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I really wanna knowhow the math on WLC vs Jezzails. 

I got a 1000 list to make in a Coop match. I Play with dok so the idea is that i supply the ranged and mw from spells. 

So far i got a Skyre list with 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc. I could go another doomwheel of some Jezzails. However the points dont match Up as i would like 6 Jezzails and the list then comes to 1060. 

 

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1 hour ago, Kimhot said:

I really wanna knowhow the math on WLC vs Jezzails. 

I got a 1000 list to make in a Coop match. I Play with dok so the idea is that i supply the ranged and mw from spells. 

So far i got a Skyre list with 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc. I could go another doomwheel of some Jezzails. However the points dont match Up as i would like 6 Jezzails and the list then comes to 1060. 

 

Happy to oblige, but giving average output for a wlc is not quite comparable, as it is very swingy. That said:

on average, a WLC will do 3.5 (mortal) wounds a turn. With a spark, this is 7 mw. With mmwl (its own ability) as well that’s 14 mw, but you’re gonna break your cannon in (on average) 2 shots. No command traits/artefacts will help.

A single jezzail (when not moving) will average just over 1 wound a turn. (1 and 1/9). Before any saves, but includes the possibility of mortals). With a spark, this is 1 and 1/2. With an injector as well, it’s 1 and 7/9, but you’re losing a jezzail a turn. With mmwp as well it’s 2 and 5/36 (say 2 and 1/7) wounds a turn each, but now you’re losing 2 jezzail a turn as well (though you can move again!).

now a wlc is 180 points, and jezzail are 140 for 3. So closest comparison is 4 jezzail for every 1 wlc. 

Without any buffs, that’s 3.5 wlc vs 4.45 jezzails (though some can be saved at -2 rend; e.g. against 4+ save, this is approximately 4 wounds). So unbuffed and unsparked the jezzails look slightly better in most cases. Once you spark them, the wlc starts to pull ahead quickly.

On max power (all possible buffs) both units will destroy themselves within 2 turns. But the wlc will deliver 28 mortal wounds, the jezzails about 12 and a 1/2 wounds (some mortal).

Note that these are averages, as I said at the start, the WLC is more swingy than jezzails. However, the max damage output of 4 jezzails fully buffed in one turn is 12 wounds (18 over the two turns that 4 would wipe themselves out) whereas the max output of a wlc is 56 mortal a turn (112 over the two turns it wipes itself out). Unlikely, but it’s there!

 

Hope that helps. In terms of your list, if you already have 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc, I think I’d simply go with another wlc. If the exercise is to squeeze the jezzails in, I’d either drop a bombardier, or restart ;) 

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56 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Happy to oblige, but giving average output for a wlc is not quite comparable, as it is very swingy. That said:

on average, a WLC will do 3.5 (mortal) wounds a turn. With a spark, this is 7 mw. With mmwl (its own ability) as well that’s 14 mw, but you’re gonna break your cannon in (on average) 2 shots. No command traits/artefacts will help.

A single jezzail (when not moving) will average just over 1 wound a turn. (1 and 1/9). Before any saves, but includes the possibility of mortals). With a spark, this is 1 and 1/2. With an injector as well, it’s 1 and 7/9, but you’re losing a jezzail a turn. With mmwp as well it’s 2 and 5/36 (say 2 and 1/7) wounds a turn each, but now you’re losing 2 jezzail a turn as well (though you can move again!).

now a wlc is 180 points, and jezzail are 140 for 3. So closest comparison is 4 jezzail for every 1 wlc. 

Without any buffs, that’s 3.5 wlc vs 4.45 jezzails (though some can be saved at -2 rend; e.g. against 4+ save, this is approximately 4 wounds). So unbuffed and unsparked the jezzails look slightly better in most cases. Once you spark them, the wlc starts to pull ahead quickly.

On max power (all possible buffs) both units will destroy themselves within 2 turns. But the wlc will deliver 28 mortal wounds, the jezzails about 12 and a 1/2 wounds (some mortal).

