The Rumour Thread

[Requizen]

While I'm glad to see helmet-less Stormcast from a fluff perspective, I don't expect to build any of mine without them. I like the uniformity way too much 

[budebear]

Zzz...

More stormcast yayy /s

 

was reaaally hoping for them to flesh out the devoted/free peoples

[Nevvermore]

I usually think SE are boring but these models are fantastic. Feral and dynamic. The GryphHounds are so good as well.

[Darth Alec]

Poster boys get more toys. Nothing new here. IIRC, the main reason Space Marines isn't just that they sell the most, it's also the favorite faction of a lot of the designers. So they get more toys because a lot of people at GW like making toys for them. Similar with SCE, I expect. With the exception that the rules/background guys more or less know what's in the pipeline, hence the various chambers being known to use, but not their content.

 

Besides, it's not like another wave of SCE stops other stuff from coming. If Tzeench and SCE drop within a month of each other, how much stuff might be on the way for later months?

[Immersturm]

Better to get SCE out of the way now and have a whole lot of time for other factions. They certainly need more love.

[shinros]

14 minutes ago, Darth Alec said:

Poster boys get more toys. Nothing new here. IIRC, the main reason Space Marines isn't just that they sell the most, it's also the favorite faction of a lot of the designers. So they get more toys because a lot of people at GW like making toys for them. Similar with SCE, I expect. With the exception that the rules/background guys more or less know what's in the pipeline, hence the various chambers being known to use, but not their content.

 

Besides, it's not like another wave of SCE stops other stuff from coming. If Tzeench and SCE drop within a month of each other, how much stuff might be on the way for later months?

Indeed after this I suspect stormcast won't get another update in awhile since they are getting a new tome with everything in there, command traits, prayers etc. Also according to the facebook page it seems going by GW's comments they understand that people want to see other armies I just see this as them getting the stormcast out of the way now. 

Since a lot of people are tired of order and chaos. 

Also they said this at the end of the page. Still as a Death player still waiting for those plastic vampires and new zombies.  Still the gryph hounds might make me expand my devoted of sigmar force into free guild so I can use them. 

PS: We have another reveal from next month’s releases tomorrow. Check back then to find out what…

Edited January 23, 2017 by shinros

[Volund]

Didnt they say a while ago that there were three major chambers? I feel like that is a thing i remember. Assuming that i am remembering correcty, this could be the last big Stormcast drop for a while. And as much as i hate to admit it, this really does make SCE seem pretty complete. Eternanals are the "nornal" troops, Extrmis are the "elite" troops, and Vanguard are the "scout" types. It really fills out rather nicely (again, assuming this is everything)

[shinros]

3 minutes ago, Volund said:

Didnt they say a while ago that there were three major chambers? I feel like that is a thing i remember. Assuming that i am remembering correcty, this could be the last big Stormcast drop for a while. And as much as i hate to admit it, this really does make SCE seem pretty complete. Eternanals are the "nornal" troops, Extrmis are the "elite" troops, and Vanguard are the "scout" types. It really fills out rather nicely (again, assuming this is everything)

Pretty much as I said this is the last we will see of them for awhile. I mean from a narrative stand point it seems strange to me they are going on and on about cults and this phase of the fluff is focusing on cities then they drop this kind of release on us. This just seems like a "gap" filler than anything narrative focused. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by shinros

[Carnelian]

11 minutes ago, Volund said:

Didnt they say a while ago that there were three major chambers? I feel like that is a thing i remember. Assuming that i am remembering correcty, this could be the last big Stormcast drop for a while. And as much as i hate to admit it, this really does make SCE seem pretty complete. Eternanals are the "nornal" troops, Extrmis are the "elite" troops, and Vanguard are the "scout" types. It really fills out rather nicely (again, assuming this is everything)

There's still a lot more chambers such as Ruination, Auxilliary or Sacrosanct chambers.

[Lanoss]

But but... the bolt pistol/crossbow stupid things... [emoji58]

Why???

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[Soulsmith]

As someone stated earlier, it doesn't even have the possibility of being strung.

