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D6 Movement profiles & Running


Warfiend

Question

Some units instead of having a set movement distance can instead move an amount decided by a dice roll every turn. For example Chaos Spawn and Boingrot Bounderz each have a 2D6 movement profile.

When you choose a unit to make a move you can at that time declare it will also run in addition to it's normal move.

This creates two possible scenarios for units with variable movement profiles:

1: Choose a unit of Chaos Spawn.
2: Declare it will run
3: Roll 3D6 to determine it's maximum movement distance.
4: Move the unit

or

1: Roll 2D6 to see the movement characteristic of each Chaos Spawn unit
2: Choose a unit of Chaos Spawn
3: Declare it will run
4: Roll 1D6 and add it to the predetermined movement value
5: Move the unit

So far we've been playing it as described in the first scenario however we're wondering if we've been doing it wrong?

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I think your first scenario is indeed correct. Here is the relevant information from the Core Rules:

 

"When you pick a unit to make a normal move, you can declare that it will run. Make a run roll for the unit by rolling a dice. Add the result of the run roll to the Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that movement phase."

(https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf, page 4 under RUNNING)

 

After reading this, we know that have to declare a run when you pick a unit to make a normal move. Lets see what we find about random movement values:

 

"When a unit with a random Move characteristic is selected to move in the movement phase, roll the indicated number of dice. The total of the dice rolled is the Move characteristic for all models in the unit for the duration of that movement phase."

(https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf, page 13 under Random Values)

 

Following this, a random movement characteristic is determined when you select a unit to move. It seems to happen at the same time as declaring wether the unit will run or not. Since there is nothing in the rules stopping two rule mechanics to happen at the same time, my conclusion is that you have to roll the random movement and the run roll together. Therefore, you are not allowed to run with a unit for which you allready determined its Move characterisic.

I hope this explanation was helpful to you.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:04 AM, Isotop said:

. Since there is nothing in the rules stopping two rule mechanics to happen at the same time,

I think this isn't quite right, because of the following in the FAQ (https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Core-Rules-and-Bases-Sizes-EN.pdf):

Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in which they are used?

A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then the player whose turn is not taking place uses their abilities, one after another, in any order they desire. The same principle applies to any other things – such as command traits or artefacts of power – that can be used simultaneously.

Bolding mine.  I think it's pretty clear that even things that happen at the same time actually still happen one after another.  And if you have a choice of several abilities that *could* happen at the same time, you don't have to declare all of them before attempting any of them - you can do one, then decide whether or not to do the next.

Edited by amysrevenge
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12 hours ago, Warfiend said:

Some units instead of having a set movement distance can instead move an amount decided by a dice roll every turn. For example Chaos Spawn and Boingrot Bounderz each have a 2D6 movement profile.

When you choose a unit to make a move you can at that time declare it will also run in addition to it's normal move.

This creates two possible scenarios for units with variable movement profiles:

1: Choose a unit of Chaos Spawn.
2: Declare it will run
3: Roll 3D6 to determine it's maximum movement distance.
4: Move the unit

I've been playing it something like this. One thing I have been doing differently is rolling them separately. You can command ability the run result into a 6. So I declare my bounders are going to run. Roll for their movement. Then roll for the run dice. Once I've declared that they are running I'm locked in, even if they rolled high enough that I wouldn't choose to run them. Another way would be a different coloured run dice.

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2 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

I think this isn't quite right, because of the following in the FAQ (https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Core-Rules-and-Bases-Sizes-EN.pdf):

Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in which they are used?

A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then the player whose turn is not taking place uses their abilities, one after another, in any order they desire. The same principle applies to any other things – such as command traits or artefacts of power – that can be used simultaneously.

Bolding mine.  I think it's pretty clear that even things that happen at the same time actually still happen one after another.  And if you have a choice of several abilities that *could* happen at the same time, you don't have to declare all of them before attempting any of them - you can do one, then decide whether or not to do the next.

I did not think that the rolling of dice was an "ability". Because of this I called it a "rule mechanic". What exactly an "ability" is would be a great insight regarding other rules questions as well.

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On 2/20/2019 at 1:39 AM, Warfiend said:

Some units instead of having a set movement distance can instead move an amount decided by a dice roll every turn. For example Chaos Spawn and Boingrot Bounderz each have a 2D6 movement profile.

When you choose a unit to make a move you can at that time declare it will also run in addition to it's normal move.

This creates two possible scenarios for units with variable movement profiles:

1: Choose a unit of Chaos Spawn.
2: Declare it will run
3: Roll 3D6 to determine it's maximum movement distance.
4: Move the unit

or

1: Roll 2D6 to see the movement characteristic of each Chaos Spawn unit
2: Choose a unit of Chaos Spawn
3: Declare it will run
4: Roll 1D6 and add it to the predetermined movement value
5: Move the unit

So far we've been playing it as described in the first scenario however we're wondering if we've been doing it wrong?

It’s the second scenario. For the spawn it mostly does not matter,  you can speed things up by rolling together. 

But you decide the order like @amysrevenge stated. And that can be important with, for example,  the doomwheel. Deciding to re-roll is depended on your distance and deciding to run influences the option of charging. So besides keeping the run dice separate because you can’t re-roll that one as a doomwheel it also has a very big tactical impact. 

But like shown in the faq Amysrevenge quoted it’s you call as they both happen the moment you decide to move that model. 

As for calling that random characteristic an ability or not, it’s a fair point by @Isotop and there you get into a bit of Rai vs Raw. Although raw also doesn’t disqualify the random characteristic as an ability as far as I can tell. 

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1 minute ago, Kramer said:

It’s the second scenario. For the spawn it mostly does not matter,  you can speed things up by rolling together. 

But you decide the order like @amysrevenge stated. And that can be important with, for example,  the doomwheel. Deciding to re-roll is depended on your distance and deciding to run influences the option of charging. So besides keeping the run dice separate because you can’t re-roll that one as a doomwheel it also has a very big tactical impact. 

But like shown in the faq Amysrevenge quoted it’s you call as they both happen the moment you decide to move that model. 

As for calling that random characteristic an ability or not, it’s a fair point by @Isotop and there you get into a bit of Rai vs Raw. Although raw also doesn’t disqualify the random characteristic as an ability as far as I can tell. 

So according to this you're saying it's alright to first roll for your move distance and depending on the result decide if you're going to run or not.
 

 

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