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Thiagoma

AoS 2 - Aelves Discussion

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2019-07-02.jpg.02ba68ec78b5bbc7d24712ca622e2fb2.jpgya3vwoswdlx21.jpg.ecba18ce69d8d0635738838962754869.jpg2019-03-26.jpg.86b10a7b21f5c41800d9e9b25098b501.jpg2019-06-25.jpg.2d192414849df24790d4dab65373395f.jpg

Sooo this are the Elvish Rumor Engines. It looks a bit Wanderers, a bit High Elvish. 

Wonder if they plan to reduce the the visual gap between the 2 factions and group up everyone or if we will have a Wanderer release on the way.

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7 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

2019-07-02.jpg.02ba68ec78b5bbc7d24712ca622e2fb2.jpgya3vwoswdlx21.jpg.ecba18ce69d8d0635738838962754869.jpg2019-03-26.jpg.86b10a7b21f5c41800d9e9b25098b501.jpg2019-06-25.jpg.2d192414849df24790d4dab65373395f.jpg

Sooo this are the Elvish Rumor Engines. It looks a bit Wanderers, a bit High Elvish. 

Wonder if they plan to reduce the the visual gap between the 2 factions and group up everyone or if we will have a Wanderer release on the way.

It would at least make sense in that way that most of the aelfen factions from the old High Elves have wanderers as allies and vice versa. But it would be at best like the skaven battletome.

The Lion at least should be Underworld (otherwise it would have a larger base)

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20 hours ago, EMMachine said:

The Lion at least should be Underworld

It is. Gw said so when released the image.

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Local Tournament 2x2

 

I will be playing with my Wife´s DoK as a team and plan to bring a 1k Draconis force with 10 Dragonblades and 2 Dragonlords.  Planning on an Alpha Strike force while my wife hold the objectives and mop the remaining enemies.

A dragonlord with the horn and one with a shield. Shield one will get Ignax scales for extra saves.

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That alpha strike with a DoK swarm to take and hold objectives sounds like a pretty good combo tbh. Order Draconis is a one trick pony but rather good at that trick.

 

 

Starting a slow grow tomorrow with my Highborn at 750 - not a great list but I think it's about the best I can do with Highborn. Lack of unbinds is going to sting. 

 

Seawarden on foot (with flag),

10 Highborn Spearmen

10 Highborn Spearmen

10 Highborn Spearmen

30 Highborn Archers.

1 Celestar Ballista 

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11 hours ago, MrZakalwe said:

That alpha strike with a DoK swarm to take and hold objectives sounds like a pretty good combo tbh. Order Draconis is a one trick pony but rather good at that trick.

 

 

Starting a slow grow tomorrow with my Highborn at 750 - not a great list but I think it's about the best I can do with Highborn. Lack of unbinds is going to sting. 

 

Seawarden on foot (with flag),

10 Highborn Spearmen

10 Highborn Spearmen

10 Highborn Spearmen

30 Highborn Archers.

1 Celestar Ballista  

You probably know it but i will say it anyways. I took Highborn Spearmen as BL "tax" on my last event and they were useless. Got insta killed before doing anything other than holding objectives for 1 turn. They are THAT bad.

Do you have other models?

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Do you need 3 battleline units in 750 list? Spearmen are bad as is, but in small units they don't even get their attack bonus, which is like the only thing they have going for them... If you're going pure highborn it's not like you have that much of a choice, but spearmen make sense only in larger groups.

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My win condition is to keep the archers going for a couple of turns- at that points level if they don't get shut down quickly the other guy runs out of models. 

Though it's not optimal the logic on the third unit of spearmen was as follows:

1) Nastier stuff will explode a unit of 10 pretty much instantly but aside from double turns I should get a chance to nuke the thing that killed them (30 archers with Stand Your Ground + Storm of Arrows + Seadrake Pennant put out more than 45 no rend wounds on average in one shooting phase so it's pretty much just Morathi and Stormcast Invulnerodrakes that aren't affraid of them) - three units gives me three chances to block things. 