Note that these are averages, as I said at the start, the WLC is more swingy than jezzails. However, the max damage output of 4 jezzails fully buffed in one turn is 12 wounds (18 over the two turns that 4 would wipe themselves out) whereas the max output of a wlc is 56 mortal a turn (112 over the two turns it wipes itself out). Unlikely, but it’s there!

 

Hope that helps. In terms of your list, if you already have 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc, I think I’d simply go with another wlc. If the exercise is to squeeze the jezzails in, I’d either drop a bombardier, or restart ;) 

30

What do you mean when advising to increase the WLC Damage with a Spark. I was under the impression, that Sparks only increase the damage characteristic of weapons. Something that the WLC and Warpfire are lacking..

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Primes said:

What do you mean when advising to increase the WLC Damage with a Spark. I was under the impression, that Sparks only increase the damage characteristic of weapons. Something that the WLC and Warpfire are lacking..

Hmm, I think I have confused the damage characteristic of the melee attack on the wlc when doing the calculation. You’re right, in that you can’t spark the mw of the cannon (I made the assumption correctly when calculating the jezzails, in that a natural 6 would only cause 2 mw, not 2+1). In which case halve the numbers for the wlc after the initial calculation, and you have:

unbuffed: 3.5

mmwl: 7, but suffers average of 4 wounds a turn

over 2 turns, 14 mw destroying itself.

max output 28 wounds a turn, 56 over 2 turns.

That does look more sensible, good catch!

so the wlc is better when overpowered than jezzails with full buffs, but they will kill themselves quickly. Interestingly, that changes the position when jezzails are just sparked, in that 4 sparked jezzails will do around 6 wounds against save 4+, whereas unbuffed wlc will do 3.5 on average. The deviation is different, in that a wlc will be more likely to do more and less.

The choice I think comes down to how prepared you are to overcharge and burn your own units down. Burst damage, the wlc is still better over 2 turns, but sustained, the jezzails are probably better.

Edited by Baron Wastelands

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6 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Have also been thinking about WLC vs. Jezzails and have decided to give the Jezzails a bash, so gonna try this out. MMWP for Jezzails with the injector if needed, I didn’t see the point in Deranged Inventor as Jezzails already have this innately but maybe I’m missing something. Jezzails in a 2x20 Clanrat sandwich. Death Frenzy on Monks and the Seer 3-dicing WLV. Am a bit worried about lack of high-wound heroes but I’ll give it a go, any ideas appreciated. 

Well, you really just take deranged inventor as "backup" for when MMMWP gets unbound (yes, it's only hits and not wounds but it's still good for the Acolytes) or if you want to teleport the Jezzails through a gnawhole/reposition them with movement. This would give them back their rerolling hits for free. 

I like the list though. I've been worried about my own for lack of heroes but considering my local meta has 2 Khorne players who will be trying out the new book at the tournament this month... I'd rather have more shooting over magic anyway. 

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17 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Hi guys, there has been a few great third party miniature designers lately.

for example there has been a great Modellen skaven clawlord miniature that might come soon.

so yeah hier it is hope you all like itE5B31EDC-0086-4BE4-91FF-D10740B04651.jpeg.0d0d77c32f103c2a4ce07b5f3fd2eceb.jpeg

sure the bonebracker May have lost its existence, but this model could be a great representation of a clawlord on Brood horror, just put it on a bigger base, and voila your much better looking clawlord on Brood horror.

also for those who are interested, can give their own ideas up for which model could be designed next.

hiers the link:

 

Looks amazing, is it just a concept atm or can you actually buy it?

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2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Hmm, I think I have confused the damage characteristic of the melee attack on the wlc when doing the calculation. You’re right, in that you can’t spark the mw of the cannon (I made the assumption correctly when calculating the jezzails, in that a natural 6 would only cause 2 mw, not 2+1). In which case halve the numbers for the wlc after the initial calculation, and you have:

unbuffed: 3.5

mmwl: 7, but suffers average of 4 wounds a turn

over 2 turns, 14 mw destroying itself.

max output 28 wounds a turn, 56 over 2 turns.

