The Rumour Thread

[Minis by Night]

Is it just me, or is the pace of the new releases pretty intense right now? I've been around for almost 2 years now, and my impression was that GW generally likes to focus on a single IP per week for new releases (one week AoS, one week 40k, one week LotR, etc). Except that this week we've had both AoS and 40k, next week we have 2 Nightvault warbands, a Titanicus expansion plus some stuff for LotR. And then we expect to Carrion Empire to happen pretty soon, because we already know what's in the box, followed by a soonish FEC new battletome(because the discontinued the old one). Who know when and what will happen with Skavens. Plus 40k expect Genestealers and some Black Legion pretty soon, plus probably a bunch of expansion for all the side games we don't know/care about. And we're only 2 weeks into the year... Sigmar help our wallets!

So did GW go into production overdrive? Can we expect them to keep it up all year?

[Barkanaut]

18 minutes ago, Minis by Night said:

Is it just me, or is the pace of the new releases pretty intense right now? I've been around for almost 2 years now, and my impression was that GW generally likes to focus on a single IP per week for new releases (one week AoS, one week 40k, one week LotR, etc). Except that this week we've had both AoS and 40k, next week we have 2 Nightvault warbands, a Titanicus expansion plus some stuff for LotR. And then we expect to Carrion Empire to happen pretty soon, because we already know what's in the box, followed by a soonish FEC new battletome(because the discontinued the old one). Who know when and what will happen with Skavens. Plus 40k expect Genestealers and some Black Legion pretty soon, plus probably a bunch of expansion for all the side games we don't know/care about. And we're only 2 weeks into the year... Sigmar help our wallets!

So did GW go into production overdrive? Can we expect them to keep it up all year?

Who buys everything they make? That would be insane lol. Not every release appeals to everyone. Currently I feel like I’ve narrowed down my factions of choice I want to focus on. It would take a really unique army to get me to change now. Ko+idk vs bcr+iron+gg army. 

[Overread]

Actually the last two or so years are REALLY abnormal for GW. 

In the past GW would have longish periods where nothing major would happen, then you'd get a new Battletome/Codex drop with a big swathe of updated and new models. This would happen every few months and the upshot was some factions never got updated before a new rules edition came out. In fact once or twice armies missed two whole editions of rules. That could leave armies in a really bad and odd spot where some bits work and many don't. However GW also only marketed through White Dwarf. They didn't need news 3 times a week, just once a month and even then there was less buildup and very few to not hints (we relied on a lot of rumours in those days)

Since 8th edition 40K and AoS 2.0 GW has been in full overdrive at an insane level, both with their marketing being now 365 days a year (seriously this year they didn't even stop over christmas) on multiple formats; but also they've been pushing out Codex and Battletomes at a fast rate. For the first time ever they've got almost all of 40K with Codex - there's only Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cults to go before GW has to add new armies or divisions. Meanwhile AoS has lagged, but GW is clearly pushing out all the stops to get them up to date.

Behind the scenes they've also had changes, one key one (in my impression) is that with specialist games, instead of having them fit around major games; they've instead got dedicated teams set to them. Now these teams might have duel roles in other games, but the upshot is the specialist games have formal time slots and staff set to them. That means content and production. 

 

GW is basically smashing out content left and right to strengthen its position in the market. I think its also a drive to try and get many of their games to a very functional state then I expect to see GW ease off the pressure a little. Basically once armies have Battletomes they can be marketed and run on their own without any issues - I think if GW gets to that point then they can trickle out updates a little slower because most of their market will be at least content with functional viable armies and games. 

[Chikout]

While all this stuff about humanity is interesting, everyone has missed today’s big news. 

In the warhammer community article, the Darkoath warband is explicitly described as being part of the Skaven to Darkness faction rather than their own subfaction. This lends a lot of credence to the rumours about a new Slaves to Darkness book this year. This is interesting because it suggests that Chaos will become a complete grand alliance this year. With a Slaanesh book guaranteed, a skaven book highly likely and this, Chaos will not have any bookless subfactions. 

This probably also means that 2020 will be the year for a big Khorne refresh.

[Kirjava13]

Double post.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Kirjava13

[Kirjava13]

13 minutes ago, xking said:

And I can tell you a Stormcast is not a Space Marine.

It's like you deliberately try not to get the point.

[Barkanaut]

13 minutes ago, Chikout said:

While all this stuff about humanity is interesting, everyone has missed today’s big news. 

In the warhammer community article, the Darkoath warband is explicitly described as being part of the Skaven to Darkness faction rather than their own subfaction. This lends a lot of credence to the rumours about a new Slaves to Darkness book this year. This is interesting because it suggests that Chaos will become a complete grand alliance this year. With a Slaanesh book guaranteed, a skaven book highly likely and this, Chaos will not have any bookless subfactions. 