2) Later in the slowgrow I'll need three battleline units so I may as well get the little buggers painted now :D

3) I didn't really have anything else that fit neatly into the 90 point hole they leave. 

I'm trying to go pure Aelves with the exception of the Ballistas because there's quite a few nurgle players and losing three Eagleclaw crews to an allegiance ability at the start of battleround one, once was enough (really frustrating, as I'm sure you can imagine). 

As long as the crew can be separately targeted cannons/boltthrowers/organ guns are pretty much useless. 

Edited by MrZakalwe

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A way i found to field only Elves is to use GA Order and i use the Seaguard as Highborn Spearmen.

(local meta is 1250-1500 with 2 Battlelines)

It costs me 160 as "tax" but allows me to mix and match whatever high elf i want. It aint perfect but it works, because IMO:

Swifthwks are too weak overall, Phoenix Temple need Wizards to really shine, Order Draconis is good but repetitive AND your oponent knows exactly what you are gonna do, and Eldritch Council tends to work if you really like Swordmasters and Ally a frosty Phoenix. 

But when you mix and match, oh boy you can do some nasty stuff.

Try a Frosthearth Phoenix with Archmage bubble, Ignax scales, Loremaster buff, another caster (i use a Drakeseer for extra Havok) and if you feel really nasty, Master of Defense, and watch the enemy key units melting.

It is as dirty as it gets, 2+ save/4++/6++ and a 4+x mortal Wounds, re rolling all hits and wounds.

 

I usually do not pile up all i got on this strat tho. I rather use Legendary fighter and give the Artifact to the Drakeseer but still...

 

My local meta is made of about 30 players with all sorts of armies and i keep myself above average on every tournament i play. (usually 1 major victory, 1 minor victory and 1 loss).

 

 

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16 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

A way i found to field only Elves is to use GA Order and i use the Seaguard as Highborn Spearmen.

(local meta is 1250-1500 with 2 Battlelines)

It costs me 160 as "tax" but allows me to mix and match whatever high elf i want. It aint perfect but it works, because IMO:

Swifthwks are too weak overall, Phoenix Temple need Wizards to really shine, Order Draconis is good but repetitive AND your oponent knows exactly what you are gonna do, and Eldritch Council tends to work if you really like Swordmasters and Ally a frosty Phoenix. 

But when you mix and match, oh boy you can do some nasty stuff.

Try a Frosthearth Phoenix with Archmage bubble, Ignax scales, Loremaster buff, another caster (i use a Drakeseer for extra Havok) and if you feel really nasty, Master of Defense, and watch the enemy key units melting.

 It is as dirty as it gets, 2+ save/4++/6++ and a 4+x mortal Wounds, re rolling all hits and wounds.

 

 

I agree on the GA point, but i suggest to use Shardfist Pelt instead of Ignax Scales. You have already a lot of saves so you need to improve phoenix's offensive power. Also glade guards are not that bad as a tax. At least the do 2.5 wound each turn while sitting on the objective.

 

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7 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

I agree on the GA point, but i suggest to use Shardfist Pelt instead of Ignax Scales. You have already a lot of saves so you need to improve phoenix's offensive power. Also glade guards are not that bad as a tax. At least the do 2.5 wound each turn while sitting on the objective.

 

That artifact is a great idea!

 

For the Glade Guard, i dont know. 40 extra Points per BL for Glade Guard, that arent any good, sounds kinda of a waste.  At least my results with then were poor with the Arcane Bodkins. 

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I'm new to AoS and interested in Order Draconis. My understanding is that the lists* remain largely the same, even if the different elements had their points adjusted. I also see that the army is sort of a one trick pony, but is that a trick that can have several permutations depending on terrain and opponent, or is it just "can you go first and get the charge on turn 1?"

