AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

I was thinking of a verminous stormvermin deathstar list and got a thinking. Can I cast "Dreaded Death Frenzy" from a verminlord AND "Death Frenzy" from spell lore on the same unit for shenanigans? The wording for both is as follows:

Dreaded Death Frenzy: Dreaded Death Frenzy has a casting value of 7. If successfully cast, pick up to D3 friendly Skaventide units wholly within 13" of the caster and visible to them. Until your next hero phase, when a model from any of those units is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a pile-in move and then attack with all of the melee weapons it is armed with.

Death Frenzy: If successfully cast, pick 1 friendly Skaventide unit that is not a Hero, which is wholly within 13" of the caster and visible to them. Until your next Hero Phase, when a model from that unit is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a Pile-in move and then attack with all of the Melee weapons it is armed with.

From the Core Rules....

SLAIN MODELS
Once the number of wounds allocated to a model during the battle equals its Wounds characteristic, the model is slain. Place a slain model to one side – it is
removed from play.

Just curious. What do you fine folks think?

[tolstedt]

18 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I was thinking of a verminous stormvermin deathstar list and got a thinking. Can I cast "Dreaded Death Frenzy" from a verminlord AND "Death Frenzy" from spell lore on the same unit for shenanigans? The wording for both is as follows:

Dreaded Death Frenzy: Dreaded Death Frenzy has a casting value of 7. If successfully cast, pick up to D3 friendly Skaventide units wholly within 13" of the caster and visible to them. Until your next hero phase, when a model from any of those units is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a pile-in move and then attack with all of the melee weapons it is armed with.

 Death Frenzy: If successfully cast, pick 1 friendly Skaventide unit that is not a Hero, which is wholly within 13" of the caster and visible to them. Until your next Hero Phase, when a model from that unit is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a Pile-in move and then attack with all of the Melee weapons it is armed with.

 From the Core Rules....

SLAIN MODELS
Once the number of wounds allocated to a model during the battle equals its Wounds characteristic, the model is slain. Place a slain model to one side – it is
 removed from play.

 Just curious. What do you fine folks think?

I'm not sure.  Could go either way whether it stacks.  More more frenzy frenzy seems justified thematically.

[Vaeron]

It doesnt specify models must be removed immediately after the pile in, so I would say, since they are different spells, that the unit piles in, attacks, piles in, and attacks again.

[Kirjava13]

3 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Just curious. What do you fine folks think?

https://youtu.be/e7rgi8SzJqk

[Skavelynn]

Have any of you played with ratling gun teams yet? I used 3 in a 1250 pt game tonight, alongside a warlock general with the rerolling weapon teams trait. They're surprisingly very good with warpstone sparks, I nearly killed a unit of 5 evocators with 2 ratling guns focusing fire on them. The weapon teams did die fairly quickly when shot at but they were fairly easy to keep out of enemy range. Only one survived by the end of the game, no deaths from failed overcharges though! I'm not sure if stormfiends would be the better choice, but for their points I think ratling guns can still be good albeit a bit unreliable.

On a side note, my rat ogre pack and master moulder have been destroying everything in their path in lower pt games. Kill-crushing entire battleline units or heavily wounding elite/big heroes in one combat phase. I think 4+ rat ogres (I use 6) with master moulder or even packmasters are incredibly reliable and powerful, I recommend them to everyone. 😄

[Num]

1 hour ago, Skavelynn said:

Have any of you played with ratling gun teams yet? I used 3 in a 1250 pt game tonight, alongside a warlock general with the rerolling weapon teams trait. They're surprisingly very good with warpstone sparks, I nearly killed a unit of 5 evocators with 2 ratling guns focusing fire on them. The weapon teams did die fairly quickly when shot at but they were fairly easy to keep out of enemy range. Only one survived by the end of the game, no deaths from failed overcharges though! I'm not sure if stormfiends would be the better choice, but for their points I think ratling guns can still be good albeit a bit unreliable.

On a side note, my rat ogre pack and master moulder have been destroying everything in their path in lower pt games. Kill-crushing entire battleline units or heavily wounding elite/big heroes in one combat phase. I think 4+ rat ogres (I use 6) with master moulder or even packmasters are incredibly reliable and powerful, I recommend them to everyone. 😄

May I ask for your list please?

I want to fit rat ogora at 1k but somehow I'm hesitating because I feel it would be a waste to bring them alongside clanrats instead of in alongside giant rats in a moulder list. But then I get restricted to moulder and masterclan and can't bring skryre toys...

