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AoS 2 - Aelves Discussion


Thiagoma

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39 minutes ago, dekay said:

I would be perfectly happy if large part of current aelves were rolled into expanded free cities, but it's entirely possible they will go Gloomspite route and just give Hysh a few new units and build the rest out of the old kits. I can live with both, especially if nothing disappears.

 

 

Well, they've said they want to update all existing factions within the next two years.  I'm curious to see if any new faction allegiance abilities appear in the GHB 2019 and whether they've changed Wanderers again.  

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10 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Well, they've said they want to update all existing factions within the next two years.  I'm curious to see if any new faction allegiance abilities appear in the GHB 2019 and whether they've changed Wanderers again.  

I hope so, afterall most of the armies who had an allegiance there, are now available with a battletome.

there should be enough space to squeeze a few more allegiance ability’s into the book.

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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6 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Isnt it kinda Odd to see Teclis  mentioned a lot in the Lore, whileTyrion is barely mentioned?

Maybe, and it would make some sense, coupled with the fact that Teclis' army was described as martial orders plus some spirits it means that he gets old high elves plus some new things, while Tyrion, who is supposedly creating his own thing, will get a proper idoneth level weirdness later? And due to more work needed on his line hes not mentioned much because it still needs time?

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18 hours ago, Aelven supremacy said:

This is the route I believe they will/should go down.   Having the existing Aelven kits just be Teclis’, Tyrion’s and Malerion’s “new” armies would demonstrate such a paucity of imagination.  Make the existing kits useable by having them as Free Peoples/ Devoted of Sigmar etc with Dwarves and Humans.   Build completely new Aelven beasts and supersoldiers for Hysh and Ulgu.   They are being designed by gods!!!  If Sigmar can make Stormcast then Teclis, Tyrion and Malerion can make something new, different and elite too.  Teclis has already demonstrated this with Idoneth!

personally I would like a mixture, some of the existing aelves absorbed into the new aelf factions (specifically i would like swift hawks in with light aelves and order serpentis with shadow aelves) and others with free people (specifically Phoenix temple) and then for wanderers to be their own thing.

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6 hours ago, dekay said:

Maybe, and it would make some sense, coupled with the fact that Teclis' army was described as martial orders plus some spirits it means that he gets old high elves plus some new things, while Tyrion, who is supposedly creating his own thing, will get a proper idoneth level weirdness later? And due to more work needed on his line hes not mentioned much because it still needs time?

Is a good guess. Current line and a few new models would be perfect to me.

5 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

 

personally I would like a mixture, some of the existing aelves absorbed into the new aelf factions (specifically i would like swift hawks in with light aelves and order serpentis with shadow aelves) and others with free people (specifically Phoenix temple) and then for wanderers to be their own thing.

That would be kinda of a bummer. Lets say they mix up Free Peoples, Dispossessed and Elves. I dont think any of those groups  waiting for a BT would be pleased, specially  Elves, since we lack a generic battleline, so you would need to have free guild or Dwarfs in the front. 

I dont think spliting Order Draconis, Phoenix Temple, Swifthawks, Lion Rangers and Eldritch Council , all who share the same visual identity would be in our best interest.

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4 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Question:

A Dragon noble holding the Banner fights using wich weapon?

Banner seems to be a bonus not interfering with weapons, so it looks like he fights with whatever he wants.

 

1 hour ago, Jetengine said:

I'm concerned about my Elderitch Council. To be exact that they'll get squatted since the Swordmasters are Resin.

Mages and Loremaster are plastic though, so there's hope. And, paradoxically, the dawnspire conundrum makes me think that there's a chance for swordmasters - they were published in a set marketed as something specifically for AoS (I know that same can be said about poison mortar, but it's just one easily proxable model, not the whole set of units) and if dawnspire elves just randomly disappeared, it could create some outrage. As spireguard face the same problem and share a lot of aestethic, who knows, dual spireguard/swordmaster [or at least very similar units] for Teclis' army would make some sense.

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1 hour ago, dekay said:

Mages and Loremaster are plastic though, so there's hope. And, paradoxically, the dawnspire conundrum makes me think that there's a chance for swordmasters - they were published in a set marketed as something specifically for AoS (I know that same can be said about poison mortar, but it's just one easily proxable model, not the whole set of units) and if dawnspire elves just randomly disappeared, it could create some outrage. As spireguard face the same problem and share a lot of aestethic, who knows, dual spireguard/swordmaster [or at least very similar units] for Teclis' army would make some sense. 

They would have to be brand new models i am afraid. Gw wont cut every sprue and they are all mixed up.  Swordmasters may stay because of the old ones, but that should be about it.

It is a shame, i love those models.