 

*Is there really more than one list at each points value?

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19 minutes ago, Pyrescribe said:

I'm new to AoS and interested in Order Draconis. My understanding is that the lists* remain largely the same, even if the different elements had their points adjusted. I also see that the army is sort of a one trick pony, but is that a trick that can have several permutations depending on terrain and opponent, or is it just "can you go first and get the charge on turn 1?"

 

*Is there really more than one list at each points value?

Hello there and Welcome!

I personally love Order Draconis (and i am painting my second Dragon right now!) and Dragon Blades are my favorite model in Warhammer.

 

When playing Order Draconis, there is 2 challenges: Lack of magic and Lack of bodies on the field.  You army WILL make a devastating charge on the enemy but after that all they will do is hold it at bay and kill a couple more, but you have to think about the Objectives. The choice of Horn and Shield is also an important one but do not fear, just magnetize the arms!

You do not need to get first turn, but you HAVE to get the charge onto the enemy.  If you get the Battalion you will move 24" in a round + charge!

I made a quick list for you and will explain my reasons on each item:

 

Dragonlord - General - Legendary Fighter (+1 attack for the lance) Lance/Horn

Artifact: Quicksilver potion (you go first? oh yes please)

 

Dragonlord - Lance and Shield

Artifact - Ignax Scales (4+ save x mortal wounds) (this guy with a shield and Ignax is gona be your endurance fella)

 

Dragon Noble - Banner, Shield and Weapon (your choice. This guy is there for the re roll on the charge and a best range on the command ability to reroll hits)

Loremaster - Ally  (can use a Unbind and his spell on the dragons will be amazing .Always run with this guy to keep him close, or replace him for a Archmage on Horse)

Dragon Blades x 10

Dragon Blades x10

Dragon Blades x5

Dragon blades x5

Phoenix Guard x 10 (ally)

Battalion - Dragonlord Host

total 2000/2000

 

I recommend not using more than 10 per unit because they wont all be able to hit the enemy. The 2 units of 10 plus one of 5 are part of the battalion along with the general.  The other unit of 5 and the Phoenix Guard are gona sit on objectives as needed.

 

Hope this help!

 

 

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Thanks for the quick reply! Would you say that paying for a second battalion isn't worth the points, since the outliers are going to be sitting objectives? Also, would shadow warriors work instead of PG?

Edited by Pyrescribe

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2 hours ago, Pyrescribe said:

Thanks for the quick reply! Would you say that paying for a second battalion isn't worth the points, since the outliers are going to be sitting objectives? Also, would shadow warriors work instead of PG?

A second battalion would be too expensive imo to cover only a Dragon and a unite of 5 Blades.

As for PG, you can place any unit instead. My recomendation for PG came because they can be resilient if attacked, even in a small group of 10.

If you like Shadow Warriors, go for it!

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On 7/12/2019 at 9:50 PM, Thiagoma said:

Hello there and Welcome!

I personally love Order Draconis (and i am painting my second Dragon right now!) and Dragon Blades are my favorite model in Warhammer.

 

When playing Order Draconis, there is 2 challenges: Lack of magic and Lack of bodies on the field.  You army WILL make a devastating charge on the enemy but after that all they will do is hold it at bay and kill a couple more, but you have to think about the Objectives. The choice of Horn and Shield is also an important one but do not fear, just magnetize the arms!

You do not need to get first turn, but you HAVE to get the charge onto the enemy.  If you get the Battalion you will move 24" in a round + charge!