This probably also means that 2020 will be the year for a big Khorne refresh.

Seems like too much chaos to me. Sigmar’s 1e armies need lots of updates and models to bring them up to new standards. I’m not saying it won’t happen but an entire year of constant chaos seems as unlike;y as the two or three years of non-stop elf releases being proposed. Yeah we know dark oath is here but chaos is in a real good spot I just don’t see them needing to update Khorne next year. Not when there are truly bad armies like ko that might still need major updates.

[Skabnoze]

5 hours ago, xking said:

People who say Stormcast aren't Space Marines. Say that, because they are not.   Big dudes in armor is all they have in common, I read novels  and the lore.  And I can tell you a Stormcast is not a Space Marine.      I don't think anyone was arguing that Stormcast and a Freeguild are the same, We are saying Stormcast are  human, as in human experiences, human desires, human emotions, human flaws, human thinking. And all the hopes and dreams that come with that.

You are looking at it far too literally if you think they are not extremely close in regards to the core concept and themes.  If you boil the two down conceptually what you get is:

An army of super human soldiers of near Demi-god status.  They are selected from the strongest and most promising of humanity.  Created by the most advanced of genetic modification to excel in almost every combat environment against all enemies.  Psychologically trained and strengthened to be able to remain focused and resolute against unimaginable horrors.  Armed with the finest equipment that technology can provide.  The creation process is so dangerous that many who are subjected do not survive the process.  These warriors are the ultimate tip of the spear and also last-line of defense.  They are at the forefront of humanity’s survival in a dismally hostile universe.  They were once human but their creation made them simultaneously more and less human.  They forever stand apart from the rest of humanity but still stand firm as it’s ultimate protector.

The other is an army of super soldiers of near Demi-god status.  Created though the combined divine powers of two powerful gods.  They are selected from the most promising mortals of all the realms and subjected to an excruciating magical process that not all survive.  They are armed with the most powerful armor and weaponry possible using what is left over from the world-that-was.  They have trained extensively over centuries in a magical gladitorial arena created by a god.  They are the ultimate tip of the spear and last line of defense in the mortal realms.  They are at the forefront of the survival of all mortals in a dismally hostile universe.  They were all once mortal but their creation made them both more and less than the other mortal races.  They forever stand apart from the rest of the mortal races but stand firm as their ultimate protectors.

On top of that, both forces specialize in pinpoint strike shock assaults.  They are also both cursed with flaws in their creation process that can ultimately damn them.

The specifics of both forces might not be the same, but the broad thematic concepts are very much the same.  They are effectively mirror images of each other in separate universes.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.  Both are very strong themes and I think the Age of Sigmar team has done an impressive job at the obvious task of putting Space Marines into the fantasy universe in a way that makes sense and makes the world richer for their inclusion.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Skabnoze]

39 minutes ago, Chikout said:

 Darkoath warband is explicitly described as being part of the Skaven to Darkness faction

I nominate this as the best typo of 2019.  We might not even be halfway through January yet, but I don’t think anyone is going to be able to beat this.  The trophy is yours good sir!

[Skabnoze]

22 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Seems like too much chaos to me. Sigmar’s 1e armies need lots of updates and models to bring them up to new standards. I’m not saying it won’t happen but an entire year of constant chaos seems as unlike;y as the two or three years of non-stop elf releases being proposed. Yeah we know dark oath is here but chaos is in a real good spot I just don’t see them needing to update Khorne next year. Not when there are truly bad armies like ko that might still need major updates.

Khorne really only needs a book though.  They are probably the best candidate for a book-only release (and maybe a terrain piece).   A release like that can be easily dropped into an interim release cycle and GW seems to like to keep a few of those up their sleeve for all of their games.

[Aegisgrimm]

No, but they are quite large analogues of each other.

 

on another note, it was interesting to hear the tidbit about Darkoath, when before it had been wondered if they were a separate faction somehow caught between human and full-Chaos, when now it seems they are maybe replacements for Marauders?

AND they have no problem using normal ranged weapons!

Edited January 14, 2019 by Aegisgrimm

[Skabnoze]

13 minutes ago, xking said:

You are not telling me something I don't already know. My problem is people saying they are exactly the same.   Gardus the steelsoul is not a Space Marine to me.

You said that “big dudes in armor is all they have in common”.  I mentioned quite a bit that was different from that simple point.  So apparently either you were not aware of the almost mirrored core concepts or chose to ignore that despite it being central to the comparison between the two.

The Games Workshop Space Marine concept is probably the strongest IP that GW has ever created to date.   So much of their success as a company since the late 80s stands on the shoulders of the Space Marines - whether we all want to admit it or not.  

