The Rumour Thread

[Feanor]

Into the skaven release again i think we will see new sculpt for eshin soon. There weren't showed in any photo or picture right now. Also the deathrunner from ST could be included in an eshin revamp. 

Really hope GW will do something for night runners, they look awful and old 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Feanor
Wrong name

[Aeryenn]

59 minutes ago, Elazar The Glorified said:

With the whole bigger or smaller factions thing it's worth highlighting that there was clearly a point in time when they moved between a plan of having lots and lots of sub factions and really playing up the differences between elements that had previously made up the same army to aiming to give both the sub factions and the overall faction more depth by highlighting their differences and also how they then come together. The first obvious examples of this were Legions of Nagash and then the Beasts pulling smaller factions back together (e.g. Monsters, Brayherd and Warherd) . Then Gloomspite did similar and now Skaven since. They could have expanded a specific element further but clearly the strategy has changed with these now 

I'm not convinced things are as you think. I always perceived Legions of Nagash battletome as a kind of excuse, temporary solution. It was like: "people really want some Death stuff and we have literally nothing to show them for X years. Let's throw them a battletome that will satisfy their hunger for a while". I would agree with you if new models from across all Death subfactions came with the battletome release. That would make things clear "Death is Death, united".

The way they treated Beasts of Chaos I see as a decision between "do we abandon that range or at least we make a battletome?". Battletome alone increased sales of some BoC models so it was worth the effort but there was no signal as if they want to expand the idea of BoC. Except for the spells no new models were released.

Gloomspite is again a different thing. In one part it's a brand new release (Moonclan) and the second part is pulling things together.

If you were right then we should not see any new Death factions like Nighthaunt (which came after the LoN?). I still think that at some moment in time we will see solo Deathrattle battletome and maybe other (Vampires?).

[Elazar The Glorified]

You might be right but I don't think things come out in the same strict order they're worked upon and I suppose as owners of the IP they always have the option of later fleshing these sub factions out. Would be quite interesting to hear about it on the Stormcast Podcast actually, if there is a reasoning 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Elazar The Glorified

[Skreech Verminking]

11 minutes ago, Aryann said:

If you were right then we should not see any new Death factions like Nighthaunt (which came after the LoN?). I still think that at some moment in time we will see solo Deathrattle battletome and maybe other (Vampires?).

And I can see something similar happening for many factions.

But sometimes it’s better to have at least some kind of an release which make the armie much more enjoyable in playing, then to have to wait another 3-6years.

edit: also Bringing a few armies back together, isn’t bad at all.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Gaz Taylor]

5 minutes ago, Aryann said:

I'm not convinced things are as you think. I always perceived Legions of Nagash battletome as a kind of excuse, temporary solution. It was like: "people really want some Death stuff and we have literally nothing to show them for X years. Let's throw them a battletome that will satisfy their hunger for a while". I would agree with you if new models from across all Death subfactions came with the battletome release. That would make things clear "Death is Death, united".

The way they treated Beasts of Chaos I see as a decision between "do we abandon that range or at least we make a battletome?". Battletome alone increased sales of some BoC models so it was worth the effort but there was no signal as if they want to expand the idea of BoC. Except for the spells no new models were released.

Gloomspite is again a different thing. In one part it's a brand new release (Moonclan) and the second part is pulling things together.

If you were right then we should not see any new Death factions like Nighthaunt (which came after the LoN?). I still think that at some moment in time we will see solo Deathrattle battletome and maybe other (Vampires?).

Yup I agree with this. I also think there has been a strong demand for people with models for certain factions to have an army book of sorts and I think these sorts of books are ideal. They give players what they want but also allow GW to address the range and remove anything they aren't interested in producing (due to sales, complexity in manufacturing/something has happened the molds, or supporting from a game point of view with point updates and how the models interact in the game). I think with the minimalist touch as well it means that they can put more effort into the newer things they are working on as well. I also suspect they are doing a lot of investment behind the scenes, which probably requires a lot of resource for (word is they are looking at new generators, manufacturing equipment, ERP system, etc).

Anyway, less of this talk and more rumour type talk. We have the LVO Preview happening this week (which I'm surprised about as I thought it wasn't happening), so we should be seeing lots of cool stuff to discuss. I think it will have a strong Chaos focus if I'm honest but let's see what happens.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/04/feb4-this-week-at-the-lvogw-homepage-post-3/

On another note, Martin from Warhammer TV has said on Twitter they will look to see if they can get a Skaven vs Flesh Eater Courts match on Warhammer TV. He's not confirmed if Ben Johnson will be playing both armies due to Ben being a massive fan of both.

