AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Tell me more how far did those Witch Aelves move per turn🤑

Not very.. Most of the game I stayed around 12-16" in my deployment with Clanrats screens. He maybe got about 2-3 movement phases out of them, but with WLV preventing them from running, there wasn't much hope for them.

The fact that WLV covers such a large area is one of it's biggest bonuses.. not just the damage.

[mmimzie]

1 minute ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’m glad my tzeentch army doesn’t need to charge lol 

i agree. I love my tzeentch army. that said warp gale is pretty big on  a  lord of change who wants to  be mobile, and locking down an LoC and taking most the board with 160 clan rats, things start to get pretty bad for the summoning dependent tzeentch. 

 

Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Low drops = big bops

i normally run lists msu and try to make a playstyle that doesn’t care what the turn order it is. But it does make sense for most armies to make buffs efficient by running one or two large threats

I mean it's the meta right?? big units  of witch Aelves, big units of evocators, 12-9man morrsarr guard in a single units, tzeentch with a unit of 9 enlightend,  It's the meta, even 2 plague monk squads in an army are vulnerable to this sort of tactic. 

 

 

1 minute ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I wish shackles couldn’t just be dispelled on the opponents turn haha! Perhaps this is a case of too many debuffs? Maybe spreading them out among more units would be more effective 

 

8 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Shackles + WLV.

i don't rate shackles so much, it is great they need to waste a spell to to try and stop it, and the extra chip damage is nice. That said i prefer vermintide that basicly does the same thing in many cases. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Just now, Gwendar said:

True, and they still do reasonable damage regardless. Of course, if I want more utility I usually go with Skitterleap and teleport an Engineer next to a WLC who went through a gnawhole to get a nice overcharge shot on something hiding.

Nah, but hopefully you know better than to clump your stuff together or WLV will shred everything to pieces.

I’d actually prefer if you did that! Summoning a billion blues  well still keeping my pinks alive (and easily dispelling your vortex when I don’t like it no more with the right relic and stuff) would increase my overall ranged damage and mortal wound threat for mid game. I also screen with marauder units to keep melee off my pinks so placing the vortex would be more difficult then normal 😆 but yeah if I clumped together that’s could hurt 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Gwendar said:

Not very.. Most of the game I stayed around 12-16" in my deployment with Clanrats screens. He maybe got about 2-3 movement phases out of them, but with WLV preventing them from running, there wasn't much hope for them.

The fact that WLV covers such a large area is one of it's biggest bonuses.. not just the damage.

Well thanks for the answer, that really helps me a bit for the next tournament I’m taking apart on 

 

[mmimzie]

Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’d actually prefer if you did that! Summoning a billion blues  well still keeping my pinks alive (and easily dispelling your vortex when I don’t like it no more with the right relic and stuff) would increase my overall ranged damage and mortal wound threat for mid game. I also screen with marauder units to keep melee off my pinks so placing the vortex would be more difficult then normal 😆 but yeah if I clumped together that’s could hurt 

yeah tzneetch grows quickly under such chip damage. That's thier kind of game. 

tzneetch you need to kill the characters to win, and most of them chill in the back

Edited April 1, 2019 by mmimzie

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

i agree. I love my tzeentch army. that said warp gale is pretty big on  a  lord of change who wants to  be mobile, and locking down an LoC and taking most the board with 160 clan rats, things start to get pretty bad for the summoning dependent tzeentch. 

 

I mean it's the meta right?? big units  of witch Aelves, big units of evocators, 12-9man morrsarr guard in a single units, tzeentch with a unit of 9 enlightend,  It's the meta, even 2 plague monk squads in an army are vulnerable to this sort of tactic. 

 

 

 

i don't rate shackles so much, it is great they need to waste a spell to to try and stop it, and the extra chip damage is nice. That said i prefer vermintide that basicly does the same thing in many cases. 

