The Rumour Thread

[GeneralZero]

I'm tempted by DoK but I absolutely don't know how it is competitive. Is one box enough? is 2 boxes a good start (by eventually reselling some parts? and wich?)?

Same question goes with slaves of darkness.

For both, I have NOTHING. so, it'll be a fresh start (BTW, my main are SCE: got everything, Death LON & NH full armies )

 

[Gecktron]

25 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I'm tempted by DoK but I absolutely don't know how it is competitive. Is one box enough? is 2 boxes a good start (by eventually reselling some parts? and wich?)?

Same question goes with slaves of darkness.

For both, I have NOTHING. so, it'll be a fresh start (BTW, my main are SCE: got everything, Death LON & NH full armies )

 

Only speaking for Daughter of Khaine here. One Battleforce box is a good way to start. You get all possible Heroes (besides Morathi) and every plastic kit besides the Doomfire Warlocks at least once. 

You can't go wrong with Daughters of Khaine competitive wise. Sure, 3x30 Witch Aelfs plus Hag Queens is really good right now but a snake heavy builds or mixed lists are still pretty strong. 

One Battleforce Box would make for a good 1000p list:

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
Hag Queen (60)

Battleline
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
5 x Blood Sisters (140)

Units
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)

Total: 950 / 1000

[GeneralZero]

Do you think 2 boxes is better to start?

[Carnith]

A little bit annoyed it's 3 order boxes and one chaos box. I can understand no death cause of the legion one last year, but no goblin based one? Or ogre? A different style of ironjawz?

[RexHavoc]

Ogre had one before, I believe. 

Grots would a waste. There is very little they could include, moonclan, fantatics, giants as the plastics are either lacking, we still have one of the oldest citadel models still available in the grot range and far too many resin and metal items. 

We might see a moonclan one next year.

Surprised we didn't get a nurgle one, that would have been good value. 

[Gecktron]

6 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Do you think 2 boxes is better to start?

2 Cauldron sets are useful (build one as a Shrine and the other as Cauldron), 10 Blood Sisters are really strong as well. The only problem is that you will have 4 units of Khinerai but only 2 units of Witch Aelfs. If you want to go all in I would recommend trying to sell or trade 2 units of Khinerai against more basic troops so you can fill your battle line requirements. 

 

[Alexonian]

31 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

If you want to go all in I would recommend trying to sell or trade 2 units of Khinerai against more basic troops so you can fill your battle line requirements.  

 

that's exactly what I would do,  but as they teased moonclan I'm saving my money instead

[cash4u]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

What exactly is in the STD box chaps? Can’t see the image very well. 

Hard for me to make out as well but I think I can see 10 Chaos Knights, a Chaos Lord on Manticore, a Chaos Warshrine, a Chaos Warriors Regiment and a Chaos Chariot? So around $250 worth, if that's the case.

[Kaleb Daark]

16 hours ago, Nos said:

Those you mention were already established in Warhammer either as essentially mythic beings of legend operating outwith time, or undead. Grimgor or Skarsnik were neither although I think you can argue that Grimgor sort of ascended to that position maybe. 

Looking at the novellas that are linked several posts back, two stuck out for me:

WarQueen

"It's a look at the internecine warfare of the Dark Gods' followers, and a particular focus on the Darkoath tribes who make up a huge part of the forces of Chaos."

"THE STORY
In the scarred wastelands to the south of the Great Parch, the Darkoath Tribes dominate through ritual and slaughter. Devoted to Tzeentch, the Chaos God of Change, their wild savagery has been transformed into something far greater and more potent. For centuries, the tribes have ruled the Arad Plains, unbeaten and untamed, even as kingdoms rose and fell around them. But now, with the Blood God’s legions massing at their borders, Darkoath Warqueen, Vedra the Sworn, finds treachery and deceit at the heart of her own army. Years of dark service to Tzeentch have left her warriors obsessed with strange creeds and wayward cults. As she battles to forge a nation, Vedra must put her own faith to the test, and learn the true nature of sacrifice and power. 

Written by Darius Hinks"

 

and

 

The Bone Desert

"Gotrek's back in prose, in the first follow-up to the audio drama Realmslayer. New adventures with a new companion – but perhaps an old enemy – await the Slayer!"

