AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Kramer]

40 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

With the exception of Nurgle for Pestilens, Skaven can only ally other SKAVENTIDE units. Why would you ally SKAVENTIDE when your whole army is already a Skaventide army? Well...

I wasn't asking about the reason. I get that. I was asking about where you see the proof that you can ally in SKAVENTIDE units? It feels to me people are looking for wiggle room to validate their hopes. We have a little box that says who you can ally with. It's the same for every faction since they changed the lay-out in GHB18. 

For Skaven is says, last page of the book. Keyword SKAVENTIDE can ally with NURGLE (only if general is CLANS PESTILENS). 
That's seems to be the beginning and end of the argument right? 

Again not looking to get into the argument of it. I just can't see the argument (nor the source of it.)

[bRock_320]

20 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Stormfiends, I love the miniatures. But any advice about magnetize them?

It's been a while since I did mine but I used a small drill and some magnets were the arms attached to the weapon.  Because I didn't want to mess with the tubes on the stormfiend with close combat options i used bits of sprue to extend the grinder fists and shock gauntlets so the armor part of the arms didn't need to be magnetized.

 

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, bRock_320 said:

It's been a while since I did mine but I used a small drill and some magnets were the arms attached to the weapon.  Because I didn't want to mess with the tubes on the stormfiend with close combat options i used bits of sprue to extend the grinder fists and shock gauntlets so the armor part of the arms didn't need to be magnetized.

 

Thats a brilliantly good idea to beef up The ogors. Not to mention adding diversity 

[Russrmc]

Regards Skaventide allying with themselves, Sadly, I dont think this is the case- there's a new way of presenting ally charts in the recent books...I checked my Nighthaunt book and the way the chart is presented in the skaven book is the same in nighthaunt- it lists the grand alliance, then lists the actual allegiance of the army being discussed then the allies in the next column, so you read the chart as 'chaos- skaventide: Allies- Nurgle' 

Also you can't seem to do it in the app either  

[Kirjava13]

Oh well, if that's the case then sod it.

(Still gonna take some Clanrats, but oh well.)

[Navezof]

23 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

I love the Doom-Flayer but I am extremely dubious about its ability to get anything done. I think it has the most dangerous overcharge conditions of any of the weapons teams, and its damage is mediocre. I was dreaming of them being turned into small units of mech-cavalry, but apparently GW prefers them this way...

The two WLCs will do good work for you, assuming the Horned One doesn't curse your dice. I would be wary of only taking three Jezzails- they won't do a vast amount of damage and their ability to take Skryre buffs is limited by the fact that there're only three of them, so using More-more-more Warp Power on them is a no-no as you could very well wipe out your own unit in the process. I would either take none or something stupid like nine, twelve even (assuming you have the models).

The Clanrats are only there to die-die, so don't trouble your whiskers over their soon-to-be-tragically-cut-short lives. They are, however, your best source of bodies to contest objectives, and you have no battleshock mitigation except for Inspiring Presence, so be a little more careful with them than you would be otherwise. Meanwhile, the Stormfiends, WLCs and weapons teams should be able to put a good amount of hurt out. Be sure to position your wizards carefully, as most spells we have access to are 18" range max. 

As much as it hurts me, I would say drop the Doom-Flayer and the Jezzails and get another Doomwheel or WLC for more-more damage, 40 Clanrats for more bodies/targets/shock absorbers, or even a Clawlord so you have something to buff the Clanrats and another Warlock Engineer so you can squirt mortal wounds in the hero phase like the Clanrats will be squirting the musk of fear!

Once again thanks to Kirjava13 for your help.

"I would be wary of only taking three Jezzails- they won't do a vast amount of damage and their ability to take Skryre buffs is limited by the fact that there're only three of them, so using More-more-more Warp Power on them is a no-no as you could very well wipe out your own unit in the process. I would either take none or something stupid like nine, twelve even (assuming you have the models)."

With 12 jezzails I can have the start of a warhammer 40k army

It's a shame I really like the look of the warplock jezzails models and when you do manage to kill some stuff it is rather refreshing to see. For the doom-flayer, well, I can't say I share your interest for them. Altough I picture perfectly a squadron of doom-flayer descending from the top of the hill toward pesky man-thing, led by the grey seer Gandratlf the Grey

I saw that the new skaven endless spell Warplightning storm was also a good pick, with correct damage and the ability to slow down enemies for the cannon to shot them down more easily, any opinion on that?

[5kaven5lave]

I’m gonna try and slot 9 into my list with 2 WLC and just try and blast everything off the board with Engineers and boosting them, should be a laugh (for me at least). 

[Alris]

Hi guys, simple question. Do you think this conversion of the old whfb v4 verminlord to be ok as warpseer in tournament ?

