The Rumour Thread

[Turgol]

CGI design can make use of other designs. There is no secret to that. Hand designers also copy or get inspired by existing designs. Here, recycling is just easier and, well, perfect. Of course, except on very specific cases, only parts get reused, which need to be put into a completely different whole than its origin. Depending on how good the designer is, this can lead to mindblowing products or meh products. 

 

Bottomline: recycling capability of CGI technology is not per se good or bad. It is a great tool in the right hands and can lead to lazy designs in bad hands.

 

Although it ia not part of the mindblowing lot, I would certainly rank the new FEC guy as a success. Here is any part was reused, it does not affect quality.

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

Saying these guys look alike is like saying the megaboss looks like a brute. Of course they do because they're the same race. However nearly every element of this guy is clearly not the same as the other. Like the other commenter, I'll grant you the 1 foot is probably reused.

Said the 3D specialist who knows exactly the workflow. - typical dunning-krueger-effect. 

the base strigoi was rigged, reposed and then they fiddled with making some features bulkier (that‘s 2 clicks for gods sake, most likely already happened in the T/Y-Pose). Shorter claws which were separate meshes anyway, a few more details on the head and broader teeth. Done.

now make the loincloth more fabulous and add the shoulderpad.

 

-> Standard reuse of old assets. Very good reuse you can‘t complain about. -> The way it‘s supposed to be done

 

@Turgol 

exactly. Though time investment and time put into finding a design is also very important (2 essential parts these new spells and the throne lack)

Edited February 5, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Ungface]

9 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Yeah, we must wait. But it doesn't look that good (in balance terms) to begin with.

Dont you remember how much of a storm the moon doing mortal wounds caused?

Amd how everyone that cried OP looked silly once the whole context was released.

[DanielFM]

6 hours ago, Chikout said:

The comparison to Lord of tides is strange. There is another command ability in the same book that is literally 3 times as good. 

In addition the round the extra attack goes off Idoneth all hit first so you can guarantee your chosen unit will use it to full effect. The Idoneth special rule let's you keep your general alive until the vital moment, etc etc

Yes, and it's on a unique character, that people automatically takes over the regular one. Maybe that speaks worse of internal than external balance.

Forgotten Nightmares protect against shooting. Hero phase mortal wounds and spells will kill it just fine (not Volturnos, but I hate the guy! 🤣

5 hours ago, Neinball said:

I find it it hilarious that the choice of argument about balance is Idoneth vs FEC. Like you do realize that Idoneth are a top tier army and FEC are no where near their power level, right? You can’t just flatly compare one specific ability vs another specific ability, you’ve got to include the whole package as Idoneth seem to be getting by just fine with that command ability the way it is now, whereas FEC definitely need something to boost them up.

The way things are now that spell alone would not be enough to bring FEC onto the top tables, but it’s a start depending on what else they get. Remember what was said before, FEC have a very limited selection of units and very little variety between those few units. If the army is a one trick pony, then it needs to be able to do that trick better than most other armies, so you will find situations where yes this one spell/command ability is just flat out better than the one in this other army, but there will be other factors in play to help balance it.

What it's hilarious is that top tier IDK lists are spam of 1 units (spear eels) with support characters. How is that any different from FEC being limited in unit choices?

[rosa]

@JackStreicher

Dude...

You complain in every Channel about the quality... Fürther, your Dunning-Kruger comparison is utterly arrogant. You are the awesome 3D Specialists and knows best.

To tell the truth, this ist what the Dunning-Kruger effect is about... think about it!

 

We understand that you dont appreciate the effort with this release. Others do...

Criticism is always okay and needed.

But stop accepting your opinion as the only truth.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by rosa
Edit

[JackStreicher]

59 minutes ago, rosa said:

@JackStreicher

Dude...

You complain in every Channel about the quality... Fürther, your Dunning-Kruger comparison is utterly arrogant. You are the awesome 3D Specialists and knows best.

To tell the truth, this ist what the Dunning-Kruger effect is about... think about it!

 

We understand that you dont appreciate the effort with this release. Others do...

Criticism is always okay and needed.

But stop accepting your opinion as the only truth.

 

 

 

Danning-Krueger: Not having the know-how for the task and getting self-confidence from it and therefor thinking they know best. No it's not the same with me. I've been doing this for a decade and then s.o. comes around the corner telling me that I am wrong because they look different (shorter claws, apparently broader and a different head)
 

 

 

It has nothing to do with arrogance. I explained how it works and how those miserable miniatures came to be (lack of time, effort and design).
I see my opinion as the only opinion being based on actual experience with the subject of CONCERNING 3D Modeling /3D Sculpts and not about whether the models look good or not.