That’s is true!  Weird question but can you use spell portal to increase the effective range of shackles? Would be an interesting first turn play

[mmimzie]

Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

That’s is true!  Weird question but can you use spell portal to increase the effective range of shackles? Would be an interesting first turn play

there is no way to change the range of endless spells out side of i think one stormcast eternal character that has a command ability for it. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

yeah tzneetch grows quickly under such chip damage. That's thier kind of game. 

tzneetch you need to kill the characters to win, and most of them chill in the back

I try run as many marauders and arcanites as possible and focus on pinks for my casters so I can protect my main character with the look out sir spell and circumvent the weakness to melee (somewhat) and not relying on heroes as much (although I love running the magister as if he dies I don’t really care, but if he makes one annoying spawn that ruins a charge he makes his points back in one turn!)

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

4 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

there is no way to change the range of endless spells out side of i think one stormcast eternal character that has a command ability for it. 

Putting it thru the portal isn’t changing the actual range of the spell itself tho just casting it thru the portal, so it doesn’t circumvent that?

[mmimzie]

Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Putting it thru the portal isn’t changing the actual range of the spell itself tho just casting it thru the portal, so it doesn’t circumvent that?

still doesn't work this is all in the FAQ of malign sorcerys. 

[Gwendar]

12 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’d actually prefer if you did that! Summoning a billion blues  well still keeping my pinks alive (and easily dispelling your vortex when I don’t like it no more with the right relic and stuff) would increase my overall ranged damage and mortal wound threat for mid game. I also screen with marauder units to keep melee off my pinks so placing the vortex would be more difficult then normal 😆 but yeah if I clumped together that’s could hurt 

I typically don't center my WLV around chaff\pinks in my games against Tzeentch. I specifically set them up to hit as many Heroes as possible and WLC's or Jezzails take care of the rest. I've never had an issue placing a WLV against anything so far since their bases are so small and they cover such a wide area.

12 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well thanks for the answer, that really helps me a bit for the next tournament I’m taking apart on 

As @mmimzie said, I would take Vermintide over Shackles every time if you can spare the points. Most of my lists only have room for 20 points however, and this is why I take Shackles in place of Vermintide.

[mmimzie]

2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

20 points

curse those 20pts

[Gwendar]

4 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

curse those 20pts

That said, with my most recent list, I could easily just drop my 30 Acolytes down to 25 and have enough to bring Vermintide instead...

May be worth trying next tournament at the end of the month, especially when so many local armies are pretty combat heavy and that would be a nice holdup.

[Num]

How does the WLV+shackle+warpgale combo work exactly?

It halves run and charge rolls, but the movement remains the same except for the shackles, right? So they can still walk out of it 6" or so at a time?

[Gwendar]

9 minutes ago, Num said:

How does the WLV+shackle+warpgale combo work exactly?

It halves run and charge rolls, but the movement remains the same except for the shackles, right? So they can still walk out of it 6" or so at a time?

Yep, but  shackles has over 50% chance (math is correct, right?) to make that 6" movement a 3" and with every WLV node having a 6" range that goes off EVERY movement phase... it adds up quite quickly. Things typically get whittled down before they can actually walk out of range of them if you place even 1-2 nodes within range of a unit.

Some pages back someone calculated the minimum amount of movement needed to get completely out of range depending on placement\if shackles were involved. The good thing about using Vermintide in place of Shackles is just in the fear of taking more MW's and the fact it's a large base that can potentially block off more movement than Shackles can actually take away on it's 3+.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Gwendar
spelling, clarifications mostly

[gronnelg]

24 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

That said, with my most recent list, I could easily just drop my 30 Acolytes down to 25 and have enough to bring Vermintide instead...

May be worth trying next tournament at the end of the month, especially when so many local armies are pretty combat heavy and that would be a nice holdup.

So such big units of acolytes work out well? 

[Gwendar]

5 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

So such big units of acolytes work out well? 

