You may have a point on Abasoth's Withering. The damage output on the fighter cards just really needs some help and Withering is one way to do it.

 

I want to try Stand & Shoot + Duellist's speed but Upgrade space is actually really tight here. The minute you include a double channel spell, you need 2 upgrades to make sure you can get it off consistently (because 2 upgrades in the deck is a higher chance of pulling one when you need it, not because it needs 2 upgrades to go off). You could take Frozen in Time to neuter Mollog and Magore, but Curse of Dwindling has a longer life span. You need wound/defence/accuracy boosters if gallaghan is going to do any close combat. Any strategy having Ylthari at the core needs some defence tech for her. You need at least 1 damage booster for Gallaghan or Skathael to deal with 4 wound models. At which point, you're really running out of space. And you still need the upgrade equipped at the time of using the ploy, otherwise you might ping 1-2 wounds off the model charging in but you still get slotted. Having what is basically Quick Thinker in a post BAR world though is insane.

 

I'm going to get some reps in with the Combination Strike/Victory after Victory combo. If I do decide to include Keep Them Guessing, it will be at the expense of Combination Strike, because then KTG still helps victory after victory.

Edited April 29, 2019 by riddlesworth

[belly318]

Great discussion guys,

i'd done some playing around and added/removed a couple of things. the Deck is primarily the same.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N269,N268,N266,N265,348,N371,N309,N302,N365,N429,N274,N388,N557,N276,N451,374,N290,N476,257,306,336,349,N272,243,N543,391,376,330,N550,273,N482,N503,320,N529

I've thrown in Duel of Wits and Potion of Rage. Both help with Lithe Spirits - and give a little more consistency to the deck. Playing essentially one ploy shorter isn't a problem because of all the instant glory. I didn't like Keep them Guessing. Great card, but I don't want to feel restricted in my actions. Late game it can sometimes be a very tough draw. I like Masterstroke in it's place for more instant glory.  With 3/4 fighters having reactions that can kill, and two ploys that make it happen - it seems to be a solid pick. Finding a way to squeeze Superior Tactician in could be better.

[riddlesworth]

Rebound scoring masterstroke is painful for your opponent...been o  the receiving end of that.

 

To fit superior tactician in, I'd drop either awakened weapon or change if tactics. With so many score immediately objectives you should be fine without CoT.

 

Life surge doesnt inspire unless fighters are wounded already so it will help your calculated risk fighter and gallaghann. That's about it. Unless you're in a shard gale heavy meta. You have the spellcasting boost for a big spell - Curse?

[PJetski]

If you're not running Keep Them Guessing you can probably drop Change of Tactics. Guardians have so many great immediate scores that you don't need to spend a restricted slot on COT.

How useful is Warding Stance? It seems like Trusted Defender (or another +Wounds card) would be more beneficial since it could be applied to any of the fighters.

[riddlesworth]

11 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If you're not running Keep Them Guessing you can probably drop Change of Tactics. Guardians have so many great immediate scores that you don't need to spend a restricted slot on COT.

How useful is Warding Stance? It seems like Trusted Defender (or another +Wounds card) would be more beneficial since it could be applied to any of the fighters.

Agreed on Change of Tactics. While they have Last Guardians in faction, I don't think it makes the cut because of the pressure on ploy space.

 

RE: Warding Stance. It's a good point. I can do the math on 2 dice with a re-roll, but I get lost at 3 dice with everything except single crit. Chances of rolling a single crit on 3 dice are around 42.1%. Chances of rolling a single crit with a re-roll on 2 dice is 43.5% so my gut says it may be a wash except there is a chance to roll triple success or triple crit with 3 dice. Unless your opponent is a math savant though, 3 dice is far more discouraging than 2 so the psychological impact is greater.

 

The question is, do you have a slot for both? If you're only really going to gear 2 fighters proper, with some of those upgrades being multi functional, you'd pick Ylthari and Gallaghan:

Ylthari: Blessing of Vytrix, Well of Power, Acrobatic, Archer's Focus, Sudden Growth

Gallaghann: Great Strength, Warding Stance, Constant Growth, Gloryseeker, Awakened Weapon

What do you drop for a Trusted Defender and Champions Fortitude? Archer's Focus maybe, but that's beneficial to Ahnslaine as well (did I mention I hate 2 dice smash attacks for reliability?) But from Gallaghann? Maybe Gloryseeker so he only hits for 3 and you rely on Ahnslaine or Gambits as a finisher. Gloryseeker is useful on literally everybody.

