The Rumour Thread

[Overread]

I think we all hope for that and that GW pushing out fast tomes puts them in the best position in decades for achiving a better sense of balance. Go back to the Kirby eras and you'd be right - but these are the Rountree era things and the attitude at GW has shifted massively. I'd wager the main stumbling block is actually that we are still mostly dealing with the same staff and thus engrained policies and practices - though the fact that they are hiring more writers and rules designers means that there's a good chance that they'll hopefully invigorate the line with new talent and new ideas. 

[JPjr]

Also remember it's a spell not an ability so there are at least ways and means of shutting that down (or try to anyway).

Edited February 4, 2019 by JPjr

[Ghark]

20 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Except he confessed. 

Do you have a link? It may be helpfull to debunk some rumours issuing from this guy in other forums

[DanielFM]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

@rosa don't forget Flesh Eaters have very few actual models to choose from. So buffs like that make sense because they've got such a limited pool to pick from that they don't have variable units for different roles at present. 

 

Also the uber lift isn't that uber; so far its one ability. And if it brings it into line iwth the other new tomes that's good - we already know that new tomes get alliance abilities and the like. Plus launching with two ravamped tomes  this year suggests strongly that GW is going to update all the pre 2.0 tomes pretty fast! So you shouldn't be long before armies like Seraphon and Fyreslayers are updated

Idoneth Deepkin Lord of Tides Command Ability:

Wholy within 12", only +1 attack (you must spend extra CPs to get extra attacks) and only useable during the third turn.

How is that not uber lift? Only downside is that the FEC you can try to dispel.

[Rogue Explorator]

14 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

It‘s the Strigoi Vampire on Terrorgheist (basemesh) simply reposed with one small wing and a shoulder pad added =}

plus added details to the head.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

If you put them side by side, they actually have got a very different body structure, with different proportions and very different muscle definition (particularly on the arms, the older model is far more defined). The head does not just have details added, it is a completely different head, again, with an entirely different structure. Overall, the archregent is rather bulky with a muscular top-heavy phenotype, while the old Ghoul King is rather lean. The only part that could feasibly be reused is the legs and feet and that is far from certain.

A few of your other assertion just do not hold up either. The horse endless spell certainly is no reused old asset, there is currently no undead horse like it. It was quite likely made from the same basis as the spectral steeds of the Nighthaunt line, but the difference is still quite a bit. The three horses are not the same asset just copied three times either, they actually differ from each other in the detail.

 

I get being upset over FEC staying so limited as a line, endless spells and terrain are nice to have, but hardly what the army really needs. But your accusation that the new stuff is lazy, cheap and easy to make just does not hold any water.

[JackStreicher]

2 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:

A few of your other assertion just do not hold up either. The horse endless spell certainly is no reused old asset, there is currently no undead horse like it. It was quite likely made from the same basis as the spectral steeds of the Nighthaunt line, but the difference is still quite a bit. The three horses are not the same asset just copied three times either, they actually differ from each other in the detail.

 

The part about the strigoi:Well that‘s just wrong

For the rest: not exactly but in a way you confirmed what I said.

if you are interested in every detail they added with two clicks just pm me and I‘ll gladly explain it to you (as soon as I don‘t have to type on a cell phone)

[JackStreicher]

2 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:

A few of your other assertion just do not hold up either. The horse endless spell certainly is no reused old asset, there is currently no undead horse like it. It was quite likely made from the same basis as the spectral steeds of the Nighthaunt line, but the difference is still quite a bit. The three horses are not the same asset just copied three times either, they actually differ from each other in the detail.

 

The part about the strigoi:Well that‘s just wrong

For the rest: not exactly but in a way you confirmed what I said.

if you are interested in every detail they added with two clicks just pm me and I‘ll gladly explain it to you (as soon as I don‘t have to type on a cell phone)

[Dirtnaps]

19 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Idoneth Deepkin Lord of Tides Command Ability:

Wholy within 12", only +1 attack (you must spend extra CPs to get extra attacks) and only useable during the third turn.

How is that not uber lift? Only downside is that the FEC you can try to dispel.

As you said it's a spell, that means it can be dispelled or fail to cast completely. Where as the Deepkin one is a command ability and guaranteed to go off even if it is only in the third turn and the wholly within 12" isn't going to matter all that much because you're eels will be close by, yes the FEC player can use it a turn earlier (I say this assuming they won't actually be able to get into melee on turn one) and yes it is a strong spell, but there are many ways to deny it. 

[Rogue Explorator]

 

I'll just put these two here.

 

I'll stand by what I wrote.

