Reproduction (aka Where Does The Pollen Go?)

[amysrevenge]

33 minutes ago, DarkWingDuck said:

Although I agree with you, that Greenskins are fungus based across all of the various GW games, there are some "female" (maybe?) Orc cheerleaders in Blood Bowl.

Well, Greenskins are fungus based in 40k and 40k-affiliated games.  There's never been anything (that I can recall) that stuck that to any flavour of Fantasy at any point.  Other than out of the mouths of 40k players dipping their toes in fantasy games.

[michu]

@amysrevenge Someone already mentioned that old Skarsnik book says he was a spore.

[VBS]

Maybe they now went along the fungus thing as in 40k, but in the Old World fluff, it is not clearly explained. They appear to be tied to the Old Ones, either as a failed creation or introduced by error/accident in some way. Saurus warriors were then created to erradicate them (looks like they failed!).

That reminds me of something.... would be cool to have the Old Ones mentioned or have a comeback! I think the current setting is quite optimal for such thing.

[DarkWingDuck]

2 hours ago, VBS said:

Maybe they now went along the fungus thing as in 40k, but in the Old World fluff, it is not clearly explained. They appear to be tied to the Old Ones, either as a failed creation or introduced by error/accident in some way. Saurus warriors were then created to erradicate them (looks like they failed!).

That reminds me of something.... would be cool to have the Old Ones mentioned or have a comeback! I think the current setting is quite optimal for such thing.

Skarsnik is very very clear, that in the Old World, Greenskins are fungus based. Prior to Skarsnik, they imply it (similar to how the Gloomspite Battletome implies it), but never outright state one way or the other (the Blood Bowl cheerleaders suggest the opposite though ... but Blood Bowl is a bit odd/loose with the fluff ... and those could also be cross dressing orcs ... hmm ... can you even cross dress if you don't have a gender?).

I could have sworn that one of the old Orc & Goblin Army Books has a bit where the Greenskins "fall from the sky" into the Darklands and that the Slaan hate them because they aren't in any of their prophecies. They are an unexpected nuisance.

I always thought that the fluff writers missed a beat when writing about Greenskins in the End Times/Age of Myth. Greenskins have a whole "duality" thing going on (what with Orcs & Goblins, Gork & Mork), that could've been threaded through the Greenskin's fate. Wurzag, Da Great Green Prophet,  should have been plagued with two competing visions, "A Waagh to End All Waaghs!!!" vs. "An Unending Waagh!!!" When he realized he was searching for 2 champions (one for Gork, one for Mork), he should have had a "Why not both!" moment. Wurrzag would then set Grimgor Ironhide to follow his wyrd to conquer the East and ultimately fight Archaon (i.e. "A Waagh to End All Waaghs!!!") Skarsnik, on the other hand, would have been instrumental in introducing Greenskins to the Mortal Realms (like the Old World ... they shouldn't have been native). In the throws of his depression at the loss of Gobbla and subtly guided by Mork (cunningly brutal remember), he should have modified the dud Skaven bomb and detonated it. Through the magic of mcguffins (i.e. so powerful it tears a hole through space and time) it would blast Skarsnik's horde to the Age of Myth Mortal Realms (i.e. "An Unending Waagh!!!"). Gork charges into the big brawl, while Mork makes sure Greenskins live to fight another day. Skarsnik doesn't get the "lame" ending he got, while it plays to the cyclical nature of events that was a theme running through all of the End Times stories.

[erasercrumbs]

I would like there to be an especially massive female Skaven model that's the size of a Tervigon and has Moulder attendants feeding her battlefield carrion with a shovel, surrounded by a frenzied swarm of blind, baby Skaven who are murderously famished and will drag down anything that gets close. 

If only I were skilled at converting, that would make a great Hell Pit Horror/Clawlord on Brood Horror alternative.