 

Unless you run a 24 card deck. But we've discussed those

[belly318]

I was under the impression KTG was restricted. With it not being, I’ve put it into my deck. So consistent and allows some passive play against defensive warbands. I am not a huge fan of how it can be restrictive, and relying on a crit happening to cut it down a bit seems risky however. Anyone had game experience with it?

Some good points on Warding Stance.

Lets talk boards. If I lose boards, I’m inclined to go with Arcane Nexus. The three lethals are spread out, as are the start positions. Seems like it will give a consistent placement regardless of how it’s placed.

If I win, the Animus Forge and Penitents Throne are the two I like the look of. Forbidden Chambers 1 could be good too.

The other talking point is blessing of Vytrix. It's there for consistency on Apshy and Unmaking. But that assumes i've drawn it, and equipped it prior to needing to cast. These two spells are a 75% chance of casting normally, 87.5% chance once well of power has been equipped. Is Vytrix needed?

Edited May 1, 2019 by belly318

[riddlesworth]

Vytrix is there for double channel spells like Curse of Dwindling. If you're not running them, you can get away with just running Well of Power.

Ways to score KTG efficiently:

- crit reaction

- Ahsnlaine Reaction + Attack action

- Ready for Action attack/move

 

If I'm running Calculated risk, my boards are Arcane Nexus, Penitents Throne and Ruptured Seal. Arcane Nexus is used against opponents that I think/know will go long board (Mollog, Skellies, Tzeentch, Magores). Ruptured Seal and Penitent's Throne are my reaction boards if I win the roll, depending on what my opponent has placed. If I lose boards and don't think they'll go aggro, Penitent's Throne is my go to.

[PJetski]

11 hours ago, belly318 said:

I was under the impression KTG was restricted. With it not being, I’ve put it into my deck. So consistent and allows some passive play against defensive warbands. I am not a huge fan of how it can be restrictive, and relying on a crit happening to cut it down a bit seems risky however. Anyone had game experience with it?

...

The other talking point is blessing of Vytrix. It's there for consistency on Apshy and Unmaking. But that assumes i've drawn it, and equipped it prior to needing to cast. These two spells are a 75% chance of casting normally, 87.5% chance once well of power has been equipped. Is Vytrix needed?

Stand and Shoot also counts towards KTG (and Lithe Spirits)

Re: Vytrix, I'm not sure. I use Tome of Incantations and there's something very nice value in getting guaranteed spells in a game all about dice rolls. However, as I consider cutting cards like Abasoth's Withering I find less value in boosting channel spells.

[Skellisquad]

My thinking about the Ylthari is in line with the decks listed here but I foresee a problem.  I've always found Masterstroke hard to score so I'd take Swift Strike, Death from Afar and Scorcerous Sourcing which also have strong synergies. 

The problem with these is that they all require taking a enemy out of action. Getting a couple of these in your first hand can really cause a problem as with 2 dice attacks and 1 or 2 damage scoring these will be difficult against Magores or Stormcast variants.  If Knockback was more useful I'd be tempted by Get Thee Hence and Stumble as Gallanghal already has Knockback when inspired. Stumble is also a Reaction for scoring Lithe Spirits. Unfortunately unlike What Armour GTH still needs the attack to succeed. 

[riddlesworth]

If you include 3 "kill" objectives (masterstroke, sorcerous scouring etc.), the chances of getting them in your opening hand:

1: 49%

2: 12%

3: 0.004%

So 1 in every 10 games, you'll get 2 in the opening hand. I would be tempted to mulligan at that point vs stormcast and magores. However, if the other objective is something like calculated risk, or keep them guessing, or song of hatred (and you have a gambit spell on hand - roughly 46% chance if you have 4 gambits in a 20 card deck), keeping them isn't too much of an issue. and against Zarbag, Eyes, Skellies, even the dwarf warbands is not so bad. Against Mollog, I can see an argument for including Hidden Paths to get at the squishy members at the back.

if you're running ready for action and trap, with ahnslaine and scatheal's reactions, masterstroke is eminently scorable

 

Gallaghann having knockback when inspired is less useful because he is lowest priority for inspiration. He's good enough to do his job on his base stats and gains very little from it. 