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That's what I meant - I could possibly see a new kit of Teclis' infantry being a dual build of greatswords and spear/bow. Not necssarily just new swordmasters/spireguard, but their obvious descendants.

Among thing the current line lacks, basic core infantry is an obvious hole that needs to be plugged, because unless we see a sudden demotion of white lions and phoenix guard we don't have anything to fill that role.

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1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

With the current increase in power level, i think Phoenix Guard, Dragon Blades and Shadow Warriors could easily be Battleline units.

Maybe, like skaven, battleline being chosen by wich general you choose.

Dragon blades and shadow warriors yes, and perhaps eternal guard, corsairs and drakespawn knights. 

Phoenix guard are pretty nasty even being a conditional battleline unit, I don’t think them being a basic battleline would be particularly balanced. 

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Compare Phoenix Guard with Witch Elves that make a huge numbem of attacks , cost cheaper and can jave save after save.

 

In the game current stage, i think it would be fine. The old +4 +4 save 5 battlelines that do nothing doesnt really have a place in aos anymore.

Plus they cost 140, i think it would be fine.

 

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Alright, fellow Aelven generals, I have an idea to test out and need your opinion. I know that we're playing a losing battle just by choosing our faction, so I know it probably won't win against modern armies. What I aim for is more of an 'what the hell?!' reaction from unprepared opponent with unplayable aelves going out with a bang.

Basically list is built around alpha strike. Statistically speaking, it forces around 40 saves from shooting in the first round, with enough movement and range to ensure they have something to fire at. It follows up with nearly guaranteed 1st turn charges with relatively strong hitting things. I saw that general consensus is that 1st turn tends to be uneventful and its often better to go second to increase the chance for double turn. This army goes completely against it, aiming to eliminate support units in the alpha strike and then take the now weakened retaliation to the face reducing losses with their defensive buffs.

Of course, then it likely dies from enemy units *still* being stronger, but the shock from the first turn will at least be memorable ; )

For purpose of the discussion let's assume that dawnspire battalion is legal here, as if it was an official GW tournament. Let's also assume that I can't use swifthawk battlelines in free city army, because that also seems do be a contentious matter.

2000 pts, Tempest's Eye allegiance.

Skywarden with pennant (general, strategic genious)

Skywarden with pennant

High Warden (quicksliver potion)

*High Warden (gryph feather charm)

*Archmage (steed)

BATTLELINE:

Freeguild guard (10)

Freeguild Archers (10)

*Reavers (10)

UNITS:

*Spireguard (30)

*Swordmasters (10)

Shadow Warriors (10)

BATTALION

Guardians of the Dawnspire (everything marked with '*' )

Skywardens have enough aura range to ensure everything wounds on 2+ at the start of the game.  They're also pretty tanky as far as elf can be, especially with +1 save bonus in 1st round. Especially that being (somehow) neither a behemoth or warmachine, they seem to benefit from look out sir normally.

High Wardens have, with Tempest's Eye bonus and command skills, 18+6+2d6(re-rolled) +6 threat range. They're there to murder something generating offensive buffs for enemy units. One being part of the battalion has a charm, so is at -1 to hit. It's a bit of a trap, as I don't really expect him to live, but as he's necessary for using battalion's skill, together with defensive bonus, opponent might prioritise killing him wasting some extra attacks on what is basically a homing missile. If he somehow survives, even better.

Archmage tries to put up a shield at safe distance from any unbinders, then repositions to provide cover for the force. With 16 move he will be where he needs to.

Freeguild guard are here for battleline purposes and as a sad meatshield. They're can save some hits and are the cheapest option I have.

Freeguild archers get their extra move, which together with 1st round speed bonus guarantees they have some target to put a wound on. They would aim for something that aelf shooters didn't managed to kill and left it standing on 1 wound.

Reavers: 30 4+/2+ shots is a lot of wounds. They can follow up with a charge where they provide 11 more 4+/2+ attacks and 20 4+/3+ from buffed horses. Their initial threat range is 16+2d6+16 range for shooting and 16+2d6+2d6 [rerolled] for charge.

Other units:

Spireguard: They rely on dawnspire double move to do that, but together with speed bonus, they have 8+8+16 initial threat range and provide 30 4+[rr 1's]/2+ shots. And after that their shield together with save bonus give them some survivability. 

[note* if Dawnspire warden survives until my second round somehow, either spireguard or reavers might get to shoot twice. Not counting on it, but it's a possibility]

Swordmasters: battalion requirement, bravery bonus for spireguard, 3+ re-rollable save for tanking initial shots. One of the few units actually ment for use AFTER the 1st turn ends.

Shadow Warriors: Like freeguild archers only way better with more pre game move, 2+ wounding and possibly rerolling hits. Might be enough to kill a softer hero by themselves.