"THE STORY
The world that Gotrek Gurnisson knew is long dead, alongside every soul the legendary monster slayer once cared for. Adrift in this curious new age, the duardin scours the treacherous Bone Desert in search of the axe he inherited from the God Grimnir, which too has been lost to the annals of time. When a series of assassination attempts strike, Gotrek and his aelf companion Maleneth soon learn that it is not only the wasteland’s ravenous beasts and sinking sands that hunger for their flesh. The heroic duardin is certain these highly calculated and creative attacks are the work of his infamous nemesis – the skaven, Thanquol. But is all as it seems?

Written by Robbie MacNiven"

 

I can see me getting the warqueen just to see if I can tease out any lore on the new Darkoath barbarians.

[Kurrilino]

5 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

My speculation was that Dark Oath might function like another mark of the gods essentially, which is sort of how it works now. You can't mark the Chief or Queen, so if you are running them in God allegiance they need to be allies.  So if you want a Dark Oath Army, you start with StD base, and season with Dark Oath. That was my guess anyhow, and means that they don't give the God armies any more options.

 

Also the Godsworn Warband is one of the StD battalions.

Sounds interesting.

But i don't see how Archaeon is fiting in here.

I guess it is the opposite. Everchosen and StD will somehow mixed together and Dar Oath will be the gap filler

[Carnelian]

Everchosen plus Darkoath = take all my money 

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Looking at the novellas that are linked several posts back, two stuck out for me:

WarQueen

"It's a look at the internecine warfare of the Dark Gods' followers, and a particular focus on the Darkoath tribes who make up a huge part of the forces of Chaos."

"THE STORY
In the scarred wastelands to the south of the Great Parch, the Darkoath Tribes dominate through ritual and slaughter. Devoted to Tzeentch, the Chaos God of Change, their wild savagery has been transformed into something far greater and more potent. For centuries, the tribes have ruled the Arad Plains, unbeaten and untamed, even as kingdoms rose and fell around them. But now, with the Blood God’s legions massing at their borders, Darkoath Warqueen, Vedra the Sworn, finds treachery and deceit at the heart of her own army. Years of dark service to Tzeentch have left her warriors obsessed with strange creeds and wayward cults. As she battles to forge a nation, Vedra must put her own faith to the test, and learn the true nature of sacrifice and power. 

Written by Darius Hinks"

 

and

 

The Bone Desert

"Gotrek's back in prose, in the first follow-up to the audio drama Realmslayer. New adventures with a new companion – but perhaps an old enemy – await the Slayer!"

"THE STORY
The world that Gotrek Gurnisson knew is long dead, alongside every soul the legendary monster slayer once cared for. Adrift in this curious new age, the duardin scours the treacherous Bone Desert in search of the axe he inherited from the God Grimnir, which too has been lost to the annals of time. When a series of assassination attempts strike, Gotrek and his aelf companion Maleneth soon learn that it is not only the wasteland’s ravenous beasts and sinking sands that hunger for their flesh. The heroic duardin is certain these highly calculated and creative attacks are the work of his infamous nemesis – the skaven, Thanquol. But is all as it seems?

Written by Robbie MacNiven"

 

I can see me getting the warqueen just to see if I can tease out any lore on the new Darkoath barbarians.

Wait Thanquol is finally showing himself????

[Overread]

3 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Do you think 2 boxes is better to start?

2 Boxes would be a very solid start and I wouldn't even trade away the Khinari. They are a surgical unit (in either form) rather than a rank and file type unit, however they are fantastic models and very tough for what they do. Two boxed sets would easily give you 20 Khinari that you can use in a variety of ways from single 5 unit blocks to two 10 unit blocks or even a single powerful 20. 

If I were getting started with DoK right now I'd happily pick up two of those boxed sets without question, there's no waste in them at all and a solid core to build from. The only thing you "might" consider is one box and then 3 boxes of regular Witch Aelves, however with the saving in the boxed set and the lack of any "waste" I'd just go for several of them as long term there's nothing wasted at all. 

[GeneralZero]

Are the DoK fast? I hate having only foot units

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Are the DoK fast? I hate having only foot units

They are.

[swarmofseals]

5 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Are the DoK fast? I hate having only foot units

I depends on what your frame of reference is. The heroes, Witch Aelves, Sisters of Slaughter and Cauldrons are all pretty quick for foot units with a move of 6". The WA and SoS can also run and charge, and the whole faction gets to reroll 1's to run on turn 1 and additionally reroll 1's to charge on turn 2 on. Snakes are a bit faster at 8". Transformed Morathi is very fast.

Then you've got the Khinerai and Doomfire Warlocks, which are both also very fast. Khinerai can drop in, have HUGE movement and even have an additional movement related ability. The problem is that neither of these units can really hold up in melee, so they are much more tactical scalpels rather than part of a real Alpha Strike.