 

[Vasshpit]

On 4/16/2019 at 4:46 PM, DarkWingDuck said:

I could have sworn that one of the old Orc & Goblin Army Books has a bit where the Greenskins "fall from the sky" into the Darklands and that the Slaan hate them because they aren't in any of their prophecies. They are an unexpected nuisance.

This... is... awesome...

[Kramer]

On 4/13/2019 at 11:49 AM, IneptusAstartes said:

Personally I'd love to see female Kharadrons but that's probably not happening considering how much everyone likes their dwarfs "traditional". Sigh

Well that’s kind of the point of dwarfs... traditional. 

Read inferno ( number two I think) where the wanderer shares a table with others hiding from a storm. The dwarf in the group tells a tragedy starting with the romance of his brother and an princes. 

Basically it’s humans with different traditions  

[Eevika]

I like to imagine that the bad moon just makes grots pop out of the ground. I mean it has strange magical powers that makes massive ammounts of mushrooms grow where it goes so I think it would make sense that naked grots would start crawling out of the ground as well. This would also go with the old world idea of greenskins just appearing out of nowhere. 

[Carnelian]

There was a recent short story in white dwarf that involved female fyreslayers

[Whitefang]

On 4/16/2019 at 8:45 PM, VBS said:

Maybe they now went along the fungus thing as in 40k, but in the Old World fluff, it is not clearly explained. They appear to be tied to the Old Ones, either as a failed creation or introduced by error/accident in some way. Saurus warriors were then created to erradicate them (looks like they failed!).

That reminds me of something.... would be cool to have the Old Ones mentioned or have a comeback! I think the current setting is quite optimal for such thing.

They do

Edited September 18, 2019 by Whitefang

[Whitefang]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:06 PM, DarkWingDuck said:

Although I agree with you, that Greenskins are fungus based across all of the various GW games, there are some "female" (maybe?) Orc cheerleaders in Blood Bowl.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Well I believe the world setting of bb is a bit different from whfb and aos…

Not only in 40k but in whfb greenskinz are considered as fungus creatures 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Whitefang

[Myrdin]

Regarding Beastmen - there are lore backed lines stating that there are in fact female Beastmen. They are much tamer and docile than the war bred males, though they still dont care fo Civilization in itself, as that is the essential anathema to all Beastmen, and something thats instilled into them to hate on a genetical level by Chaos. 

Good example I can think off: There was a story of a female Chaos Champion who started as an abandoned baby, raised by female Beastmen. I also vaguely remember it was in one of the novels, maybe the Slayer series > the one where they fought Beastmen carrying a Herdstone that there was some mention of the Beastmen breeding at a high rate thus infesting the lands around them. Or something like that.

Also there is the fact that Beastmen can copulate with pretty much anything that has sexual way of procreation.

Ghorros Warhoof for example was a character described as the Father of Beasts, a Centigor warlord who pomfed anything and everything that wasnt fast enough (again... Centigor), couldnt fly, or climb up... in which case he pomfed the tree and some evil treant spawn was created (jk). He fathered all sorts of monstrosities, not just Centigors.

I believe in the 7th Edition Beastmen army book there was a mention that when the Chaos Moon is high in the sky the Beastmen have orgies around the Herdstone and such. But I am not completely sure about this, its been a while since I cracked that book open for the last time.

There are other lore snippets like these. Most of the are part of the Old world, but Beastmen aka Beasts of Chaos are one of those factions that fundamentally stayed pretty much the same as they were back in Warhammer Fantasy.

Essentially your "thesis" relies upon:  Because there is no model we dont know anything about it. Thats an incorrect assumption, as yes while there is no model, the Armybooks/Battletomes, and the expanded universe (novels, and games with official GW license) does answer some if not all these questions. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Myrdin

[Overread]

Honestly I think unless the lore specifically says otherwise then its best to assume most races repopulate via the most common male and female approach to reproduction (its been too long since school biology to remember what that is called, its got fancy name though). Just because we don't see warrior models doesn't mean there aren't females. Heck until more recent times many nations never fielded women on the battlefields themselves; they would be behind the scenes in medical roles or camp followers and support or far away at home etc... So in the greater melee chaos of combat it would mostly be men. 