[Verminlord]

Wanted to share my warlock bombardier kitbash. Am I the only one who isn't a fan of the new model? 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Verminlord
Spelling

[Vaeron]

9 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

 

Can a non-Skaven allegiance army take Skaven Endless Spells?  Just checking, similar question for my Beasts of Chaos (like if an allied Tzaangor Shaman wants to make my Legion of Azgorh strike before their enemies by using the Wildfire Taurus).

Endless spells are not allegiance abilities,  just spell lores are.

[Num]

39 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

Wanted to share my warlock bombardier kitbash. Am I the only one who isn't a fan of the new model? 

Wow! May I ask for the recipe? What did you use for the wheelchair in particular? Amazing

[Verminlord]

2 minutes ago, Num said:

Wow! May I ask for the recipe? What did you use for the wheelchair in particular? Amazing

The chair and siding is from the doomwheel kit, the fuel tank/engine from the IoB warpfire thrower kit, the mini wheel from the IoB poison wind mortar kit, front wheels were some old goblin shields, the skaven rune from a clanrat banner and finally the rocket was built from some 40k tau bits. 🐀

[treeclimber]

15 hours ago, Jonko said:

First of all: hello all,  this was my first game with skaven including the new battletome and rules.

A quick overview of the battle: Skaven Skryre vs Tomb Kings.

 

List: (1750pt)

-Thanqoul and boneripper  - General - 2 warpfire/2 braziers - spell: wargale      
-Warlock engineer - artifact:  vigordust injector - spell: more more warp power!
-5 acolytes - battleline
-5 acolytes - battleline
-6 stormfiends - battleline - 2 rattlings/2 gascloud/2 doomflayer
-1 Warplightning cannon
-1 Doomwheel
-1 Rattling team
-1 Warpfire team
 endless spells:
-soulsnare shackles
-warp lightning vortex

I started the battleround and failed to put down soulsnare shackles (dispelled entire game mehhh) but could get my WL vortex in the game. I just want to say how insane this spell is, i complety wrecked his movement and ability to get closer the first turns becouse he could not run/fly and got some nice mortal wounds going from it aswell. (shame death has so many negates tho) warplighting  cannon was able to shoot some mortals with 12 dice but got 3 damage in return for overcharging.  
The tomb kings did not had allot to do this round couse of the vortex,  My engineer got some damage couse of an artifact but overal it was just shoots from my side.
When he finaly came closer i had already taken 3 objectives (of the 4) with run 6 from thanquols command abilty , he got rid of acolytes as they are pretty weak anyway but just fillers for battleline but once i started to fire rattlings the game was overr pretty fast. The 2 damage char. on 2x rattling stormfiends +vigurdust and a rattling weapon team did realy big damage. He charged and removed my WL cannon before i could fire it the second time but all was good since i got rid of is arkhan pretty fast. Also when i charged in with thanqoul and stormfiends i had loads of damage to do with both (flayers /brazers realy got some nice dmg off).
Warpfire team was asboluty insane doing 40 mortal wounds to his skeleton horde whiping it out in 1 turn , even with his negates. I think he needed to learn the hard way how the warpfire team works now.  The game practicly ended in turn 3 clipping him down and destroying both his big heroes arkhan and steed

Losses i had sufferd in the end, 2 stormfiends (gascloud), WL cannon, 5 acolytes, Rattling team. I was lucky on the turn roll tho!

 

So far what i think:

-Gascloud stormfiends are absolute not worth there cost unless you buff them with +hit/+wound or rerolls
-A block of 6 stormfiends is actualy realy good, flayers are realy good with charge +2/+3 , rattlings are insane if you buff them with a spark from a hero
-Vortex + Shackles is gonna ''be a thing'' especially if you have allot of shooting
-Warfire team is tricky but insane if you can get it in close range of hordes
-Realy fun how everything works with luck, big shots but damage on yourself, so think twice if you can possibly lose unit or not
-1 engineer was realy realy tricky, i got lucky he survived but that could make or break a game for you if you miss out buffs from sparks
-Thankquol is realy badass now with his spells and negates, makes him realy desirable if you wanna get that warp lightning vortex off with 3 dices!
-I used 1 gnawhole for +1casting in the  start (make sure you park your casters next to it in the start couse if you move there you got a chance to get mortal wounds!) 
-Wondering if stacking the gnawholes for more casting works? if so that might be realy good.