Unless you're including mutating maul, I don't see that the warband has the base stats to include What Armour or GTH. Both require successful attacks btw. GTH can't be scored on a kill as drive back happen after damage. Stumble making the cut in a 20 card deck is tough too.

[PJetski]

This is exactly why I like the COT + KTG package... you dont need to get kills, you can  play more passively and still get the glory you need to snowball.

[riddlesworth]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

This is exactly why I like the COT + KTG package... you dont need to get kills, you can  play more passively and still get the glory you need to snowball.

Agreed. The less you need to interact with the opponent in that first round (or over the course of the game) to score your glory, the better. It's why defensive play was SO strong in Shadespire - what armour, get thee hence, strong start (not to mention the restricted cards based on killing) just become so hard to score in Round 1 and then you're in an upgraded vs. unupgraded fight in round 2, which most warbands will lose. Also one of the reasons Cursebreakers are so bonkers good. 

@PJetski after getting a couple of reps in with the deck above, I'm 100% on board with KTG and keeping CoT. Victory after Victory has been a consistent score, as has scorched earth. The only objectives I've had any difficulty scoring having been Escalation in Round 1 (even with all the score immediates), Lithe Spirits (when I haven't set up an Ahnslaine kill or I'm relying on crits) and Song of Hatred in the rare occasion that I draw it late and I've burned my gambits to score other objectives.

 

On Abasoth's Withering - still really solid for me. The ability to make a 4 health fighter 3 health in preparation for Inspired Skathael or Great Strength Gallaghann is awesome. The ability to do it 3 times (Pangs, Sphere, Withering) is incredibly reliable. It does make Ylthari a target, so the inclusion of Last Chance and playing Acrobatic has been key, as well as picking my fights with her.
 

On Constant Growth vs. Re-Roll upgrades - the psychological impact of 3 shield defence dice has been as expected. Gallaghann either gets heavily targetted (leaving Ylthari safer to do her thing and Skathael to maybe get 2 charges in rather than charge and getting slotted). Or he gets left alone. In which case, 2 hex reach with 3-4 damage dependent on other upgrades is a problem. I don't know that re-rolls will have the same impact. EDIT: stuck a post up in the warhammer community page. The Call It Shadespire guy ran the math. More dice = better is what it boiled down to, so my math clearly sucks when there isn't a good online calculator...

 

It's very consistent, but I do want to add Stand & Shoot/Duellist's Speed to make 22 cards. I keep considering Cover Ground, but the way I'm playing the warband right now as  flex defensive/aggro mix means I'd literally be including 2 cards (spectral wings/movement boost or faneway) to score a single objective. This is also the reason I'm not running Hidden Paths. Doesn't fit the plan.

Edited May 3, 2019 by riddlesworth

[PJetski]

I really don't like Trap or Pit Trap in this deck any more. They don't score objectives that activate from kills like Death From Afar, Sorcerous Scouring, and Strike Swiftly.  They only score Lithe Spirits but there are enough ways to score that.

I think a case could be made for including them with Masterstroke but I'm not sure that's worth so many restricted slots. Furthermore, Pit Trap has the same window as the fighter card reactions so it can often be wasted.

With the removal of these two cards I gain 2 restricted slots, which I want to use for Twist the Knife and Awakened Weapon. I like TTK more than Trap or Pit Trap because it can be used to score Strike Swiftly, and with Awakened Weapon it becomes more consistent.

I want to also add Healing Amphora to have another consistent way of inspiring a 2nd fighter each game - giving Ahnslaine +1 range is really important when fighting ranged warbands (Farstriders, Profiteers) and high model count warbands (Guard, Thorns, Gitz), and giving Skhathael Cleave and +1 dice can be important against Stormcast, Magore, and Mollog. The extra healing could also come in handy when mitigating the effects of an enemy damage card (Sphere of Aqshy is in every deck with a wizard) or recovering the damage taken from  Calculated Risk.

