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Nope, only the Masterclan ones. On Warscroll Builder any hero can choose any I think, you just have to select the correct one for your hero’s keyword. 

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10 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I don't see them going down much. Stormvermin are already way better at killing than Bestigors, and only slightly more expensive per model.  They have a better attack profile thanks to the allegiance ability giving +1 to hit and wound in large units, and can get way more attacks from a unit thanks to 25mm bases and 2" reach allowing 3 ranks to attack.

I would pretty much echo what everyone else has said; they aren't comparable. I've played with Bestigors and you get a fast, hard-hitting unit when ran as a unit of 10, which most people do.

Stormvermin are only considered decent once you invest 500 points into them to run them in a block of 40. Of course when you Death Frenzy and buff them by other means.. sure, they're deadly, but that's a huge investment for a Death Star in my opinion.

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Regarding the Verminlords,  since there are 5 different ones, what do you guys do  if say you built it as Warpseer, but you want to take Verminking, do you just proxy the model? And build the one Vermindlord you think look the coolest? Rather not buy 5 Vermindlords😂

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Just now, Darkhan said:

Regarding the Verminlords,  since there are 5 different ones, what do you guys do  if say you built it as Warpseer, but you want to take Verminking, do you just proxy the model? And build the one Vermindlord you think look the coolest? Rather not buy 5 Vermindlords😂

Yes.

I even asked a few times at some tournaments in my local area, and they where totally fine with it beeing proxed as another Verminlord.

Not sure though if it would be the same at bigger events probably not 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

I would pretty much echo what everyone else has said; they aren't comparable. I've played with Bestigors and you get a fast, hard-hitting unit when ran as a unit of 10, which most people do.

Stormvermin are only considered decent once you invest 500 points into them to run them in a block of 40. Of course when you Death Frenzy and buff them by other means.. sure, they're deadly, but that's a huge investment for a Death Star in my opinion.

Should you not have to invest a big chunk of points for an army focusing deathstar unit?  

Edited by Laststand
Typo

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7 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes.

I even asked a few times at some tournaments in my local area, and they where totally fine with it beeing proxed as another Verminlord.

Not sure though if it would be the same at bigger events probably not 

 

to be honest I think most would be fine when it comes to something like Vermin lords. They might be more exacting if you took two in the same army, then I could see them wanting them officially armed. But if you've only got one then its pretty easy to spot. 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Laststand said:

Should you not have to invest a big chunk of points for an army focusing deathstar unit?  

I mean you don't have to invest in that many but I don't see Stormvermin worth taking unless you take 40 for the unit size bonuses and the fact that 2" range will let you get pretty much everything in which is insane with buffs.

If you want a cheaper deathstar unit then go with 40 Monks which is 260 points cheaper and will do more damage on average. If you're building a Verminous list and want to use Stormvermin then I say invest away. Even if you don't want Monks or Stormvermin, running 6+ Rat Ogres backed up by a Master Moulder isn't bad either.. but at that point I'd almost always rather take a HPA for 220 that doesn't need support.

Edited by Gwendar

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4 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:

Can Verminlord Masterclan heros take the Command Traits of any of the clans? The warscroll builder seems to think it works this way.

Also, was Verminlord Warpseer supposed to have the Clans Skryre keyword? All the other verminlord have one of the clans. 

They do all have a clan. Warpseer is masterclan. 

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Hi guys will be playing a game of aos 2000p, new khorne vs skaven.

So I myself will be bringing:

A Clawlord: 100p 

(with devious Adversary)

A Verminlord Warbringer:260p

(General; Brutal fury)

A screaming bell:200p

(suspicious stone; Deathfrenzy)

1Warlock bombardier:100p

2x40Clanrats:400p(battleline)

1x40Stormvermins:500p(battleline)

10Plague monks:70p

2warpfire thrower weapon teams:140p

1Warplightning cannon:180p

endless spells:

Soulsnare Shackles:20p

Pendelum:40p,

with me.

any suggestion or do you think I would be better of exchanging my wplc and the bombardier plus the endless spells with a hellpit abomination and some other hero or a few more meatshields?