Working on 120 clanrats now to get painted to see what more i can do with other units of moulder and masterclan in a game.
 

 

cool fight! regarding gnawholes: they don’t stack but they can’t damage you either.  Skaventide units treat them as “arcane” and that rule says you get the casting buff while you are within ANY terrain with this feature, whereas none skaventide units treat them as deadly.

[5kaven5lave]

If they did stack that would be amazing. 

Skitterleap is the real deal by the way guys, tested it out for myself over the weekend and it’s super powerful. 

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

If they did stack that would be amazing. 

Skitterleap is the real deal by the way guys, tested it out for myself over the weekend and it’s super powerful. 

Good to know, thanks for sharing😁

[Jonko]

Oh nice i read it wrong then, thanks! 

[Num]

21 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

If they did stack that would be amazing. 

Skitterleap is the real deal by the way guys, tested it out for myself over the weekend and it’s super powerful. 

What do you use skitterleap for usually?

[5kaven5lave]

25 minutes ago, Num said:

What do you use skitterleap for usually?

The main ones:

Move yourself or another a hero on to an objective

Move yourself or another hero out of trouble / range of something

Move a hero into range to cast a spell / use an ability

 

Deployment and movement are so key, the ability to mix things up or correct your mistakes is huge. 

[5kaven5lave]

Multi-Verminlord list live on TheHonestWargamer Twitch stream now if anyone’s interested. 

[Gwendar]

Alright, so a quick batrep of the game against DoK I had yesterday playing Blood and Glory. Long story short, I only lost 3 Clanrats the entire game so... there's that.

My List

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valor
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Spell: Splinter
Grey Seer (120)
- Spell: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Spell: Warp Lightning Shield

40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

His List

Spoiler

Unsure of his traits\artefacts, he didn't use a temple either?

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
- General
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice

20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Balewind Vortex (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

T1
I let him go first and immediately drop down the Vortex once he moves everything closer and finally witness just what it can do. He clustered all of his heroes and a Witch Aelf unit right in the middle of the board so almost everything was in range of all 3 models for that tasty +2 to the roll. It did a lot when first cast, but on my movement phase when they went off again, only managed to do 1-2 MW's. I overcharged one of the cannons right away to take off ~6 wounds from the Cauldron and took 4 in return..not terrible.  Nothing spectacular aside from that.


T2
He breaks ties, dispells the WLV but failing to get off every spell he attempted and proceeds to move a little closer. He manages to buff up the center Witch unit.. but then fails a 5" twice. On my right side, he charges 20 unsupported Witches into the Clanrats and only manages to kill 3 and I manage to kill 3 in return.

My turn sees the WLV get thrown down again and his heroes continue to get annihilated by the thing. Shackles + Warpgale for good measure to ensure the Witches would never make that 5" charge. I run both small Clanrat units towards his 2 objectives, retreating with the right side as I'm sure the Warpfire thrower can finish off the 17 remaining Witches... And it does just that, leaving 2 to be battleshocked off the board. Left side warpfire + Thanquol manager to torch the center Witches down to 5.


T3
I get the double, dispell the Vortex and recast it and that pretty much seals the deal as the WLV ALONE is what ended up killing off all of his heroes throughout the game. I move my Clanrats onto his objectives and teleport a Cannon to the right side for extra support, but that was the end. He was going to concede anyway as his 10 Khinerai wouldn't have been able to push anything off an objective and that unmoved Witch unit in the back was out of range to properly do anything as well.


Final Thoughts
Again, I apologize for saying the WLV wasn't worth it on it's own. It's ABSOLUTELY worth it. On paper I see how most people may not think so, but when it's putting that damage out every movement phase and anytime it's cast is just crazy. Casting it with Thanquol near a Gnawhole pretty much guarantees it's going off short of your opponent having an auto-unbind. I originally was going to run 20 Gutter Runners but I'm glad I didn't to be honest as I think playing to our strengths of Magic + Shooting is potentially enough. Our ability to slowly grind down the enemy with MW's and then teleport\run\retreat clanrats (guaranteed 14" movement with At The Double) onto objectives when they're at their weakest is just... wonderful.

