Skaven from Forgeworld - an open clan discussion

[Overread]

So many of us have an eye or two on models from Forgeworld to add to our various Skaven Clans and I figured it would be good to have a general chat about them as models - both to buy, make and build as well as to field and use on the tabletop in light of the new Battletome. 

First note that at the time of writing this post the Warscrolls on the FW website are NOT updated, however those listed in the mobile app are updated. This mostly affects a few keywords (mostly just adding Skaventide) however interestingly to points arise:

1) The Warpgnaw Verminlord has a totally new Warscroll with several key changes which include:
a) It has an increase to 12 wounds
b) It's prehensile tail has a maximum of 4 attacks (scaling down with wounds taken)
c) Loses "Cloak of Splintered Unreality" but gains "protection of Horned Rat" which is better since now it gets the 5+ save on all wound and mortal wounds allocated to the model (splintered reality only affected ranged attacks)
d) Gained Terrifying ability (-1 to bravery for enemy units within 3 inches)
e) It's Realm Guide ability is totally changed and now pairs with Gnawholes. The model now can be placed to one side during deployment (off table) and set as a reserve unit. It may enter during the movement phase wholly within 6 inches of any Gnawhole on the table and more than 9 inches from the enemy. Very importantly this ability also counts as that models move for the turn. 

2) The Brood Horror is again listed as a separate unit (ergo without a Clawlord); although far as I can tell FW still only sells the model with a rider (and from some googling it seems the saddle is moulded to the core of the body of the model).

 

Thoughts:

Warpgnaw Verminlord - already many have lamented the change in this models ability since now it can no longer pop up anywhere on the table and it can no longer bring one unit with it onto the battlefield. It's old ability was akin to a very expensive Warpgrinder in giving it free choice (within limits of range to the enemy) and in being able to bring one troop unit along with it. Losing both those abilities and being paid to the terrain features does limit the models versatility quite considerably; however it is still a powerhouse on its own. Plus its important to note that its ability would let you move two units (the Verminlord and one other) through the gnawhole network in one turn since its a Verminlord ability not the Gnawholes own ability triggering. This might be its saving grace because it means you can move two units at a time in one turn, giving the emerging units the potential to support each other or at least split your opponents targeting choice if they appear from the same one. 

The other problems the Warpgnaw suffers from are that its screech attack requires you to roll a D6 and beat the wounds characteristic of the target model. This is strange for an ability that can only target one model because the characteristic isn't the current number of wounds a model has (at least that is my interpretation). So you can't use it to finish off a high wound model that has been reduced in wounds. You can only hit something with 6 wounds or less and in honest practical terms you're unlikely to want to be rolling for more than a 3 or 4 most times. It will let you kill something outright so you can use it to snipe a lower wound character or buff unit or even be sneaky and if an opponent has strung out a unit of troops you could snipe one in the middle to force the unit to fail a unit coherency test (since the attacker picks the target model not the attacked player). So whilst its not going to hurt high wound models it does have a lot of versatility as a sniping ability. 

Finally it has no command ability, which sets it behind the other Verminlords. 

Sadly as its stand the Warpgnaw has been given a balance up in terms of its regular stats in line with the other Verminlords; but its overall special abilities and attacks - those things that make it stand out - are quite honestly lacking. It's a shame that such a unique model has been left appearing so much weaker than the others, though one can hope that GW might address this in the future. Certainly its odd that it has no command ability

 

Wolfrats - At 100 points for 5 these are expensive rats, but they come with 3 hit 3 wound attacks with -1 to rend on 2 attacks each. So they pack rather a nasty bite! They are essentially an elite unit within an army that focuses more on swarms and hoards than elite units. Screened carefully and kept out of harms way and perhaps taken in two units of 5 or a block of 10 they, to my eye, have great potential as a fast cavalry style unit. Their biggest problem is a bravery of 4, though once they are within 3 inches of the enemy they don't have to take battleshock tests. These units want to be in the thick of combat and no-where else. A smart opponent might learn to shoot at them to drive them off; but otherwise they are a powerful unit.

 

Claw Lord on Brood Horror - This is a clawlord on a Broodhorror. It's basically a Brood horror with the clawlords weapon attack and bravery aura (for verminus clan only) and the Gnash-Gnaw command ability of the Clawlord. All for a lot less in points than taking both on their own (although this unit still only has 8 wounds like the broodhorror). Overall its a powerful, impressive model that can strike fear into the enemy. It moves 2 inches faster than the clawlord alone, a respectable but not earth shattering movement bonus. The only real downside to taking this instead of the two separate models is that with two separate models the clawlord has 5 wounds on top. Considering both have the same armour save of 4+ its a little odd to me that they didn't give the model a little boost in wounds - then again that's likely offset by the 40 point price reduction (260 for clawlord and brood horror separate - 220 for clawlord mounted on the brood horror). Also don't forget it can regenerate D3 of those wounds per turn!

 

Brood Horror alone - a powerful meaty unit that gives a cheaper 160 point behemoth model to the army. Whilst not as powerful as the abomination it is cheaper and does have a decent regeneration mechanic, which forces the opponent to pay attention to it; ignoring it at their own peril.

 

 

 

Overall. My impression is that overall many of the FW models are actually potentially coming in underpowered compared to their Battletome counterparts. I also note that a lot of this isn't in the units core stats, but more in the creative side of abilities that the models bring to the table. Skaven have a lot of abilities now and many of their units are quite variable and versatile whilst also having quite a complex side to them - many of the FW models are still mostly the same as they were in the previous Battletome with only modest if any real changes to them since the new Tome's release. To my eye it shows that they potentially need a second pass of rules adjustments to bring them in-line with the rest of the army. To make them interesting and attractive choices to buy (in points and money) and good justification to put them on the table, without making them broken.

