AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

@Kirjava13 I think you're going to be relying quite heavily on those 6 Stormfiends surviving and getting buffed, so yeah I would rather give them all the buffs they can get to make sure they kill whatever they're shooting at each turn; MMMWP + Spark + Vigordust. I agree with @Darkhan that having a backup to MMMWP not going off isn't necessary but you'll likely be glad you did. That said, if you're playing Hero\Behemoth\Wizard controlled objectives, a Warpseer with Stone is pretty much ensuring you'll hold that objective the entire game, at least from my experience.

But yes, I think in your particular setup a AW + Bombardier is just fine as you have a backup of MMMWP in case the AW goes down and he serves a purpose by staying with the WLC. With what you've submitted, I would say you're good; Solid body count, good heroes (of course I don't care for the Clawlord really but, not much room for a Grey Seer) and some good shooting hammers.

Be sure to keep us updated on how it goes.

[Kirjava13]

My reasons for taking the Clawlord are as follows:

- I have the Skryre General model, and I think it's cool af.
- He buffs the Clanrats.
- I have 100 points left over otherwise. 

I could swap him for another Warlock, to get even more spells going on (that would net me six total). If I take out the Clawlord and the Gravetide I have 120 points to play with- it's immaterial at this point as I have submitted the list, but I could play around with Endless Spells... I wonder how much a Balewind Vortex would help this army?

[Gwendar]

Not as much as it used to. If you use one it would most assuredly need to be on the AW (just like before the update) but even then I wouldn't bring one unless you just had the points leftover.

All in all they're good points and I see why you would bring it.. so no worries there. Good luck man.

[Laststand]

7 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

My reasons for taking the Clawlord are as follows:

- I have the Skryre General model, and I think it's cool af.
- He buffs the Clanrats.
- I have 100 points left over otherwise. 

I could swap him for another Warlock, to get even more spells going on (that would net me six total). If I take out the Clawlord and the Gravetide I have 120 points to play with- it's immaterial at this point as I have submitted the list, but I could play around with Endless Spells... I wonder how much a Balewind Vortex would help this army?

If you have 120pts knocking around you could add 10 stormvermin?

[Laststand]

Hope noone minds this post but I know we all like battle reports. I played 1,500pts of Skaven v Stormcast the other day and instead of writing it up my buddy filmed it for his new youtube channel. He is just learning how to do this properly so the camera work is a learning curve but we had a blast playing and the Horned Rat smiled on the result (despite a couple of rule errors on either side!) Check it out if you have some time.

 

[Darkhan]

8 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

My reasons for taking the Clawlord are as follows:

- I have the Skryre General model, and I think it's cool af.
- He buffs the Clanrats.
- I have 100 points left over otherwise. 

I could swap him for another Warlock, to get even more spells going on (that would net me six total). If I take out the Clawlord and the Gravetide I have 120 points to play with- it's immaterial at this point as I have submitted the list, but I could play around with Endless Spells... I wonder how much a Balewind Vortex would help this army?

Go with the list man! GO WITH IT!:D

Please do share with us how everything went:)

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Laststand said:

Hope noone minds this post but I know we all like battle reports. I played 1,500pts of Skaven v Stormcast the other day and instead of writing it up my buddy filmed it for his new youtube channel. He is just learning how to do this properly so the camera work is a learning curve but we had a blast playing and the Horned Rat smiled on the result (despite a couple of rule errors on either side!) Check it out if you have some time.

 

That’s one great battle-report.

 

[Kirjava13]

4 hours ago, Laststand said:

If you have 120pts knocking around you could add 10 stormvermin?

Might be interesting but unfortunately I only have five Stormvermin, having cannibalised almost all of my bits to make Jezzails and Acolytes!

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, Laststand said:

If you have 120pts knocking around you could add 10 stormvermin?

I think the force multiplying capabilities with the Clawlords CA on 40 Clanrats (and another hero for certain objectives) outweighs the output of 10 Stormvermin.

[Skreech Verminking]

And the bell of doom cracking into the realm of mortals, bringing despair and destruction to anyone, that stands in the way of mighty Queek Headtaker and his Hordes of relentless backstabbers.

so what do you think guys?

 

[Kirjava13]

Looks great man! You've really nailed down the subtle different shades of green, and it looks suitably ominous.

[States]

What do you guys think between these two?:

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
Warlock Bombardier (100)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 159
 

or

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
Verminlord Warpseer (300)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

[Gwendar]

@States 2, personally. You have the Fiends (assuming you built them Launchers\Ratlings) for killing anything, the WLC for hero sniping and the minimum 80 bodies for objectives\screening. Not that the first list is bad, but I think if you're running Ratlings you may as well throw in 3 (or 2 if you're also running Fiends like this).

