Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
xking

The AoS lore and novels thread

Recommended Posts

This thread is for the discussion of AoS lore, as well as any questions about the lore.  And talking about AoS novels. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously, GW need to be more careful about AOS lore. You can even find canon conflicts of the location of anvil of apotheosis and the time when Nagash betrayed in Battletome and Corebook

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheres the conflict?

Also does anyone know if Lady Olyender appears in any novels? Her story seem interesting enough to dig into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Wheres the conflict?

Also does anyone know if Lady Olyender appears in any novels? Her story seem interesting enough to dig into.

No, not yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 11:09 AM, Whitefang said:

Seriously, GW need to be more careful about AOS lore. You can even find canon conflicts of the location of anvil of apotheosis and the time when Nagash betrayed in Battletome and Corebook

There have been 2 or 3 nagash betrayals. At the end of the age of myth and then at the allgates and i think maybe the necroquake counts as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, flemingmma said:

There have been 2 or 3 nagash betrayals. At the end of the age of myth and then at the allgates and i think maybe the necroquake counts as well

I'm talking about the betrayal in the age of chaos, and it only makes sense that Nagash only betrayed once before age of sigmar otherwise Sigmar would be an ultimate fool

13 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Wheres the conflict?

Let me explain:

In AOS 2.0 Core Book,  page 37, it says it is the Battle of Allpoint during which Nagash betrayed Sigmar and let his undead force attack upon livings, and it is at Allpoint Sigmar abandoned his people and invaded Shyish to bring retribution upon Nagash. Moreover, it says the Battle of Burning Skies is after the disaster of Allpoint.

a8a16ad0f703918fc5bbe2365c3d269758eec46f.jpg.c7a47b73f4b5ba167453a47a9a95c105.jpg

However, on page 39, it says that the Allpoint disaster is after the Burning Skies

1a86b2a1cd11728bbb5652dec5fcc3cec2fd2c5e.jpg.9c70a56a22d4fcdd09b280e26b9a534f.jpg

It also says Nagash did come to help Sigmar, regardless Sigmar himself might just try to  destroy Nagash

ac8fc13d70cf3bc7686a1210dc00baa1cc112a6f.jpg.91e0a2868c05d39eb62f8d9d3731bc30.jpg

Now the conflicts come,

in battletome of Legion of Nagash, it says it was at Burning Skies when Nagash betrayed Sigmar and after the Burning Skies Sigmar invaded Shyish

8c96b112c8fcc3cec3b317cf9f45d688d53f2065.jpg.7a22837e9afd9e95adf7ea23232ea1b1.jpg

In battetome of Nighthaunt, it says Nagash didn't come to Burning Skies at all

b07202d162d9f2d30b62fa13a4ec8a136227cc66.jpg.85411ae9d669fa0e389222d4fe5e5252.jpg

In the new battletome of SCE, however, it says after the Burning Skies Sigmar just sealed the gate of Azyr and no more battles happened

In the relatively early battletome of Everchosen, the events timeline showed that the Burning Skies was after Allpoint

22d63d2ac65c1038c489103ebf119313b27e89da.jpg.85fa383cde9ffd1da72efd9199f07563.jpg

There are more such conflicts scattered throughout Realmgate War series and the events timeline in several battletomes, you can easily figure them out with a little bit of attention

As a result, the sequence of events becomes a complete mess, no more readers can figure out when Nagash truly betrayed Sigmar and which of the Burning Skies and Allpoint happened first.

 

Edited by Whitefang
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Another question is the  location of Anvil of Apotheosis

In the new battletome of SCE. page 4 and several other places, it says that the Anvil of Apotheosis is in Sigmaron, the city beneath Mallus

602937157_QQ20190314130512.png.c109bfa55f46f42ff21a25fdbe9997d0.png

However, it is in the same battletome several places say that the Anvil of Apotheosi is in Sigmarabulum, the palace-city and star-ring around Mallus:

616014163_QQ20190314130858.png.3770a4ffc12621d9fd72744f86d5dcf4.png

110655427_QQ20190314131035.png.02bdadba3ecd149fc5216ba48cd020ff.png

And if you have read Soul Wars written by adorable JR, in the novel it also shows that the Anvil is at Sigmarabulum not Sigmaron

Although it certainly makes more sense that the Anvil is at Sigmarabulum, these conflicts do brew serious canon confusion

Edited by Whitefang
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I doubt whether they are more than one author for the background story for the corebook and battletome. I heard my friends saying that those the kinds of conflict happens in the 40k novels when there are multiple authors for a very big event(big event split into different novels).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Now I doubt whether they are more than one author for the background story for the corebook and battletome. I heard my friends saying that those the kinds of conflict happens in the 40k novels when there are multiple authors for a very big event(big event split into different novels).

Certainly, but in 40k it is rare to see canon conflicts in the same one book, and usually it's more like various descriptions of the same event from different angles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the sigmarabulum part of sigmaron? Also nagash's betrayal in allpoints was not turning up to burning skies from what i understood.

You definitely have a point with the confused order of events though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, flemingmma said:

Is the sigmarabulum part of sigmaron? Also nagash's betrayal in allpoints was not turning up to burning skies from what i understood.