There is nothing wrong with them wanting to port some of that over to Fantasy and I would argue that the Age of Sigmar team has done a brilliant job at pulling it off.  Are the Stormcast complete blatant copies - no.  Are they effectively the same core concepts manifested in AoS - yes.  But they are now a unique enough IP that thematically fits within the universe of AoS and also helps drive the setting forward.  I think they stand on their own more as twin siblings and not as clones.  But they very much come from the same stock.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Nos]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

This will be an unpopular opinion for sure but to me their inclusion cheapens age of sigmar to a small degree given that I feel GW has included them because they want young 40k players and new players to relate to AOS and everyone knows who space marines are. Fair business play I guess but i strongly dislike them as not only the resemblance but also being the poster boys of AOS. 

Perish the thought that people not take toy soldiers seriously enough or that young people be enthused by them

[Nos]

2 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

You said that “big dudes in armor is all they have in common”.  I mentioned quite a bit that was different.  So apparently either you were not aware of the almost mirrored core concepts or chose to ignore that despite it being central to the comparison between the two.

The Games Workshop Space Marine concept is probably the strongest IP that GW has ever created to date.   So much of their success as a company since the late 80s stands on the shoulders of the Space Marines - whether we all want to admit it or not.  

There is nothing wrong with them wanting to port some of that over to Fantasy and I would argue that the Age of Sigmar team has done a brilliant job at pulling it off.  Are the Stormcast complete blatant copies - no.  Are they effectively the same core concepts manifested in AoS - yes.  But they are now a unique enough IP that thematically fits within the universe of AoS and also helps drive the setting forward.  I think they stand on their own more as twin siblings and not as clones.  But they very much come from the same stock.

Interesting political commentary in their respective designs which speak a lot of the context in which they were created as well .

Space Marines were envisioned by a very left wing set of individuals openly critical of the 80’s regimes of Neocons. The idea being that the future they foresaw would be so awful that even the good guys would be genocidal fascists fanatical to upholding the political status quo. It’s simultaneously a very tounge in cheek vision which is also nonetheless  very angry. Space Marines are by any standard utterly abhorrent in their treatment of everything. 

Its interesting with the Stormcast because Sigmar is still pretty analogous to the Emperor as an absolutist figure who is far more convinced by value expressed through form and purpose than by respect for choice and free will. But while the Stormcast are portrayed as utterly loyal to Sigmar there’s considerably less dogmatism. They have a purpose which they serve but they seem less interested in interpretating protection as genocide and the like. There are genuine good guys in the ranks of the Stormcast and there is a tragedy and tension in respect to the past lives they have lost. They are recognisably connected to humanity and fighting for a better future for it.

Space marines fight only for the Emperor and exterminate everything they believe is an impediment to that which is humanity as much as it is anything else.

As a military ideal as you say they’re very recognisably cut from the same cloth. But Stormcast are quite different in their interpretation as to what purity and duty entail. 

The strongest connection between the two I think is the pre Heresy legions of the original Primarchs. At that level they’re pretty much inseparable.

[Dirtnaps]

Look I don't want to be that guy but maybe the Stormcast = Spacemarines chat should be moved to a separate thread. It doesn't really have anything to do with rumours or predicting releases or anything.

[Skabnoze]

24 minutes ago, Nos said:

Interesting political commentary in their respective designs which speak a lot of the context in which they were created as well .

Space Marines were envisioned by a very left wing set of individuals openly critical of the 80’s regimes of Neocons. The idea being that the future they foresaw would be so awful that even the good guys would be genocidal fascists fanatical to upholding the political status quo. It’s simultaneously a very tounge in cheek vision which is also nonetheless  very angry. Space Marines are by any standard utterly abhorrent in their treatment of everything. 

Its interesting with the Stormcast because Sigmar is still pretty analogous to the Emperor as an absolutist figure who is far more convinced by value expressed through form and purpose than by respect for choice and free will. But while the Stormcast are portrayed as utterly loyal to Sigmar there’s considerably less dogmatism. They have a purpose which they serve but they seem less interested in interpretating protection as genocide and the like. There are genuine good guys in the ranks of the Stormcast and there is a tragedy and tension in respect to the past lives they have lost. They are recognisably connected to humanity and fighting for a better future for it.

Space marines fight only for the Emperor and exterminate everything they believe is an impediment to that which is humanity as much as it is anything else.

As a military ideal as you say they’re very recognisably cut from the same cloth. But Stormcast are quite different in their interpretation as to what purity and duty entail. 

The strongest connection between the two I think is the pre Heresy legions of the original Primarchs. At that level they’re pretty much inseparable.

Interesting line of thought.  I don’t quite agree that the original devs (Rick Priestly) were being overly political (at least not purposefully) rather than following their fictional influences, but it is an interesting conversation starter.