If I recall, 30 against a unit of 10+ (for the +1 to hit) buffed with MMMWP is ~30-33 damage against 4+ save and against a unit of less than 10+ it's ~25-28.

Of course that's without using warpstone to give them all d3+1 damage a piece.

[Navezof]

So, I played against some nurgles stuff and it didn't turn that well. I won't do a full battle report because it was a few days ago and it was mostly a game for fun. Nevertheless some highlights and teachings.

Spoiler

 

My list

• Arch-Warlock
• Warlock Bombardier
• Warlock Engineer
   
• 40x clanrats
• 20x clanrats
   
• 3x Stormfiends
• 2x Warpfire thrower
   
• Doomwheel
• Warplighning cannon

 

 

1. Don't go on your own.

Doomwheel ran off on her own at the start of my turn (I rolled 21" movement!). I though it was a good idea to go there and threw a little ligthning bolt. Then I was charged by nurgling stuff and their tentacles. The rest happened pretty much like in some weird hentai.

 

2. Clanrats are bad at killing stuff, on the other hand they are very good at dying.

 One group of 40 did their job, which is mostly dying against 5 other dudes while doing some scratch on them. Behind them the warpfire thrower were distributing their stuff like it was some cosmopolitan spiced with some not very licit substance.

The other group of 20, nicknamed the "Blue of Auvergne" (they have some blue in their color scheme) spent the entire game hitting and then dying against three slimes. Lame.

 

3. More more more warpower is awesome.

The Warplock Bombardier was overdosing the whole game. Either munching on warpstone token like crazy or removing the safety of his rockets, or even sharing a line or two of magical green powder to the trio of stormfiend nearby. He also made a warplighning cannon blow up after its second shot, so, children, remember, everything in moderation.

Anyway, with the effect of the spell, the stormfiend were killing it like the typical Brandon at the high school prom'. Ratling gunning the crowd of nurgles while re-rolling hits and wounds felt good.

 

4. Warpfire is like beer, the bigger the target, the less likely he is to fall, kinda…

The two warpfire thrower team were lucky, but mostly sad. The good news is: they didn't blow up by themselves. The bad is, they didn't manage to do a lot of damage, too few model to affect, even with the overcharge they were disapointing to say the least.

 

5. When overcharging is not a good idea…

The archwarlock was doing his job, as usual, stormlightning storm to the left, storm lightning to the right. Then he had the brilliant idea to overcharge, when he saw the roll of the dice, he knew. He f*cked up.

 

In the end it was a fun game and I managed to nearly accomplish my second objective : blow half of my army with misfire and overcharge.

Next time, I'll bring less clanrats, more stormfiends, more shooty or killy stuff and use even more-more warpstone.

 

[Gwendar]

@Navezof Thanks for the write up, we have a local player currently building Nurgle so I'll be curious to play them. One thing to note, your list is illegal for matched play, if you were doing matched play points that is. If you have an Arch Warlock or Engineer as your General, your only battleline options are Stormfiends and Acolytes. Taking Clanrats will break that and you must take 3x20 minimum to satisfy battleline requirements.

Some other things:

1. I wouldn't say going on your own with a Doomwheel is wrong necessarily. The Doomwheel is somewhat fragile but I thing it can do well being supported or unsupported.. just with the latter you have to choose your targets carefully, IE roll it up to squishy targets that it can take easily and that put out low threat of being counter-charged.
    
2.  Clanrats can be decent at 40 with swords, especially when buffed by a Clawlord, more so with Death Frenzy cast on them to punish whoever killed them. That said, I don't see that as their main purpose; don't expect them to do much other than gracefully cap objectives and you won't be disappointed. 40 really is the best way to go, but 20 can have a purpose as a backline screen or home objective camper.
    
3. Nothing really to say here other than I appreciate anyone who uses MMMWP + Warpstone on Stormfiends. Try it on a big unit of 6-9 and revel in the tears of your enemies for them getting too close.
    