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[Blueisola]

I guess I kind of liked the Sigmarines being what they were and how they performed on the battlefield. They could be tanking and shooty and slow, but have some deep strike capabilities to compensate for that. Now let's give them some speedy assault type troops; I think their functioning imbalance was kind of nice. Now they tick all the boxes.


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[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

I have a hard time understanding this. You can bring anything you want as long as it's in the same Grand Alliance. If you want to build an army purely out of one faction, you buy the Battletome if they have one and follow the instructions in there, which boil down to "make sure all of your units have the correct Keyword". 

I mean, I know it's harder than "pick anything", but that's pretty freaking simple for a tabletop game. Baseline all you need is the free app and TGH. You might need one more book if you want to play a specific force. I don't call that scattered at all, and if it feels like too much to handle for some reason, you can buy those books on the app and literally only need a device.

For whatever reason, I never had any problems building, say, a Tomb Kings army or Empire army, but I just have this weight in my mind over building armies for AoS.  Factions, sub-factions, units from multiple battletomes, campain books, boxed sets, GH, old warscrolls, replaced warscrolls, new warscrolls, formations, battalions ... decide if the exact same group of models gets one set of powers or another, add in an item to a certain number of guys...

It all just seems really, really convoluted.  When AoS hit, it was simple.  Put the models you like on the table and play with them. There are just too many sources and options now. 

Don't get me wrong.  I like to options.  I like the ways to do things and the flexibility.  I'm just saying that I have this 'fear' that I'll do it wrong and be told I've broken some sort of rule I didn't even know existed.

 

Edit: Just an anecdotal reference, look at spells. You get the two in the rules. Oh, and the one on your scroll. Oh yeah, also one from a book you may or may not own. Plus, there are all the ones that are on Warscrolls you don't even know you can have (the "all wizards know summon X in addition to their other spells" ones.

 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Sleboda

[Requizen]

15 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

For whatever reason, I never had any problems building, say, a Tomb Kings army or Empire army, but I just have this weight in my mind over building armies for AoS.  

I think you're making it complicated where it's not.

15 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Factions, sub-factions, units from multiple battletomes, campain books, boxed sets, GH, old warscrolls, replaced warscrolls, new warscrolls, formations, battalions ..

There are only 4 Factions you need to know about: Order, Death, Destruction, and Chaos. That's it, all others are extra. Four isn't a big number to keep track of, and it's pretty easy to know which units are in which one. Culists, Daemons, and general bad guys go in Chaos. Orks, Goblins, and Ogres (and other monster-y monsters) go in Destruction. Death should be pretty obvious. Order is anyone you might think of as a "good guy" plus some morally grey areas. There's nothing difficult about those distinctions, and you don't really have to go past that if you don't want to. Done.

There are no units in campaign books, box sets, or the General's Handbook. Any Battalions that are any of the former can be found on the App. 

Look to the App. It is the one true source of truth for all things AoS (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions that prove the rule).

15 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

decide if the exact same group of models gets one set of powers or another, add in an item to a certain number of guys...

No idea what you mean by this. Do you mean artifacts? If so, they just go on heroes. It's easy to remember: who finds artifacts of power? Not Joe Lineman, heroes.

If you're talking about items or upgrades in the unit, there's no way in hell that's any more complicated it is than in any other game. It's all literally modeled as is and there's no reason to not take at least one of every unit option available, full stop. It shouldn't be difficult to look at a unit of dudes and figure out if they're holding shield or double weapons.

17 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

It all just seems really, really convoluted.  When AoS hit, it was simple.  Put the models you like on the table and play with them. There are just too many sources and options now. 

There's only one source you need to know about. It's the App. Look to the App and all shall be made clear. If you were happy just buying what you wanted and putting them on the table, there's no reason to stop doing that. Just like 3 restrictions you have to make note of. 

24 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Don't get me wrong.  I like to options.  I like the ways to do things and the flexibility.  I'm just saying that I have this 'fear' that I'll do it wrong and be told I've broken some sort of rule I didn't even know existed.

Well, if you do, don't worry about it! Anyone who yells at you for messing up a game is a tool and should be ignored. And there's more flexibility now than ever before.