You can also think about it this way: Soem random stranger comes around the corner to your workplace. Tells you what you are doing is wrong because it looks different than he/she expected, though you know for a fact that it's right. Would it be arrogant now if you tell the person that what you are doing is right, while showing the person why it's right? Well but that person insists that's it's wrong. How do you react now?

You can like the models or don't like them that's fine my opinion whether the models look good or not is just an opinion.
In the realm of 3D modelling what they did is subjectively lazy and bad practise, impudent even towards their consumers.
So if people come up with "recycleing is fine" and the likes I feel obligated to tell them the subjective truth about it: Yes it is fine, but here it is too much, with too little effort and lazily done. So it's far from fine in this case.
Often it seems to me people just like it because it's "New" and it's from "GW". (which btw never recycled on that abnormal scale)

Edited February 5, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

@JackStreicher - just a simple warning. You have made your point. No need to labour it any more. This forum is for everybody and nobody wants to listen to somebody going on about the same thing.

Cheers

[obaobaboss]

This bit from the warhammer-community article is interesting

 

"We can’t reveal anything about this year’s LVO preview yet, save that it’s going to blow you away, whatever you collect."

 

Whatever we collect sounds like some new things not bound to a specific faction. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by obaobaboss

[Walrustaco]

7 minutes ago, obaobaboss said:

This bit from the warhammer-community article is interesting

 

"We can’t reveal anything about this year’s LVO preview yet, save that it’s going to blow you away, whatever you collect."

 

Whatever we collect sounds like some new things not bound to a specific faction. 

Yes, yes. Either that or they are specifically talking to me.

[RuneBrush]

Morning folks!

Thought this was the best place to post this up.  I've been away at the HH Weekender this weekend and although not an AoS event, am able to provide a bit of feedback on a few FW things.

First off, the way Forge World provides items for AoS and 40k has been changed.  There is no longer a dedicated team of people creating content for the two game systems.  Instead the rules elements now is being handled by the appropriate design studio.  This is a fairly recent change from the seem of it (within the last month or so).  What does this mean for us?  Nobody yet knows, we never saw what the old team were capable of as it only existed for a few months.  However, the change should help to ensure that future warscrolls have more consistency, but could equally change what we see being produced and may mean some of the interesting items (like multi faction keywords) may never come to fruition.

Secondly, we've seen our first "Ruinstorm Daemon" as an exclusive base for Sanguinius and it looks amazing.  To surmise, Ruinstorm Daemons are basically "generic daemons", they don't fit into the chaos alignment as we understand it.  Why am I telling you this?  Because the new daemons are going to be rife to be integrated into our existing Chaos (or similar ) armies as champions and heroes!

Lastly Warhammer Fest is happening at the Richo again on the 11th & 12th of May.  Speaking to the gent organising it (and the Weekender), its having "revolutionary" changes - what they are is anybodies guess, however with 8 Games Days under his belt and seeing how well the majority of the Weekender went I'm really looking forward to it.  I just need to work out what GD entries to do

[Barkanaut]

18 minutes ago, obaobaboss said:

This bit from the warhammer-community article is interesting

 

"We can’t reveal anything about this year’s LVO preview yet, save that it’s going to blow you away, whatever you collect."

 

Whatever we collect sounds like some new things not bound to a specific faction. 

GW always says this and usually 99% chance it just means more marines lol. 

[JackStreicher]

14 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

GW always says this and usually 99% chance it just means more marines lol. 

true XD

[Overread]

I'm sort of worried that FW disbanded the idea of separate delivery teams before, it seems, the separate delivery team could deliver anything for AoS save for a handful of heads for Stormcast. I wonder what the rational behind that change was and I wonder what will come in the future. Chaos demons are always easy for them because they fit both game systems without any issues. 

It's just really odd to me and I wonder if FW hasn't either found itself stretched too thin with the rising popularity of specialist games that they found they couldn't afford/staff two separate teams (very possible) or that they just don't have any fantasy designers left within their ranks and that they are all heavily sci-fi/Dune/space focused to the point where they either can't come up with ideas or even lack the skill set to achieve them (eg AoS makes far more use of human poses and monsters - both of which are likely very different sculpting skill sets). 

 

 

Naw this time around I think its more Chaos Marines

But yeah marketing talk always bigs things up. You'll be blown away by 1 new dice if marketing get their free hand at promoting things

Edited February 5, 2019 by Overread

[Azamar]

14 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Idoneth Deepkin Lord of Tides Command Ability:

Wholy within 12", only +1 attack (you must spend extra CPs to get extra attacks) and only useable during the third turn.

