The future of Skaven reloaded: More-more Great Clans?

[Rogue Explorator]

So, a while back we a had a discussion/speculation topic on the future of Skaven.

While the recent release of the combined Battletome for them, it does not look like we can expect any new developements on that front anytime soon, the Tome does drop some pretty juicy hints for one possible direction the faction could take in the future:

 

To be specific, Skavendom in the Mortal Realms started with twelve Great Clans (with the Masterclan, equal in power but not technically a Great Clan, the unofficial thirteenth, I guess) of which the well known Clans Verminus, Pestilens, Skryre, Moulder and Eshin are merely the five only known Great Clans to survive to the Age of Sigmar.

This means that GW has given itself an opening to develope entirely new aspects for the Skaventide (releasing a rediscovered or newly risen Great Clan like they'd release a new Chamber for Stormcast) or even new Skaven factions almost completely disconected from Skaventide (as Idoneth and Kharadron have developed so divergent from their origins to be a force and culture by themselves).

 

Bringing back the disappeared Great Clans like this would have plenty of precedent.

For one specific to AoS, there are the Kharadron. An example of a notable disappearance, that of the Dawrven Kingdoms of Chamon, being introduced specifically to bring in a new faction of Duradin soon after. Specific to Skaven are Pestilens and Eshin, who both in WHFB had the background of having completely disappeared from Skaven culture only to reappear evolved into the subfactions we all know and love to hate (or hate to love?) at a pivotal point in Skaven history.

 

With this in mind, there are three (making eigth out of twelve of the original known by name) of the Great Clans whom I could find mentioned in the BT:

 

-The first are the Clans Tichritt, eradicated all the way back in the Age of Myth when they got overconfident and took on Sigmar and his Allies head on by themselves. Their speciality is mentioned to have been "chronomatic weapons". Being "purged from existence" sounds like a pretty definite end, but then again they where time-manipulators, so could hve survived via time travel. This also seems to be a reference to 40ks Hrud, who started out as the illustration of a 40k not-Skaven and are also known for their time-shenanigans.

 

-Second are the Clans Ikk, who where whiped out by one of the Pestilens Great Plagues during the Skavens Great Civil War in the Age of Chaos. They where the most powerful Great Clans  besides Verminus  at the time and those two Clans also started the civil war. Their specialty is mentioned to be "animal ferocity" and they are also called "feral". Their end seems pretty definite. They also sound like they would really have stepped on the toes of Verminus and Moulder and AoS already has a lot of feral factions already.

 

-Last and possibly most interesting are the Clans Shrykt. They seem to have been the only Great Clan besides the well known five to have survived until the end of the Great Civil War. Instead of having been eradicated, they are mentioned to have just all disappeared purposely into a massive Gnawhole in Aqshy, never to be heard from again, some time late in the Age of Chaos. Add that the Great Horned Rat and Skaven alone had knowledge of Sigmars plans for the Stormcast, and the plot thickens.

Their speciality is not mentions, the story right before that of their disappearance mentions Screech Verminking killing six Lords of decay to make a point, with the context, including five names and titles matching the known five Great Clans, implying one from each of the six Great Clans was slain. This leaves one Lieweaver Yrkrit as the likely Lord of Decay from Clan Shrykt. Since Eshin was the Clan best at espionage even before the disappearance of the Shrykt, that makes them seem like some manner of propagandist Great Clan, not exactly the nukleus of a fearsome army. They might be a red hering or maybe the title is non-indicative of their once (or future!) specialty. Whatever they did, they must have been pretty good at it to suvive for so long. Or maybe its something silly, like they now produce the Hammerhall Herald.

 

 

So, anyway, that concludes my little presentation of my findings. What are all your thoughts on this?

[Dead Scribe]

I think that would be great for them to expand like that.  So long as they finish the other factions that have no books first.

[JPjr]

I can't see them adding more clans to the main game, at least in the near/mid future. There's already a ridonkulous amount of factions in this game as it is, and with the existing clans there's already lots of options for mouseketeers so I imagine anything new will be focused elsewhere. Of course what this does do is allow space for people to go wild with their imaginations, get busy modelling and create their own thing.

If they were to introduce new canonical clans I'd imagine it would be more likely in spinoff games where they can be used to really push a unique theme, so the obvious one would be something like 'Clan Scurvy' reappearing in a reboot of Man'o'War or an aerial based clan if they came out with a game that pushed that angle (obviously that would be led by renowned Skaven flying machine pioneers, The Rat Brothers).