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@Skreech Verminking I think if you actually manage to get off a WLV then that will do wonders for you... but with new Khorne you really need a reliable caster to get it off. It may just be better to bring the WLC (or2) to snipe priests or BT's. WLV also has the potential to hit your own units if you aren't careful with placement.. and that could be difficult when both of you will be playing combat oriented lists that will be smashed together. 

Also not sure the shackles will help much for the same reason. You're both going to be combat heavy and want to charge in; Shackles are just as likely to do something to you as they are to them.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

@Skreech Verminking I think if you actually manage to get off a WLV then that will do wonders for you... but with new Khorne you really need a reliable caster to get it off. It may just be better to bring the WLC (or2) to snipe priests or BT's. WLV also has the potential to hit your own units if you aren't careful with placement.. and that could be difficult when both of you will be playing combat oriented lists that will be smashed together. 

Also not sure the shackles will help much for the same reason. You're both going to be combat heavy and want to charge in; Shackles are just as likely to do something to you as they are to them.

Thanks for the feedback.

the reason why I’m taking shackles is to mostly try and hold his units of a bit, giving me a few more rounds of shooting and also securing one of the flanks if needed.

its more of a cheaper not so much damage dealing easier to cast warplightning vortex version.

The possibility of it not getting of or using it isn’t really that important to me, but I had around 20 points left and why not just go with the shackles.

Buut like you said it could fire backwards, buut then again I had those 20pomts left over so why not just  spend them anyways😂.

Who knows maybe they are still helpful or will even be used😉

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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Hi all

If you want to do the maths on which caster to pick (grey seer or other master clan versus arch warlord or warlock, which spells, which boost...) I have tried to do a small program: https://anydice.com/program/1442b

 

You can just change the parameters. "reroll under 8" is reroll everything under 8 (change 8 to the spell casting value). The "plus 2" is the cast modifier.

 

Here you see a comparison between a warlock near a gnawhole, a grey seer with master of magic near a gnawhole, and a grey seer consuming warpstone sparks, all trying to cast a WLV.
72% chances for both warlock/warlord and seer, and 68% chance with seer consuming sparks (as the roll can't be modified). The last one has a 25% risk of blowing up though...

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, mmimzie said:

They do all have a clan. Warpseer is masterclan. 

Yes but what I mean is Warlord is Verminus, Deceiver is Eshin, Corruptor is Pestilens so why wouldn't the last one be Skryre? Every other verminlord is dual clan is what Im getting at.

Edited by SleeperAgent

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In defence of stormvermin, there is a reason why plague monks were only taken in pestilens armies even when you could ally them in... a deathstar they are, but they make even skaven slaves look dangerous if they get counter attacked. They are a unit that makes most engagements whoever charged wins. A unit of 40 will die to concentrated anything, as stormvermin can actually take punishment. If taking this into account I would say they are about even. If you were up against anything with the ability to chaff you out then plague monks will all die... and the ability to take two monks for every stormvermin only help support before morale becomes a factor. 

Are storm vermin a bit pricey? Yes, are plague monks a bit indercosted? Also yes, but if you think one unit of plague monks will do the work of 500 points of stormvermin then certain lists will laugh it off. All in all I still think it’s a meta choice to be honest, whatever you are fighting will help you pick what works for you

 

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Okay  I've got a game on Saturday at my local games store against a guy who brings a huge khorne bloodthunder stampede. He's bringing about 30 bloodcrushers, a bloodthirster and a skullmaster? Any tips on how to deal with this monstrosity that deals mortal wounds on the charge with the following list? The only options I have available is to add in up to 2 doomwheels somewhere, I've also got a warpfire thrower team and a warp grinder team. 

Allegiance: Skaventide


LEADERS
Arch-Warlock (160) 
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact : Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (100) 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100) 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!