So here are the changes I'm thinking about:
-Trap
-Pit Trap
+Twist the Knife
+Healing Amphora
-Tome of Incantations
+Awakened Weapon

Here's what my deck looks like now:

 

[riddlesworth]

I like it a lot. 

I do notice that our objective decks are morphing into each other. Hopefully that's not just echo chamber.

 

How do you find Sphere of Ghur? Just a useful one to have for Song if Hatred?

[PJetski]

Funny enough my objectives haven't changed at all since I first put my deck up in this thread. I tried a few different options (Sorcerous Scouring, Precise Use of Force, Escalation) but settled on the same ones I started with.

Re: Sphere of Ghur

It can help score Song of Hatred, it can inspire Ylthari, it boosts your accuracy to help make sure your kill cards are scored (Strike Swiftly, Death From Afar), and it helps fish for criticals with Skhathael (scoring Lithe Spirits). It's like a little bit of grease to help everything run smoothly. I could just run Determined Effort but I like the synergy with Song of Hatred and inspiring/healing Ylthari. There have been a few times where I wanted to score SOH without having to activate Ylthari, and being able to cast Sphere of Ghur was perfect.

For me it's all about versatility and consistency. I never want to mulligan so I want as many paths as possible to score the objectives I draw.

On another note... . With this many Score Immediately cards I think Guardians could run a Katophrane deck 🤔

Edited May 3, 2019 by PJetski

[Skellisquad]

20 person tournament outing today for my Guardians. I placed fourth with a 3-1 record including two mirror matches. Confirmed my opinions about Death From Afar and Strike Swiftly. Really struggled to score these so I think they're out. Two other Guardian decks were running Victory after Victory and Combination Strike which is certainly worth a try. 

[belly318]

I attended a smallish 7 player event over the weekend with the below deck.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N269,N268,N266,N265,348,N371,N309,N302,N365,N429,N274,N388,N557,N276,N451,374,N476,257,306,336,349,N272,243,N543,391,376,330,N550,N503,N529,N340,N282,320,433

I did ok, placing 4th and getting a few good wins on the way.

Round 1 - Cursebreakers - Despite him winning boards for all 3 games, and setting up on the short edges - I won the first game, before losing the final two. I competed well, and the guardians can do passive as good as anyone really. They mainly struggle with the weak fighter cards. I lost 2-1, with a net glory of -8 or so. Not a bad result.

Round 2 - Cursebreakers - Much different deck, a bit more of an aggressive player. Much easier for me to play, as I could sit back and let him come to me. Two easy wins, +11 glory or something like that. Skathael starred, and Ylthari can do some series work when Gallaghan/Skathael wall up infront of her.

Round 3 - Skellies - A couple of easy wins. In both games I managed to have Gallaghan equipped with Great Strength, Tome of Offerings, and Trusted defender during the 2nd round. I basically just ignored my objectives and squished a skeleton per turn for 2 glory.  +20 glory?

Round 4 - Kataphrane Kharadrons - Terrible matchup - I think the dwarves are just flat out bad for the Guardians. I set up short edges, as I knew I outscored him on passive glory. I figured if I could sit back far enough and keep him from getting his artifacts out early, i'd stand a chance. Mostly, it worked on the first game. 10-12 loss. Game 2 he got better board placement and steamrolled me with 32 glory or something ridiculous.

Round 5 - Kharadrons - More standard deck, and these guys are definitely bad new for the guardians. Got rolled in both games, I think I claimed 13 glory over the two, with my opponent on 30+ from both games. 

So yeah, my deck works the way I want it to mostly, but struggles when forced into a fight early. I'm looking to include some more passive glory, maybe Alone in the Darkness. I want the option to sit all the way back early on if I need to. 

Lithe Spirits and Song of Hatred are two amazing objectives for the warband. Keep them Guessing is sometimes a bit clunky to score - but it's so consistent I can't ditch it. I would like to swap out Lifesurge for something, but can't decide on what. I think Potion/Amphora/Leech Power are probably enough inspire cards. Gallaghan and Anhslaine really don't care too much about inspiration. Speaking of which, i'm yet to find a use for Anhslaine that isn't scoring change of tactics from my opening hand.