[Forrix]

Definitely see this giving them the design space to do so. I think it is likely we will see an updated skaven line in the future (lots of old kits to retire). A new Great Clan coming in could provide a wealth of fresh kits. That said, yeah it will probably be a few years. I think we had this release now because they realized the demand for a coherent skaven army and that  a rework of models was a few years off still.

[MKGipson]

The book did mention Skaven with airship technology captured from the Kharadron and Skavenly re-engineered.  Official rules for that would be awesome!  It would be a good "White Dwarf" article on how to convert Kharadron airships into properly Ratty vessels and have official rules for them. 

A guy can squeak-dream about it, anyway...  

[Overread]

I think if you converted them they'd just be "counts as" conversions for regular models - ergo you'd not get the flying bonus (perhaps reasoning that the Skaven stole them but can't fly them too well neither and are more apt to crash than fly over terrain obstacles).

 

That said I could see skaven getting 1 model (perhaps duel build) which flies. Indeed it wouldn't shock me if GW steadily made flying models rather like they are in 40K - a mainstay of armies. KO would still be unique, but others could get one or two models with fly outside of heroic dragons. 

[Num]

I think that this fluff is rather meant to give us design space to create our own clans. The older books also feature tons of clans, and none were made into actual models. However, it served as a source of inspiration for players, as evidenced by the many "clan skurvy" armies on display (e.g., in one of the warhammer visions).

I believe this is the sole reason why the battletome mentions them, says that "there are billions of skaven clans", and even give tips to build one's own clan.

Disclaimer: my own clan is Clan Prepnik. They are devoted rats terrified by black hunger and led by a megalomaniac grey seer sustaining their phobia. They farm tremendous amounts of black corn, stockpile it "just in case", and trade some with other clans.

[Carnelian]

If you listen to voxcast or stormcast the writers are specifically leaving spaces for the design team to explore in the future - whether or not they are aware of something specific on the horizon. 

[Overread]

Aye there are several big clear leaders for either lore writers or custom models for fans to build; whilst also leaving a few gaps for GW to expand into. A group of skaven escaping down their own personal Gnawhole is an ideal way to setup almost anything GW wants. If they are fleshed out to have also taken their breeders with them they could be made into a future splinter skaven faction - either within Chaos itself or even within another Grand Alliance (rats called by a powerful Slaan and kept in a pocket plane isolated from the influence of Chaos and the Great Horned One for long enough that the taint breeds out of them). Or a new Clan that arises to challenge the others with their own weapons of war - perhaps being called to reclaim the ancient chronomatic weapons of the fallen Clan, of whom one great leader foresaw their own demise and decided to play the long game and hide so that he could rebuild later.

Skyships certainly leaves openings for Skaven getting at least one or two that fall into general service with the rest of the clans - I can't see GW doing a whole army, but I can see that air units might become a thing for AoS. It's certainly something skaven lack - something in the air - and which they could easily be made to have (even Old World skaven would have been ripe for an air unit be it biological, mechanical or some monster of a hybrid). 

 

I just feel that any major changes like that are many years off. Well after GW does an upgrade pass over the army and likely well into AoS 3.0 or beyond. Skaven have survived the fall of the Old World rather well and held onto a lot of their most iconic traits and weapons; heck the way their lore plays out they are almost perfectly transposed from one setting to the next. Short lifespans of most grand leaders and the continual swap around of the power structure and their territories (plus the fact that most of their empire was the underhive). 

[Asensur]

Skaven need a renewal of several models before. 

Mainly:

-Eshin troops

-Moulder troops (Rat ogres specifically) 

-Pestilens troops

-Skryre weapon teams/Acolytes

There is such a huge gap between 6th ed. Skaven and 7th ed. Skavens. 

[Overread]

My only worry is that GW will go full "bloodbowl team" style with the rats - which look great until you factor in the huge amount of added time it would take to clean and how vulnerable they would become. The classic clanrat - whilst not as dynamic, is at least a durable model (its tail is not hanging in the air ready to snap) and keeps the mould line leaning to a minimum. You're going to bunch them up anyway and want to put loads on the table - its so much easier with neat rats than say, really dynamic daughters of kane all dancing on thin sticks of plastic. 