UNITS 
6 x Stormfiends (520)  2x shock gauntlets, 2x windlaunchers, 2x ratling cannons 
3 x Stormfiends (260)  1x doomflayer gauntlets, 1x grinderfist, 1x warpfire thrower
3 x Stormfiends (260)  1x Doomflayer Gauntlets,  1x ratling cannons, 1x warpfire thrower


WAR MACHINES 
Warp Lightning Cannon (180) 
Warp Lightning Cannon (180) 


ENDLESS SPELLS
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)


TOTAL: 1940/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 104
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 2/4

I suspect I'm screwed, but any tactical ideas would be nice? 

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3 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

A unit of 40 will die to concentrated anything

And it will smack whatever killed them right back if you put Death Frenzy on them, which you absolutely always should. Trust me I prefer Stormvermin but there's really not much of an argument right now when points are concerned. I could take 80 Monks for less than 40 Stormvermin and put out more damage and defensive capability. They really need a decrease and I'll gladly pick them up.

2 hours ago, Balloon Dwarf said:

I suspect I'm screwed, but any tactical ideas would be nice? 

Man, that's rough, but I think you're on track with the shooting. That said, if you had Clanrats I would advise somehow squeezing in 3x20 or more Clanrats to soak up the charges for a turn to potentially give you longer to shoot everything to death.. of course if you don't have those models, I can't say what I would change as I don't know that Doomwheels will help you much.

I'm not a fan of lifeswarm. You may be better served merging the Stormfiend units (for greater efficiency with your buffs) and dropping in 5 Acolytes to fill battleline. Of course if you don't have Acolytes either then I guess what you have is about as good as you can get. 

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26 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

And it will smack whatever killed them right back if you put Death Frenzy on them, which you absolutely always should. Trust me I prefer Stormvermin but there's really not much of an argument right now when points are concerned. I could take 80 Monks for less than 40 Stormvermin and put out more damage and defensive capability. They really need a decrease and I'll gladly pick them up.

 

Things that die easier get worse effects of morale, what I’m trying to say is some people don’t care about your Death Star. Plague monks already had all these tricks before the new codex. If you take monks then just remember that everything will feel like a Death Star vs them, it’s an all or nothing kind of deal. For instance FEC or death could set up a counter charge, wipe your unit and bring theirs back or in the case of FEC spawn more if needed and they won’t care about the loss of a unit. Storm vermin have the ability to take that initial attack in a lot of cases, they are also more valuable to regen abilities if you are into lifeswarm. 

And as a heavy tzeentch player myself I’m always careful not to rely on a single spell to beat counter attacks... maybe you play more casual games and that’s why you get away with one unit of plague monks, I know in casuals they are the end all be all of killers. 

Dont get me wrong they are definitely great and better then stormvermin, but don’t rely too heavily on Death Stars, especially footslogging ones without flying

that being said I welcome More pestilen use! Keep buying monks maybe GW will make me new updated kits!!!

i always could be completely wrong and maybe pestilens rules a few tourneys but they had all these tricks and weren’t common players before hand so I’m skeptical that their situation will change 

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6 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:

Yes but what I mean is Warlord is Verminus, Deceiver is Eshin, Corruptor is Pestilens so why wouldn't the last one be Skryre? Every other verminlord is dual clan is what Im getting at.

There are no duel clan verminlord any more the keywords were all changed. The warpseer is the only master clan vermin lord. Master clan is very much a clan. So i'd say you'd need another  skyre specific vermin lord. 

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@TheadTheOgorSlayer I'm making a case for others to use them, not myself. Battleshock really shouldn't be an issue for us anymore with the amount of CP we can generate and the multiple ways we have immunity from various units/bell spell. I don't use either unit and don't intend to as I place more value in chaff/spells/shooting and mobility. I have a mix of casual and competitive level people in my local meta so I get on just fine with most lists. 

If you're marching either up the board with no support and getting away with it, then yes, you're probably playing casual players. I think we've mostly been comparing raw potential than the inner workings of how to run either or.. That's another conversation in itself. Monks have only gotten better and we've only had a short amount of time for people to mess with different builds. 

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Anyone that have seen the list that got 3rd at the Adepticon Vanguard Tournament?

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Posted (edited)

So after a long time of waiting and scheming Queek Headtaker sends forth one of his mighty lieutenants to take-steal  a mighty artefact of power known as the dwarf gouger, should he fail, it might have been his last.

lets see-spie how things go tonight for our precious little pet-thing

Yes-yes.

may it bring glory to Mors!!

or Die-die utterly failing.