If you pick an army based on units in the book and follow the Matched Play rules (which is just 4 rules on top of the main 4, plus a couple charts), then you can never be breaking the rules. That's it. 4 page ruleset plus matched play, get the unit rules you need from the app, and you can always (for the forseeable future) play a legal game of AoS. 

24 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Edit: Just an anecdotal reference, look at spells. You get the two in the rules. Oh, and the one on your scroll. Oh yeah, also one from a book you may or may not own. Plus, there are all the ones that are on Warscrolls you don't even know you can have (the "all wizards know summon X in addition to their other spells" ones.

Well... that's it. You summarized it in four sentences, and you can ignore the third one because that only takes place for optional scenarios that will be shared with you if you don't have them. That's not hard! Do you know how long the Psychic Phase section is in the 40k rulebook? ...it's long.

 

Army building in this game is only as complicated as you make it. Pick a group (good guys, bad guys, dead guys, crazy guys). Stick to the restrictions of your point limit (all it requires is counting up to like 6). Then just take what you like! That's all you really have to worry about. Everything you need to know about a unit is in the 4 page rules and the unit's Warscroll. At most, you can pick up a Battletome and use that for a force you like, but they're not ubiquitous nor are they necessary.

[swarmofseals]

I'm not particularly concerned about rules bloat (in fact, I think there are a few more rules that should be added to the base rules or at very least matched play rules), and I love the new gryphs.

That said, I think that this is a really bad decision by GW. As most of you surely know, GW has a long history of providing heavier support for factions that are more popular (sometimes to an egregious extent). While this no doubt makes good business sense in the short term, in the long run I think there is a real risk that it will be very bad for the game. I think there are two main reasons for this:

• Seeing other factions get multiple releases before your faction gets updates really pisses players off. I know I shouldn't speak for others here, but this is why I quit WHFB just before 8th edition. I was a Wood Elf player, and I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of support. I fully expected my army book to be among the last to get redone. When 8th edition was announced though, it became clear that I wasn't going to get an update for 7th at all, and in fact many armies that had already been updated in 7th were getting 8th edition books soon after release. I felt this was such a slap in the face and it really turned me off the game. Dwarf, Aelf, and to a lesser extent Death players are no doubt looking at this announcement and slumping in their chairs a bit.
• These sorts of releases strongly encourage power creep. If a faction is well fleshed out in the current system, then current players probably already have fully functional armies built. In order to sell the new models, they have to either look amazing or function better than existing options (preferably both). This impetus is less prevalent for unupdated factions because those factions are already likely to be underperforming (and thus they don't need to be pushed beyond the current level of "competitive") and they are dealing with older sculpts. Players are much more likely to replace old sculpts for purely aesthetic rather than power reasons. 

As many people other than me have noted, this strategy very quickly becomes a vicious cycle. If only popular factions get updated regularly, then of course those factions are going to get an increasingly large share of the playerbase. People cite the predominance of space marines in 40k all the time, and frankly it's a terrible look for that game. How much of a turnoff is it for new players to come in to a game and see one faction at nearly every table, getting so much attention? This appearance sends so many bad messages.

[mhsellwood]

Worth noting that there is a hint that tomorrow will see a reveal of a non Stormcast release.

To be fair I feel that we will quite a significant number of AoS releases this year - we had a significant change in how battletomes were done and the game was played when the Generals Handbook was released, and then we had basically six months with no major releases. I think this probably indicates that there has been a bit of a re-think and re-work of some releases that we might otherwise have seen. GW had a massive success with Sylvaneth and the General Handbook. They will want to take the lessons from that success and use it make the whole experience of AoS better.

On the Stormcast, I can completely understand why they are releasing this. The current starter set is intended to get new players in, so a fair number of noobs are going to be doing Stormcast. Previously though there was no nice easy 'second step'. The next step was two battletomes (eternals + extremis) and the generals handbook? That is a lot to buy. Now, if you want to continue there is a nice second step - buy the new battletome, buy the start collecting box. In addition, long run if you like Stormcast you can get a much more varied army which again provides a longer sales tail.