You definitely have a point with the confused order of events though

No,  it takes days to travel from Sigmaron to Sigmarabulum by aircraft

5da704201b425b39d9779f378867db08.jpg.94532ba5e03f0e739ef718fa7a9f16f7.jpg

This city is Sigmaron, while the star-ring at up right is Sigmarabulum

Edited by Whitefang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

(...)

This city is Sigmaron, while the star-ring at up right is Sigmarabulum

No, the city on the Artwork is Azyrheim, on Azyr's "ground level".

Sigmaron is the little spike under the high star Sigendil, on the moon above Mallus and the Sigmarabulum.

This is a close-up of Sigmaron :

https://warhammerart.com/shop/age-of-sigmar/sigmaron-in-the-realm-of-azyr/ 

You can see the light of Sigendil (the same star that's in the sky above Azyrheim) above the palace's tower.

---

But you are right about the confusion surrounding the Battle Of The Burning Skies and the Allpoints defeat / Nagash betrayal(s). I think it's made in order to make this era feels "mythical". But in AOS1 already it was quite confuse. 

The location of the Anvil is less controversial, as there is more mentions of it being in the Sigmarabulum than in Sigmaron. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

No, the city on the Artwork is Azyrheim, on Azyr's "ground level".

Sigmaron is the little spike under the high star Sigendil, on the moon above Mallus and the Sigmarabulum.

This is a close-up of Sigmaron :

https://warhammerart.com/shop/age-of-sigmar/sigmaron-in-the-realm-of-azyr/ 

You can see the light of Sigendil (the same star that's in the sky above Azyrheim) above the palace's tower.

---

But you are right about the confusion surrounding the Battle Of The Burning Skies and the Allpoints defeat / Nagash betrayal(s). I think it's made in order to make this era feels "mythical". But in AOS1 already it was quite confuse. 

The location of the Anvil is less controversial, as there is more mentions of it being in the Sigmarabulum than in Sigmaron. 

Thanks for correction, good to know that.

But if Sigmaron is on the moon above Mallus and Sigmarabulum then that will be quite different from the description in Soul Wars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, michu said:

Well, according to JR, it was a retcon from GW for AOS2. 

Because Sigmaron's location was shown / revealed many times in AOS 1 (despite what JR said) : firstly on the artwork of Azyrheim above (the little spike on the moon under Sigendil, which match the Sigmaron artwork I provided), and secondly on that map :

534714175_SigmaronMallusSigmarabulum.png.866ffd52e234ef7098aff64467989988.png

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Thanks for correction, good to know that.

But if Sigmaron is on the moon above Mallus and Sigmarabulum then that will be quite different from the description in Soul Wars.

No problem. And indeed.

I think GW realized that "Sigmaron" and "Sigmarabulum" are quite similar names / kind of locations (i.e. celestial palaces)...

So, to differentiate them more, when GW got around establishing more precisely the Mortal Realms for AOS2, they made JR as described in Souls War put Sigmaron on the slopes of Mount Celestian, a huge mountain on Azyr's plane (so similar to Mount Olympus in Greek Mythology), while the Sigmarabulum remained that artificial ring above Azyr's plane, around Mallus and just under / near Sigendil the High Star. 

I hope the AOS RPG will have more details on Azyr. That artwork of failed reforged souls wrecking havoc on the Sigmarabulum is quite cool IMO. 

809488131_Azyr_UponTheSigmarabulum.jpg.aff8a28edda3ad54e4d9aecb45878dd1.jpg 

It's the same kind of "soft retcon" they did with the Brimstone Peninsula : it is now on the Great Parch (at the center of Aqshy), while the more mythical / magical (some would said "cartoonesque") Land Of The Chained Sun (where the BP originally was) is now located near Aqshy's Realm Edge, where lands are more crazy than at the center. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

I hope the AOS RPG will have more details on Azyr.

Yeah, desperately looking forward to the AOS RPG set , many things wait to be explained like the connection between Vault Celestial and Highheim. Although at this stage it seems the corebook will focus more on Aqshy...

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Yeah, desperately looking forward to the AOS RPG set , many things wait to be explained like the connection between Vault Celestial and Highheim. Although at this stage it seems the corebook will focus more on Aqshy...

 

Agree 100%. Even if the RPG core book focus more on Aqshy, we should have more info on Azyr anyway. 

One thing a bit sad from the AOS core book was the lack of fluff on Azyrheim (at least the one about the Districts and the Great Conclave, from the Grand Alliance : Order fluff) and the lack of map of Azyr's central area (also : Ghur, Hysh and Ulgu)...

