AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Saodexan  the warscroll for the rattling gunner does specify when to create the characteristic, which is in line with the core rules concerning generating attacks. However, I don't believe this directly addresses interacting with an opponents characteristic while also not in a combat related phase. I willing to bet your correct about the intention of the spell, rolling for it as the spell resolves,  but I also need some clarification for my playgroup's sake. 

That sounds like an email to the rules team (of course you typically end up waiting awhile and be sure not to ask them about base sizes as they still have no clue) but I would agree with @Saodexan and his interpretation.

[Saodexan]

2 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Saodexan  the warscroll for the rattling gunner does specify when to create the characteristic, which is in line with the core rules concerning generating attacks. However, I don't believe this directly addresses interacting with an opponents characteristic while also not in a combat related phase. I willing to bet your correct about the intention of the spell, rolling for it as the spell resolves,  but I also need some clarification for my playgroup's sake. 

"Madness has a casting value of 8. If successfully cast, pick 1 enemy Hero within 3" of the caster and visible to them, and roll a number of dice equal to the combined value of the Attacks characteristics of all melee weapons that Hero is armed with..."

Just curious, what is the value of 2d6 attacks for your playgroup if it's not 2d6. How do you guys interpret it otherwise ? 

About rolling at the top of a phase, it's only to keep the same value for all this phase, it's not the prevent it to be rolled in other phase if you need the random value. For exemple, if you need to move or attacks in the hero phase with a command ability or spell, you will roll for it.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Saodexan

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Saodexan We did indeed believe we just re-rolled the value. We needed to finish the game after all. It did feel weird that my friend rolled only 4 attacks in the previous round to do his attack phase, then I roll up and roll 11 for him for a total of 18 dice on a 4+ to kill off his hero. Its the classic "somebody got shafted too hard due to an ambiguous rule" type deal and questioned the whole thing. Its just that nothing refers to it outright (when to make the role). 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Saodexan]

3 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Saodexan We did indeed believe we just re-rolled the value. We needed to finish the game after all. It did feel weird that my friend rolled only 4 attacks in the previous round to do his attack phase, then I roll up and roll 11 for him for a total of 18 dice on a 4+ to kill off his hero. Its the classic "somebody got shafted too hard due to an ambiguous rule" type deal and questioned the whole thing. Its just that nothing refers to it outright (when to make the role). 

Madness do mortal wound on 5+ but i understand, random attacks can be very swingy. Let him roll the number of attacks for his model, even if it is for your spell effect, maybe you will both feel less bad about the result. I wish i could help you more, and good luck for your next game !   

[KingOfSuede]

So! Finally played my first game last night with the few models I have ready. Played 1k against Dispossessed (My opponent said they wanted to take it easy on me)
Won't do a full batrep but safe to say that I now understand the Warpseer's power in action, shrugging off a total of 8 wounds over the course of 2 rounds and single handedly taking out a unit of 10 and a hero that started in reserve and deployed behind me. Had some lucky rolls with my single unit of 3 Jezzails, never moved them and managed to deal 8 mortal wounds over 2 rounds of shooting.  I failed most of my spellcasting rolls and had the ones I made unbound. Didn't seem to matter because by the time my opponent got the bulk of his forces tied up in my Clanrats, my Stormfiends and Bombardier were flanking around to clean up the rest of his army. With the store closing soon, we mathed out the next movement phase and figured out my opponent couldn't get any of his units onto either of the objectives I was holding so he conceded there. Had a great time and think I'm ready to bring glory to the Great Horned Rat ♥

The point of this post is to go over my list for my store's upcoming escalation league. As far as I know, we're playing without objectives. This is supposed to be a strictly-for-fun league. I'm pretty sure games are going to be a certain number of rounds (5?) and the winner is the player that kills more points worth of models over those rounds or their entire army. We'll play 2 games at each level starting at 1k, then 1.5k, then 2k.

For 1k, I'm playing 
 

Spoiler

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- General
- Deranged Inventor
- Vigordust Injector
- More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer (120)
- Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Chain Warp Lightning

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
-Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
-Rusty Spear

Artillery
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 107

For 1.5k:

Spoiler

Same as above plus...

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- Sword of Judgement

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
-Rusty Blade

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1500/1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 139

For 2k:

Spoiler

Same as above plus...

Artillery
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Other
15 x Skryre Acolytes (180)

Total: 2000/2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 168

As I said, this is just for fun and my first army so I don't have a lot of wiggle room, but if anyone has any comments or direction to give me to try other things?
The league has 17 members so I'm planning on facing  a wide variety of factions. I know for a fact there'll be another Skaven player, Beastclaw Raiders, Kharadron Overlords, Deepkin, Seraphon, Stormcast Eternal.

