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16 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Huge threat ranges on those spells.

Guaranteed +1 cast and +1 to prayers AND a teleport? Amazing.

I think the Skaven Spells and scenery are probably the best ones we've seen in any faction so far.

or scouting for next big toys for all armies since each faction can use a mechanic like gnawholes or siege class magic this means there are a lot of new toys releasing in this year.

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21 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

The models sell well enough, no doubt. And do you think GW thinks they've botched the book? I doubt it.

They have publicly went on record to acknowledge they botched the book. The wrong file went to print, which resulted in a majority of the warscrolls needing damage value and range corrections. One of the handful of their scrolls has been completely rewritten.  The near universal sentiment of anyone who is informed, including a number of insiders I've talked to, is that the book needs a redesign from the ground up.  It is a one dimensional army that generates a un-fun play experience.  I believe we'll see a new battletome for KO by the end of April, or June at the latest. 

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4 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

The near universal sentiment of anyone who is informed, including a number of insiders I've talked to, is that the book needs a redesign from the ground up.  It is a one dimensional army that generates a un-fun play experience. 

Okay... but it probably won't get one. GW released errata. I'm sure that fix was good enough for them. 

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I hope KO gets a new book. It is a shame for such cool army and ships not hitting the table as much as it should.

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A lot of recent armies that have areas of weakness, such as KO, would benefit from revisions to the rules. Nothing dramatic that would require a 3rd edition but...

A rule which lets behemoth / monster models count as multiple models for objectives. 

Battleplans that allow a more defensive style of play.

I also think GW were really scared of shooting being too powerful when in fact most ranged units in AoS are worse than melee options in their respective armies. As such I think almost all ranged units should get fairly significant points reductions.

I also think a few of the AoS 1 armies have areas of weakness due to how the rules used to work. So for example balancing saves on the assumption it was fairly easy to get a +1 to save from mystic shield or immunity to battleshock from inspiring presence.  Idoneth Deepkin are an example of this. Of course Morrsarr Spam is viable, but outside of those lists there are a lot of new kits that aren't viable. Namarti in particular would be a lot more viable if you could dump an old style mystic shield on them.

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22 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Have they mentioned how many gnawholes you get to deploy (as they stated they are free), the box showed three but if they can potentially riddle the battlefield with more via spells or abilities then the amount of deadly terrain on the map could give a nice way of funnelling enemies into a killbox.

I'm picturing a Skaven vs. Skaven game now with the tabletop absolutely riddled with holes like a big Swiss cheese, units popping in and out of them all over the place in a big endless game of rat & mouse.

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8 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Okay... but it probably won't get one. GW released errata. I'm sure that fix was good enough for them. 

I am pretty sure that the last Errata made KO worser, and that lead to a lot people posting on their Facebook page about buffing them, during the GHB 2019 suggestion time

beside when KO was released I believe GW said that they where going to expand the KO range because they sold so well.

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4 minutes ago, JPjr said:

I'm picturing a Skaven vs. Skaven game now with the tabletop absolutely riddled with holes like a big Swiss cheese, units popping in and out of them all over the place in a big endless game of rat & mouse.

"rat and mouse" here, take my like! :D

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Since Gnawhole doesnt require it to be friendly for Skaventide to pass though you could scooby-doo door chase your way around the battlefield all day with a double skaven game (I am now imagining a doubles tournament game with 4 skaven players)

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46 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Okay... but it probably won't get one. GW released errata. I'm sure that fix was good enough for them. 

I’d never say never on that one, Stormcast, Blades of Khorne, Pestilens, FeC and the Rumoured Seraphon rewrites should give a little hope. 

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5 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I’d never say never on that one, Stormcast, Blades of Khorne, Pestilens, FeC and the Rumoured Seraphon rewrites should give a little hope. 

Stormcast is a given. Posterboys and all that. Blades of Khorne wasn't exactly a rewrite, just like Pestilens it's 'previous' book was Bloodhound which wasn't even a real battletome.  FEC is a rewrite of an older battletome too. KO have a tome with allegiance abilities. None of those did.

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8 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Stormcast is a given. Posterboys and all that. Blades of Khorne wasn't exactly a rewrite, just like Pestilens it's 'previous' book was Bloodhound which wasn't even a real battletome.  FEC is a rewrite of an older battletome too. KO have a tome with allegiance abilities. None of those did.

They were all Battletomes that got rewrites. You can choose to take a pessimistic outlook as to the chances of KO getting one, but they did get redone. 

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I would be so naive and would predict SCE not to have a new Battletome untill 2020. This year we could see some new Tomes, including a Duardin Rework, Seraphon, Ogors, maybe even Aelfs. Beside of this we will pretty sure see the StD Relaunch and maybe 2 other big range releases (Slaanesh and a new Faction would be my humble guess). The next Stormcast chamber was already hinted to be the Too-Often-Cast-Eternals (Or Recast-Eternals? In my opinion they need a mocking name already) which propably won´t be intended to hit shelfs this year so SCE players can build something new after Sancrosanct before buying the new SCE range.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

They were all Battletomes that got rewrites. You can choose to take a pessimistic outlook as to the chances of KO getting one, but they did get redone. 