That does look more sensible, good catch!

so the wlc is better when overpowered than jezzails with full buffs, but they will kill themselves quickly. Interestingly, that changes the position when jezzails are just sparked, in that 4 sparked jezzails will do around 6 wounds against save 4+, whereas unbuffed wlc will do 3.5 on average. The deviation is different, in that a wlc will be more likely to do more and less.

The choice I think comes down to how prepared you are to overcharge and burn your own units down. Burst damage, the wlc is still better over 2 turns, but sustained, the jezzails are probably better.

Legend for doing the maths. I think I’ve become a bit jaded with the swingyness of the WLCs and am craving some (relative) reliability, and that extra 6 inches will be huge (ooh-er). 

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Are you sure the Damage is 3,5 for the wlc unbuffed? Since It is not "just" 1d6 you have the chance og getting 0 mw (you roll a 6 with the first dice and then 0 6 with your next)

Therefore there are 7 outcomes and not 6 as normal. Without having done the math i Think the Damage is lower 

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1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I think I’ve become a bit jaded with the swingyness of the WLCs

This is pretty much my reason for switching which is funny considering at least once per game I find that I roll a 1 for my PL. There is some merit to WLC's of course, but anytime I run 1, I always run 2. Same with jezzails in that I typically only run 9 but 6 can work.

I think one big factor is if you anticipate a lot of -1's to hit and whether or not that will really affect your results.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Kimhot said:

Are you sure the Damage is 3,5 for the wlc unbuffed? Since It is not "just" 1d6 you have the chance og getting 0 mw (you roll a 6 with the first dice and then 0 6 with your next)

Therefore there are 7 outcomes and not 6 as normal. Without having done the math i Think the Damage is lower 

You essentially have to do averages of averages. If you roll a 1, you will average (well, you will get!) 6 mortal wounds. If you roll a 6, you will average 1 mw (I.e. you will roll one 6 in 6 dice on average). There are way more than 6 outcomes, but 6 average outcomes corresponding with the first d6 roll.

That’s why the average is 3.5, but also why you have a higher probability of high or low damage. (E.g. the probability of getting max output of 6 mw is 1 in 6 - not bad odds. If you mmwl, the odds of max 12 mw is still 1 in 6 because of the peculiarity of the way damage is calculated. The chance of 0 mws is different.)

MAX output is however 12 mw in one turn, which I didn’t adjust above! Grrr, give me back hit and wound rolls!  So 12 in one turn, 24 over 2 turns while it destroys itself.  Compared to 12 (vs 4+ Sv) in one turn for 4 max power jezzails, 18 over 2 turns, while they destroy themselves too.

Edited by Baron Wastelands
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1 hour ago, Kimhot said:

Are you sure the Damage is 3,5 for the wlc unbuffed? Since It is not "just" 1d6 you have the chance og getting 0 mw (you roll a 6 with the first dice and then 0 6 with your next)

Therefore there are 7 outcomes and not 6 as normal. Without having done the math i Think the Damage is lower 

The average is 3.5

 

If you break down all the instances as if you were making attack rolls. 

 

If you roll a 6 its as if you were throw 6 attacks hitting only on 6s, or hitting 1/6th the time.

6*1/6=1

If you roll a 5 its as if you were throw 6 attacks hitting only on 5s, or hitting 2 in 6 times. 

6*2/6=2

 

4 is 6 attacks hitting on 4s

6*3/6. Or 6/2=3

 

A 3 roll

 

6*4/6=4

A 2 roll

6*5/6=5

 

And a 1 is just 6 mortals

Or 6

Add it all up and you get 21.

Averaging all 6 of those possibilitys you get an average of 3.5. 