[Riavan]

9 hours ago, Goodapollo4 said:

Man, I am soooo glad I just picked up a bunch of Stormcast. Super exciting, gives me something to work on when I get tired of painting another million rats...Which, lets be honest, is almost never. But for real though, this will be fun, and the new direction they are taking with the battletomes is a welcome shot in the arm. 

Yeah I have a few lying around and i think I'll grab a few more to make a 1k army since they are so easy to paint.

[Davariel]

I'd be less disappointed by the fact that we're getting yet another Stormcast release if these new guys didn't look so much like kitbashes of existing models...  

The gryph-hounds are completely awesome though, and long overdue. Curious to see what these other creatures mentioned are like!

[Turragor]

5 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I'm not particularly concerned about rules bloat (in fact, I think there are a few more rules that should be added to the base rules or at very least matched play rules), and I love the new gryphs.

That said, I think that this is a really bad decision by GW. As most of you surely know, GW has a long history of providing heavier support for factions that are more popular (sometimes to an egregious extent). While this no doubt makes good business sense in the short term, in the long run I think there is a real risk that it will be very bad for the game. I think there are two main reasons for this:

• Seeing other factions get multiple releases before your faction gets updates really pisses players off. I know I shouldn't speak for others here, but this is why I quit WHFB just before 8th edition. I was a Wood Elf player, and I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of support. I fully expected my army book to be among the last to get redone. When 8th edition was announced though, it became clear that I wasn't going to get an update for 7th at all, and in fact many armies that had already been updated in 7th were getting 8th edition books soon after release. I felt this was such a slap in the face and it really turned me off the game. Dwarf, Aelf, and to a lesser extent Death players are no doubt looking at this announcement and slumping in their chairs a bit.
• These sorts of releases strongly encourage power creep. If a faction is well fleshed out in the current system, then current players probably already have fully functional armies built. In order to sell the new models, they have to either look amazing or function better than existing options (preferably both). This impetus is less prevalent for unupdated factions because those factions are already likely to be underperforming (and thus they don't need to be pushed beyond the current level of "competitive") and they are dealing with older sculpts. Players are much more likely to replace old sculpts for purely aesthetic rather than power reasons. 

As many people other than me have noted, this strategy very quickly becomes a vicious cycle. If only popular factions get updated regularly, then of course those factions are going to get an increasingly large share of the playerbase. People cite the predominance of space marines in 40k all the time, and frankly it's a terrible look for that game. How much of a turnoff is it for new players to come in to a game and see one faction at nearly every table, getting so much attention? This appearance sends so many bad messages.

I can maybe see why you'd have concerns but I don't think they're (yet) rational.

I see it as this: They turned a corner with their approach to battletomes rendering some older ones a bit useless (I've got Stormcast and Extremis tomes myself).

They've been working on updates to those tomes that are already released but now out of date (because the models / launch for these ranges are already done and out there) and will be shooting them out in between their already set release schedule for new-new stuff (which they've maybe been editing the battletomes for).

The models coming with this have been ready, probably, since around launch.

I know Stormcast feel like they get attention (they do for a few very logical reasons that ppl have shared, poster boys, launch range, space marine success comparison) but I have to point out that as an army from scratch, they would need a lot to become 'complete'.

If they were to be a subfaction (like say, Fireslayers or Sylvaneth) they may not need to be complete, but I think GW's aim with them is to get them on a par with the old school armies: Light and heavy troops, light and heavy ranged, light and heavy cavalry, a form of large monster, a kind of artillery.

I am deducing that from the oft reiterated 'chamber' structure - sacrosanct, auxillary, ruination, extremis.

 

[Ollie Grimwood]

Stormcast are obviously selling well. It the way of things if it sells they make more of it. An updated Battletome is good news I'm hopeful it'll set a bit of a precedent.

Any thoughts on what else we'll be seen from this surprise release? It seems GW are still able to keep a few things up their sleeve.

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[Sombremine]

14 hours ago, Kramer said:

Very possible but you could also explain it like this: by not interlily killing slaanesh off they keep the door open for slaanesh players to make the switch from warhammer to AoS. Which would be priority one (same with the compendium scrolls). And keeping slaanesh in limbo does not hurt anyone. 