Edited May 26, 2019 by KingOfSuede

[Coyote]

Apologize if old question- Jezzails - Used Spark to give plus 1 damage.... rolled unmodified 6’s to Hit or Attack while shooting (3 actually...)... 

Did I do 6 mortals (3 6’s x 2 MW each) 

Or if there is true justice in this world, did I actually do 9 ( 3 6’s x 3 MW because the Horny Rat is bestest)?

[Rangeltoft]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:35 AM, AliKing said:

Been thinking about doing an eshin army and came up with one I think I like the look of:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Verminlord Deciever 
General, Shadow master (hidey near terrain one)

Vermin lord warpseer

Deathmaster
The cube of mists (pick a unit, that unit cant pile in this turn)

Deathmaster
Betrayers Crown (one use, at start of combat pick a unit. Roll a die for each model on a 5+ 1MW)

x40 Night Runners
x40 Night Runners
x40 Night Runners
x5 Gutter Runners
x5 Gutter Runners
x5 Gutter Runners

Slinktail talon

Chromatic Cogs

Realm: Uglu

 

Main plan would be charge forward as quickly as possible an inflict as much damage as it can. If cogs go off on average the night runners should be able to get forward 16" on average, throw a lot of stars, then charge. The assassins can stop a counter attack from one big scary enemy, and severely hurt another large one.  Deceiver makes re-rolls to wound and shoot to help with the damage output on both fronts, and the formation adding in the re-rolls to hit would give the night runner 3+ to wound and hit re-rolling both.  Then Warpseer is their to do what warpseers do well basically.

Probably will give the death masters weeping blades just to help with cracking amour a little, although I was tempted to give one sword of judgement and fighting claws, not quite plague reapers but 7 attacks re-rolling hits could make it quite nice hero killer. 

Also on a side note anyone know of a good way to make night runner easily out of the clanrat models?

Really liking the options with all the tricks that can be played now with Eshin. All the unit that can be are in the battalion, leaving me with 2 drops. Not sure which death master will be part of the yet.

@AliKing    just a random thought, but doesn´t the none-general Warpseer break the Eshin Allegiance ?

Edited May 26, 2019 by Rangeltoft
tagging person

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

Apologize if old question- Jezzails - Used Spark to give plus 1 damage.... rolled unmodified 6’s to Hit or Attack while shooting (3 actually...)... 

Did I do 6 mortals (3 6’s x 2 MW each) 

Or if there is true justice in this world, did I actually do 9 ( 3 6’s x 3 MW because the Horny Rat is bestest)?

The spark does not add a damage on the MW's if I recall, only to the normal hits.

2 minutes ago, Rangeltoft said:

just a random thought, but doesn´t the none-general Warpseer break the Eshin Allegiance ?

@AliKing Rangeltoft is correct, this is illegal unless you make the Warpseer General.

[Primes]

Hello everyone,

could someone please post the endless spell heavy list which got 2nd  at BOBO (Player is named Dan afaik)? I would also very much appreciate a description of your game plan when piloting such an unusual list.

@GwendarYou seem to be planning a similar list. I would love to hear your opinion or first experiences.

Thanks a lot!

Edited May 26, 2019 by Primes

[Gwendar]

@Primes I believe he took this, assuming he didn't change it beforehand: https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/summon-the-lads-we-going-in/

I haven't been able to play around with it yet as I'm participating in an escalation league so all my hobby time is going to playing\painting my FeC. Considering it did well, I would say it is relatively strong.. but probably not top tier by any means. Magic denial will severely hurt the list.

[Coyote]

Question on Endless Spells - I know each wizard is limited to casting only one per turn...

Is limitation a Wizard at 1 per turn, or is it the PLAYER can only cast 1 per turn?

Same question for dispelling Endless Spells - 1 per turn per Wizard or Player?

Last, Dispelling my own Endless Spell - I still have to roll to dispel using my one chance per turn?

Gracias, I swear I’m not plotting against you hat you know of.

[Saodexan]

30 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Question on Endless Spells - I know each wizard is limited to casting only one per turn...

Is limitation a Wizard at 1 per turn, or is it the PLAYER can only cast 1 per turn?

Same question for dispelling Endless Spells - 1 per turn per Wizard or Player?

Last, Dispelling my own Endless Spell - I still have to roll to dispel using my one chance per turn?

Gracias, I swear I’m not plotting against you hat you know of.

1) It's 1 per Wizard, not player. You can try to cast 4 endless spells per turn if you have 4 wizards.
2) Yes same as casting, each wizard can try to dispel 1 endless at the start of the hero phase.
3) Yes you use your dispel and roll for it. Endless spells are neutral, it's nobody spells.