[belly318]

On 5/5/2019 at 5:15 AM, Skellisquad said:

20 person tournament outing today for my Guardians. I placed fourth with a 3-1 record including two mirror matches. Confirmed my opinions about Death From Afar and Strike Swiftly. Really struggled to score these so I think they're out. Two other Guardian decks were running Victory after Victory and Combination Strike which is certainly worth a try. 

Did you include any of the 1 damage gambit spells?

I found those the easiest way to score death from afar with any reliability. 

I've been running Victory after Victory in my deck.

[Skellisquad]

7 hours ago, belly318 said:

Did you include any of the 1 damage gambit spells?

I found those the easiest way to score death from afar with any reliability. 

I've been running Victory after Victory in my deck.

Yes I did. The problem was that there wasn’t anyone I could finish off with a spell. It did happen once, but I was only two spaces from them at the time! 

You're running exactly the same objectives as I was. The Guardians deck that came second in the tournament was running with Combination Strike instead of Death from Afar for more passive scoring. 

The tournament final was Guardians vs Profiteers. The Guardian's won round one, lost the second on a tie break and the third on glory. Keep an eye on http://canyourollacrit.com for the detailed report. 

[riddlesworth]

On 5/6/2019 at 1:41 AM, belly318 said:

I attended a smallish 7 player event over the weekend with the below deck.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N269,N268,N266,N265,348,N371,N309,N302,N365,N429,N274,N388,N557,N276,N451,374,N476,257,306,336,349,N272,243,N543,391,376,330,N550,N503,N529,N340,N282,320,433

I did ok, placing 4th and getting a few good wins on the way.

...

So yeah, my deck works the way I want it to mostly, but struggles when forced into a fight early. I'm looking to include some more passive glory, maybe Alone in the Darkness. I want the option to sit all the way back early on if I need to. 

Lithe Spirits and Song of Hatred are two amazing objectives for the warband. Keep them Guessing is sometimes a bit clunky to score - but it's so consistent I can't ditch it. I would like to swap out Lifesurge for something, but can't decide on what. I think Potion/Amphora/Leech Power are probably enough inspire cards. Gallaghan and Anhslaine really don't care too much about inspiration. Speaking of which, i'm yet to find a use for Anhslaine that isn't scoring change of tactics from my opening hand.

The best Cursebreakers decks I've seen and played have a similar style to the Guardians - passive score and starve aggro of glory round 1, win the fight with upgraded fighters round 2 and 3. I'm undecided on whether Cursebreakers do this better because of base stats.

My buddy is running Alone in the Darkness. You don't see it as much any more now that Great Concussion is gone, but it's worth trying it out, simply because against the Aggro bands that you won't be able to get early kills off, it's a much easier score than against, say, Gitz (which are still popular even in the Mollog meta). In your deck the decision is between Awakened Weapon and Sudden Growth I think. You could take Great Fortitude instead - great for Gallaghan, less good for Ylthari. The other challenge with adding Alone in the Darkness is the chance of clogging your hand with end phase and not scoring Victory after Victory.

On Lifesurge - I'd swap for Abasoth's Withering of Sphere of Ghur. Both help with Song of Hatred. Withering helps chip away at someone so your low average damage isn't so painful (and makes Ahnslaine more of a finisher). Sphere of Ghur helps Gallaghann before you get Awakened Weapon out or helps Skathael hit those crits.

 

How consistent do you find 22 cards? Duel of Wits has always been a bubble card dependent on deck for me.

[riddlesworth]

On 5/3/2019 at 9:01 PM, PJetski said:

 

Re: Sphere of Ghur

It can help score Song of Hatred, it can inspire Ylthari, it boosts your accuracy to help make sure your kill cards are scored (Strike Swiftly, Death From Afar), and it helps fish for criticals with Skhathael (scoring Lithe Spirits). It's like a little bit of grease to help everything run smoothly. I could just run Determined Effort but I like the synergy with Song of Hatred and inspiring/healing Ylthari. There have been a few times where I wanted to score SOH without having to activate Ylthari, and being able to cast Sphere of Ghur was perfect.