 

Beatmen certainly have old world lore that speaks of females. Heck some of their earlier lore beastmen are just chaos corrupted humans, if I recall right it was a bit later that they split off into not just their own faction but a distinct identified race of peoples. 

[Myrdin]

57 minutes ago, Overread said:

Beatmen certainly have old world lore that speaks of females. Heck some of their earlier lore beastmen are just chaos corrupted humans, if I recall right it was a bit later that they split off into not just their own faction but a distinct identified race of peoples. 

The oldest lore states that first beastmen were mutated livestock and wildlife as well as human mutants.

Beastmen as a species are farily old, older than humans, and possibly as old as elves and dwarves, as they were essentially mutated animals, both life stock and wild life, created by the power of Chaos, and were around ever since Chaos made its entry into the mortal realm.

There were also beastmen tribes formed of human mutants. If a child was born with mutation, and the parents didnt have the strength to kill it, they abandoned it in the forest, where most of the times they would be adopted by raving bands of lesser beastmen and human mutants. So your memory does indeed not betray you on this one  

There was a lesser mutated Ungor character > Ungrol Four Horn, who led a band of ungors and human mutants, and hated everyone equally since he was cast out of his own tribe, thus forming a ravaging band of opportunists on his own. I remember that guy   75pts and could be taken only in a unit of Ungors and only in the same way as a unit champion could. And like most old 7the Armybook Beastmen heroes, he wasnt really worth it.

... This is one of the sad parts of BoC release - bunch of cool characters got squated. All the named ones, regardless of if they had miniatures or not. So much potential wasted. I was hoping to see Moonclaw son of Morshlieb riding Umbralok in AoS. Sigh..

There was even a short part in some older books, where they stated that Beastmen "evolve" to suit the fears of the people in that land.

Beastmen in the old world looked like goats and bulls, spurring huge horns and hooves as if to feed of the fear of the typical Satanic evil the people of the Empire associated the chaos with.

Meanwhile the Beastmen in the Kingdom of Ind resemble Tigers, Elephants and wildlife associated with that region. And funny enough not spurring horns, as that is not something the people of those lands found as "scary".  Thats how Chaos works ^^  It warps its chaotic children in a way to squeeze out the most delicious emotions of terror, anguish and hate from the mortals living in those lands.

**I also heard from a friend of mine there was a mention of Aquatic Beastmen in AoS. I mean it only makes sense for there to be some, but I dont know where this info was taken from. Maybe Idoneth battletome ?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Myrdin

[Overread]

We've had some aquatic lore. One of the Inferno books talks of undersea creatures which are basically sea versions of the sylvaneth, tending to kelp beds and coral instead of trees. They were said to have allies in merpeople and also great sea serpents as well (plus being a short story that likely was all there was room for). The realms certainly appear to have a wealth of potential sea races who could, one day, come ashore. Not all as the Idoneth with tehir sea magic; many would likely be capable of breathing both saltwater and air; or were always air breathers having to come to the surface to breath. 

That said its almost big enough to be its entire own world down there with its whole story, settings, lore and battles without ever coming ashore. 

[EccentricCircle]

The old WFRP books posit that Humans, Mutants, Beastmen, and Daemons don't actually fall into nice neat categories as most people would like. Instead they are a continuum.

Humans are the mostly un-mutated end of the spectrum.

Mutants have some mutation, but can mostly pass as more or less human. They are arguably the largest category.

Beastmen are the more bestial mutants, which kind of breed true, and so form distinct abhuman races.

Daemons are everything that has gone too far, and is no longer really a living being, but has been subsumed into a facet of a chaos god's will.

Anything can slip from one category into the next, if it gets close enough to warp energies, but going back is not nearly so easy...