[Coyote]

Thanks, I grow smarter at the cost of your taking time to answer me.

 I am an energy vampire Skaven 😁

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Okay folks, I'm liking the Jezzails. We all know that their warscroll is great, not to mention they're cheap as dirt. However, I've finally put two and two together and by golly it equals 13! So I've been playing a lot of the new armies such as Gitzs and Beastmen and was constantly reminded that the new trend right now is -1 to hit all over the place. Very commonly its easy to get -2 to hit on some heroes, heck, we rats can do it accidentally with the 'lead from the back' trait. Now way back when, when warscrolls were being stripped of their 6+ triggered effects and replaced with the Nat6's, everyone was like "woe is me" *dramatic pause*. 

Just gonna say, I love missing my range attacks. I roll up with 6 Jezzails or *insert re-rolling to hit unit here* and love fishing for 6's. On average I'll be rolling 10 dice looking for those sweet 6's and that fact is severely underestimated by opponents who think they're giving you bad targets with better saves or debuffs and the like. 

We should all be used to something like this with the Vermy Corruptor and SOJ artifact were he wants to hit 6's and has a built-in re-roll ability. The funny thing is I actually think his 3+ to hit is a huge detriment to what you're trying to do. Keep this in mind with other units out there that you discounted because you think you can't rely on the Nat6 triggers. I personally will be taking another look at our Stormfiends again and their shock gauntlets. Have fun. 

[Coyote]

Auto include for me - 

6 Jezzails

40 Plague Monks 

Grey Seer

[Skreech Verminking]

Auto include for me,

Clanrats!😜

 

[michu]

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Auto include for me,

Clanrats!😜

 

Don't forget about

more Clanrats!

[Skreech Verminking]

40 minutes ago, michu said:

Don't forget about

more Clanrats!

We could literally keep going😂😉

[Saodexan]

10 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

We should all be used to something like this with the Vermy Corruptor and SOJ artifact were he wants to hit 6's and has a built-in re-roll ability. The funny thing is I actually think his 3+ to hit is a huge detriment to what you're trying to do. Keep this in mind with other units out there that you discounted because you think you can't rely on the Nat6 triggers. I personally will be taking another look at our Stormfiends again and their shock gauntlets. Have fun. 

You can reroll succesful hit too if you only want to fish for 6's. And you should totally try Stormfiends with shock gauntlets, they are the best melee option by far ! 

[Darkhan]

Warp lightning vortex, unmodified roll of 6, D6 mortal wounds.

Have I seriously missed this? Or did we just get a secret buff?;p

Double checked, I have missed out on this:x

Edited May 27, 2019 by Darkhan

[frostfire]

Got a start collecting box for winning a local tournament so I want to start a Skaven army.

I know that everything in the box is sweet and what should I purchase next?

Currently considering 1-2 Verminlords and 80 clan rats. Are jezzails or Acolytes necessary? They seem pretty badass but also expansive in price anyway. Maybe Stormfiends can be a good replacement?

What do you think? Any advice is appreciated.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@frostfire Congrats! The start collecting Pestilens is secretly a great grab even for a mixed skaven army. I recommend keeping the Grey Seer off the bell and use it for one on foot. Now you have two Grey Seer units. Neat. Acolytes paired with any skrye hero can delete just about anything with warp tokens so don't count them useless. I've heard many times before here that the plague monks can be converted into acolytes quite easily. That said plague monks are ungodly for their points so keeping them that way would be best. 

Verminlords are pretty solid. Warpseer is just an easy inclusion into any list, most opponents will complain that he's unkillable and broken but honestly isn't what wins you games. The real spice is the Corruptor with Sword of Judgement realm artifact. Everyone else here knows what I'm talkin' about. Personally, I play verminous heavily so I go with Warbringer. I magnetized one of mine so I can have all of them anyways. 

Disclaimer: You picked a difficult army to start with. About 1/2 of the army are old models and hard to find. All of skryre and pestilens are easy to go with first. Clanrats are everywhere so a good investment is at least 120 (if you play casually, you can proxy them as any battleline to maximize fun and playtesting). 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Uh I've been looking at our allies list. Lightbulb: we just need our general to be pestilens and not be a pestilens allegience. Can't we just take Nurgle-marked units in a mixed skaven list so long as the general is pestilens?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Can't we just take Nurgle-marked units in a mixed skaven list so long as the general is pestilens?

Yep that should work.

edit: afterall everything that’s has the nurgle keyword (or can take iit) can basically be taken as allies for a skaventide army

Edited May 28, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[frostfire]

@Riff_Raff_RascalThanks for all the tips!But there is one thing I couldn't understand. Doesn't the SOJ inflict MWs only to HEROES or MONSTER? How does it become killy anyway?