A thought on this given my last comment. Would you drop healing amphora for Sphere of Ghur? With leech power, crit reaction and healing potion you can inspire ylthari and skathael. Do you need to invest more resources inspiring anyone else?

[Skellisquad]

3 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

A thought on this given my last comment. Would you drop healing amphora for Sphere of Ghur? With leech power, crit reaction and healing potion you can inspire ylthari and skathael. Do you need to invest more resources inspiring anyone else?

That's an interesting question. It does seem overkill but having both feels like it maximises your chance of inspiring someone in the first round. Replacing it with a spell would certainly help with Ylthari inspiration and Song of Hatred but also increase your dependacy on dice.  Definitely worth trying. In play my second drawn Healing was often used to actually heal someone!

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Skellisquad

[belly318]

13 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

The best Cursebreakers decks I've seen and played have a similar style to the Guardians - passive score and starve aggro of glory round 1, win the fight with upgraded fighters round 2 and 3. I'm undecided on whether Cursebreakers do this better because of base stats.

My buddy is running Alone in the Darkness. You don't see it as much any more now that Great Concussion is gone, but it's worth trying it out, simply because against the Aggro bands that you won't be able to get early kills off, it's a much easier score than against, say, Gitz (which are still popular even in the Mollog meta). In your deck the decision is between Awakened Weapon and Sudden Growth I think. You could take Great Fortitude instead - great for Gallaghan, less good for Ylthari. The other challenge with adding Alone in the Darkness is the chance of clogging your hand with end phase and not scoring Victory after Victory.

On Lifesurge - I'd swap for Abasoth's Withering of Sphere of Ghur. Both help with Song of Hatred. Withering helps chip away at someone so your low average damage isn't so painful (and makes Ahnslaine more of a finisher). Sphere of Ghur helps Gallaghann before you get Awakened Weapon out or helps Skathael hit those crits.

 

How consistent do you find 22 cards? Duel of Wits has always been a bubble card dependent on deck for me.

I'd actually stuck Ghur into my deck re-write for an event this weekend. The other change was removing awakened weapon for Twist the knife, and dropping rebound. Twist helps with Lithe Spirits and Strike Swiftly. Ghur assists in Awakened weapons stead, and i've always got potion of rage. Gallaghan still won't be accurate, but I can rely on an inspired Skathael. I've moved backa way from Alone in the Darkness - mostly because I have no way of interacting with my opponents fighter placement, short of knockbacks after attacks. If I could squeeze Distraction or another push in - I might be inclined.

Thoughts on Tethered Spirit instead of Sudden Growth for Ylthari?

I chose Duel because it helps with Lithe Spirits, and card draw is always great. Given the high amount of score immediately, i'm not worried about the extra upgrades at all. 

Another card I was keen to try is Blessing of Hydragos. It will allow Ylthari to shoot 'n' scoot when needed and help keep her safe - i've just got to have a successful attack. Perhaps Sudden Growth works better than Tethered Spirit in combo with that.

The biggest issue i've found is keeping Ylthari alive to score the objectives she needs to. With 3 objectives, 5 ploys and 4 upgrades being intended for her - it's close to an all-in strategy.

[belly318]

7 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

A thought on this given my last comment. Would you drop healing amphora for Sphere of Ghur? With leech power, crit reaction and healing potion you can inspire ylthari and skathael. Do you need to invest more resources inspiring anyone else?

I like Amphora. Without it, you only have Healing Potion to inspire Skathael, assuming you're able to draw it. As both Leech and crit only work for Ylthari.

Amphora is just another option, but has the caveat that they be adjacent to Gallaghan. Even if you use the potion on Skathael early game, you've got Amphora for Gallaghan, and as he's the one bloke who's least likely to be 1-shotted - it's useful for him to heal with even if he gains very little from being inspired.

To be honest, i've not seen a huge need to push for Ylthari to inspire early. Leech should be held for whenever you have Scorcher earth in hand (unless you also have Unmaking in hand), and she's likely to inspire herself when casting. I think out of the 15 games i've played, I used healing potion on her once to inspire. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by belly318