I wouldn't call it pessimism. It's just that there's no real precedent for rewriting a proper battletome with allegiance abilities other than stormcast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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13 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

I wouldn't call it pessimism. It's just that there's no real precedent for rewriting a proper battletome with allegiance abilities other than stormcast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can believe what you want. You'll see both Sylvaneth and KO late this spring. Mark my words. 

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13 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

I wouldn't call it pessimism. It's just that there's no real precedent for rewriting a proper battletome with allegiance abilities other than stormcast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

well they said they botch the tome so it definitely not a proper battletome by any regards

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15 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

I wouldn't call it pessimism. It's just that there's no real precedent for rewriting a proper battletome with allegiance abilities other than stormcast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Skaven (Pestilens) and Flesheater Courts are up for preorder in 2 days, both have allegiance in GHB

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13 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

I wouldn't call it pessimism. It's just that there's no real precedent for rewriting a proper battletome with allegiance abilities other than stormcast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adding more and more bylaws to fit your own gloomy prediction could be explained as pessimism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

for example, old battletomes got a rewriting So KO might stand a chance is removing factors in the comparison to match my sunny prediction ;) 

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Just now, novakai said:

well they said they botch the tome so it definitely not a proper battletome by any regards

Did they really admit that? Where did they say it? Would be interested to read/listen

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Just now, Walrustaco said:

Did they really admit that? Where did they say it? Would be interested to read/listen

Pete Foley, the head of big box games (so all of warhammer) acknowledged in the talk back session at Nova in Fall of 2017. There was a big oops regarding it on multiple different levels. It was also the last battletome out of the development pipeline before they had the full playtester process in place.  The consequence was the design of a battletome that failed to meet their expectations and now there is a flagship army within their product line that has virutally no representation in the public eye.  Let me reiterate that I've heard from multiple sources that a rewrite is coming.

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1 minute ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Let me reiterate that I've heard from multiple sources that a rewrite is coming.

Are you trying to tell me that we have a rumour in the rumour thread? Since you're mentioning that, are there any other rewrites or releases you know of? 

I'm also curious about what you mean by virtually no representation. Are they not still played at tournaments? Did a list with KO not finish 2nd at CanCon as was mentioned?

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4 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Pete Foley, the head of big box games (so all of warhammer) acknowledged in the talk back session at Nova in Fall of 2017. There was a big oops regarding it on multiple different levels. It was also the last battletome out of the development pipeline before they had the full playtester process in place.  The consequence was the design of a battletome that failed to meet their expectations and now there is a flagship army within their product line that has virutally no representation in the public eye.  Let me reiterate that I've heard from multiple sources that a rewrite is coming.

I would hope that any rewrites include changes to battleline because I was tempted to start them as my first army for AoS but as a broke college student at the time I decided against it as there kits weren't exactly the cheapest and their start collecting had no battleline in it.

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Just now, Walrustaco said:

Are you trying to tell me that we have a rumour in the rumour thread? Since you're mentioning that, are there any other rewrites or releases you know of? 

I'm also curious about what you mean by virtually no representation. Are they not still played at tournaments? Did a list with KO not finish 2nd at CanCon as was mentioned?

A good tournament player can get results with almost any army, a lot of the competitive players in my area switch armies all the time to challenge themselves. But from what I can tell, there aren't many casual players running them, none in my area and none in the local areas of any of the folks i talk to outside my area. Both of the hobby shops i go to tell me they don't sell either.

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Just now, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

A good tournament player can get results with almost any army, a lot of the competitive players in my area switch armies all the time to challenge themselves. But from what I can tell, there aren't many casual players running them, none in my area and none in the local areas of any of the folks i talk to outside my area. Both of the hobby shops i go to tell me they don't sell either.

Why do you think casuals don't play them? You see casuals playing stuff like Aelves or StD. I remember some factions putting me off by seeming hard to transport or seeming easily damaged. I remember that was the initial feelings people had with skyships. 

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Just now, Walrustaco said:

Why do you think casuals don't play them? You see casuals playing stuff like Aelves or StD. I remember some factions putting me off by seeming hard to transport or seeming easily damaged. I remember that was the initial feelings people had with skyships. 

I myself have a Slaves army (though i'm currently using it as the basis for a slaanesh army until darkoath drops) but between their less than stellar start collecting set, prices of their other kits, unfamiliarity with being a new army (where as aelves and slaves are based in older armies with nostalgia from WFB) and yes awkward transportation (been dealing with that with my mortis engine lately) they where a hard sell to players with only so much money to spend, my self included as i considered them for my first army, throw their sub par rules on top of that and i can see where many people would be turned off from them. 

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