 

Though I won't deny a whole host of witch aleves with twinblades looks fantastic

[Rogue Explorator]

5 hours ago, Num said:

I think that this fluff is rather meant to give us design space to create our own clans. The older books also feature tons of clans, and none were made into actual models. However, it served as a source of inspiration for players, as evidenced by the many "clan skurvy" armies on display (e.g., in one of the warhammer visions).

I believe this is the sole reason why the battletome mentions them, says that "there are billions of skaven clans", and even give tips to build one's own clan.

Disclaimer: my own clan is Clan Prepnik. They are devoted rats terrified by black hunger and led by a megalomaniac grey seer sustaining their phobia. They farm tremendous amounts of black corn, stockpile it "just in case", and trade some with other clans.

Well, there is the new distinction between clan and Great Clan in AoS.

There are hundreds if not thousands of clans belonging to each Great Clans, giving players plenty of space to make their own.

On the other hand, I see Great Clans as a design space mostly for GW as they would involve introducing new themes, visuals and models. Something players can not really do without serious amounts of counts-as.

 

 

As for those saying something like this would propably be years of, I tend to agree.

However, I thought the same about Nighthaunt and yet they came quite shortly after Legions of Nagash.

 

It is similar for the argument that Skaven have a lot of badly aged models. I really would like to see plastics for Weapon Teams, Skryre Akolytes, Nightrunners, Gutter Runners etc.

However, Daemons and Gloomspite Gitz are the only factions to get redoes of existing kits so far. In general there has been a preference in AoS to bring out new kits and factions, not to redo aged kits.

 

So, while I am very far from expecting it, I would not be shocked if some kind of new-skaven got released in the next two years either.

[bushman101]

I don't see anything new coming for Skaven soon. But at the same time, they could always sneak in something in a White Dwarf or even the Generals Handbook.  Maybe some of the old models could make a comeback (looking at you, Mortar Team)

[Kugane]

I would even be satisfied with an upgrade kit  for clanrats to nightrunners at this point. 

The release of a dual kit has lead to a full on kit release before though. Also skryre had leaked design info like 3 years ago already. There were new machines in the making, but that rumour died off nearly completely.

[Ashendant]

12 hours ago, Num said:

I think that this fluff is rather meant to give us design space to create our own clans. The older books also feature tons of clans, and none were made into actual models. However, it served as a source of inspiration for players, as evidenced by the many "clan skurvy" armies on display (e.g., in one of the warhammer visions).

I believe this is the sole reason why the battletome mentions them, says that "there are billions of skaven clans", and even give tips to build one's own clan.

Disclaimer: my own clan is Clan Prepnik. They are devoted rats terrified by black hunger and led by a megalomaniac grey seer sustaining their phobia. They farm tremendous amounts of black corn, stockpile it "just in case", and trade some with other clans.

These three above-mentioned clans are not just any clans, They are Great Clans, each containing an enormous numbers of smaller clans within.

Also I don't think Clans can be led by Grey Seers, only employed by them.

[Jator]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:49 AM, Carnelian said:

If you listen to voxcast or stormcast the writers are specifically leaving spaces for the design team to explore in the future - whether or not they are aware of something specific on the horizon. 

This is what Tuomas Pirinen called the "Closed Door" approach:
 

Quote

While this might be different now, during my time at the Design Studio we used a method called the "closed door". We added mysterious, hinted-at aspects to the fiction, maybe just mentioned in the passing, to create mystery and questions in the minds of the fans -without any immediate plans on deciding what the fiction piece actually is. It could be a lost Space Marine Legion, Primarch, mythical hero, lost continent or planet or anything else. Now, then we'd return to it years later and flesh it out properly, and fans would think in amazement that we planned it like that from the beginning -which was not true. Almost all super-secret groups in WH/40K mythos were like that.

1

(From an interview here, although he has referred to it previously on his facebook page)
The fluff about the  Clans Tichritt sounds especially cool, with skaven jumping in time to the present. It reminds me of the "Dwarfs" from the Elder Scrolls games.

Fan-theories aside, it is unlikely that anything like that has been even considered at this point. As others have pointed out, skaven have a huge range, and many units need an overhaul. I actually think our beloved rats we'll see some kind of update relatively soon (like 2 years), even if it is only new models for some old unit coming with a new box set, in a similar fashion to how new genestealers units have been introduced before their codex.
 And the old clans still have room to expand!
 