I made a quick list for you and will explain my reasons on each item:

 

Dragonlord - General - Legendary Fighter (+1 attack for the lance) Lance/Horn

 Artifact: Quicksilver potion (you go first? oh yes please)

 

Dragonlord - Lance and Shield

Artifact - Ignax Scales (4+ save x mortal wounds) (this guy with a shield and Ignax is gona be your endurance fella)

 

Dragon Noble - Banner, Shield and Weapon (your choice. This guy is there for the re roll on the charge and a best range on the command ability to reroll hits)

Loremaster - Ally  (can use a Unbind and his spell on the dragons will be amazing .Always run with this guy to keep him close, or replace him for a Archmage on Horse)

Dragon Blades x 10

Dragon Blades x10

Dragon Blades x5

 Dragon blades x5

Phoenix Guard x 10 (ally)

 Battalion - Dragonlord Host

total 2000/2000

 

I recommend not using more than 10 per unit because they wont all be able to hit the enemy. The 2 units of 10 plus one of 5 are part of the battalion along with the general.  The other unit of 5 and the Phoenix Guard are gona sit on objectives as needed.

 

Hope this help!

 

 

Good list but illegal with 2 allies i think.

I can advice some optimiziation because you have to focus on having low drop as you want to start first:

Dragonlord - General - Legendary Fighter (+1 attack for the lance) Lance/Horn

 Artifact: Dimensional Blade (rend 4 here -> first selection always) or Quicksilver potion  (so you can select knights at first).

 

Dragonlord - Lance and Horn

Artifact - Dopplegenger cloack - Better substitute of potion

 

Dragon Blades x 10

Dragon Blades x10

Dragon Blades x10

Dragon Blades x5

 

Sisters of thorn x 5 - ally

 Battalion - Dragonlord Host

total 2000/2000 -> 4 drops 

 

Edited by Raffonerd

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38 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

Good list but illegal with 2 allies i think

Not really. This is a missconception on Allies. With 3 units you can place, an ally. So for 6 faction ome you have room for 2 more allies. 

Sisters of the Thorn are nice but the problem of holdong objectives remain.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Not really. This is a missconception on Allies. With 3 units you can place, an ally. So for 6 faction ome you have room for 2 more allies. 

Sisters of the Thorn are nice but the problem of holdong objectives remain.

 

 

Sisters can hold and buff the 10 knights that  are selected later or a Dragon. At least they can grab an object at 15". I don't think you might have better options. Maybe you should switch to mixed order as usual :)

 

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New battle report: i hate Tzeench

 

Duos tournament. 1k Each , i went Order Draconis, my Wife went DoK.

First game: enemy duo Tzeench and LoN.

I was bored beyond measure.  Total commitment screwed DoK Khirenais. And holy $@#% tzeench takes a month to end his Hero Phase. 

We shut down the LoN player but Tzeench popcorn summon horrors swarmed the table. We lost from the start, we only played 2 turns and my wife only got in combat with 1 unit, what made me upset for her not having fun after an hour drive to the club. 

Not a good start. Loss.

Second match : Guess what? Tzeench and Tzeench.

Archeon on the table and their fate dices had a lot of 6s. Really A LOT os 6s. I was salty. We were forced to go first and my wife army got swarmed. They got double turn, sooo...

It took us a lot of model removing and about an hour for us to actually play  ( no exageration) with what was left of our models.

The goal was hold objectives and burn the enemy ones. 

We actually did well with our khirenais deep striking an objective and my dragons burning another. 

Remember all those 6s? well archeon had a sweet time using his Slayer sword ( 2 6s instakill you, no saves) . I went for my wifes rescue, not really for the win, but so she could actually play the freaking game, but i forgot about the stupid 6s and my pimped out dragon was 1 shotted. 

At the end we scored well but lost because a badly wounded Archeon and summoning xenenigans.

Loss, but with some dignity (we Were actually winning on turn 2 and half of 3) . Would help if we didnt lose every single initiative in the tournament.

 

Third game: Khorne and Gutbusters

The losers table. They had low morale and so did we by this point. 

Objective: 4 points,  1 in base, 2 on middle giving 2 points and enemy one giving 4.

They went first but didnt reach the middle ones and i flew my dragon ad my wifes Melusai held the other. She 1x1 with the ogres but was taking a heavy hit. 