 

[Kramer]

46 minutes ago, Alris said:

Hi guys, simple question. Do you think this conversion of the old whfb v4 verminlord to be ok as warpseer in tournament ?

 

yes please! Really nice touch with the extra rats swarming around him! 

I would think so. It's a GW model, the equipment matches the warscroll, it''s immediately identifiable as a Verminlord. 

[Kirjava13]

Wow, that guy is all about Arm Day.

[Noit]

Allegiance: Skryre

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (260)

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520) (All Ranged)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

 

Pros:

More bodies,better objective holding and battleshock immunity

 

Cons:

A bit less shooting,less reliable casts without the Grey seer.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Noit

[Gdead909]

On 2/23/2019 at 11:20 AM, Ahriman said:

I'll preface this by saying I'm a narrative player really, and have never built super (or even close to!) optimised lists.

The Wolf Rats I love largely due to their speed. I use them to flank quickly and tie up artillery and shooting units, or kill a lonely wizard if possible. The immunity to battleshock is a god send for taking that return damage when out on their own.

 

As for the giant rats (@Baron Wastelands) i tried the large units of giant rats when i first started the army, and even with all their buffs found them underwhelming. The footprint of the unit was huge as well and I found they could get in the way of my heavier hitting units.

But with the units of 10 I find they're perfect for screening my Rat Ogors from charges, I can spread them out a lot more to prevent deepstrike shenanigans, and leave them on various objectives. 

The only time they get in combat is charging in with the Rat Ogors, at the opposite end of a unit, to restrict units pilling in and hurting the Ogors.

 

Hope that makes sense!

So thus is just theory crafting the moment for me but I really want to take a unit of 6 stormfiends in there and build them with the ranged options. Just whittling things down as it appraoches since HPA should be able to handle swarms.

[sorokyl]

I think what people hoping for Ally FAQ are missing:
Even if you could ally Skaveantide, and ally clan rats into your Skryre list, allies can not fill battleline slots. 
There is no FAQ that could make clanrats and Stormfiends battleline together. They'd have to errata the rules and change the "battleline if" requirements (invalidating what the battletome says) 

[bitchparty]

3 hours ago, Alris said:

Hi guys, simple question. Do you think this conversion of the old whfb v4 verminlord to be ok as warpseer in tournament ?

Just make sure he's about the same height as a current Verminlord for line of sight purposes and you're golden

[Overread]

36 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

I think what people hoping for Ally FAQ are missing:
Even if you could ally Skaveantide, and ally clan rats into your Skryre list, allies can not fill battleline slots. 
There is no FAQ that could make clanrats and Stormfiends battleline together. They'd have to errata the rules and change the "battleline if" requirements (invalidating what the battletome says) 

I don't think people are hoping for GW to change how allies work, they simply want to be able to take a Skyre army with something like Stormfiends as battleline whilst also having the option to draft 400 points (at 2K) of allies from other clans into their army. Eg they could take a Skyre army, get the battleline update and still just take clan rats as an allied unit; or take some grey seers etc... 

[Russrmc]

7 minutes ago, Overread said:

I don't think people are hoping for GW to change how allies work, they simply want to be able to take a Skyre army with something like Stormfiends as battleline whilst also having the option to draft 400 points (at 2K) of allies from other clans into their army. Eg they could take a Skyre army, get the battleline update and still just take clan rats as an allied unit; or take some grey seers etc... 

Exactly this, making skaven their own allies is a super elegant way of getting a system of limited clan cross pollination in place without it affecting the overall intent of the book. 

[Overread]

Even if they don't rule that they at least have to rule that allies dont' count toward battle-line army counts for the skaven armies; otherwise pestilens still can't take nurgle allies. Heck nor can any other dedicated clan. 

[AliKing]

So played my first game since the new book against beasts of chaos at shifting objectives (I think that's what it's called) Got a resounding win by the end of turn 3.

Nearly everything in the list performed. Darling guns with the buffs are ace. Screaming bell was more useful than I thought it would be. Clanrats do what clanrats do best still. Only things was plague monks never made it to combat so never got to try them out 😂 . The little buff to gutter runner throwing stars makes a nice difference for more reliable damage at range as well. Short range of spells can be a pain as well sometimes but beyond turn 1 think it's fine.

Overall army works really well, I think I need some practice using gnawholes but should come with more games easy enough.

Edited February 27, 2019 by AliKing

[Nevar]

Hey guys... my rat-madness has me second guessing my lists a bunch, and then changes came to the models I can expect to get soon.

