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Dead Scribe

Seraphon the new Adepticon Champions

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Seraphon seem to have won Adepticon with the old spam summoning chestnut.  It was good to see an army with no real modern book with one of the biggest tournaments there is, that will hopefully show that you don't need the latest book to be viable or win tournaments necessarily and that power creep is not really valid either.

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Posted (edited)

I think what it continues to show is that nearly anyone has a shot at these events if they're both skilled and lucky. As always, single tournament results don't really mean much in the grand scheme of faction "power." But we really shouldn't be obsessed about that anyway.

Edited by Mutton
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

To be fair, he didn't play any of the "power creep" armies... But still... Incredible GT by him! Sounds like he played well! 

Interview with him from HonestWargamer

 

This is the point I came here to make. Congrats to him for sure. Winning a 5 round event is very difficult. Lord knows I have tried and failed many times. But it takes a certain amount of luck. And I dont mean good dice rolls. Its the path to victory. Not the toughness of the opponents, because that's how A Swiss style tournament deals with that.. but the matchups. You can play great opponents, but if you have decent matchups or avoid the gristlegores, nagash, and witch aelf spam then you have that edge. 

For example.. I recently played in a 16? team RTT (3 round - one day) where I came in second, but my opponents average record was 1-3.  I was more then happy to take the store credit, but was under no illusion that I was the second best player that day. Far from it. 

 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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I've been telling people that Thunderquake is a top tier list for a long time, good to see it finally take 1st at a major event

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:
11 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

To be fair, he didn't play any of the "power creep" armies... But still... Incredible GT by him! Sounds like he played well! 

Interview with him from HonestWargamer

 

This is the point I came here to make. Congrats to him for sure. Winning a 5 round event is very difficult. Lord knows I have tried and failed many times. But it takes a certain amount of luck. And I dont mean good dice rolls. Its the path to victory. Not the toughness of the opponents, because that's how A Swiss style tournament deals with that.. but the matchups. You can play great opponents, but if you have decent matchups or avoid the gristlegores, nagash, and witch aelf spam then you have that edge. 

For example.. I recently played in a 16? team RTT (3 round - one day) where I came in second, but my opponents average record was 1-3.  I was more then happy to take the store credit, but was under no illusion that I was the second best player that day. Far from it. 

 

It sounded like he actually played some pretty rock hard lists. Rd 2 was Legion Of Nagash Sacrament list, Rd 3 was the Stormcast gun line, Rd 4 was the Beastmen new build that has won a bunch of events in the UK and Rd 5 was a standard rock hard Daughters list.  Sure he did not face FEC or the new Skaven but that sounds like a pretty hard gauntlet to run.

 

Edited by TheWilddog
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There’s hardly any competition in any sport or game in the world where a tournament is won by beating rock hard opponent after rock hard opponent.  In many instances it’s not even an indication of being the best team/player in the world or region whatever, just one of them.

But it is always an indication of someone’s capacity to be good at all aspects of the game and crucially, consistent. 

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Now here I was told (on this very forum even) that if you don't have an AoS 2 book you can't even possibly compete against the power creep! What gives?!

/sarcasm 

Glad to see Seraphon take down a top spot with a solid list. I hate that I missed ACon this year but it looked like a great show and Mr. Gould did an excellent job piloting his list to the top spot. 

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I'm surprised that people are surprised. Seraphon has been a consistently strong army for the past two years 😛

This is not an underdog achievement. 

But it -is- an achievement in general, so well played whoever brought them to the top ;)

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Posted (edited)

---Double posterino---

Edited by Mayple

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I think anyone paying attention knew that Seraphon had the ability to perform this well, it was just the matter of finding the right player and build. I've seen plenty of Lizard lists do extremely well over time (I think last year's Adepticon there was one in the top 10), and with new summoning and realm rules they're quite powerful. They also have a good matchup into some of the meta builds out there, just due to their number of bodies and solid Monster units.

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2 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

It sounded like he actually played some pretty rock hard lists. Rd 2 was Legion Of Nagash Sacrament list, Rd 3 was the Stormcast gun line, Rd 4 was the Beastmen new build that has won a bunch of events in the UK and Rd 5 was a standard rock hard Daughters list.  Sure he did not face FEC or the new Skaven but that sounds like a pretty hard gauntlet to run.

 

Right. I literally said its about match-ups. I dont know the seraphon list, or the lists of his opponents. So I cant analyze the matchups. I was just making a general point, about armies and events in general. Was not disparaging the winner. He deserves nothing but kudos and praise for his achievement. 