Also not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet....

That sounds amazing!!!!

 

[JackStreicher]

I honestly would not mind if they united all elves in one tome as long as they keep the factions as some kind of stormhosts. These Stormhost should represent the God(s) those elves follow:
Malerion, Alarielle, Tyrion & Teclis. Then you have a set of Allegiance abilitites which are available to every faction of followers. Once you chose your "Stromhost" you get one additional Allegiance ability.

I imagine it like this: You can add any aelven subfaction you like to your army which is aligned to one of three gods.

Example: You pick a Darkling Covens unit for your "Stormhost" which follows Alarielle. Now Alarielle stands for Nature in this case (and pretty much everything wanderers are).
So they'd now get a effect that reflects their darker being in combination with nature: They can deepstrike due to guerilla ambush tactics, or sth. of the likes. While Wanderers might get increased shooting capabilitites. You could compare this with the Bad Moon Effects which buff different units differently though the buffs differ from god to god for every subfaction.
 

 

[stato]

That FEC book looks pretty thin, obviously its just a mockup render but hope its got some reasonable content. Was quite disappointed when my Nighthaunt book dropped through the door on release day, felt like it would double in thickness if they included the 4 pages of rules.

[Double Misfire]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

@Aryann I think that's more because most old world races started out 30 years ago or so. So when they started they were one trick faction focused armies. Over time as GW added more models the number of tools and themes each army had increased over and over again. Skaven are a prime example of an army that has steadily grown and grown in variety and diversity through its range.

🤨

Er, no they weren't. If anything they became the complete opposite, with certain armies becoming more "one trick" or playstyle focused over time. When Warhammer first debuted as a mass fantasy battlegame (with an RPG/narrative focus and GMed games advised) for people to use their collections of Citadel Miniatures in, the first army lists were pretty samey affairs divided by race, with each list having access to combat characters, heroes, troops, elite troops and cavalry, all of which could be armed with missile weapons, generic monsters and in the case of most lists an artillery piece, all only really separated by a basic statline.

It was as the setting and it's inhabitants began to become more fleshed, that some armies slowly began to narrow their focus and settle into a gameplay niche  -Dwarfs losing cavalry and then wizards, Chaos losing access to missile troops, and Bretonnia becoming cavalry charge focused and losing (then regaining) artillery being the easiest examples. Yes, you could obviously argue that with the setting's development and expansion you were greeted with a greater variety of units, but not playstyles or battlefield roles (let's face it, White Lions, Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard are all High Elf elite melee infantry armed with double handed weapons).

There have even been instances of entire swathes of units and options being dropped from an army list because they didn't fit with the people at the top's vision of the setting, the most notable probably being the launch of 6th edition when halflings, Empire War Wagons, Kislevites, Imperial Dwarfs, Imperial and Orc and Goblin Ogres, Forest Goblins and Spider Riders, and Wood Elf chariots all went bye-bye (though to be fair many of these remained available to their parent armies as Dogs of War if you didn't mind giving up a rare choice for them).

It's interesting that you use Skaven as an example - Skaven were the first instance of a fully fleshed out army being added to the game, and having developed less organically than the others (not starting out as a Tolkien/historical/fantasy trope pastiche) have kept much of their original structure and MO. When Skaven first deubted they were a cowardly horde army, with lots of powerful special weapons prone to going wrong, and included Grey Seers, Warlords, Warlock Engineers, Assassins, Stormvermin, Clanrats, Slaves, Warpfire Throwers (RIP 😟), Poisoned Wind Globadiers, Plague Monks, Moulder Beastmasters, Giant Rats, Rat Ogres and the generic monsters everyone got - that's a bigger selection of troops than most new AoS armies get on launch, and really your core Skaven, with every new unit monster or hero subsequently introduced being a variation on one of the originals.

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, stato said:

That FEC book looks pretty thin, obviously its just a mockup render but hope its got some reasonable content. Was quite disappointed when my Nighthaunt book dropped through the door on release day, felt like it would double in thickness if they included the 4 pages of rules.

It's the same price as the Skaven one and will likely have a loooot less warscrolls, so I'm hoping for lots of juicy background content! 

[Beliman]

Imho, they need to bring all armies under AoS 2/3 settings (lore-wise and gameplay-wise). Make it clearly what they want to do with AoS.