That said, you should pull that into its own post if you want to continue this line of conversation.  I have probably participated too much in straying the rumor thread far off topic already.  I’d be happy to discuss this in another thread though.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, xking said:

My is point is  stormcast are  human, More then a Chaos warrior or Space Marine.

Having read a mountain of books surrounding each of the three, I feel compelled to point out;

While you can compare their humanity, Stormcast are the least human out of the three of them, not the most. This has everything to do with their theme, and loss of personality/humanity upon dying. Over time, they are slowly becoming something distinctly -other-, almost alien in their perspectives at the most extreme. Some of them start out quite human, but that is quickly blunted upon their first reforging.

Not a bad thing, mind you, but important to note as it puts them firmly behind the other two mentioned, or at least Space Marines. Might draw some parallels between Stormcast and Chaos Warriors, actually, since they both inevitably lose parts of their humanity over time.

 

Food for thought

[Kurrilino]

This is exactly what happens if nobody is in charge to keep the AOS rumour a AOS rumour thread.

Now we even discuss Space Marine related lore.

Before everone yells back seat mod, let me know what other topics you guys are interested in.

Sports, politics, cruises, real estate market ?

I will chip in whatever topics we chose.

 

[Mayple]

@Kurrilino

Got any rumours for us?

[Killamike]

Should rename to general discussion thread as that's basically what this is and start a new rumours thread. 

[Sleboda]

9 hours ago, Barkanaut said:

Who buys everything they make?

I used to.

Now I get about 85% of it. I've resisted the kill team expansions (rt, commanders) and black fortress, but that's about it.

Heck, I get two of each Underworlds warband and just ordered 3 Mangler Squigs, so sometimes it's multiples.

I have issues.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Sleboda

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Mayple said:

While you can compare their humanity, Stormcast are the least human out of the three of them, not the most

I agree. Half way through Soul Wars, the novel, and (avoiding spoilers) if you claim a stormcast is biologically human, then you have to say the same of the individual Nagash and Arkhan, um, "recruit" early on.

These beings are broken down and reconstituted as a fully new creature.

They are not human.

[robinlvalentine]

11 hours ago, JPjr said:

Just posted this in the Underworlds forum but will have relevance here too...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/13/next-weeks-pre-orders-underworlds-titans-and-middle-earth/

Darkoath and Troggoth warbands up for pre-order next week

Interesting the way they describe Mollog - I think a lot of people had assumed he was some kind of Troggoth shaman, but this just describes him like a straightforward warrior. Maybe not every warband this expansion has magic? 

[Envyus]

4 hours ago, Nos said:

Interesting political commentary in their respective designs which speak a lot of the context in which they were created as well .

Space Marines were envisioned by a very left wing set of individuals openly critical of the 80’s regimes of Neocons. The idea being that the future they foresaw would be so awful that even the good guys would be genocidal fascists fanatical to upholding the political status quo. It’s simultaneously a very tounge in cheek vision which is also nonetheless  very angry. Space Marines are by any standard utterly abhorrent in their treatment of everything. 

Its interesting with the Stormcast because Sigmar is still pretty analogous to the Emperor as an absolutist figure who is far more convinced by value expressed through form and purpose than by respect for choice and free will. But while the Stormcast are portrayed as utterly loyal to Sigmar there’s considerably less dogmatism. They have a purpose which they serve but they seem less interested in interpretating protection as genocide and the like. There are genuine good guys in the ranks of the Stormcast and there is a tragedy and tension in respect to the past lives they have lost. They are recognisably connected to humanity and fighting for a better future for it.

Space marines fight only for the Emperor and exterminate everything they believe is an impediment to that which is humanity as much as it is anything else.

As a military ideal as you say they’re very recognisably cut from the same cloth. But Stormcast are quite different in their interpretation as to what purity and duty entail. 

The strongest connection between the two I think is the pre Heresy legions of the original Primarchs. At that level they’re pretty much inseparable.

Note quite. There are actually quite  a bit of variance in the Space Marine between the groups of them and Heroes can be found among them.  

The Stormcast likewise have variance, some are just as dogmatic and ruthless as the worst Space Marine chapters. The Knights Excelsior for example are really no better than what they fight, Killing  people just for witnessing their battles, being sick or defending the sick. A short story showed one of their leaders stating he was willing to torture and burn every resident of a town to discover the vampire within. 

[Dirtnaps]

1 hour ago, robinlvalentine said:

Interesting the way they describe Mollog - I think a lot of people had assumed he was some kind of Troggoth shaman, but this just describes him like a straightforward warrior. Maybe not every warband this expansion has magic? 

It certainly seems that way, I honestly thought Mollog was going to be a wizard but I'm finding how they've made him and the warband much more interesting from what's been hinted at so far. I'm also really interested to see how he actually does in AoS proper.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Dirtnaps