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Quick, someone take a photo with potato and post it on the internet. Then we will have new post on WH community site in 15 minutes!

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My understanding, at least from when AoS launched, was that they we're wanting a system were they weren't committed to supporting a given army indefinitely.  I think we will see armies armies, even ones released after the launch of AoS, retired to make way for new armies and Stormcast Chambers. That said I would think an army would stick around for at least 5 to 8 years minimum to prevent players from feeling too burned and army popularity would be a big factor too.

In Fantasy GW felt constrained by endlessly supporting the same armies (or so I heard somewhere, several years ago) but that was over a 30 year timeframe.

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35 minutes ago, Klamm said:

But, and this is where it's just my opinion, there comes a point where certain factions like the 4 Kit (plus 1) Flesh Eater Courts just don't have enough 'meat' to them. Proper fixes for this becomes modifying the lore to fit with a 'merger' or supplementing the faction with fresh releases (which with FEC they're trying, and the debate is whether that's enough).

 

I really don't see the issue here. DoK, Sylvaneth and Fyreslayers all have low kit counts if you exclude heroes. DoK have 3 and a half with no heroes sold separately (excluding Morathi). Sylvaneth have 4 kits excluding all of their heroes. Fyreslayers have 3 (if you count the Chosen Axes) excluding Heroes, as do the FEC. If that works for GW financially then yeah Darkling Covens, Wanderers and Gutbusters should be fine as factions and get their own seperate battletomes. The only last group that requires a compendium (LoN/BoC/Skaven) battletome to work are High Aelves. And TBH I hope they get one (just not one that includes Darkling Covens or Wanderers).

I really don't see the LoN/BoC armies wiping out the smaller factions. They can and should co-exist. As we see with the Gitz & BoC the bigger books allow for sub-groups (i.e Tzaangor only armies) so there's no long term benefit in fold armies with GHB allegiance abilities into bigger books.

The only factions that are in really disfficulty IMHO are Dispossessed and Greenskinz due to the age of the models, and the non-Darkling Dark Aelves (Scourgerunner Privateers, Shadowblades and Order Serpentis) they have maybe 2 kits max many of which are half kits shared with other factions. 

Edited by zedatkinszed
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The thing is small model variety armies are not as interesting in many ways. They lack the variety to make them chop and change in big ways and the model diversity to keep them as interesting medium to long term. Skaven or Goblins have way more choices and variety; Stormcast too. There are loads of ways to build and vary teh army which mechnically and visually changes them.

Daughters of Khaine or, even worse, Fyreslayers basically rely on so few models that there's a far more limited practical pool of choices. Fyreslayers are even more hampered because they are visually very similar. 

 

So you can end up with neat armies, but ones where the players burn out faster. Meanwhile payers of Goblins or Skaven or other bigger armies are more likely to stick with them and keep investing. 

 

 

That siad most of the armies we are worried about are newer and smaller forces. GW has years to add things to them or even mash them with another army whilst retaining the lore. Daughters of Khaine could absorb the Darkling Covens; whilst Fyreslayers could the Disspossessed. 

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My biggest concern about AoS is that they won't release models for factions after their initial launch. That it would be more profitable to release a new army than revisit one for new kits. 

I am really hoping we see some models for aos launch factions just to disprove that.

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1 minute ago, HollowHills said:

My biggest concern about AoS is that they won't release models for factions after their initial launch. That it would be more profitable to release a new army than revisit one for new kits. 

I am really hoping we see some models for aos launch factions just to disprove that.

Honestly I think that was the plan for AoS at the start - hence the legion of subfactions. I think now they are back to a normal GW product and GW will release new models at some point in the future. Same as they did for fantsy back in the old world ;same as they do for Lord of the Rings, Necromunda, 40K and others. AoS is a normal regular game for them and they will keep it updated.

To do otherwise would be madness. 

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1 hour ago, xking said:

What day is the LVO Preview?

8PM Las Vegas time Thursday, the GW article should be up either at the start as they usually do, or just after the Seminar (usually 1 hour so around 9PM). 