[AdDuly]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:29 AM, Asensur said:

Skaven need a renewal of several models before. 

Mainly:

-Eshin troops

-Moulder troops (Rat ogres specifically) 

-Pestilens troops

-Skryre weapon teams/Acolytes

There is such a huge gap between 6th ed. Skaven and 7th ed. Skavens. 

Personally, the lack of model updates for this tome suggests to me that they'll likely retire many of these on the next book.

This book felt mostly like a stop gap, and then when they are ready (in 2 or 3 years maybe) they'll rerelease Skaven, with moulder and Eshin being destroyed, and maybe Tichritt and Shrykt taking their place to go with to Skryre and pestilence to be the 4 produced clans.

Personally I doubt they'll support more than 4 clans at any point.

[Skreech Verminking]

36 minutes ago, AdDuly said:

Personally, the lack of model updates for this tome suggests to me that they'll likely retire many of these on the next book.

This book felt mostly like a stop gap, and then when they are ready (in 2 or 3 years maybe) they'll rerelease Skaven, with moulder and Eshin being destroyed, and maybe Tichritt and Shrykt taking their place to go with to Skryre and pestilence to be the 4 produced clans.

Personally I doubt they'll support more than 4 clans at any point.

It could be possible but, it’s probably one of the least things I would want to see for the skaven happening.

the skaven are afterall so special because they have all of the different option.

killing one of the clans would make the skaven less interesting.

 

[AdDuly]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It could be possible but, it’s probably one of the least things I would want to see for the skaven happening.

the skaven are afterall so special because they have all of the different option.

killing one of the clans would make the skaven less interesting.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't like to see Moulder or Eshin go either, although I think it's likely that if they were retired, the clan that replaces them would be similarly unique from any other.

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, AdDuly said:

Yeah, I wouldn't like to see Moulder or Eshin go either, although I think it's likely that if they were retired, the clan that replaces them would be similarly unique from any other.

Let’s see and wait.

although it would make me happy if all of the clans stay as they are.

[Whitefang]

7 hours ago, AdDuly said:

Yeah, I wouldn't like to see Moulder or Eshin go either, although I think it's likely that if they were retired, the clan that replaces them would be similarly unique from any other.

More likely they are going to recast new models to replace old ones and add some new lore and units.

It appears impossible to me that they destroy some too classic elements of a faction which even successfully survived the ET.

[Rogue Explorator]

I think if they wanted to remove any Great Clans they would have done that by now, with the battletome at the latest. By now they really can't do that without a serious upset.

 

I think the big question is, what thematic room is there for Skaven to be expanded, seeing as the existing great clans already cover a lot of ground.

Airships are mentioned, but those in the battletome belong explicitly to the Clans Skryre.

A more traditionally naval force would be rather indistinguishable from the Clans Verminus. It would seem more likely that each Great Clan has spawned a few naval ofshoot clans.

 

The biggest gap I can think of is between Skryre and Verminus. One is a force of inventors and experimentors that create amazing, but often unique and hand crafted technology. The other is a pure horde, specifically mentioned to field only melee troops on their own.

Skaven actually used to have pistols and rifles, though only ever on heroes. That leaves space for a Skaven force that uses cheap mass produced technology. Not as fancy as Skryre tech, though thanks to poor quality control just as misfire prone. And not quite as numerous as Verminus, though still enough for a horde.

I feel like that could play quite well on the Skavens more overarching themes of pollution and disregard for life, with smoke belching factory warrens filled with overworked slaves and the horrors of WW1 style ternch warfare. I went on about this idea quite extensively in previous threads, so I'll stop here.

 

Other than that I really come up empty with ideas of a scope comparable to the existing Great Clans. The example of Clans Tychrit seems far to narrow in focus, while the Clans Ikk specialisation just is not unique enough.

If anybody else has some ideas what other venues to expand the Skaven theme could be explored, I'd be interested.

[JPjr]

How about Mousketeers?

[Skreech Verminking]

Or a new special hero playing a flute, while beeing followed by hundreds of smaller rats 

[Ashendant]

For anybody interested I started this page for Fun in the Lexicanum recording every hint for new factions in AoS, like the ones mentioned in this thread. Feel free to join and add what you can find.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lexicanum:_Hinted_factions