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I took third overall with my Seraphon last year and in several tournaments in the last year and I think one of the crucial things that helped Seraphon at Acon this year was that we didnt play Places of Arcane Power or the other similar scenario.   That was always the one scenario that Seraphon falls down on and it is great to see what a Seraphon army can do without a battleplan that lets Nagash/Alarielle stand in the middle of the board to win

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7 minutes ago, adamtrunzo said:

I took third overall with my Seraphon last year and in several tournaments in the last year and I think one of the crucial things that helped Seraphon at Acon this year was that we didnt play Places of Arcane Power or the other similar scenario.   That was always the one scenario that Seraphon falls down on and it is great to see what a Seraphon army can do without a battleplan that lets Nagash/Alarielle stand in the middle of the board to win

If you don't have the focus fire to drop Nagash or Alarielle then your list isn't ready for tournaments :P

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On 3/31/2019 at 10:06 PM, Calebexnihilo said:

To be fair, he didn't play any of the "power creep" armies... But still... Incredible GT by him! Sounds like he played well! 

Interview with him from HonestWargamer

 

I think you're absolutely wrong about this, like it was mentioned above he played some of the best armies out there, if you can beat a daughters army being piloted with one of the best players out there (Chai I think? ) you have the ability to beat anyone else piloting fec or skaven. He deserves every bit of that win. No ifs, ands, buts, or asterisks. 

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I mean - I'd consider that seraphon army to be equally top tier in terms of build power goes.  Its not like its a weak gimp list.  That army absolutely runs havoc where I am as well.  Its very potent and is more than a match for FEC or skaven or any of the other "power creep" armies.  

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17 minutes ago, LJ26 said:

I think you're absolutely wrong about this, like it was mentioned above he played some of the best armies out there, if you can beat a daughters army being piloted with one of the best players out there (Chai I think? ) you have the ability to beat anyone else piloting fec or skaven. He deserves every bit of that win. No ifs, ands, buts, or asterisks. 

That wasn't my point. OP mentioned power creep armies... Of which he didn't face any.

As a seraphon player, this guy is my new hero! Every GT has a lot of luck to it and you play the armies you get matched against. Getting SCE on total Commitment was a blessing. Getting Game 5 cut short was big. 

He played a ballsy GT by deep striking the Slan, etc. He deserves all the credit in the world! 

 

But that doesn't negate the obvious AOS power creep right now.... 

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15 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

I mean - I'd consider that seraphon army to be equally top tier in terms of build power goes.  Its not like its a weak gimp list.  That army absolutely runs havoc where I am as well.  Its very potent and is more than a match for FEC or skaven or any of the other "power creep" armies.  

Statistics tell a different story... Which is why winning Adepticon is such an outlier for the army. 

https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-stats-1st-april/

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Statistics tell a different story... Which is why winning Adepticon is such an outlier for the army. 

https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-stats-1st-april/

Ayyy! I didn't know there was such a comprehensive international statistic :D Sweet. I'm that singular Gloomspite representation in the winners circle statistic. We exist

Surprised to see Hosts of Slaanesh contend with the best of em. Good on them! 

Seraphon hasn't neccesarily been regularly placing top 3, but it tends to hover around top 10. I don't know if they're strongly represented though (in terms of high-level competitive players to casual players ratio), to my knowledge - top players are a bit busy rolling around with other armies - but their tools are -strong-, make no mistake. It's an interesting statistic though that the Seraphon armies tend to win up to 3 matches "regularly", but then their statistic drops drastically for that 4th/5th win. 

Edit: I do know Seraphon has some problems with dealing with a fair bit of the current "meta" factions though, so there might be something to that.

Thanks for linking ;)

Edited by Mayple
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Seraphon also don't seem to be very represented at all.  If you don't have many people taking the army to begin with, it stands to reason they won't have as many chances to place top overall in the numbers game.  Kind of like the guy with 20 raffle tickets has a better chance of winning over the guy with just one.

A lot of that could easily be that they don't have a modern book and have older models rather than the army is weak and shouldn't have won tournaments.

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Also playing for no combat board control is very difficult and takes a thorough understanding of exactly what your list can do but also what the opponent can do. Many players can't play at this level. I would say even Seraphons strongest builds aren't easy to play.

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Chai would have crushed him if the game didn’t get cut short. The final game of the tourney shouldn’t have a time-limit. Anticlimactic. Also, you tell me who hold this center objective? Daughters? Or Seraphon?

the only mistake Chai made here was accepting that his opponent had taken this objective turn 1. And excellent opponent, no doubt. But won due to luck and a small oversight. I guess at that level of play even a small slip-up is damning.

32B4E9D0-39F8-4D3C-B615-3083D3DC088D.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

Seraphon also don't seem to be very represented at all.  If you don't have many people taking the army to begin with, it stands to reason they won't have as many chances to place top overall in the numbers game.  Kind of like the guy with 20 raffle tickets has a better chance of winning over the guy with just one.

A lot of that could easily be that they don't have a modern book and have older models rather than the army is weak and shouldn't have won tournaments.

It is literally a top 10 played army but has a bottom 10 win percentage.

https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-stats-1st-april/

 

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