That 3 hero setup is my go-to in every list I use and won't disappoint. In one of my Stormfiend setups I have 9 and run a Grey Seer on foot instead.. so long as I have something with Skitterleap. I know we all talk about using Skitterleap almost exclusively in conjunction with the WLV, but remember to use it throughout as it's a great way to cap an empty objective (or lightly guarded for the Waprseer to take on a good charge). Since it only teleports hero's and isn't used as much as other armies teleports, people sometimes forget about it and leave objectives open from time to time.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Gwendar

[Congratz]

Is it worth taking a unit of 6 Jezzails? Heard 9 is the lucky number, however i sadly don't have enough points for that in my list.

Thoughts?

[Gwendar]

@Congratz I think 6 is the minimum to take and still take out small heroes\severely wound larger ones. I think they work nicely in conjunction with 6 Stormfiends based on what I've seen. I just wouldn't buff them with anything if you want them to stick around (except Deranged Inventor if they still need to move).

If you want to really ensure bigger things die, 9 is the way to go.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Gwendar

[Congratz]

Anyone got any ideas on how to increase the Jezzails from 6 to 9? 

Maybe either drop the Arch-Warlock and make him a Bombadier or drop a Greyseer? or maybe 20 clanrats?

Thoughts?

List:

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Arch-Warlock (160)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 1x Icon of Pestilence
- 1x Contagion Banner
- 1x Doom Gongs
- 1x Bale Chimes
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 180
 

[robbobobo]

I'd drop the extra Grey Seer; you already have six casts/dispels so having two more doesn't really help you here unless you blow out on the cheaper endless spells. Otherwise The list looks great.

EDIT: There are never enough Clanrats. Never consider dropping any amount without thinking long and hard about putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Edited August 8, 2019 by robbobobo

[Darkhan]

9 hours ago, Congratz said:

Spoiler

 

Anyone got any ideas on how to increase the Jezzails from 6 to 9? 

Maybe either drop the Arch-Warlock and make him a Bombadier or drop a Greyseer? or maybe 20 clanrats?

Thoughts?

List:

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Arch-Warlock (160)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 1x Icon of Pestilence
- 1x Contagion Banner
- 1x Doom Gongs
- 1x Bale Chimes
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 1920 / 2000

Spoiler

 

Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 180

 

 

Make the AW into a bombardier:) Imo, since you don't have any stormfiends, or a 3+ team of ratling gunners, I think you should be safe to downgrade him.

He will probably just hug the jezzails just sparking them/MMWP when needed.

I would not swap out a grey seer if you are planing on the skitterleap WLV combo, and the other one to follow the monks around casting deathfrenzy.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Darkhan

[Congratz]

2 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Make the AW into a bombardier:) Imo, since you don't have any stormfiends, or a 3+ team of ratling gunners, I think you should be safe to downgrade him.

He will probably just hug the jezzails just sparking them/MMWP when needed.

I would not swap out a grey seer if you are planing on the skitterleap WLV combo, and the other one to follow the monks around casting deathfrenzy.

 

Will do that then! Yeah it seems like a waste to downgrade the Greyseers

[States]

On 8/6/2019 at 3:16 PM, Gwendar said:

@States 2, personally. You have the Fiends (assuming you built them Launchers\Ratlings) for killing anything, the WLC for hero sniping and the minimum 80 bodies for objectives\screening. Not that the first list is bad, but I think if you're running Ratlings you may as well throw in 3 (or 2 if you're also running Fiends like this).

That 3 hero setup is my go-to in every list I use and won't disappoint. In one of my Stormfiend setups I have 9 and run a Grey Seer on foot instead.. so long as I have something with Skitterleap. I know we all talk about using Skitterleap almost exclusively in conjunction with the WLV, but remember to use it throughout as it's a great way to cap an empty objective (or lightly guarded for the Waprseer to take on a good charge). Since it only teleports hero's and isn't used as much as other armies teleports, people sometimes forget about it and leave objectives open from time to time.

Who do you think should be the general? And I assume the best one to skitterleap and WLV would be the archwarlock with +1 (gnawholes) and reroll?

Would you switch anything I have out? I have everything except stormvermin, jezzails. and plague monks

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, States said:

Who do you think should be the general? And I assume the best one to skitterleap and WLV would be the archwarlock with +1 (gnawholes) and reroll?

Would you switch anything I have out? I have everything except stormvermin, jezzails. and plague monks

If I have 2 Skryre units I'll generally go with the AW so I can get Deranged Inventor and you can still do this if you want a "backup" to MMMWP not going off. Otherwise, my Warpseer is General with Master of Magic because I like it when Warpgale goes off.  Aside from Thanquol, the AW maths out to be the best option I believe since the Grey Seers can't use modifiers when they triple roll. Plus, if you get him stuck somewhere he's reasonably tanky enough to handle small units being thrown at him.

As for switching anything out; not sure really. Shackles are very short range and since a single wizard can only cast 1 endless spell per phase, you likely won't be putting WLV and Shackles within range of each other T1. Same could be said for Vermintide; great spell, but it's strength is in it's wide base blocking movement and the threat of it doing more damage if you finish too close to it. I would experiment and see if it works for you, otherwise maybe consider dropping both of those and using those 80 points to bulk up a Clanrat unit to 40 (80 is my minimum, but I like to bring 100 for more competitive lists if I'm able).