 

Its because if you roll a 2 while you can roll 0 damage you have a high likely hood of rolling 6 damage as well. So while 0 damage is possible  its never 100% garenteed so its not truely a 7th option if you try to simplify the damage down to that of a simple d6 roll. 

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Question about death frenzy. Do you do your death frenzy pile in attacks in between weapon profiles or wait until all the units attacks are spent?

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Posted (edited)

I was considering using a Verminlord Corruptor but reading his abilities I felt like I would be "That Guy" for even placing him on the table!  Does anyone else think the "Dreaded Plague" spell he has needs to be rebalanced?  Here's my thoughts on the problem and the solution:

PROBLEM: 

The spell isn't that difficult to get off, has a not bad range of 13 inches and can be buffed easily to go off on a 4 or 5+ on a 2d6. It does a number of wounds equal to 50 percent of the target unit size on average.  So it does an average of 20 instant wounds in one cast against a unit of 40, does an average of THIRTY wounds in one cast against a unit of 60, 40 against 80?

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with punishing large mobs but 20-40 instant wounds for one spell cast at a decent range seems a little much.  Especially because the spell is even still pretty good against small units (Being able to do 5 mortal wounds against a unit of 10  means there's no downside to bringing this spell).

SOLUTION?

I feel like it should be re-tuned so that first the "dreaded" version of the "plague" spell does the same amount of wounds as the regular "plague" spell, which is much more balanced, but instead add other benefits for the dreaded version.  The regular "plague" spell does a number of wounds equal to 33 percent of the target unit size.  On average it would do 3 wounds against a small unit of 10, 7 wounds against a unit of 20, 13 wounds against a unit of 40, 20 wounds against a unit of 60.  These wound numbers seem much more balanced considering the corruptor is very strong already at only 260 points for reasons other than this spell (look at the rest of his warscroll!).  I think the "dreaded" version of the spell could instead add another minor debuff, such as: -1 to run/charge, or -1 to save rolls as they are in poor health from the plague.  For the health of the game it seems better to avoid doing flat-up insane numbers of mortal wounds and instead augment gameplay with other modifiers.  Especially because of his point price!  What do you think??

Edited by Zanzou

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8 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

For the health of the game it seems better to avoid doing flat-up insane numbers of mortal wounds and instead augment gameplay with other modifiers.  Especially because of his point price!  What do you think??

I think we can all safely say that GW is largely increasing the power levels of armies on average and I doubt anything will get much of a tone down. We also have Warpfire Throwers on an 8" range that can do largely the same amount of MW's, although it can be harder to pull off. Bottom line, Skaven have been a counter to the current horde meta and we do very well against single targets\elites as well thanks to Jezzails and WLC's. There's absolutely nothing wrong with changing up the meta by introducing an army that can counter the current fotm's.

We have our own counters, but MW spam is becoming very much a thing across almost all armies. We still have a ton of tomes coming out by the end of the year along with the newest GHB so I expect quite a lot of armies to get brought up to the same level of ridiculousness rather than anyone getting brought down.

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1 hour ago, Zanzou said:

Does anyone else think the "Dreaded Plague" spell he has needs to be rebalanced?  Here's my thoughts on the problem and the solution:

No because several spells exist in this game that are this stromg and have since 1.0. The gaunt summoner and drycha have already had spells like this. The mushroomcloud from grots also exist. All do something like this. The only power creep part is that it doesnt take into account the actual # of models in range of your model, but that is off set by the lower 13" range of the spell. 

 

I think evey book that comes out people argue power creep is a thing, and maybe to some extent they are right that there is some. However seraphon, blade of khorne (pre new book), tzneetch, sylvaneth and other armies having ~54% win rates and high 5 game win rates shows that old armies are still very relavent. Heck FEC won LVO before there new book came out and the guy that ran that list won several others last year. 

 

Really the only bad armies are KO and BCR at the moment. 

 

MW spam isn't really an issue, it's a gimmick that some armies have. A gimmick that get's hard counter by hordes in most cases, and only in edge cases like the corruptor, gaunt summoner, drycha, muchroom cloud, and i think 1 other do you have anti horde mortal wound spells. However these spells are countered by elite armies. 