4. I've mostly stopped taking Warpfire throwers. Damage output has been decent but anyone with a shred of shooting will focus them before they can do anything from my experience... except in my games against DoK, they really do well at roasting Witches that charge the poor Clanrats.
    
5. I think many of seldom Overcharge the Skryre spells anymore due to the fact that unbinds now cause them to explode. Granted, if you get Warplightning Shield off first or only have a couple of wounds left.. you may as well just cash out of the warp-casino.

Of course if your objective is to blow everything (including yourself) up then ignore all of that and get to OD'ing and exploding.

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Of course if your objective is to blow everything (including yourself) up then ignore all of that and get to OD'ing and exploding.

You know me too well my backstabbing friend

[Donut Assassin]

Back from adepticon with my rats. Think I did well with my rats. It became a 5 way tie in overall score for 1st place Best Overall. Ended up taking Best General Chaos and another Skaven player took 2nd place Best Overall. Fun times!

[Xelotath]

So if you have a brick of 40 plague monks, with no buffs are you better off with blades or woe staves?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Xelotath said:

So if you have a brick of 40 plague monks, with no buffs are you better off with blades or woe staves?

Blades 

[Navezof]

17 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@Navezof Thanks for the write up, we have a local player currently building Nurgle so I'll be curious to play them. One thing to note, your list is illegal for matched play, if you were doing matched play points that is. If you have an Arch Warlock or Engineer as your General, your only battleline options are Stormfiends and Acolytes. Taking Clanrats will break that and you must take 3x20 minimum to satisfy battleline requirements.

Some other things:

1. I wouldn't say going on your own with a Doomwheel is wrong necessarily. The Doomwheel is somewhat fragile but I thing it can do well being supported or unsupported.. just with the latter you have to choose your targets carefully, IE roll it up to squishy targets that it can take easily and that put out low threat of being counter-charged.
    
2.  Clanrats can be decent at 40 with swords, especially when buffed by a Clawlord, more so with Death Frenzy cast on them to punish whoever killed them. That said, I don't see that as their main purpose; don't expect them to do much other than gracefully cap objectives and you won't be disappointed. 40 really is the best way to go, but 20 can have a purpose as a backline screen or home objective camper.
    
3. Nothing really to say here other than I appreciate anyone who uses MMMWP + Warpstone on Stormfiends. Try it on a big unit of 6-9 and revel in the tears of your enemies for them getting too close.
    
4. I've mostly stopped taking Warpfire throwers. Damage output has been decent but anyone with a shred of shooting will focus them before they can do anything from my experience... except in my games against DoK, they really do well at roasting Witches that charge the poor Clanrats.
    
5. I think many of seldom Overcharge the Skryre spells anymore due to the fact that unbinds now cause them to explode. Granted, if you get Warplightning Shield off first or only have a couple of wounds left.. you may as well just cash out of the warp-casino.

Of course if your objective is to blow everything (including yourself) up then ignore all of that and get to OD'ing and exploding.

Hey @Gwendar thanks for your comment, my list was probably not that legal, but it was a match for fun we both didn't really care that much. We had approximately the same points on each side and no cheezy tactics. 

I will definitively reiterate the mmwp+warpstone+stormfiend combo, with even more rats!

In any case, thanks again!

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Navezof said:

Hey @Gwendar thanks for your comment, my list was probably not that legal, but it was a match for fun we both didn't really care that much. We had approximately the same points on each side and no cheezy tactics. 

I will definitively reiterate the mmwp+warpstone+stormfiend combo, with even more rats!

In any case, thanks again!

Yeah that's what I assumed, but just wanted to make sure as there were a few people around here confused about the way our battleline worked now (or straight up just refusing to obey the new rules and were still allying them in as previous...). Still, can't wait to hear back how a bigger unit of Stormfiends does. I plan to try out a list with 9 Stormfiends, 30 Acolytes and 9 Jezzails just for the hell of it.