In Europe / thats between 4 and 6 AM Friday... AARG

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My take away from the last few pages here is that my friend's newly-acquired, freshly painted Swifthawk Agents army is basically DOA. That's a shame, they are so much fun to play against and really just need a few minor tweaks to be really competitive.

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17 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

My take away from the last few pages here is that my friend's newly-acquired, freshly painted Swifthawk Agents army is basically DOA. That's a shame, they are so much fun to play against and really just need a few minor tweaks to be really competitive.

Yup. Swifthawk will be losing Seaguard, High Warden, Reavers and Swordmasters probably going away as well. It is a shame, some really nice models.

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AoSFleshCourts-Feb6-FeedingFrenzy1ed.jpg.08600aeba5f54a0a2e9f6ca137f599ac.jpg

What is this? Feeding frenzy being useful?
I like it. This forces the player to decide between using CP to summon new units or to give a extra fight phase to existing units. 

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21 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

AoSFleshCourts-Feb6-FeedingFrenzy1ed.jpg.08600aeba5f54a0a2e9f6ca137f599ac.jpg

What is this? Feeding frenzy being useful?
I like it. This forces the player to decide between using CP to summon new units or to give a extra fight phase to existing units. 

Double combat ZD...ouch 

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It's funny that DoK also have that command ability, but you never end up using it because of the weird way most army builds work and how everyone has to be your general to get their benefits. I really hope they fix that in the next GHB. Oh you want an army of melusai? No command abilities for you.

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54 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Yup. Swifthawk will be losing Seaguard, High Warden, Reavers and Swordmasters probably going away as well. It is a shame, some really nice models.

They're beautiful all painted up, such a shame. At least he can play them in Open/Narrative.

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17 hours ago, Overread said:

Something honestly went wrong with Island of blood and you can tell Fantasy was really suffering with sales and support when GW releases a slew of new sculpts for 2 major factions and fails to ever release them after the combined boxed set. My betting is that Island of Blood sold really badly - or at least not enough to recoup the investment and make it viable to produces more moulds for the separate sprues. IT might also have been a huge mistake that they wound up on the same sprues as that totally broke the chance for GW to release separate boxed sets for each army. 

I think in the transition into AoS and all the madness that followed its just something that hasn't yet got back on the table. Thankfully Skaven are still in a strong position - High Elves though are in a really precarious position right now - actually the only Aelves we've got are Daughters of Khaine. That kind of hits home at how ina mess Aelves are right now. I figure we might well see them re-unite them or at least some; but its near impossible to tell what they will do and the current store page lists them all under one umbrella (that's bold if they try to do a single Aelf Battletome considering that high and dark aelves are vastly different in designs. 

What about idoneth deepkin and wanderers? They are elves.

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6 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

They're beautiful all painted up, such a shame. At least he can play them in Open/Narrative.

He might be being rather over pesemistic.  Its unlikely Elves will be redone before the GHB and we dont yet know if any unavailable models for Grots or Skaven will be removed from that anyway, so its likely youve got 6months minimum, probably 18months or more.

Edited by stato

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1 minute ago, stato said:

He might be being rather over pesemistic.  Its unlikely Elves will be redone before the GHB and we dont yet know if any unavailable models for Grots or Skaven will be removed from that anyway, so its likely youve got 6months minimum, probably 18months or more.

That's good to hear. Would like to see him get them through a tourney or two before they're phased out. I'm happy playing Open so I'll be seeing them a lot but it is nice when people who never even consider Aelf factions scoff that SHA and then get whupped.  ;)

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I'm kind of hoping for a Slaanesh release/tease at LVO. There's no real basis besides that DoK were revealed this time last year (and their main enemy is Slaanesh) and that there are more Slaanesh models confirmed to be in the works. I feel Slaves to Darkness will be later on, to give people a break from huge releases.   

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13 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

They're beautiful all painted up, such a shame. At least he can play them in Open/Narrative.

Swordmasters, the sad face resin ones, are still sold so should be safe. The archmage is also sold in a plastic kit and is a relatively popular choice for an ally in some lists. Both are safe for now. 