Time might well that some are stronger than one thinks; the Verminlord might be stronger or a much needed ally when units pop out of gnawholes; meanwhile the Brood horror might well show that its far more durable and powerful in practice than one might expect. Wolfrats I think are quite fine where they are - basically a hard hitting cavalry type unit and I'd not expect to see changes to them. 

 

 

As Models

 I don't own any of the FW models thus far, however a few questions/thoughts

1) Wolfrats have long tails - in resin these might be at a high risk of being fragile due to their length. Being tails any bends won't be an issue, but they might require being a little bit more careful around. Then again a lot of modern GW sculpts are getting more fragile like that so its likely not out of the realms of regular modern armies

2) I note above that FW only sells the mounted broodhorror and that I believe the saddle is moulded to the body. I'd be grateful if any  could confirm if this is the case or not.

[Kirjava13]

The nerf to the Warpgnaw made me feel like GW specifically only went after the models in my collection.  

His sniping ability is good for taking out key models like musicians or banner bearers, but that blow to his utility with the change to his Cracks In Reality ability is a killer, especially as his points haven't changed. I hope he gets a bit of a reduction in GHB19 or it'll be hard to find space for him.

Nothing to say regarding the rest, but the Clawlord on Broodhorror has the bonus of a boost to the range of his command ability. I guess that ain't nothing? If the Clawpack battalion let you use models with the keyword CLAWLORD then it might be a way to make it worthwhile, but alas...

[Overread]

Honestly I think they changed Warpgnaw purely for fluffy reasons to tie him to the new terrain and didn't really think much else on him besides updating the basic Verminlord abilities to their standard setup. That explains why he seems lackluster and also why he lacks a command ability. 

 

Honestly I don't mind that its tied to the terrain, its a neat idea; but what it needs is something extra. Being able to move once deployed; being able to take another unit with him that can also move; etc... Ergo something that makes it have that little bit extra that makes it as fearsome as model as the others of its kind. 

 

[bonzai]

I have a clawlord on a broodhorror and he has always been well worth the points. The biggest change, IMHO, is that he now has the individual clawlord keyword. This lets him benefit from all of the benefits from the book and be taken in the battalion. Before he couldn't. This is huge. As a verminus player, he was usually my warlord, as with his regen he is closer to a 12 wound model rather than 8, which was very important before los and hero sniping was rampant. He also packs a very decent punch which can be buffed further with our new wargear.

The Warpgnaw was always lack luster. Being able to teleport a unit around was tempting, but it was expensive for an otherwise underwhelming rule set. Especially compared to the other vermin lords. Now they up his stat line, but take away the only thing that made him interesting. I was a pass before, and I still am. Which is a shame, as it is a cool model.

Wolf rats are ok. They are fast glass cannon units, and fit a nice niche in the army as it lacks any sort of calvary.

[Overread]

@bonzai nice to hear your thoughts and great to hear about your results with the Clawlord atop Brood horror - got any photos of your model? And how did you find it as a mode to assemble, paint and work with 

[bonzai]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

@bonzai nice to hear your thoughts and great to hear about your results with the Clawlord atop Brood horror - got any photos of your model? And how did you find it as a mode to assemble, paint and work with 

No photos off hand. Assembly is easy. Only problem is the banner is easy to snap, and the weapon hand kept comming off. I had to pin both. It is a gorgeous model, (in the way that nurgle units can be said to be gorgeous), and is fun to paint. 

Also, the saddle is part of the brood horror. So if you run it as just a brood horror, it will have it on it and look riderless. Frankly, for 60 points more I would rather get the mounted rider or a hell pit.

[Overread]

So I got a set of wolfrats from FW - I'll do some photos and a proper write up later - however my gods these are both pretty and big! Easily double the size of a gryph-hound and the detail on them is really great! You can see the little indentions of whisker marks on their muzzles and in a pleasing twist for a western model they are complete with genitalia and *******. 

They are interesting models too as they come in four parts - head (of which there are 5 unique types to pick and are universal fit); forebody and rear body (which are marked with a letter on the sprue and fit specifically to a corresponding mark) and tail (of which there are 5 unique types  which can, again, fit to any body). Some also feature a leg to be attached as well. 

There's 3 body types and with the head and tail types that's quite a nice variety for the set. The only thing I'd be a bit sad on is that the tails are firm resin - I'd have ilked to have seen them do them with a wire rod wrapped with rubbery resin. I've seen this done on several models (though it is rare) and they achieve good quality detail and the wire makes them not just pose-able, but also a bit more resistant to damage. That said I'd imagine any flex is a pain for flaking off paint once they are painted; plus they are a bit of a pain to clean as the rubbery material gives under a blade rather than resists perfectly. 

 

Overall I'm really pleased with these models! REALLY pleased. I can well see myself getting a few more sets! The only downside is that they are 100 points for 5; a rather expensive elite unit for skaven. So just putting down 10 is already a chunky 200 points; 20 would be a hefty 400! 

 

* Yes I'm aware that that seems an odd thing to mention specifically, but its something I've noticed that a lot of models of animals are made with high detail all over and then a general blank grey zone as if the sculptor is embarrassed or discouraged from making anything between legs or under tails. It's a strange carryover- I think from modelling humans where, for the most part, such details are typically covered up.