Lets scurry-send a Verminlord to protect-kill it if necessary!

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Num said:

68% chance with seer consuming sparks (as the roll can't be modified). The last one has a 25% risk of blowing up though...

This seems quite incorrect?? 

 

 

 

Its a 9.72% chance you explode?? Unless I'm completely missing what you are talking about.

 

 

Edited by mmimzie

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1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So after a long time of waiting and scheming Queek Headtaker sends forth one of his mighty Leutnants to take-steal what a mighty artefact of power known as the dwarf gouger, should he fail, it might have been his last.

lets see-spie how things go tonight for our precious little pet-thing

Yes-yes.

may be bring glory to Mors!!

or Die-Die utterly failing.

Lets scurry-send a Verminlord to protect-kill it if necessary!

 

Regarding your list above and specifically the WLV. If it is a competitive environment I would never leave home without it. If it's a non competitive environment I would not bring it. In my all my games it has been the single most over powered thing in the army. In my last game (new Khorne) it single handedly neutered his entire army. And yes, he had Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and the "auto unbind on a 8"-host. But he also (as most Khorne players will because of how their buffs work) centred most of his heroes and a few good units in one place. An ideal situation for the WLV. Especially since unbind range is 30" and the reach of the spell it's way more.  The Honest Wargamer rightfully dubbed it Warp Lightning Boretex because if cast in turn one at the right spot it can decide the entire game right there. In my case combined with a Jezzail shot he took 700 points off of the table. 

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Posted (edited)

Double post 

Edited by Pompe
Double post

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Pompe said:

Regarding your list above and specifically the WLV. If it is a competitive environment I would never leave home without it. If it's a non competitive environment I would not bring it. In my all my games it has been the single most over powered thing in the army. In my last game (new Khorne) it single handedly neutered his entire army. And yes, he had Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and the "auto unbind on a 8"-host. But he also (as most Khorne players will because of how their buffs work) centred most of his heroes and a few good units in one place. An ideal situation for the WLV. Especially since unbind range is 30" and the reach of the spell it's way more.  The Honest Wargamer rightfully dubbed it Warp Lightning Boretex because if cast in turn one at the right spot it can decide the entire game right there. In my case combined with a Jezzail shot he took 700 points off of the table. 

Thanks for the feedback.

well I guess you could say my opponents is more into the tournament environment, but since both of us got more or less new rules which we are very interested in trying out I chose to take something different then going out in heavy magic casting.

I’m still using 3wizards though which is for my taste already too much😂,

buut I really wanna see how that cannon will obliterate a unit of hero’s while exploding in a significant green flame.

the Stormvermins are meant to confuse my opponent, since he definitely won’t expect them, making it look like a mastermind who just can’t figure out that twisted, very twisted mind of mine.

the endless spells, don’t have any real purpose anyways.

Never  used them since magic manifestation never really was my thing, buut I guess with the book that came a few things changed for me, so O guess it’s time to try those endless spells out.

Im definitely keen on trying the Schackles and Warplightning vortex combination out, while shooting my foe to pieces with tones of warplightning cannons, while ripping them to shreds with rat ogors and tons of clanrats/Stormvermins/plague monks/giant rats/other meatshield units.

edit: the idea is to exploit every single way of using all of these units to their fullest.

I’m not interested in using one of the skaven meta list most tournament winning players have been using right now or in the future, it’s much more interesting to find something nobody ever thought would work, or even existed, while exploiting your own list that most befits yourselves.

It may sound like madness to you but, a twisted mind, working out the best ways, exploiting weaknesses, (while pledging yourselves fully to the great horned rats existence), is one of our most terrifying weapons we have in our arsenal.

I think there are soo many more combination people haven’t tried out, one of them beeing of course that 60clanrats and a thousand endless spells, the others not yet known but ready to be explored.

the one thing I will pledge myself to do, for eternity, unless my schoolwork  or those bazillions other hobby’s I have get in my way😅.

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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