My Red Dragon was a trooper. Flew over the battlefield and killed the enemy Bloodthister on a single turn while my wifes witches wrecked his troops. 

The enemy Gutbuster boss wrecked her cauldron and melusai and i went for the rescue, clearing an entire unit of Gutbusters.

Their tyrant got hold of an objective with a single HP and i could see the glowing eyes on my evil wife as her Khinerais felt, killed it and rolled a 4 to move and sit pretty on the objective. My flanking horses arrived on a charge and mopped what was left of their models and we won. 

We were 4th on a 6 duo tournament because we scored a lot of victory points on the games, but the event overall was completly boring for us.

I miss the days when AoS wasnt about spamming the table with stuff endless models and actually about manuvering your troops in a smart way.

 

I love my local community but i am seriously considering to skip future events if i see a lot of summoning heavy armies on the pool. To wake up at 6 am, drive 2h for a 10 hour event where you actually play 30 min is not really worthy imo.

 

Still salty lol

 

 

 

Edited by Thiagoma
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Hi guys, 

what do you think about this list here? I'm rebuilding my wanderers army (from wood elfs).

Allegiance: Order - Mortal Realm: Shyish


LEADERS


Nomad Prince (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Strategic Genius
 - Artefact : Ethereal Amulet
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Wayfinder (80)
Wayfinder (80)
Wayfinder (80)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- Artefact : Wraithbow


UNITS
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (210)
5 x Wild Riders (100)
30 x Phoenix Guard (360)


BATTALIONS
Waystone Pathfinders (160)

 3 -DROPS TOTAL: 2000/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 127
LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

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Hello there!

 

I do not play Wanderers but use some units. My knowledge is limited so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

 

This list uses a lot of Wanderers but not the alligiance, so it loses a lot of punch and manouvering. If you are assembling a list with what you got, by all means, go for it, if not, you should look for better synergies. The huge amount of 10 units guy will hurt since they lose the 20+ bonus and are barely effective, specially outside the Wanderers alligence. 

 

Blocks of 30 Phoenix Guard, IMO get easily stuck with tarpits. i rather use small ones myself. Usually 1 x10 and 1 x 20. The first to hold objectives and the second to go melee.

 

If you play this list, send us a feedback later!

 

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Back to Order Draconis: is it fun to play with it against? Or is it just the same battle over and over again?

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Hummm i  am biased because i love the models, but Draconis is all about charging well.

 

They are freaking amazing if they hit the charge. THAT SAID, the Blades hit like wet noodles after their charge and the Dragons are usually doing the sustained damaged afterwards.

The issues start with holding objectives and dealing with summons. We dont, that is the issue lol.

 

I think i rather use Draconis guys into a GA Order army and get extra bodies to use as chaff and objective holders while the horses and dragons keep the bad guys away. Also, have a wizard in the army help a lot.

 

Got any plans or ideas? Share with the class!

 

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On 7/16/2019 at 1:03 AM, Thiagoma said:

Hummm i  am biased because i love the models, but Draconis is all about charging well.

 

They are freaking amazing if they hit the charge. THAT SAID, the Blades hit like wet noodles after their charge and the Dragons are usually doing the sustained damaged afterwards.

The issues start with holding objectives and dealing with summons. We dont, that is the issue lol.

 

I think i rather use Draconis guys into a GA Order army and get extra bodies to use as chaff and objective holders while the horses and dragons keep the bad guys away. Also, have a wizard in the army help a lot.

 

Got any plans or ideas? Share with the class!

 

Let's start with the principle that "GA order is always better then any order army without rules". This principle doesn't consider the fact that the list can be a bunch of different models and can be aesthetically ugly.

A will explain better my GA list with wanderers. For sure the idea was to play aelfs. :)

About Draconis I can say that 1 battalion with 2x5 Blades and Dlord with ethereal amulet it's one of the best picks for a GA Order army.

Edited by Raffonerd

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