I'm confident GW is willing to make AOS background more coherent, the fact that the IP department is working closely with BL authors for things like Azyr geography (as JR said here) is a clue they are working with the large picture in mind. And BL authors are also working on the RPG, so between guys like Phil Kelly and JR, after AOS2 and the RPG I think AOS background will be way more fleshed-out and coherent than everything that came before 2018.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone read Scourge of Fate by Robbie Macniven? I feel like it might be good for some Warcry inspiration/mood setting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 11:09 AM, Whitefang said:

Seriously, GW need to be more careful about AOS lore. You can even find canon conflicts of the location of anvil of apotheosis and the time when Nagash betrayed in Battletome and Corebook

Nice pick up @Whitefang. Hopefully, with a designated lead back ground writer and engagement with the Black Library authors (eg @JReynolds) these things conflicts become a lot rarer. As an aside though, a small bit of conflict isn't a problem for me. I'd rather that the Anvil be moved to the Sigmarabulum because it is just super cool than for the writers to go 'drats - we should have done it like this, oh well too late...'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this appears to be a lore-thread in general, I'll post my question here instead of opening a new thread: When the Mortal Realms came into existence, only Nagash was found by Sigmar. Then there's a lore-hole, apparently, as I haven't found anything regarding him resurrecting his Mortarchs - or any Vampires, for that matter, as this is primarily about Vampires. 

Do all Vampires in AoS apart from Nefarata and Mannfred have their curse applied -after- the Mortal Realms were created, or did souls of other Vampires from the World-That-Was survive and somehow get a material form again? And if that is the case, did they already walk the Realms, or did Nagash resurrect them? Is Vhordrai a soul from the World-That-Was, oder did he become a Vampire by Neferata's doing post-Age of Myth? 

This leads me to: Is it possible for my Vampire Lord from the World-That-Was (he rode a Coach to Imperial Banquets with his Witch-turned-Vampire-Wife, there) to have survived the End Times; as in, say, his Coach was an important part of the folklore of that Imperial territory and so this coach; and he and his wife with it, still appear in the new world; since it was 1.) his own magic and 2.) the memory in the dead souls riding the winds of magic to the Mortal Realms? 

Mh, this brings me to another one - the first undead creatures Nagash raised in the Age of Myth, are these souls from the World-That-Was, or already dead human beings from the Mortal Realms?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Then there's a lore-hole, apparently, as I haven't found anything regarding him resurrecting his Mortarchs - or any Vampires, for that matter, as this is primarily about Vampires. 

There are some hints in the novels regarding to how Mortarchs, Arkhan at least, their souls were imprisoned together with Nagash and when Nagash was freed these souls were also recreated into being. However 3 Mortarchs changed subtly on different levels:  it seems that Arkhan totally forgot about the past, Manfred still remembered other Carsteins but couldn't figure out details, while Neferata still remembered Lahmia and want to build it anew.

1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

Do all Vampires in AoS apart from Nefarata and Mannfred have their curse applied -after- the Mortal Realms were created, or did souls of other Vampires from the World-That-Was survive and somehow get a material form again?

Considering there are several examples how some old characters survived end times and entered Mortal Realms, so it is very likely that some Vampires, may, survive. However, there is not any clear connection between Vhodrai  and Old World vampires.  Although there is no direct explanation how the curse of vampire continued in Mortal Realms, in core book 2.0 there is a clear hint that nowadays curse of vampire originates from curse in WTW.

1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

This leads me to: Is it possible for my Vampire Lord from the World-That-Was (he rode a Coach to Imperial Banquets with his Witch-turned-Vampire-Wife, there) to have survived the End Times

If you want, why not. I mean it is totally possible to survive End Times, though aeons of time may cause some changes on your characters like losing memory, etc.

1 hour ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

the first undead creatures Nagash raised in the Age of Myth, are these souls from the World-That-Was, or already dead human beings from the Mortal Realms?

On twitter David Guymer explained that all souls, including those died in ET,  came to the realm of death. However, considering only the strongest souls can survive aeons of time, so my opinion on this one is normal undead creatures were created from fresh dead thing in Mortal Realms, while some powerful beings may be recreated by Nagash using souls form WTW.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my understanding nagash remade arkhan mannfred and neferata from his fractured memories of the old world and in making neferata and mannfred started up vampirism as a thing again 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In terms of being lore-friendly with my background, am I better off having a Black Coach manifest on the Night Skies, shaped from a collective memory of The-World-That-Was (and the fear of humankind, regardless their location); and inside of it a Vampire Lord regaining his old shape; his soul having traveled the winds of magic in his ethereal coach (with both Black Coach entries, there is so much talk of Vampires not being truly dead after losing their physical form; and the coaches not being bound to the physical plane); - or: just have my Vampire Lord and his wife be humans in the early Age of Myth; and have Mannfred turn him a Vampire while shaping his court; with the Vampire - and his wife, for that matter - reliving a a slightly altered retelling of their own history, since this universe is a circle? The less overpowered one is the option I'll choose, since in his story of old, he also was but a lower count in Von Carstein's Sylvania. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Still-young said:

Has anyone read Scourge of Fate by Robbie Macniven? I feel like it might be good for some Warcry inspiration/mood setting. 

I have recently finished Scourge of Fate and I agree. The book fits perfectly into Warcry. 

 

I really liked how the Novell explained how the chaos society around the Varanspire works. The black pilgrimage, the lesser nurgle followers, the details of forging a war band and the intrigues within the Varanspire are all great pieces that help imagine a working society within chaos. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×