That doesn't mean to stop any new faction, GW can  do whatever they want. They can merge all Aelves in one battletome, and next year build a new army like DoK and take Aelves from last battletome (or 2 keywords). Even swap units between Grand Allegiance (ogors and fyreslayers!!) and even put some mercenary rules in the White Dwarf. 

The customer need to feel that he/she is buying products for AoS, and GW know that (and I'm not talking about money). Someone that just bought an old WFB army and feels that his/her army doesn't belong to AoS is something that will hurt in the long run (they need to kill any shadow from TombKings and Bretonnia ASAP).

[JPjr]

@xking Imperial Ogres included one of my favourite old models funnily enough... I think they were counted as mercenaries/dogs of war in imperial army lists (though I could be mistaken)

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=37660.0

 

edit: I think that was 3rd edition, 4th actually let you take them as part of the army.

edit 2: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/430528/look-empire-list-3rd-7th-edition list of all the available imperial units for each edition.

Edited February 6, 2019 by JPjr

[Jamopower]

You used to get units of Halflings, Ogres and dwarfs in an Empire army. They were in the list, not allies.

[eciu]

52 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

That sounds amazing!!!!

So you say that GW managed to make KO player even more grumpy ? 

Edited February 6, 2019 by eciu

[Aeryenn]

With this discussion few questions come to mind: how many factions are planned? Is there a plan at all? How many factions can rules team balance? How many factions can GW support (rules and models when next edition of AoS comes?). 

I wouldn't mind if new releases where endless but then I don't want a situation where older factions are being forgotten. I'd rather all factions, from Fyreslayers and Ironjawz to Aelves and Chaos received new rules and models every 2-3 years. I just wonder when GW will say (if they will) "ok, that's our last new faction. choose from what we offer.".

[Overread]

Darn it GW hurry up and give us that studio preview!

It's a long wait until 9pm USA time Thursday!! 

[Klamm]

I actually think GW should go forward with a mix of diverse 'mega-factions' (Legions of Nagash, Skaven) AND smaller niche offerings (Sylvaneth, Ironjawz),  obviously sticking with the middleweight class too (Idoneth Deepkin, Seraphon). There's an appeal in both an expansive sandbox and a niche, distinct faction identity.

But, and this is where it's just my opinion, there comes a point where certain factions like the 4 Kit (plus 1) Flesh Eater Courts just don't have enough 'meat' to them. Proper fixes for this becomes modifying the lore to fit with a 'merger' or supplementing the faction with fresh releases (which with FEC they're trying, and the debate is whether that's enough).

It's making me wonder about the Duardin/Ogor rumours we've been getting. There's a similarity in that both old world armies have been fragmented, with at least one splinter being a codified AoS army which has been criticized for its lack of diversity (Beastclaw Raiders and Fyreslayers). Do we see them getting into a grand Duardin/Ogor coaltion? It's anybody's guess.

My prediction would be that Kharadron Overlords always remain independent, as they have a strong aesthetic ripe for future development and have independence baked in. As for the Fyreslayers, I could possibly see them getting combined in a Dwarf 'Gloomspite' style release that emphasizes the three traditional Duardin ancestor gods: Grimnir's Fyreslayers (receiving no new models, as their modest number is sufficient as an army's 'third'), Grungni (who gets an actual model release following his appearance in various novels, and leads a cleaned-up Dispossessed faction with the appropriate Ironweld mixed in) and Valaya (presumed-dead Goddess making a comeback with a small, mixed-gender pious sub-faction). 

As for the Ogors, it could really go either way. If FEC is anything to go by, Gutbusters have enough diversity to go it alone. Firebellies or even Maneaters could be expanded to a whole subfaction. My guess would be that the BCR remain separate, but hope that they would get a few kits accompanying a fleshed out Gutbuster release. All BCR need to feel like a vibrant faction is rules rewrite and a few extra models. If they released new Yhetees along with a Yhetee Ice Shaman hero, I'd jump on that frozen wagon immediately (the lustre of endless spells and terrain is starting to wane a little for me, but I'd be hyped about massive ice-blizzard pieces. Like, how appropriate would it be to have purple sun sized ice vortexes of the Everwinter?).

 

[michu]

Quick, someone take a photo with potato and post it on the internet. Then we will have new post on WH community site in 15 minutes!