 

Honestly AoS is stupidly spell balanced right now from a competive seen, and on a casual since balance issues only exist due to lack of communication and list tailoring. 

 

If you bring a corrupting and fight stormcast you definitly won't feel like that guy. 

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4 hours ago, Verminlord said:

Question about death frenzy. Do you do your death frenzy pile in attacks in between weapon profiles or wait until all the units attacks are spent?

You allocate wounds once all attacks have been done by a unit. So your opponent attacks with all his attacks and you do your save for each weapon and model. Then you allocate wounds. 

 

Also wounds are allocated one at a time. Meaning each model piles in and attacks 1 at a time. So watch your correncing. If you are doing a whole unit of death frenzy make sure you show that you are removing model in such a order that all your attacks are legal. 

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1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

No because several spells exist in this game that are this stromg and have since 1.0. The gaunt summoner and drycha have already had spells like this. The mushroomcloud from grots also exist. All do something like this. The only power creep part is that it doesnt take into account the actual # of models in range of your model, but that is off set by the lower 13" range of the spell. 

 

I think evey book that comes out people argue power creep is a thing, and maybe to some extent they are right that there is some. However seraphon, blade of khorne (pre new book), tzneetch, sylvaneth and other armies having ~54% win rates and high 5 game win rates shows that old armies are still very relavent. Heck FEC won LVO before there new book came out and the guy that ran that list won several others last year. 

 

Really the only bad armies are KO and BCR at the moment. 

 

MW spam isn't really an issue, it's a gimmick that some armies have. A gimmick that get's hard counter by hordes in most cases, and only in edge cases like the corruptor, gaunt summoner, drycha, muchroom cloud, and i think 1 other do you have anti horde mortal wound spells. However these spells are countered by elite armies. 

 

Honestly AoS is stupidly spell balanced right now from a competive seen, and on a casual since balance issues only exist due to lack of communication and list tailoring. 

 

If you bring a corrupting and fight stormcast you definitly won't feel like that guy. 

You're right, I hadn't fully read drycha's swarm ability before now.  Yikes.  It still seems so weird to me that these units can do so much for such little points (verminlords also have amazing defence and great offensive attacks), and if the issue with insane MW count spells is that widespread, then that would be an issue with AoS as a whole now, definitely not just the corruptor... point taken.

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If you really hate hordes, you could even run a VLC in a nurgle army and give him the Pestilent Breath trait for even more mortal wound fun (it's a quasi-shooting attack that deals a mortal wound on a 5+ against a unit for every model within 6".)

Of course then its a nurgle army, not a skaven army.

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6 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

If you really hate hordes

My vote goes to Thanquol with 2 or 4 Warpfire + an extra 2-3 Warpfire Thrower teams. Pretty hilarious watching a unit of 60 Grots\30 Witches get roasted into oblivion from 1 shooting phase.

Hell, throw in a Corrupter and Grey Seer with Plague for even more shenanigans.

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2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

My vote goes to Thanquol with 2 or 4 Warpfire + an extra 2-3 Warpfire Thrower teams. Pretty hilarious watching a unit of 60 Grots\30 Witches get roasted into oblivion from 1 shooting phase.

Hell, throw in a Corrupter and Grey Seer with Plague for even more shenanigans.

Thanquol himself could even take plague! And cast it with +2 to cast if hes not hurt!

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Anyone noticed that Clawlord on Broodhorror and Warpgnaw have had their pitched battle points revised down to 160pts and 260pts on the Azyr app? Is this official and does that make them worth it now?

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39 minutes ago, Jasonleehj said:

Anyone noticed that Clawlord on Broodhorror and Warpgnaw have had their pitched battle points revised down to 160pts and 260pts on the Azyr app? Is this official and does that make them worth it now?