How is that not uber lift? Only downside is that the FEC you can try to dispel.

Late to the discussion, but the idoneth ability will usually be on units that are more powerful than the FEC ones. +1 attack on a morrsarr’s weapons hurts more than +2/3 attacks on a ghoul and so on, and even the stronger FEC units usually have a worse hit roll. Speaking as an idoneth player with no interest in collecting FEC it doesn’t seem so very bad to me (undoubtedly strong but not broken).

time will tell though I guess. 

[stato]

1 minute ago, Overread said:

I'm sort of worried that FW disbanded the idea of separate delivery teams before, it seems, the separate delivery team could deliver anything for AoS save for a handful of heads for Stormcast. I wonder what the rational behind that change was and I wonder what will come in the future. Chaos demons are always easy for them because they fit both game systems without any issues. 

It's just really odd to me and I wonder if FW hasn't either found itself stretched too thin with the rising popularity of specialist games that they found they couldn't afford/staff two separate teams (very possible) or that they just don't have any fantasy designers left within their ranks and that they are all heavily sci-fi/Dune/space focused to the point where they either can't come up with ideas or even lack the skill set to achieve them (eg AoS makes far more use of human poses and monsters - both of which are likely very different sculpting skill sets). 

Maybe they just dont want to branch AoS into Forgeworld stuff in a big way?   They seem to be back on the 30k train, and with specialist games also getting a lot of support they might be scaling back developing a lot of stuff for 40k and AoS.  The last things they produced for 40k were a Necron Knight sized thing and the Primaris supertank (ok so the new titan is also 40k but primarily 30k). 

I wonder if there are any more rumours for Forgeworld stuff that went under the radar, and might indicate what they are planning.  Those Stormcast heads kinda came out on nowhere.

 

[michu]

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that FW now will be making only HH and Specialist games. No new things for 40k or AoS. Is that true @RuneBrush?

[Overread]

Thing is HH might sell decently but its nothing like 40K nor AoS; plus a lot of the HH stuff still sells to 40K players who use it as counts as in games. 

I'd be surprised if FW didn't make anything for AoS nor 40K. It just seems such an odd move considering the history of the studio. If specialist games are really selling that strongly I'd expect them to take on a few more staff to cover that rather than shut down avenues. Of course the AoS stuff might not be selling that strongly, but then Fantasy was ignored for ages and GW hasn't pushed the FW stuff that strongly for AoS as yet. They've even only done one pass at the rules and even then admitted that many werent' where they wanted. Why things like hte Myrwurm hasn't got Idoneth set as as a key word baffles me. A 5 second edit of the file and they'd likely make a lot more sales of the very iconic model to the pure undersea iconic army. 

[stato]

31 minutes ago, michu said:

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that FW now will be making only HH and Specialist games. No new things for 40k or AoS. Is that true @RuneBrush?

I would imagine they will continue to do one-offs,  certainly they seem to have scaled back on 40k compared to other systems.  I hope they do some AoS, i really want Stormcast upgrade packs, and KO packs or vehicles would be beyond amazing!  But im cool with them not churning out loads of options and new units with crazy OP rules and points 🤣

[RuneBrush]

40 minutes ago, michu said:

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that FW now will be making only HH and Specialist games. No new things for 40k or AoS. Is that true @RuneBrush?

I wasn't given the indication of that.  For sure the two gents who dealt with "rules" have been reallocated to other areas of FW, but I didn't see that the sculptor had been moved, but as far as I could ascertain we will be getting new AoS resin in the future (bear in mind that a resin model has an 8 ~ 12 month release period after it's been sculpted).

What I would say is that over the past year, FW have been on a fairly aggressive recruitment drive which has allowed them to properly structure that area of the company.  Specialist games and FW have once more got their own dedicated rules guys and sculptors for each game system - for example Neil and Anuj who deal with the HH ruleset now only need to deal with Age of Darkness rules for units - if a unit (e.g. Custodes) needs 40k rules, then it's the main 40k design studio who will create them.  Equally specialist games has one sculptor who is dedicated to just making weapons for Adeptus Titanicus.

What I don't envisage though, is FW producing the quantity of miniatures they did back when we had Warhammer Forge.  One of the challenges is that FW is has a fairly low production capacity and aren't sold in stores, which means that the likihood of seeing Fimir or Chaos Dwarves produced as full armies by FW is probably never going to happen - more likely we'll see them be produced in plastic by the main studio.

