AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Baron Wastelands]

3 hours ago, Nikobot said:

the giant rats are nothing but wounds now, id recommend some smaller units as speed humps/screen 

I don’t entirely agree with this - giant rats are actually quite handy in large units. Because they’re skaventide units, they benefit from overwhelming mass (and strength in numbers). Meaning you have 40 models with a 3” range (better than clanrats) hitting on 3+ (2+ with a Master moulder nearby/in the middle) and wounding on 4+, for 200 points. (Average of 17 wounds before saves with a moulder, 13 without - and it’s not that hard to get them all in range to attack because of the extra reach). Bravery is 11 (14 with a moulder) reducing by 2 for every full 10 that are wiped out.

Moreover, with the right general or battalion, the whole unit can come back on a 4+ when destroyed!

2 units of that are certainly better than 3x20 clanrats just to fill your battleline, in an otherwise moulder list, and will contest objectives better than rat ogres. Smaller units of rats have their uses too, of course, but since bodies count for objectives, I wouldn’t leave moulder-nest-home without at least one large unit.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[basement dweller]

2 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

I don’t entirely agree with this - giant rats are actually quite handy in large units. Because they’re skaventide units, they benefit from overwhelming mass (and strength in numbers). Meaning you have 40 models with a 3” range (better than clanrats) hitting on 3+ (2+ with a Master moulder nearby/in the middle) and wounding on 4+, for 200 points. (Average of 17 wounds before saves with a moulder, 13 without - and it’s not that hard to get them all in range to attack because of the extra reach).

2 units of that are certainly better than 3x20 clanrats just to fill your battleline, in an otherwise moulder list. Smaller units have their uses too, of course, but since bodies count for objectives, I wouldn’t leave moulder-nest-home without at least one large unit.

This was my thinking...so i could run one unit of 40 and 4 × 10...but i like the idea of having 2 big units as then i can use them for multiple objectives...and not let my opponent focus one one.

What are the thoughts on a verminlorfd warpseer for moulder?  Could use him instead of a bell for a little more punch and somd magic....

[Baron Wastelands]

11 minutes ago, basement dweller said:

What are the thoughts on a verminlorfd warpseer for moulder?  Could use him instead of a bell for a little more punch and somd magic....

Warpgale is a nice spell, and the extra command points can come in handy (so you always have one or two in hand for unleash more-more beasts). However, you have to have him as your general, and personally I think Hordemaster is too good to pass up on a Moulder general. Unless you take fleshmeld menagerie, of course.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[basement dweller]

4 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Warpgale is a nice spell, and the extra command points can come in handy (so you always have one or two in hand for unleash more-more beasts). However, you have to have him as your general, and personally I think Hordemaster is too good to pass up on a Moulder general. Unless you take fleshmeld menagerie, of course.

I was planning on the menagerie...but could go with hordemaster instead.  I like the extra artifact but dont have a lot of resiliant heroes so maybe i wont get the most value out of it...

[kenshin620]

I think a grey seer with death frenzy and skaven brew would be hilarious on giant rats.

Probably the most unnecessary combo of a masterclan general in moulder, but seems like a one turn wonder fun.

[basement dweller]

So after some consideration, im still going full moulder but going with the following list:

Warpseer vermonlord

Master moulder

Master moulder

40 giant rats

40 giant rats

10 giant rats

6 rat ogres

2 rat ogres

Hellpit abomination

Hellpit abomination

3 packmasters

Fleshmeld menagerie

 

The 10 giant rats and 2 rat ogres are kinda extra...holding objectives and or screening.  Could swap the rat ogres for rat wolves...or both for rat swarms...or endless spells.   With only 1 caster, endless spells seem a bit risky.  Struggling with the lack of magic in moulder and so feel i have to take 1...dont want my opponent having complete magic control.

Breaking my own rule with a second abom...but feels like a must in a moulder list to cash in on the moulder rules.  

I thought about breaking up the giant rats into smaller units...but with the bravery boost and the attack bonuses for big units, im leaning towards big units.

Rabid crown seems like the best (only good?) Artifact for moulder.  Skaven brew or suspicious stone seem like the best choices for the verminlord.

No guns seems crazy for a skaven list, but it looks fun on paper...

[kenshin620]

16 minutes ago, basement dweller said:

Rabid crown seems like the best (only good?) Artifact for moulder. 

 

Yea that is the problem with a lot of artifacts, they have to make so many to complete each table so it seems like a lot of them are made just for the sake of making them (like SCE, so it's no wonder that a decent amount of them never see the light of day)

Like Foulhide seems good....if you actually had a Moulder hero with more than 5 wounds and a 5+ save! Like if there was a Master Moulder on a Bonebreaker Rat Ogre, then we're talking.

Plus Rabid Crown is a great "always on" force multiplier, as compared to Lash of Fangs which is super situational and you really dont want the Master Moulder in close combat!