So overall compared to a conventional army, DoK is a above average for speed on the main battle line with supporting units that are extremely fast. 

Compared to the tournament metagame though, DoK is actually quite slow. When you compare to the plethora of true alpha strike builds like Dreadwood Wargrove, Gavriel Stormcast, Eel Spam, Dragonlord Host etc, DoK is at least one turn behind. 

[Overread]

Daughters of Khaine are fast - their entire army is basically built around the concept of the alpha strike. That is them charging into battle and getting the first round of damage/attacks on the enemy. Even their ranged units are half ranged half close combat and would be just as happy in either role; they are closer to skirmishers that will charge forward whilst firing and then get stuck into the close combat too.

They are a bit more fragile, though they have some tanky options/builds. By and large they are not like, say, Stormcast who can weather loads of attacks and be more defensive. Daughters rush forward and bring the battle right to the enemy. 

Khinari are quite fragile, however they deploy from off the table and are ideal for grabbing an ignored objective late game; contesting a weakly held one and for ganging up on isolated heroes/archers/siege weapons or for supporting your other units by rear/flank attacking the enemy. 

 

When you think of daughters think of a glass-dagger - its close combat focused and deadly sharp, but its going to shatter if you use it wrong. 

[Hankster]

22 hours ago, Overread said:

https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/novella-series-1

 

There's full details of each book there. You can get them one by one in digital or paperback for £3 or you can get the whole set (again either in digital or paperback) for £27, which means if you get the whole set you get one book for free. They are basically novellas, so a hundred or so pages long ish each (that's very rough some are longer, some shorter); so about 1/3rdish the length of a regular novel. There are also excerpts on their respective pages on the website too. 

 

I'm still debating between getting them in digital or paperback format - kind of wish GW put more art into their standard books even one or two bits on the internals helps make a story (esp a short one) in my view - esp as they've already got huge amounts of visual material from their models to their artwork. Plus I always think it makes a book worth owning when its got that extra visual touch; not just text (esp today when pure text books are good on ereaders) 

Sad to see that Destruction doesn't seem to figure at all. ?

Hopefully, they are saving it all for a big year of Destruction released and narrative development in 2019. ?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Are the DoK fast? I hate having only foot units

Witch Elves can run and charge.

[Overread]

Destruction is in an iffy spot because for years many of its factions were the mindless boogymen of the classic fantasy world - ergo the generic evil. AoS has Chaos take that position so Destruction is sort of in an odd spot; however its ripe for them being able to flesh them out with far more lore and stories tht focus around them and showing another side to make of the ork clans and such. 

 

 

Also I should note in my post above about Daughters of Khaine - they do rush forward to bring the fight to the enemy, but they don't rush forward blind. You have to balance the need to get into combat fast with the need to get the charge not be charged; so there can be some crafty dancing and movement planning. they are certainly not a mindless army to use 

[Waiyuren]

11 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

Sounds interesting.

But i don't see how Archaeon is fiting in here.

I guess it is the opposite. Everchosen and StD will somehow mixed together and Dar Oath will be the gap filler

Mostly speculation ahead, skip past if that's not your thing.

In the old lore back when I last played (7th) iirc, the tribes of barbarians in the north were the most common warriors of the chaos forces. A chosen few that rose above the rabble were gifted chaos armour by the lords or daemon princes that ruled the tribe, which would fuse shut after donning it, but enhance the wearer's might considerably, and natural lifespan indefinitely. The best of those would rise further still, becoming chosen, then champions, lords, and finally princes. Archaon is perpetually at the lord stage, but obviously far more powerful being the chosen mortal champion of "Chaos Undivided".

I really don't see them changing that lore too much,  honestly; the split between everchosen and slaves was the weird decision in my opinion, not the likely recombination of the two.

What I am personally interested to find out, is why Marakarr Blood-Sky isn't in full plate; she's supposedly part if Archaon's inner circle, but not necessarily one of his lieutenants. In fact she appears to be walking the path of the everchosen herself by uniting the tribes, just as Diederick Kastner once did. ?

Dang, I accidentally psyched myself up... When the Darkoath/Godsworn battletome comes out, it'll be the first one I've bothered to actually read. ?

[Captain Marius]

The choice of factions for the battalions are a bit underwhelming, but this may be a blessing in disguise as i will definitely be picking up wrath n rapture and those terrain bundles look too good to pass up...! I still regret not getting the ironjaws and sigmarine boxes from 2 years ago, they were ludicrously good!