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

I'm sort of worried that FW disbanded the idea of separate delivery teams before, it seems, the separate delivery team could deliver anything for AoS save for a handful of heads for Stormcast. I wonder what the rational behind that change was and I wonder what will come in the future. Chaos demons are always easy for them because they fit both game systems without any issues. 

It's just really odd to me and I wonder if FW hasn't either found itself stretched too thin with the rising popularity of specialist games that they found they couldn't afford/staff two separate teams (very possible) or that they just don't have any fantasy designers left within their ranks and that they are all heavily sci-fi/Dune/space focused to the point where they either can't come up with ideas or even lack the skill set to achieve them (eg AoS makes far more use of human poses and monsters - both of which are likely very different sculpting skill sets). 

Ultimately I don't think we'll ever know what the AoS team had in mind.  It only existed for around 7 months before it was changed which isn't long enough for anything to actually happen.

[Overread]

See I don't really want FW doing full armies. The way I see it they should be making hero sculpts; alternate epic models and unique monsters and such for AoS. Full armies are nice, but they are very niche on FW and always come with a high price tag that makes them even more niche. Far better for them to provide alternate parts and unique sculpts.

I guess with GW central being better at doing big models in plastic it has stolen some of FW's thunder, but they can still provide loads of epic monsters and wandering monsters for AoS. The setting is ripe for such additions and beasties. 

 

Also more dragons!

[Gaz Taylor]

Just now, Overread said:

See I don't really want FW doing full armies. The way I see it they should be making hero sculpts; alternate epic models and unique monsters and such for AoS. Full armies are nice, but they are very niche on FW and always come with a high price tag that makes them even more niche. Far better for them to provide alternate parts and unique sculpts.

I guess with GW central being better at doing big models in plastic it has stolen some of FW's thunder, but they can still provide loads of epic monsters and wandering monsters for AoS. The setting is ripe for such additions and beasties. 

 

Also more dragons!

100% this. I think it's quite a good change as it means that forgeworld can get on making cool models and the design studio can come up with the rules (which makes sense as it will fit in better with the game systems).

I'm very interested to see what comes out of the LVO preview as I wasn't expecting there to be one! All I know it's more stuff for me to get excited over and never get round to doing as I will be excited about the stuff after them!  

[Kyriakin]

Why don't FW keyword the remaining warscrolls they already have first?

Fyreslayers are begging for thematic fire stuff like Fireborn, Magma Dragons and Elemental Incarnates of Fire.

The aforementioned Idoneth Myrwerm, as well as BoC Preyton, Skin Wolves and Incarnate Elemental of Beasts, etc.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Overread]

 

 

Latest rumour image from GW. Looks like some kind of piston or driving shaft. Some kind of pump system, perhaps linked to terrain for Necromunda or 40K. Could also be something for AoS as its fairly standard and simplistic design on the metal - functional and could easily fit into KOverlords. 

[Clan's Cynic]

52 minutes ago, Overread said:

See I don't really want FW doing full armies. The way I see it they should be making hero sculpts; alternate epic models and unique monsters and such for AoS. Full armies are nice, but they are very niche on FW and always come with a high price tag that makes them even more niche. Far better for them to provide alternate parts and unique sculpts.

I guess with GW central being better at doing big models in plastic it has stolen some of FW's thunder, but they can still provide loads of epic monsters and wandering monsters for AoS. The setting is ripe for such additions and beasties. 

 

 Also more dragons!

For me it's a question of longevity. With 'mainline' Games Workshop releases of armies that aren't minor ones (Sisters of Silence, Inquisition, etc) you generally know you're safe in going ahead with that army. They're going to get rules updates at some point, they're probably going to get new models in a few years, they're very unlikely to end up squat'ed (I'm saying this without a shred of irony on an Age of Sigmar forum of all places mind you).

Forge World armies just don't have that same guarantee. Chances are they'll receive rules at launch and then anything after that - especially going into future editions - is a very big gamble. Will they ever receive new releases? Will their rules be updated? Will those rules actually be good and not nigh-on unplayable (see: Renegades & Heretics in 8th)? 

I loved Chaos Dwarfs, I loved Renegades and Heretics, but I couldn't justify the risk when I'd already be paying more than a 'mainline GW' army I'd know I was probably safe with going into the future. It's an easier pill to swallow when it's one off, large models that either act as centre pieces, can be proxied or - at worst - you can swallow a £150 model being 'worthless' in a few years so long as it still looks good on the shelf. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Clan's Cynic