[States]

30 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

If I have 2 Skryre units I'll generally go with the AW so I can get Deranged Inventor and you can still do this if you want a "backup" to MMMWP not going off. Otherwise, my Warpseer is General with Master of Magic because I like it when Warpgale goes off.  Aside from Thanquol, the AW maths out to be the best option I believe since the Grey Seers can't use modifiers when they triple roll. Plus, if you get him stuck somewhere he's reasonably tanky enough to handle small units being thrown at him.

As for switching anything out; not sure really. Shackles are very short range and since a single wizard can only cast 1 endless spell per phase, you likely won't be putting WLV and Shackles within range of each other T1. Same could be said for Vermintide; great spell, but it's strength is in it's wide base blocking movement and the threat of it doing more damage if you finish too close to it. I would experiment and see if it works for you, otherwise maybe consider dropping both of those and using those 80 points to bulk up a Clanrat unit to 40 (80 is my minimum, but I like to bring 100 for more competitive lists if I'm able).

Ok so since I only have stormfiends I guess warpseer will be the general

Good advice. Don't have more clanrats (got tired after doing those 100 well painted). Maybe 80 could be for a ratling or warpflamer instead? Keep the spells or go for a team?

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, States said:

Maybe 80 could be for a ratling or warpflamer instead? Keep the spells or go for a team?

I would say the spells or a Warpgrinder for the Stormfiends to be in range of something for the Ratlings. Of course if they're underground the AW can't do any buffing that turn, so keep that in mind... but deepstriking 6 of them can have other benefits, just depends on the game.

The Warpfire Thrower just isn't good against anything that can hit it with spells\prayers or ranged as even horrible plink shooting can easily kill it. Most armies have 1 or both of these things.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Gwendar

[swarmofseals]

Was thinking about trying this list:

Grey Seer (140) - Warpgale (can also see a case for Plague)

Warlock Bombardier (100) -General: Deranged Inventor,  Vigourdust Injector, More-More-More Warp Power!

Veminlord Warpseer (300)

3x40 Clanrats (600)

9x Stormfiends (3x Mortars, 3x Ratling Guns, 3x melee, probably Shock Gauntlets) - 780

Endless Spells: Soulscream Bridge - 80

 

The list is obviously pretty extreme. The intention is to focus on playing the objective game through numbers while using the heavily buffed Stormfiends to slow down the opponent's damage output. The Soulscream Bridge should allow you to get the Stormfiends where you need them to do peak damage starting on T1. Between the bridge and the Gnawholes it will be very difficult for the opponent to zone you out, and even if they do it probably means pulling a lot of their stuff out of position, making it harder for them to quickly work through your Clanrats. I want to put as much strain on my opponent's resources as I can. Warpgale and Dreaded Warpgale should also assist with this. The Stormfiends should also be able to pack a surprising wallop in close combat.

Some things I considered:

• I could trade the Verminlord for a Screaming Bell, but I think this army REALLY needs the bigger batteshock immunity command ability.
• I could drop the Grey Seer and upgrade the Warlock Bombardier to an Arch-Warlock. This is an interesting one, but I'm not really sure if it's worthwhile. Wither, Warpgale or Plague are really good, and Warpstone makes the bridge quite reliable. Arch-Warlock can spark himself for the reroll to cast, but that does increase the likelihood of self damage. I'd also be losing a cast/unbind and I'm not really certain what I'd do with the 80 points saved. 
• I could drop 20 Clanrats to upgrade to an Arch-Warlock, but again this seems like giving up a lot for a pretty minor benefit.
• I could drop 20 Clanrats to upgrade the Grey Seer to a Screaming Bell. This does add extra help with battleshock, but the loss of 20 Clanrats makes that less relevant anyway. Also, Wither to Cracks Call is a big downgrade. Rolling a 7 or 10+ on the bell is really nice but hardly reliable. The damage results on the bell don't seem like they'd do much. 
• I could drop the Grey Seer for a second Warlock Bombardier. This is perhaps the most tempting change, as it allows me to have a backup MMMWP and split off the Vigordust Injector from the Deranged Inventor while upping my ranged damage a little. I lose the excellent Grey Seer spell and am down one cast/unbind, but this might be worth it for the redundancy. It will likely force me to use a spark to increase the likelihood of resolving bridge, however. It also leaves me with 40 extra points, which would be enough for a triumph most of the time. Alternately I could grab Vermintide, which could be very helpful in limiting enemy mobility.

Thoughts?

Just in case anyone is curious, I compared the drop count to all of the ETC 2019 lists, and this list (7 drops) would get the turn choice about 51% of the time. An 8 drop list gets the turn choice about 41% of the time. ETC 2019 uses GHB2018 pointings, but I suspect the drop counts won't change massively.

 

[Obeisance]

In all seriousness, do people consider Stormfiends competitive?

I get the impression you need to take 6 to get anything out of them.. and buff them.. or you could take a blob of Plague Monks?

Seems like a heavy investment to get anything out of them. I desperately want Stormfiends to be worthwhile, as I love the models.