 

[DanielFM]

1 minute ago, Dirtnaps said:

As you said it's a spell, that means it can be dispelled or fail to cast completely. Where as the Deepkin one is a command ability and guaranteed to go off even if it is only in the third turn and the wholly within 12" isn't going to matter all that much because you're eels will be close by, yes the FEC player can use it a turn earlier (I say this assuming they won't actually be able to get into melee on turn one) and yes it is a strong spell, but there are many ways to deny it. 

We don't know if FEC can get bonus to cast. 24" range make it more difficult to dispel it. Plus they can use it turn 2, 3 and 4, 3x more times that IDK. Together with the +1d3 attacks (on average it's as good as using Lord of Tides 2 times), how is it not head and shoulders better?

[lord_blackfang]

14 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

We don't know if FEC can get bonus to cast. 24" range make it more difficult to dispel it. Plus they can use it turn 2, 3 and 4, 3x more times that IDK. Together with the +1d3 attacks (on average it's as good as using Lord of Tides 2 times), how is it not head and shoulders better?

So what if it is? It's as daft as saying IDK are broken because Water Cloak Man is stronger than a Varghulf.

You have no clue how the rest of the armies' assets measure up nor how much FEC things cost.

[Dirtnaps]

Just now, DanielFM said:

We don't know if FEC can get bonus to cast. 24" range make it more difficult to dispel it. Plus they can use it turn 2, 3 and 4, 3x more times that IDK. Together with the +1d3 attacks (on average it's as good as using Lord of Tides 2 times), how is it not head and shoulders better?

I'm not saying it's not better, it's obviously better all I'm saying there are downsides to it that help balance it out a bit. You're right they could take Dark Wizardry (assuming they don't change their command traits) and get a bonus to cast but then you're missing out on Majestic Horror, that and there might be other options that are more appealing if they do change their command traits for the book. Personally I think we should all just hold off on judgement of the spell until we see what else they're getting in the book, it could be that they'll get a strong spell lore that'll make deciding to cast Ferocious Hunger on a unit every turn a hard choice for all we know.

[DanielFM]

6 minutes ago, lord_blackfang said:

So what if it is? It's as daft as saying IDK are broken because Water Cloak Man is stronger than a Varghulf.

You have no clue how the rest of the armies' assets measure up nor how much FEC things cost.

Having individual abilities one-up the previous ones smells of bad balance, power creep and old Warhammer-Fantasy-editions-go-to-hell-as-new-armybooks-get-stronger.

That was a big strawman: you can get almost 3 varghulfs for an Eidolon, and they are collectively better. Spell Vs command ability, one on one, can't be really balanced by points so easily.

We can still wait for the rest of the army to see it context, but a 30 strong Crypt Ghoul unit with an easy to cast +1d3 attacks will be very powerful regardless of that.

5 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

I'm not saying it's not better, it's obviously better all I'm saying there are downsides to it that help balance it out a bit. You're right they could take Dark Wizardry (assuming they don't change their command traits) and get a bonus to cast but then you're missing out on Majestic Horror, that and there might be other options that are more appealing if they do change their command traits for the book. Personally I think we should all just hold off on judgement of the spell until we see what else they're getting in the book, it could be that they'll get a strong spell lore that'll make deciding to cast Ferocious Hunger on a unit every turn a hard choice for all we know.

Yeah, we must wait. But it doesn't look that good (in balance terms) to begin with.

[Sangfroid]

Kill the ghouls before they get to attack I’ve had a Mawkrusha kill a unit of 30 on his own twice in the same game it’s not difficult 

[Inquisitorsz]

1 hour ago, Rogue Explorator said:

 

I'll just put these two here.

 

I'll stand by what I wrote.

 

So you've just proven they're completely different sculpts. 
If you don't like the fact that 2 heavily muscled ghoul characters with bat ears and long claws looks similar then you must really hate space marines.   Soz, thought you were saying they are similar
Agreed
The new sculpt it 100% different. The face, the teeth/mouth, the arms, the armor panels, the pose, etc.... 
They maybe reused the left foot... 

Could they have sculpted something completely different? Sure. He could have massive wings and a mohawk and be wearing stormcast armor. 
But for a ghoul hero, he looks great. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Inquisitorsz

[DanielFM]

20 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

Kill the ghouls before they get to attack I’ve had a Mawkrusha kill a unit of 30 on his own twice in the same game it’s not difficult 

Well, average damage including shooting is 17.5 so I hope you played lottery the same day because you were on a rather unlikely streak.

They regenerate 5 models on average if a crypt ghast courtier is nearby, so it sounds even more difficult to achieve.

[Sangfroid]

Just now, DanielFM said:

Well, average damage including shooting is 17.5 so I hope you played lottery the same day because you were on a rather unlikely streak.