Although personally I expect the elves release will bring slaanesh back. In some unexplored part of the shadow realm. Mostly based on the elf assassin from the silver tower game. 

But my point was. That they would always fit the fluff to the armies and maybe  the ongoing narrative. 

I am betting on a new AoS box in the Summer with Aelves vs Slaanesh.... 

[scrubyandwells]

6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I'm not particularly concerned about rules bloat (in fact, I think there are a few more rules that should be added to the base rules or at very least matched play rules), and I love the new gryphs.

That said, I think that this is a really bad decision by GW. As most of you surely know, GW has a long history of providing heavier support for factions that are more popular (sometimes to an egregious extent). While this no doubt makes good business sense in the short term, in the long run I think there is a real risk that it will be very bad for the game. I think there are two main reasons for this:

• Seeing other factions get multiple releases before your faction gets updates really pisses players off. I know I shouldn't speak for others here, but this is why I quit WHFB just before 8th edition. I was a Wood Elf player, and I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of support. I fully expected my army book to be among the last to get redone. When 8th edition was announced though, it became clear that I wasn't going to get an update for 7th at all, and in fact many armies that had already been updated in 7th were getting 8th edition books soon after release. I felt this was such a slap in the face and it really turned me off the game. Dwarf, Aelf, and to a lesser extent Death players are no doubt looking at this announcement and slumping in their chairs a bit.
• These sorts of releases strongly encourage power creep. If a faction is well fleshed out in the current system, then current players probably already have fully functional armies built. In order to sell the new models, they have to either look amazing or function better than existing options (preferably both). This impetus is less prevalent for unupdated factions because those factions are already likely to be underperforming (and thus they don't need to be pushed beyond the current level of "competitive") and they are dealing with older sculpts. Players are much more likely to replace old sculpts for purely aesthetic rather than power reasons. 

As many people other than me have noted, this strategy very quickly becomes a vicious cycle. If only popular factions get updated regularly, then of course those factions are going to get an increasingly large share of the playerbase. People cite the predominance of space marines in 40k all the time, and frankly it's a terrible look for that game. How much of a turnoff is it for new players to come in to a game and see one faction at nearly every table, getting so much attention? This appearance sends so many bad messages.

Personally, I tend to view AoS as really kicking off ~6 months ago with the release of GHB and the Sylvaneth BT. In that regard, the game is ~6 months old. In that time, it hasn't released anything (except the Lord Veritant) for its main faction. The main faction has lacked a BT reflective of the (new) game for a half-year. So on that level, I can appreciate this up-to-date SCE BT release. And if they're going to do it, I can see the interest in releasing it with a new chamber / new models. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by scrubyandwells

[Turragor]

7 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Stormcast are obviously selling well. It the way of things if it sells they make more of it. An operated Battletome is good news I'm hopeful it'll set a bit of a precedent.

Any thoughts on what else we'll be seen from this surprise release? It seems GW are still able to keep a few things up their sleeve.


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I have to assume GWs 'literal' naming tradition carries over with the gryph-chargers and aetherwings.

I'd probably bet on the chargers being the mounted light cavalry. I would almost guess the aetherwings as a kind of "gryph-fon" knight but the 'charger' compells me to say they are mounted.

So Aetherwings (for me) sound like maybe we'll get flying Gryph hounds, that is solo beast models.

Now Gryph hounds don't roam alone, you've castellants and veritants to kinda manage them...

So maybe we'll see a solo stormcast model, even more pelted up, as a kind of beastmaster for these flying and running creatures? Yes? No?

 

[Nevvermore]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that you don't get the points for DoT in the app, even if you have the GHB, unless you buy the digital Battletome. This is a pretty huge step backwards IMO, the GHB should include any and all points for the game, and be updated accordingly when new units arrive. Obviously we'll get all the points again with the next GHB, but it seems backwards to not give us the updated points costs for the units.

[Kramer]

10 minutes ago, Sombremine said:

I am betting on a new AoS box in the Summer with Aelves vs Slaanesh.... 

Haha I'm hoping, does that count as well  Currently expanding the first and just started on the second so bring me that spire of dawn style double army.