 

TACTICS:

As said before: aim for the 1st turn (I'm at 7 drops. Not terrible. Also, counting on opponents giving away 1st turn due to underestimating an underpowered force ), inflict as much damage as possible concentrating first on buffers then on low save horde units to reduce their numbers and any bonuses they might get from large unit size, endure whatever comes in response, proceed to die in war of attrition but leaving the other player with 'what just happened?' state of mind. What say ye?

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If your wanting to Alpha strike frankly I think something like this might work a bit better

Shooty/charge alpha Allegiance: Order - Mortal Realm: Hysh

LEADERS:
Dragonlord (340) - Shield & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Seawarden on Foot (100) - Artefact : Lens of Refraction
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Archmage (100) - Steed

UNITS
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)

WAR MACHINES
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)

BATTALIONS Dragonlord Host (130)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 103 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 4/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

The Dragonlord Host give you an alpha strike superior to your High warden.  The Dragonlord with its double move has a 28" movement plus charge and is a much nastier attacker.

The Dragonblades aren't bad as well though they lack a bit of punch. 

3 Units of Reavers give you some mobile skirmishers to pick off weakened unit or harass characters.

The prize however is the Battery of bolt throwers with the Sea-warden and Lord ordinator each gets 12 AP -1 shots hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s. And you can reroll hits and wounds if you use the Seawardens command ability (Though it can't move if you do)

I take the lens so if someone tries and drop a bunch of mortal wounds bombs on your little pack before you can snipe their spellcasters you can pop the lens to reduce the damage and hopefully keep them functioning.

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:06 PM, Aelfric said:

What I find more interesting is the mention of Devoted of Sigmar.  Though a bit off topic, a reworking could include Aelves, and Duardin.

Can anybody tell me what the text for devoted of sigmar says, i can't quite make it out.

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On 5/23/2019 at 12:07 PM, Enochi said:

If your wanting to Alpha strike frankly I think something like this might work a bit better

Shooty/charge alpha Allegiance: Order - Mortal Realm: Hysh

LEADERS:
Dragonlord (340) - Shield & Dragon Lance - Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Seawarden on Foot (100) - Artefact : Lens of Refraction
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Archmage (100) - Steed

UNITS
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)
5 x Reavers (140)

WAR MACHINES
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)
Highborn Repeater Bolt Thrower (120)

BATTALIONS Dragonlord Host (130)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 103 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 4/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

The Dragonlord Host give you an alpha strike superior to your High warden.  The Dragonlord with its double move has a 28" movement plus charge and is a much nastier attacker.

The Dragonblades aren't bad as well though they lack a bit of punch. 

3 Units of Reavers give you some mobile skirmishers to pick off weakened unit or harass characters.

The prize however is the Battery of bolt throwers with the Sea-warden and Lord ordinator each gets 12 AP -1 shots hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s. And you can reroll hits and wounds if you use the Seawardens command ability (Though it can't move if you do)

I take the lens so if someone tries and drop a bunch of mortal wounds bombs on your little pack before you can snipe their spellcasters you can pop the lens to reduce the damage and hopefully keep them functioning.

The list can pack a punch but doesnt have that many objective holders. Can be a problem.

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On 5/23/2019 at 9:14 AM, dekay said:

Alright, fellow Aelven generals, I have an idea to test out and need your opinion. I know that we're playing a losing battle just by choosing our faction, so I know it probably won't win against modern armies. What I aim for is more of an 'what the hell?!' reaction from unprepared opponent with unplayable aelves going out with a bang.

Basically list is built around alpha strike. Statistically speaking, it forces around 40 saves from shooting in the first round, with enough movement and range to ensure they have something to fire at. It follows up with nearly guaranteed 1st turn charges with relatively strong hitting things. I saw that general consensus is that 1st turn tends to be uneventful and its often better to go second to increase the chance for double turn. This army goes completely against it, aiming to eliminate support units in the alpha strike and then take the now weakened retaliation to the face reducing losses with their defensive buffs.

Of course, then it likely dies from enemy units *still* being stronger, but the shock from the first turn will at least be memorable ; )

For purpose of the discussion let's assume that dawnspire battalion is legal here, as if it was an official GW tournament. Let's also assume that I can't use swifthawk battlelines in free city army, because that also seems do be a contentious matter.

2000 pts, Tempest's Eye allegiance.