Warpgnaw isn't worth as much anymore in my opinion. Something can be said about his 5 damage hits, but if you really want an assassin I would with either a Deceiver (for the 6" Skitterleap) or Corrupter (with or without SoJ). Who know's, maybe he is worth it but I haven't seen anyone really mention him much anymore, let alone take one in a list.

Clawlord on BH still seems great for the points as it can stay alive a little longer + heal. Not to mention stack his version of Gnash-Gnaw on a single unit I believe.

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4 hours ago, Zanzou said:

You're right, I hadn't fully read drycha's swarm ability before now.  Yikes.  It still seems so weird to me that these units can do so much for such little points (verminlords also have amazing defence and great offensive attacks), and if the issue with insane MW count spells is that widespread, then that would be an issue with AoS as a whole now, definitely not just the corruptor... point taken.

Drycha can pretty freely telaport around the map, wounds on 3+. fires in the shooting phase meaning she has an effective 19" range,  doesn't have to cast about a 50/50 chance of using the ability in the first place. She's had that since 1.0 and sylvaneth never really stole the meta, even when they were the only people with books. 

Some armies have insane mortal wound spam. However, i think where the game is at now that isn't an issue. MOrtal wound spam tends to be the most target specific kind of damage. It's either good against characters/elites or good against hordes with no real middle ground. Meaning every mortal wound spam unit you take is a unit that will either be really useful in your game or next to useless. 

Also i'd say spam is a strong word general mortal wounds in armies are used stratgicly to get past some key weakness your army has, and most damage comes from melee attacks. Comparatively in the meta and in the scope of good things in the game. I'd say there isn't enough mortal wounds in the game.  Look at heavy skyre list and even those will rely heavily on acolytes and plague monks to for a bulk of thier work force damage. Otherwise you simply won't be able to deal with enemy horde units at all. 

Which is why i go back to my comment before. In a meta mortal wounds are just fine. Where it could be an issue is casual play and then it's not that mortal wounds are bad, but it's more and issue of your gaming group either list tailoring or not talking to each other about what kind of game you want to play. 

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Hello guys, i wanna try to play this list at the final italian chaos league gt....

it is a heavy fire list, some screen and a warpseer for command ability and tankyness. The gray seer all time try di cast vortex with 3 dice, and skitterleap the warpseer to catch some obj. MMMWP all time go on doomwheel (or jezzail if necessary), and i have 3 ratling that can reroll hits with warlock trait, making 2 damage with warpstone buff. I have a lot of antihorde fire (ratlings and flamers) and a good snipe choise with jezzail. And doomwheel can shot a bit, and try to rish obj. What do u think about that?

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS

Grey Seer (120) - Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap

Verminlord Warpseer (260) - Artefact : Suspicious Stone

Warlock Bombardier (100) - General - Command Trait : Overseer of Destruction - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

WAR MACHINES

Doomwheel (160)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Soulsnare Shackles (20) Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 126 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 1/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

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55 minutes ago, Pestilens said:

Hello guys, i wanna try to play this list at the final italian chaos league gt....

it is a heavy fire list, some screen and a warpseer for command ability and tankyness. The gray seer all time try di cast vortex with 3 dice, and skitterleap the warpseer to catch some obj. MMMWP all time go on doomwheel (or jezzail if necessary), and i have 3 ratling that can reroll hits with warlock trait, making 2 damage with warpstone buff. I have a lot of antihorde fire (ratlings and flamers) and a good snipe choise with jezzail. And doomwheel can shot a bit, and try to rish obj. What do u think about that?

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS

Grey Seer (120) - Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap

Verminlord Warpseer (260) - Artefact : Suspicious Stone

Warlock Bombardier (100) - General - Command Trait : Overseer of Destruction - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

WAR MACHINES

Doomwheel (160)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Soulsnare Shackles (20) Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 126 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 1/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

You might want to sneak in a 3rd 20 man rat unit. Also the warpseer command ability tends to be less useful if you only have 20 man blocks of rats, and most armies will have a few units that will just blow right threw 20 blocks of rats. 

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