Edited April 1, 2019 by kenshin620

[basement dweller]

11 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Yea that is the problem with a lot of artifacts, they have to make so many to complete each table so it seems like a lot of them are made just for the sake of making them (like SCE, so it's no wonder that a decent amount of them never see the light of day)

Like Foulhide seems good....if you actually had a Moulder hero with more than 5 wounds and a 5+ save! Like if there was a Master Moulder on a Bonebreaker Rat Ogre, then we're talking.

Plus Rabid Crown is a great "always on" force multiplier, as compared to Lash of Fangs which is super situational and you really dont want the Master Moulder in close combat!

A big(er) moulder hero would be nice...make the hand to hand artefacts potentially useful.  Dont think that will be happening anytime soon...so its rabid crown and/or realm artefacts i guess.  The doppleganger cloak seems like a great one for models you dont want fighting anyways...

Edited April 1, 2019 by basement dweller

[Baron Wastelands]

1 hour ago, basement dweller said:

A big(er) moulder hero would be nice...make the hand to hand artefacts potentially useful.  Dont think that will be happening anytime soon...so its rabid crown and/or realm artefacts i guess.  The doppleganger cloak seems like a great one for models you dont want fighting anyways...

Doppelgänger cloak has been errata’d to be once per game, so less useful. Rabid Crown is absolutely the way to go, turns a Master Moulder into a locus of buffs!

[Asamu]

13 hours ago, gronnelg said:

What do you think about this list? Any tactical pointers will be appreciated.

Not much else you can do with that model selection list wise. It's not ideal, but you should still be able to win games with smart play.

Screen for with the clanrats; just get the unit as wide as possible to cover the most area. and put your shooting behind it. Keep the monks protected as well if you can, and try to get a charge off when they're buffed by the furnace. 

Take more-more-more warp power on the Warlock engineer.

For the artefact, I'd go with a Suspicious stone on the warpseer for the 4+/5++/5++, Vigordust injector on the engineer for +1 to hit with the stormfiends, or the Liber Bubonicus on the furnace to double prayer the monks so they can do more damage on the charge. The Plague furnace and Warpseer command ability already give battleshock immunity. Suspicious stone is going to be the most reliably good choice.

Bring Warpgale instead of plague on the Grey Seer; cutting enemy charge rolls in half is extremely powerful, and you can cast it turn 1 with the balewind from outside of dispel range. Now you can do it twice on different units, or do both on one unit to reduce their charge roll by 3/4 (Halved twice - this needs an FAQ; currently, I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed) to make a 3" charge a 12" charge and do d3+ d6 mortal wounds. If the enemy list only has 2 main threats, this lets you dedicate everything else on one of them.

 

Aside from that, it's going to be about target priority and objectives you don't have a ton of bodies, so controlling movement with your spells (Warpgale, Dreaded Warpgale, the Warp Lightning Vortex, and Vermintide) and killing off the main damage threats with shooting are going to be key. You can put out a lot of mortal wounds to pick off key heroes with the warp lightning cannons.

What are the stormfiends equipped with? Ratling Cannons, Shock Gauntlets, and Windlaunchers are probably best (windlaunchers because the range lets you do some damage turn 1; warpfire projectors are better if you can get at least ~10 models in range, so if you're expecting to play against DoK, you'd probably want them instead). The 3 Stormvermins buffed with a spark (+1 damage w/ shooting), More-more-more warp power (re-roll hits and wounds),  and a vigordust injector (+1 to hit/charge) put out ~22 damage with their shooting on average with that set up, and you can do it twice if they don't take damage beforehand. If you take windlaunchers, you probably want that one to be the first to die.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Asamu

[gronnelg]

@Asamu Thanks for the pointer! Warpgale it is! My list is rather magic heavy, which is why I thought  Master of Magic was a good trait for the grey seer. But making the warpseer more durable is better you think?

The stormfiends are equiped with warpfire, shock guantlet, and warpgrinder. So I was going to burrow them, for some backfield harassment. Nice quipment outfit of the warlock. I was thinking that more more more warp power was a bit unrealiable to get of with the high casting value?
Thanks for your help!

[Darkhan]

Hey peeps, another noob question to the experienced players:)

I noticed people taking more more warp power spell, for each warlock engineer. Say you have 3 engineers, they take 3 more more warp power spells, 1 for each engi.

Is this allowed? I thought you could only pick one spell for each of the 3 skryre spells.

[Skreech Verminking]

30 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Hey peeps, another noob question to the experienced players:)

I noticed people taking more more warp power spell, for each warlock engineer. Say you have 3 engineers, they take 3 more more warp power spells, 1 for each engi.

Is this allowed? I thought you could only pick one spell for each of the 3 skryre spells.

Nah you can literally just pick the same spell for each wizard in your army.

just remeber that casting a spell can only be attempted ones.