Skywarden with pennant (general, strategic genious)

Skywarden with pennant

High Warden (quicksliver potion)

*High Warden (gryph feather charm)

*Archmage (steed)

BATTLELINE:

Freeguild guard (10)

Freeguild Archers (10)

*Reavers (10)

UNITS:

*Spireguard (30)

*Swordmasters (10)

Shadow Warriors (10)

BATTALION

Guardians of the Dawnspire (everything marked with '*' )

Skywardens have enough aura range to ensure everything wounds on 2+ at the start of the game.  They're also pretty tanky as far as elf can be, especially with +1 save bonus in 1st round. Especially that being (somehow) neither a behemoth or warmachine, they seem to benefit from look out sir normally.

High Wardens have, with Tempest's Eye bonus and command skills, 18+6+2d6(re-rolled) +6 threat range. They're there to murder something generating offensive buffs for enemy units. One being part of the battalion has a charm, so is at -1 to hit. It's a bit of a trap, as I don't really expect him to live, but as he's necessary for using battalion's skill, together with defensive bonus, opponent might prioritise killing him wasting some extra attacks on what is basically a homing missile. If he somehow survives, even better.

Archmage tries to put up a shield at safe distance from any unbinders, then repositions to provide cover for the force. With 16 move he will be where he needs to.

Freeguild guard are here for battleline purposes and as a sad meatshield. They're can save some hits and are the cheapest option I have.

Freeguild archers get their extra move, which together with 1st round speed bonus guarantees they have some target to put a wound on. They would aim for something that aelf shooters didn't managed to kill and left it standing on 1 wound.

Reavers: 30 4+/2+ shots is a lot of wounds. They can follow up with a charge where they provide 11 more 4+/2+ attacks and 20 4+/3+ from buffed horses. Their initial threat range is 16+2d6+16 range for shooting and 16+2d6+2d6 [rerolled] for charge.

Other units:

Spireguard: They rely on dawnspire double move to do that, but together with speed bonus, they have 8+8+16 initial threat range and provide 30 4+[rr 1's]/2+ shots. And after that their shield together with save bonus give them some survivability. 

[note* if Dawnspire warden survives until my second round somehow, either spireguard or reavers might get to shoot twice. Not counting on it, but it's a possibility]

Swordmasters: battalion requirement, bravery bonus for spireguard, 3+ re-rollable save for tanking initial shots. One of the few units actually ment for use AFTER the 1st turn ends.

Shadow Warriors: Like freeguild archers only way better with more pre game move, 2+ wounding and possibly rerolling hits. Might be enough to kill a softer hero by themselves.

 

TACTICS:

As said before: aim for the 1st turn (I'm at 7 drops. Not terrible. Also, counting on opponents giving away 1st turn due to underestimating an underpowered force ), inflict as much damage as possible concentrating first on buffers then on low save horde units to reduce their numbers and any bonuses they might get from large unit size, endure whatever comes in response, proceed to die in war of attrition but leaving the other player with 'what just happened?' state of mind. What say ye?

I think you will have a really hard time with this list.  A lot of small units without a punch to it.  I would sugest reducing Reavers to 5 and shadow warriors, to increase the unit size on those Swordmasters.  30 of those can be scary.

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Hello People!

 

Need some help! Going to a tournament using Vanguard rules but 1500 points!

I have ALL High Elf units, so plenty to choose from.  Among then:

3 Phoenix (2 ice 1 fire)

2 Dragons (both options)

50 Phoenix Temple

20 Seaguard (can be used to proxy any of the spear units)

30 Swordmasters

3 Bolt Thrower (can be used as celestar ballista as well)

 

 

also 40 Glade Guard, 20 Reavers, 5 Sisters of the Thorn and at least one of each other unit in the current high elf line and the malign sorcery spells.

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Came up with the followong list:

Vanguard 1500 pts.

 

Heroes

Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix 

Dragonlord (lance and shield)

Loremaster

Archmage 

 

Battlelines

Highborn spearmen x 10

Highborn spearmen x10

 

Artillerie 

Celestar Ballista x2

 

Units

Phoenix Guard x20.

 

Gameplay: Both the casters have good spells so i decided to go without Endless spells.  Loremaster can be used to boost the big guys or a Ballista, while the Archmage will keep up with the Phoenix and Dragon.

The Dragon and Phoenix will be the there to keep the enemy busy, the Spearmen to hold objectives and the Guard to screen against enemy units charging key points or to hold their ground on objectives as needed.

Ballistas will try and take down key targets such as 5 hp heroes and reduce the potential of ebemy behemoth. 

 

Now i still have to decide who will get the artifact. Considering Ignax on the Dragonlord, and the Phoenix as general. 

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On 5/24/2019 at 5:47 PM, Thiagoma said:

The list can pack a punch but doesnt have that many objective holders. Can be a problem.

Well he wanted an Alpha strike list. So thats what a gave him. Also don't underestimate the mobility of that list to snatch far objectives. 

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