Draakur Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Howdy folks, I’m looking towards playing a lower model count army, and was curious who everyone considers competitively viable when using big approach? I know of FEC Gristlegore, who else are people seeing as strong contenders these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 My picks would be: FEC: Gristlegore SCE: Grav-Bomb Deepkin: Eels LoN: 30 Grim + Arch + Nagash + 2x5 Dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankelton Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Svnv's list s pretty good. Though I would warn that not all these armies may be the most future proof. As some may see a shakeup when the next GHB comes out. If your looking for a general army that is fairly elite, not gristlegore elite, but fairly low on models. You can't go wrong with Stormcast eternal. Being the prime faction that moves the narrative in AoS you can always expect regular updates and to hold fairly steady as a gatekeeper faction. Well model number may vary from list to list, SCE at their core are an elite army without really any options for chaff. Deepkin are also great if you like the aesthetic, as even if Eel lists are knocked down their army is established at being fairly elite. Similiar at least to SCE numbers. Another army to watch, well not competitive, is BCR. They are due for a book and their range is established as one of the most elite forces #er's wise in the mortal realms. But then again, this is discounting the current meta. I prefer to look at what the range could do, rather then what it may be doing right this second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Shankelton said: Though I would warn that not all these armies may be the most future proof. As some may see a shakeup when the next GHB comes out. 100% becareful when spamming anything. One FAQ or GH repoint and those all could lose their competitive edge. Like what was said above if aren’t planning to flip the army and purchase new stuff to “chase the meta” it’s a much better idea to look at the overall theme of an army. SCE will always be decent and low models. FEC blisterkin seems like a really nice army. BCR could be amazing if done to FEC power level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 Yep ok. Chasing the theme of the army and whether they’re a typically lower model force generally does make sense. I’ve liked the idea of a low model SCE army, but not a lot of the stuff I like seems to be considered competitive right now. Always hard to gauge I guess, when things are always being FAQ’d etc. I’ve sort of committed to Sylvaneth but they don’t seem to necessarily shine without lots of dryads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 How about a khorne list with lots of bloodthirsters and skull cannons. The one thing about recent aos, I'm not a massive fan of is the increasing number of armies with well over 100 minis. For me about 50 is the sweet spot. On that note Chris Tomlin has been pretty successful with a phoenix temple army of about 50 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 This also sounds appealing! A juggerhorde would be amazing, but I’ve seen a lot of people complain about how terrible they are to build/assemble 😥 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzgurbel Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Not as competitive as the above mentioned, but more cool: Double MK with a Gorefist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Taloren Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 A few things to think about is that there are a few cons to running model counts. One consideration is number of wounds. Couple of friends found that the average target number for tournament competitiveness is 150 wounds. This is just above the average maximum amount of mortal wounds an army can deal in a five turn game if the dice grant such favor to go right 100%. Small counts are easier to focus down. Doesn’t usually matter what kind of save you have, (unless you can reroll all fails) getting hit with everything will kill a unit. Fewer targets means better priority for your opponent to kill things that are important on your side of the table. Bigger models are good but often be traps to take too many. Sure it has 12-16-24 wounds but as it gets injured it gets worse. A unit with multiple models only loses number of dice for attacks, not rolling your strongest attack on 5+ to hit cause you are almost dead. Easier to be surrounded. Unless you can fly getting surrounded by enemy models is a death sentence unless you can manage to kill them all quickly. Objectives are harder to keep hold of. Remember AoS is an Objective based game. And unless you have a special rule about how your models are counted you aren’t going to be holding a central objective for long if your opponent has bigger numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Chikout said: How about a khorne list with lots of bloodthirsters and skull cannons. The one thing about recent aos, I'm not a massive fan of is the increasing number of armies with well over 100 minis. For me about 50 is the sweet spot. On that note Chris Tomlin has been pretty successful with a phoenix temple army of about 50 models. Proof that tastes differ. I literally had that convo last week and we said so cool that bigger units finally have value in 2.0. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 18 hours ago, King Taloren said: A few things to think about is that there are a few cons to running model counts. One consideration is number of wounds. Couple of friends found that the average target number for tournament competitiveness is 150 wounds. This is just above the average maximum amount of mortal wounds an army can deal in a five turn game if the dice grant such favor to go right 100%. Small counts are easier to focus down. Doesn’t usually matter what kind of save you have, (unless you can reroll all fails) getting hit with everything will kill a unit. Fewer targets means better priority for your opponent to kill things that are important on your side of the table. Bigger models are good but often be traps to take too many. Sure it has 12-16-24 wounds but as it gets injured it gets worse. A unit with multiple models only loses number of dice for attacks, not rolling your strongest attack on 5+ to hit cause you are almost dead. Easier to be surrounded. Unless you can fly getting surrounded by enemy models is a death sentence unless you can manage to kill them all quickly. Objectives are harder to keep hold of. Remember AoS is an Objective based game. And unless you have a special rule about how your models are counted you aren’t going to be holding a central objective for long if your opponent has bigger numbers. Yep ok, all of this certainly makes sense. While I do like the idea of a “monster mash” (did I get that right?), I maybe should have been more specific and described the kind of army I meant. I really dig the idea of heavier infantry types of units - the Paladins and heavier armoured heroes from SCE, Ogors and BCR in general, Dragon Ogres, Kurnoth Hunters, Khorne Juggernauts (and the other heavily armoured, elite Khorne units), stuff like that. I realise an army of these types of units would still suffer from the downsides you’re describing, maybe just less so than straight up single big monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetengine Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I dont think its exactly competetive but the Trog list is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadkitten Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I feel like most armies can field an Elite list of some sort. I'm not sure "Low model count" means "fewest models possible." +1 on the Troggs. EDIT: Blood Knights have been good for me and are on the lower end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzgurbel Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 If I'm not wrong, Gristlegore is really good -close to op- because the summons of their command abilities. That summonings give FeC the number of models they need to hold objectives without investing points in basic troops, so they can invest them on big and nasty monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 9:21 PM, svnvaldez said: 100% becareful when spamming anything. One FAQ or GH repoint and those all could lose their competitive edge. At this point the next GHB is probably only a couple months away. I would be very wary about buying into a very optimal niche build for any army until that book comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 A player came 7th at throne of skulls this weekend with 20 model gutbusters army! Took out Nagash with his tyrant. You can make almost any army competitive if you play it well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yep ok, understood folks. Thanks so much for your replies. I’m pretty keen on Sylvaneth at this point, so with both the new GHB coming out and potentially even a new Sylvaneth book I’m reading?... I might just stay conservative with my purchases for now until I know what’s going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitorsz Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The new Troggoth kits are great. I wrote a 2000pts list that has 22 models and 114 wounds. Is it super competitive? probably not. I feel like anything with decent magic or shooting (like skaven) will probably tear it apart. But it would be super fun to give it a try. Even just as a hobby project 22 models is pretty manageable. The price.... that's a different story, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Draakur said: I might just stay conservative with my purchases for now until I know what’s going on. Great idea. Buy and paint a few boxes then list after the new book/gh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I would consider Ironjawz. It's naturally an elite faction with some great models and it's hard to believe that they will not get some attention in the coming months, either a new battletome or through the GHB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I hadn’t ever really considered Orruks, I’m not naturally a fan of their models, but I may actually give them a closer look and see what I can see there. Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyric The Mad Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Haven't tried in AoS 2.0 but Order Draconis list with 2-3 Dragonlords, some dragon blades and the dragonlord host battalion is a nasty hard hitting alpha strike army with lot off buffs and low model count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyric The Mad Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 An example of such a list is here, 3rd Place.https://aosshorts.com/bravery-one-british-open-bobo-2018/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said: I would consider Ironjawz. It's naturally an elite faction with some great models and it's hard to believe that they will not get some attention in the coming months, either a new battletome or through the GHB. Exactly my thought process last summer! Still waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riavan Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Nurgle also has elite army options. Blightlords are very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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