Although there are exceptions like the big toad guy from the seraphons who can cast his spell 3times in the same phase or our warlocks who are able to cast the warplightning spell multiple times 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[mmimzie]

So double wrap gale is gross. Warp snuff sickness levels of gross. 

If you are halfing charges twice that means you have to have a charge roll of 12" to.make a 3" charge.  As it doesnt say round up. Now getting both gales off on the same target is tough, but still ouch. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

8 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

So double wrap gale is gross. Warp snuff sickness levels of gross. 

If you are halfing charges twice that means you have to have a charge roll of 12" to.make a 3" charge.  As it doesnt say round up. Now getting both gales off on the same target is tough, but still ouch. 

Are our using a relic or a trait to cast twice? I thought warp gale was a spell, wouldn’t that mean you can only cast it once

[mmimzie]

14 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Are our using a relic or a trait to cast twice? I thought warp gale was a spell, wouldn’t that mean you can only cast it once

The warpseer warp gale and the grey seer spell lore gale are two different spells because one is "dreaded warpgale" and the other is just Warpgale. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

3 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

The warpseer warp gale and the grey seer spell lore gale are two different spells because one is "dreaded warpgale" and the other is just Warpgale. 

I know nothing if it isn’t pestilens hahaha

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

So double wrap gale is gross. Warp snuff sickness levels of gross. 

If you are halfing charges twice that means you have to have a charge roll of 12" to.make a 3" charge.  As it doesnt say round up. Now getting both gales off on the same target is tough, but still ouch. 

I did this against a DoK player along with Shackles + WLV.

It was pretty hilarious to watch a unit of 30 Witches sit 5" away and never make a charge for 2 rounds before being zapped\burned to death. This has become my favorite combo in all of AoS now, although it doesn't really make you any friends.

[mmimzie]

2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I did this against a DoK player along with Shackles + WLV.

It was pretty hilarious to watch a unit of 30 Witches sit 5" away and never make a charge for 2 rounds before being zapped\burned to death. This has become my favorite combo in all of AoS now, although it doesn't really make you any friends.

I mean it works well against a lot of the meta, where ALOT of list bring one or maaybe two really big threat units and then a bunch of supports. Being able to lock down 100% or 50% of thier power is pretty big, and could be meta shifting. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I did this against a DoK player along with Shackles + WLV.

It was pretty hilarious to watch a unit of 30 Witches sit 5" away and never make a charge for 2 rounds before being zapped\burned to death. This has become my favorite combo in all of AoS now, although it doesn't really make you any friends.

I’m glad my tzeentch army doesn’t need to charge lol 

[Skreech Verminking]

Mmh now that I’m thinking about it, how about a combination of Warpgale, dreaded Warpgale, warpstone vortex and shackles.

choose a unit for example 9Skullcrusher, who’ll now get their movement halved 4times while having the charged halved 3times and suffering, if your luck is high right now, d6+2d3 mortal wounds maybe even 2d6+2d3 mortal wounds depends how lucky you are.

but still a Skullcrushers unit that can only move a inch per turn sounds kinda crazy 😜.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

I mean it works well against a lot of the meta, where ALOT of list bring one or maaybe two really big threat units and then a bunch of supports. Being able to lock down 100% or 50% of thier power is pretty big, and could be meta shifting. 

Low drops = big bops

i normally run lists msu and try to make a playstyle that doesn’t care what the turn order it is. But it does make sense for most armies to make buffs efficient by running one or two large threats

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I did this against a DoK player along with Shackles + WLV.

It was pretty hilarious to watch a unit of 30 Witches sit 5" away and never make a charge for 2 rounds before being zapped\burned to death. This has become my favorite combo in all of AoS now, although it doesn't really make you any friends.

Tell me more how far did those Witch Aelves move per turn🤑

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Mmh now that I’m thinking about it, how about a combination of Warpgale, dreaded Warpgale, warpstone vortex and shackles.

choose a unit for example 9Skullcrusher, who’ll now get their movement halved 4times while having the charged halved 3times and suffering, if your luck is high right now, d6+2d3 mortal wounds maybe even 2d6+2d3 mortal wounds depends how lucky you are.

but still a Skullcrushers unit that can only move a inch per turn sounds kinda crazy 😜.

I wish shackles couldn’t just be dispelled on the opponents turn haha! Perhaps this is a case of too many debuffs? Maybe spreading them out among more units would be more effective 

[Gwendar]

Just now, mmimzie said:

I mean it works well against a lot of the meta, where ALOT of list bring one or maaybe two really big threat units and then a bunch of supports. Being able to lock down 100% or 50% of thier power is pretty big, and could be meta shifting. 

True, and they still do reasonable damage regardless. Of course, if I want more utility I usually go with Skitterleap and teleport an Engineer next to a WLC who went through a gnawhole to get a nice overcharge shot on something hiding.

3 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’m glad my tzeentch army doesn’t need to charge lol 

Nah, but hopefully you know better than to clump your stuff together or WLV will shred everything to pieces.