A friend of mine is getting x3 Carrion Empire boxes, and I have been enlisted to help him sell off extra models, and do some conversions he wants done to his FEC army he will be getting in the end.  Turns out... Warp Lightning Cannons, Doomwheeels, and even the new Bomberdier are all going for around $18 on ebay these days, but Stormfiends are still worth a lot.  So... instead of getting a single skaven half of one of the boxes, I can choose out the skaven engines instead by not using any stormfiends as they cover the cost of two engines on their own more or less.

This means I am going to get my hands on x4 Warp Lightning Cannons and x2 Warlocks for effectively free.

That caused me to reevaluate my list, and I realized that even though I wanted to make Jezzails conversions, a Warp Lightning Cannon is more reliable even than the x6 Jezzails I was going to have in my army.  New list has come from the ashes of all these changes, is it madness?

SKAVENTIDE

Arch-Warlock:  Deranged Inventor, Esoteric Warp Resonator

Warlock Bombardier

Warlock Bombardier

Thanquol on Boneripper: x4 Warpfire Projectors

x20 Clanrats

x20 Clanrats

x20 Clanrats

x4 Warp Lightning Cannons

x2 Warpfire Throwers

Endless Spell:  Soulsnare Shackles

 

That is an even 2000 points.  My intention is to be a 'gunline' list, and my main opponents are Daughter of Khaine, and soon FEC.  I realized that we can use the 'Deranged Inventor' to make the Bombardiers much safer to use More-More Doomrocket! as getting double 1's is much less likely.  Obviously we will do it still, but it should be much less.  Likewise, the second Bombardier can use a Warpstone Spark to also reroll hits.  That means my x4 Lightning Cannons AND x2 Bombardiers are 'reliably' shooting a bunch of long range death, while wrapped in a furry clanrat shield.  Meanwhile the Warpfire Thrower teams lurk in the clanrats to melt enemy units once they are done polishing off the clanrats.  Likewise Thanqoul melts things and also beefs up the frontline.  I figure Bombardiers and Lightning Cannons can focus on things like Cauldrons of Blood, Zombie Dragons, or even support heroes or small elite unit... freeing up all of my glorious warp fire from Thanquol and the weapon teams to vaporize large horde units like Witches and Ghouls.

Is this madness?  And is there any reason to use Clans Skryre and Acolytes as battleline?  I was tempted because the poison wind globes are more dakka... but I would end up with less bodies.  That said... my intention is for the clanrats to die to clear a way for weapon teams anyways... I am not sure the extra bodies are worth the loss in dakka.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Nevar

[Skreech Verminking]

Hi there @Nevar your list really looks interesting. Although you seem to lack body’s. 

[Russrmc]

interesting heads up for those of a tournament mind- the great team behind the South Coast GT just confirmed that as far as they are concerned, if a battalion has pitched battle points, it is useable in matched play and at events- which is also GW's stance. Therefore the (much more viable) skryre formation  in the Carrion empire set is available for list building...

for those who have not seen it, it's found in the carrion empire booklet, requires you to take the box contents as a formation, costs 140 points and gives all models in the formation a 5+ death save for turn one, helping mitigate alpha strikes. More than that, it's an extra artefact and a much reduced drop number for getting that essential pew pew first turn priority.  

 

Consequently my list is now built around this formation and I am wondering the plausibility of taking it twice! It would cost about the same as  a warpcog convocation and is potentially way more useful to have this in your list twice...  it would look something like this and is a three drop list.

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Artefact:  Aetherquartz Brooch

Battleline
3 x Stormfiends (260)
3 x Stormfiends (260)
15 x Skryre Acolytes (180)

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)
Doomwheel (160)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Battalions
Skatchnik's Warpcoven (140)

Skatchnik's Warpcoven (140)


Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93

 

Not sure how viable it is tbh, I think you're better off only taking the formation once but it's an interesting exercise nonetheless. 

[Kraxriket]

About the doomwheel's new move characteristic, it says "you can reroll the 4d6 that determines its move characteristic. If you do and the roll contains any dice with an unmodified roll of 1 then your opponent carries out the normal move."

 

Does this mean i can reroll any one or more dice or do i have to reroll them all?

[Alris]

12 hours ago, bitchparty said:

Just make sure he's about the same height as a current Verminlord for line of sight purposes and you're golden

I have see no rule about line of sight in the starter rule but by the way here is a versus

Edited February 28, 2019 by Alris

[Alris]

Verminlord definitely spent lots of time in gym club since WHFB v6 ^^

[Ratcliff]

12 hours ago, bitchparty said:

Just make sure he's about the same height as a current Verminlord for line of sight purposes and you're golden

 

 

Don't think that would even matter tbh, it's a legit GW model, a tiny bit more height on the base and nobody can complain