High warden and spireguard are in trouble, but they are only likely to go if 1) we get a new aelf soup book or 2) in GH19. 

If 1) just proxy them for something (dragon lord and phoenix guard maybe?) plus be happy you got a new book. 2) you still have until June at the earliest which is plenty of time to enjoy the army and think about your next painting project. 

So should be OK. 

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I love that they're putting Mount Traits in more armies

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10 hours ago, Malin said:

The more you expect the more disappointed you can be.

Yep. Like they say in 40K, "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

Hope is a soul-crusher.

Better to be pleasantly surprised than have your hopes dashed.

Edited by Sleboda
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7 hours ago, Aryann said:

Brand new AoS factions seem more to focus around a theme/subject rather than race. Flying troops and airships, sea creatures and chaos gods treated seperetely for their theme - gore, magic, illness, seduction. 

Skaven are much more than just "rat people". Skyre faction fits the role of advanced tech. Moulder is a great material for mutants race like GSC in 40k. Eshin as pure assassin force. Pestilence is obvious. Especially the first two seem like an easy material for battletome and expansions. Leaving them and whole Skaven just with a battletome seems like a waste. 

I don't argue that you could mine Skaven, or any allegiance for that matter, into a whole lot of diverse potential battletomes.  The diversity within Skaven might be a bit more obvious than some other races/allegiances, but you can make the same argument for all of them.  The mortal realms are somewhat infinite in scope, most of these races are detailed as being spread across all of them, and a creative design team could take any faction and split it into numerous distinct sub factions.  

But honestly, I just don't see it happening.  To be realistic, if any battletome would be split into multiples rather than Voltron-ed back together (which seems to be what they are doing) then the most likely candidate by far would be Stormcast Eternals (I am not advocating for this to happen).  Honestly, I don't think that would be very healthy for the game either.  A smaller number of books is better in regards to potential balance and also for GW's ability to support those armies. 

This fast rate of development and release rate of both books and models for various armies is quite new for GW.  They have obviously ramped up their ability to develop multiple products compared to the past when you there was just a handful of releases per year and most armies waited 5 or more years between decent updates (in just about every game).  If they were to go bonkers and fully explore all aspects of each race/allegiance with a full book and model range then we would end up back in a state such as that where their production capacity simply cannot keep up with the growth.

I fully agree that GW could make a great full book and model range for every skaven clan.  I think they could have done the same for Gloomspite and made a Moonclan book, a Spiderfang book, and a Troggoth Book.  I think they could make a full book for each Stormcast chamber.  They could do some really interesting stuff by making a full book for every Deepkin enclave (I would expect that different oceans within different realms would have different creatures) or Sylvaneth Wargroves (nature has a staggering variety of form they could explore).  And while all of these things would be cool by themselves - what would the state of the game be if they did all of them as separate full releases?  We are already seeing factions released specifically for AoS that are stagnating somewhat due to how rapidly the game has changed since it's initial inception.  That situation would only get worse.

My opinion is that these combined allegiance books are a very good compromise.  They let GW explore a lot of ideas within a single force, maintain interesting sub-factions, but also condense the amount of books & models that they need to create.  I am sad to see that there won't be many new model kits for Skaven.  I hope that at some point GW will consider rescultping units outside of book-release windows.  But a combined Skaven book (regardless of how many model kits were released) always seemed to me like the best way for GW to release this army.  I can understand the desire for a full battletome for each clan.  I have that same desire for Goblins - but I personally don't think it is very realistic.

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6 hours ago, Overread said:

back stabbing murder rats.

That should totally have been the name of the Skaven book.

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1 hour ago, Mutton said:

It's funny that DoK also have that command ability, but you never end up using it because of the weird way most army builds work and how everyone has to be your general to get their benefits. I really hope they fix that in the next GHB. Oh you want an army of melusai? No command abilities for you.

Really ? Slaughter Queen gets her ability to work a lot of time for me and take note that it is really powerfull for an army like DoK as almost any unit that you will use it on hits like a truck. 

I'm taking Melusai build to Heat 1 and it's really good, and you can still take Blood Sisters in any Slaughter Queen build. 

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