They regenerate 5 models on average if a crypt ghast courtier is nearby, so it sounds even more difficult to achieve.

If you kill 18 then 8+D6 run away to battleshock also I used Waaaghs as well so more attacks on the Mawkrusha than just warscroll. This was at blood and glory 2016 so pre command points but the premise is still the same.  

Basically sometimes the way to beat a new crazy combo is to kill the stuff before it can kill you this is the way of Gorkamorka and works 

 

[DanielFM]

7 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

If you kill 18 then 8+D6 run away to battleshock also I used Waaaghs as well so more attacks on the Mawkrusha than just warscroll. This was at blood and glory 2016 so pre command points but the premise is still the same.  

Basically sometimes the way to beat a new crazy combo is to kill the stuff before it can kill you this is the way of Gorkamorka and works 

 

The remaining 12 get to strike before battleshock kills them, so it doesn't add up to your "kill them before they get to attack". As you say, right now the battleshock can be nullified for 1 command point, all the easier if there is only a single chunky block.

But I guess the general concept is viable. You only need to commit a lot of points to do it reliably. They are only 300 points, after all.

[Overread]

From Dave C on Dakka - prices for the pre-orders!

Carrion Empire £95 $160 

Skaven Battletome £25 $40 
Skaven Endless Spells £20 $35 
Skaven Dice £17.50 $30 
Skaven Gnawholes £32.50 $55 
Skaven Clanrats (repack) £20.50 $35 
Skaven Warscroll Cards £15 $25 

FEC Battletome £25 $40 
FEC Endless Spells £20 $35 
FEC Charnel Throne £20.50 $35 
FEC Warscroll Cards £10 $15 

 

Also https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/04/feb4-this-week-at-the-lvogw-homepage-post-3/

Sounds like we should be hearing some big news on Thursday! Considering that with Skaven and Flesh Eaters leaping out of the pot right now I'd expect a fair bit of AoS news considering that GW has now got everything they've hinted at on the table except for "More Slaanesh in 2019" comments. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Overread

[Carnelian]

2 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Yeah, we must wait. But it doesn't look that good (in balance terms) to begin with.

It's way WAY too early to start worrying about imbalance. Literally all you've seen is a good spell. There are tons of good spells throughout the existing battletomes and warscrolls. This is no different. 

[Chikout]

The comparison to Lord of tides is strange. There is another command ability in the same book that is literally 3 times as good. 

In addition the round the extra attack goes off Idoneth all hit first so you can guarantee your chosen unit will use it to full effect. The Idoneth special rule let's you keep your general alive until the vital moment, etc etc

As for the FEC the new guy will probably be six wounds with a 4 up save. One lucky shot from the Skaven hero and he is dead. End of problem. 

Also we don't know points yet. 

[Neinball]

I find it it hilarious that the choice of argument about balance is Idoneth vs FEC. Like you do realize that Idoneth are a top tier army and FEC are no where near their power level, right? You can’t just flatly compare one specific ability vs another specific ability, you’ve got to include the whole package as Idoneth seem to be getting by just fine with that command ability the way it is now, whereas FEC definitely need something to boost them up.

The way things are now that spell alone would not be enough to bring FEC onto the top tables, but it’s a start depending on what else they get. Remember what was said before, FEC have a very limited selection of units and very little variety between those few units. If the army is a one trick pony, then it needs to be able to do that trick better than most other armies, so you will find situations where yes this one spell/command ability is just flat out better than the one in this other army, but there will be other factors in play to help balance it.

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

 

As for the FEC the new guy will probably be six wounds with a 4 up save. One lucky shot from the Skaven hero and he is dead. End of problem. 

Also we don't know points yet. 

well there also Deathless Courtier saves but whatever

I more surprise that they made it more risky for the Skaven hero to supercharge Warp lighting if an enemy dispels it.

[TheWilddog]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

As for the FEC the new guy will probably be six wounds with a 4 up save. One lucky shot from the Skaven hero and he is dead. End of problem. 

Also we don't know points yet. 

They showed his stats in the warscroll card preview.  7 wounds, 4+ (heals 3 in the hero phase), so yea definitely in the squishy range.

Edited February 5, 2019 by TheWilddog

[Nighthaunt Noob]

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

 

The part about the strigoi:Well that‘s just wrong

For the rest: not exactly but in a way you confirmed what I said.

if you are interested in every detail they added with two clicks just pm me and I‘ll gladly explain it to you (as soon as I don‘t have to type on a cell phone)

Saying these guys look alike is like saying the megaboss looks like a brute. Of course they do because they're the same race. However nearly every element of this guy is clearly not the same as the other. Like the other commenter, I'll grant you the 1 foot is probably reused.