[Nos]

11 hours ago, Overread said:

Destruction is in an iffy spot because for years many of its factions were the mindless boogymen of the classic fantasy world - ergo the generic evil. AoS has Chaos take that position so Destruction is sort of in an odd spot; however its ripe for them being able to flesh them out with far more lore and stories tht focus around them and showing another side to make of the ork clans and such. 

 

 

Also I should note in my post above about Daughters of Khaine - they do rush forward to bring the fight to the enemy, but they don't rush forward blind. You have to balance the need to get into combat fast with the need to get the charge not be charged; so there can be some crafty dancing and movement planning. they are certainly not a mindless army to use 

Chaos has always been the Bogeyman in Warhammer since Realm of Chaos, i.e most of its lifespan . It's lurking everywhere. Arguably it's *the* biggest thing that establishes GW's fiction as something noteworthy. The fact that the real badness does not lie in the monsters outside but the monsters within, and that it is entropy and breakdown that holds the most threat to humanity, not monsters. Chaos hasn't suddenly become the big bad in AOS, it's been the worst and scariest evil in Warhammer for decades. 

Destruction by contrast has always been lacking in lore really, and instead their history and fiction centred around personalities and wars. Why? Because living to fight and trash stuff is a boring motivation to read about. The most interesting insight into orcs and goblins always came from the people they were antagonising because you can at least relate to how that might feel. On the other hand it's the fact that GW double down on the bashiness of orcs/orks that makes them such a charismatic faction. Yeah they just bash stuff, so wot? Thatz wot they does bezt. Why complicate things?

What both the above real is why GW has been successful for so long, which is true factional diversity.  

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Nos said:

Chaos has always been the Bogeyman in Warhammer since Realm of Chaos, i.e most of its lifespan . It's lurking everywhere. Arguably it's *the* biggest thing that establishes GW's fiction as something noteworthy. The fact that the real badness does not lie in the monsters outside but the monsters within, and that it is entropy and breakdown that holds the most threat to humanity, not monsters. Chaos hasn't suddenly become the big bad in AOS, it's been the worst and scariest evil in Warhammer for decades. 

Lore wise yes, definitely.

on the table it feels a bit odd.

right now for some Unknown reason  the most evil army mostly beeing played at any tournaments seems to be Dok and Deepkins.

altough nurlge is still a thing and can be seen beeing played a lot, their army is a far bit more gifting and giving (lorewise)

and Dok deepkins we’ll love to kill anything in their way (both game and lorewise).

so if I would have the choice of beeing slaughtered, loosing my soul, and afterwards beeing reused in some kind of soup so that the witch elves may climb the extasie of beeing in a terrible frenzie, I’d rather be sickened by Nurgle.

[AshCrow]

10 hours ago, Waiyuren said:

Mostly speculation ahead, skip past if that's not your thing.

In the old lore back when I last played (7th) iirc, the tribes of barbarians in the north were the most common warriors of the chaos forces. A chosen few that rose above the rabble were gifted chaos armour by the lords or daemon princes that ruled the tribe, which would fuse shut after donning it, but enhance the wearer's might considerably, and natural lifespan indefinitely. The best of those would rise further still, becoming chosen, then champions, lords, and finally princes. Archaon is perpetually at the lord stage, but obviously far more powerful being the chosen mortal champion of "Chaos Undivided".

I really don't see them changing that lore too much,  honestly; the split between everchosen and slaves was the weird decision in my opinion, not the likely recombination of the two.

What I am personally interested to find out, is why Marakarr Blood-Sky isn't in full plate; she's supposedly part if Archaon's inner circle, but not necessarily one of his lieutenants. In fact she appears to be walking the path of the everchosen herself by uniting the tribes, just as Diederick Kastner once did. ?

Dang, I accidentally psyched myself up... When the Darkoath/Godsworn battletome comes out, it'll be the first one I've bothered to actually read. ?

My prediction is that the "Godsworn Legions" (or however they name it) battletome will merge Slaves to Darkness, Everchosen, Daemons of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos and Chaos Gargants; include the mortal and daemon magic lores that are in Disciples of Tzeentch, Maggotkin of Nurgle and Slaanesh when it gets it's own; same with the artefacts; new allegiance abilities and 3 endless spells.  Then some kind of points for summoning (you could summon daemons from every god), new marauder kit, new chaos warrior/chosen kit, new exalted hero sculpt, maybe a new named character and maybe if the gods want it, a plastic chaos mammoth as a centerpiece (or Forgeworld starts selling it again).