[sal4m4nd3r]

On 4/13/2019 at 5:49 AM, IneptusAstartes said:

Sylvaneth: Come in various flavors, but they might not necessarily be male and female in the way we understand it (plant reproduction is fascinating). They also have a sort of pseudo-resurrection in the form of lamentiri.

I am an arborist IRL and can offer some insight into the Sylvaneth  portion of the OP.

Trees (on Earth anyway..) can be monoecious, diecious, or polygamodioecious. This means that a particular species can produce ONLY male flowers and will require a separate individual with ONLY female flowers to produce a seed (diecious), or a single individual can have both male and female flowers and can produce seed without any other individual (monoecious), OR a a specious can be be EITHER monoecious or diecious. 

Red maple (Acer rubrum) for example, is polygamodioecious. One maple tree may be ONLY male/female,  while the maple right next to it might have BOTH male and female flowers. So in regards to sylvaneth, it is unclear what particular species of tree they are, perhaps many different species. I know in LOTR, the ents are all different species and that is some sort of class system in their society. Perhaps that's the case with Sylvaneth? Regardless, its likely they reproduce in much the same fashion as trees on Earth (or the world that was) and have many different variety of tree species each with their own characteristics. 

Aside from gardeners/arborists, not many people can distinguish between tree species so perhaps thats why its not expressly written in the lore. If you are interested in both trees and miniatures (sometimes combined! See my Nurgle Army "Wicked Garden") follow me on instagram @alexandria_arborist - https://www.instagram.com/alexandria_arborist/)

Edited September 18, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[Ironbreaker]

I could imagine Kharadron marriage and reproduction involving lots of contracts between the two parties. An Arkanaut joining a company to get a share of aethergold to craft into a ring for his future wife would be a great story.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Ironbreaker

[khadgar567]

here is a scientific imposibilty skyvaneth orruk cross polunation due combat

 

[Shearl]

In regards to Duardin women, here's an excerpt from the Warcry: The Anthology, more specifically the Eight-Tailed Naga.

 

[Myrdin]

Rather than the duardin female I am more intrigued by the Naga child.

Now THAT has me interested!

[EccentricCircle]

A Naga faction would be really cool. There have always been rumours of Snake headed beastmen, but I'd kind of figured that the Daughters of Khaine had taken the snakeyness hat for themselves at this point.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, xking said:

I wonder if the Melusai  and the Khinerai can sexually reproduce with male aelves, so their existence won't be dependent on  Morathi and the souls from Slaanesh.

I've wondered this too. Especially considering how the souls are a finite resource and there is every chance that Slaanesh could escape or Nagash could jump in and try and intercept the souls etc... Ergo that the could be a point where the souls, in the story ,get shut off as a supply source. 

Now we know that Idoneth can reproduce and reproduce true to their species. The question would remain if the Khinerai and Melusai can reproduce with pure aelves (since far as we know Morathi makes all Khinerai and Melusai female). Another aspect might be that Morathi could keep a supply of souls stored in waiting; if the supply were interrupted would she fashion a few males to help keep her population going  and what might happen if they did breed within tehir own and establish themselves as a species. When offspring were born NOT from Morathi's creating hand

 

DoK are honestly a bit of a ticking time bomb because of how insanely controlling Morathi is over them (at least at the upper ranks and organisation of the faction). I could foresee a time where she could fall from grace or get challenged. Heck if Khaine ever manages to escape her hold over his heart and his supply of belief then that would be super interesting.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

7 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

A Naga faction would be really cool. There have always been rumours of Snake headed beastmen, but I'd kind of figured that the Daughters of Khaine had taken the snakeyness hat for themselves at this point.

Part of an “alternate” beastman warband I’m working on

[EccentricCircle]

4 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Part of an “alternate” beastman warband I’m working on

That looks great! I've just been painting some snake people for D&D purposes (mainly reaper and frostgrave models) so its presently a topic quite close to my heart!