[Forrix]

My understanding, at least from when AoS launched, was that they we're wanting a system were they weren't committed to supporting a given army indefinitely.  I think we will see armies armies, even ones released after the launch of AoS, retired to make way for new armies and Stormcast Chambers. That said I would think an army would stick around for at least 5 to 8 years minimum to prevent players from feeling too burned and army popularity would be a big factor too.

In Fantasy GW felt constrained by endlessly supporting the same armies (or so I heard somewhere, several years ago) but that was over a 30 year timeframe.

[zedatkinszed]

35 minutes ago, Klamm said:

But, and this is where it's just my opinion, there comes a point where certain factions like the 4 Kit (plus 1) Flesh Eater Courts just don't have enough 'meat' to them. Proper fixes for this becomes modifying the lore to fit with a 'merger' or supplementing the faction with fresh releases (which with FEC they're trying, and the debate is whether that's enough).

 

I really don't see the issue here. DoK, Sylvaneth and Fyreslayers all have low kit counts if you exclude heroes. DoK have 3 and a half with no heroes sold separately (excluding Morathi). Sylvaneth have 4 kits excluding all of their heroes. Fyreslayers have 3 (if you count the Chosen Axes) excluding Heroes, as do the FEC. If that works for GW financially then yeah Darkling Covens, Wanderers and Gutbusters should be fine as factions and get their own seperate battletomes. The only last group that requires a compendium (LoN/BoC/Skaven) battletome to work are High Aelves. And TBH I hope they get one (just not one that includes Darkling Covens or Wanderers).

I really don't see the LoN/BoC armies wiping out the smaller factions. They can and should co-exist. As we see with the Gitz & BoC the bigger books allow for sub-groups (i.e Tzaangor only armies) so there's no long term benefit in fold armies with GHB allegiance abilities into bigger books.

The only factions that are in really disfficulty IMHO are Dispossessed and Greenskinz due to the age of the models, and the non-Darkling Dark Aelves (Scourgerunner Privateers, Shadowblades and Order Serpentis) they have maybe 2 kits max many of which are half kits shared with other factions. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by zedatkinszed

[Overread]

The thing is small model variety armies are not as interesting in many ways. They lack the variety to make them chop and change in big ways and the model diversity to keep them as interesting medium to long term. Skaven or Goblins have way more choices and variety; Stormcast too. There are loads of ways to build and vary teh army which mechnically and visually changes them.

Daughters of Khaine or, even worse, Fyreslayers basically rely on so few models that there's a far more limited practical pool of choices. Fyreslayers are even more hampered because they are visually very similar. 

 

So you can end up with neat armies, but ones where the players burn out faster. Meanwhile payers of Goblins or Skaven or other bigger armies are more likely to stick with them and keep investing. 

 

 

That siad most of the armies we are worried about are newer and smaller forces. GW has years to add things to them or even mash them with another army whilst retaining the lore. Daughters of Khaine could absorb the Darkling Covens; whilst Fyreslayers could the Disspossessed. 

[HollowHills]

My biggest concern about AoS is that they won't release models for factions after their initial launch. That it would be more profitable to release a new army than revisit one for new kits. 

I am really hoping we see some models for aos launch factions just to disprove that.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, HollowHills said:

My biggest concern about AoS is that they won't release models for factions after their initial launch. That it would be more profitable to release a new army than revisit one for new kits. 

I am really hoping we see some models for aos launch factions just to disprove that.

Honestly I think that was the plan for AoS at the start - hence the legion of subfactions. I think now they are back to a normal GW product and GW will release new models at some point in the future. Same as they did for fantsy back in the old world ;same as they do for Lord of the Rings, Necromunda, 40K and others. AoS is a normal regular game for them and they will keep it updated.

To do otherwise would be madness. 

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, xking said:

What day is the LVO Preview?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/04/feb4-this-week-at-the-lvogw-homepage-post-3/

Thursday Night at 2100 I think (US Time, as in Vegas Pacific Time?)  

[HorticulusTGA]

1 hour ago, xking said:

What day is the LVO Preview?

8PM Las Vegas time Thursday, the GW article should be up either at the start as they usually do, or just after the Seminar (usually 1 hour so around 9PM). 

In Europe / thats between 4 and 6 AM Friday... AARG

[Televiper11]

My take away from the last few pages here is that my friend's newly-acquired, freshly painted Swifthawk Agents army is basically DOA. That's a shame, they are so much fun to play against and really just need a few minor tweaks to be really competitive.