All that said, I will be trying another list using 4-6 Ogors + a Master Moulder just to see what it can do. I had been contemplating removing Thanquol in favor of a Screaming Bell + more Clanrats but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it. That casting bonus + rolling 3d6 is strong, although a Grey Seer on foot could do about as well, so we'll see. Oh yeah, and I will definitely be giving a 20-rat Acolyte bomb a go once I finish getting all the bits for conversion.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to trying out more list ideas... the DoK player could've done quite a few things better (like bringing down the Khinerai T1\T2, not letting the right side go unsupported when he had 3 Hag Queens, or moving the Witch unit not doing anything in his backfield) but I really am not sure what he could've done since I had so much anti-horde.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Gwendar

[Skreech Verminking]

Great battlereport there Gwendar.

😁👍🏻.

You definitely showed those aelve-things their place.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

So my storm-vermy deathstar list will be give a try this Wednesday.

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Verminlord Warbringer (260)
- General
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Brutal Fury
Verminlord Deceiver (300)

UNITS
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

TOTAL: 1940/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 162
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 0/400

The Goal: Stormvermin at 4 attacks each 3+/2+, RR 1's for Hit and Wound, Double Pile-in on death. I forgot to add battlebrew in but thats how I get the fourth attack. Not gonna lie, its tough to pull off but I need my friends to fear stormies at this point. If theres any additional thing to stormies we can add let me know.

[DaveMundo65]

16 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

So my storm-vermy deathstar list will be give a try this Wednesday.

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Verminlord Warbringer (260)
- General
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Brutal Fury
Verminlord Deceiver (300)

UNITS
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

TOTAL: 1940/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 162
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 0/400

The Goal: Stormvermin at 4 attacks each 3+/2+, RR 1's for Hit and Wound, Double Pile-in on death. I forgot to add battlebrew in but thats how I get the fourth attack. Not gonna lie, its tough to pull off but I need my friends to fear stormies at this point. If theres any additional thing to stormies we can add let me know.

Why the Deceiver over a Warpseer plus Warp Lightning Vortex? I'm pretty iffy on the Deceivers value at 300.

[Skavelynn]

11 hours ago, Num said:

May I ask for your list please?

I want to fit rat ogora at 1k but somehow I'm hesitating because I feel it would be a waste to bring them alongside clanrats instead of in alongside giant rats in a moulder list. But then I get restricted to moulder and masterclan and can't bring skryre toys...

For that 1250 game I used this list, for 1000 pts I usually have a grey seer instead of the arch warlock and use less ogres or guns, or replace the guns with something else entirely like a warp lightning cannon or plague monks:

LEADERS

Arch-Warlock (160) - General - Command Trait : Overseer of Destruction - Artefact : Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : Warp Lightning Shield

Master Moulder (100)

UNITS

40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Spear

40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Spear

6 x Rat Ogors (300)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

1 x Ratling Gun (80)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Bell of Doom (40)

 

It worked out pretty well (I found a use for the arch warlock!). Rat Ogres buffed by master moulder and vigordust injector making them hit on 2's, and the master moulder heals the d3 damage vigordust causes in the hero phase to the ogres. Ratling Guns gain rerolling hits and warpstone sparks' damage bonus from the arch warlock, who can use warp lightning shield to protect himself from any self-damage. Plus he has 2 spells so I can summon the bell of doom for battleshock immunity and still be able to cast another spell. Clanrats just do clanrat things 😆I'll be trying stormfiends instead of ratling guns in my next game, I think they'll survive better against teleporting stormcasts.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

1 hour ago, DaveMundo65 said:

Why the Deceiver over a Warpseer plus Warp Lightning Vortex? I'm pretty iffy on the Deceivers value at 300.

This list has two skitterleaps and two death frenzy spells available per turn. Built in redundancy is my response to the list not being entirely flexible otherwise. The skitterleap is for pinpoint deployment of my buffing heroes for the "wholly within" wording. The warpseer is good no doubt, but my monsters need to be aggressive early and it lacks both punch and mobility. Most importantly, I'm unsure how he helps with the deathstar strategy other than shock-proofing the 40 blocks. 

Warp lightning vortex was in my mind, especially putting it right on top of my stormvermin in combat so they die and pile in twice. Dirty. However, I couldn't squeeze the points. Potentially if I drop one of the verminlords or find I don't need the grinder team. 

[Russrmc]

Hey all, just a quick interjection to show an update on my acolyte and jezzail project! After a few test prints and adjustments in have now got the scale and design of the parts locked and am in the process of printing enough to build 45 acolytes and 6 jezzails... I apologise for my bad photography and hope to have better, painted examples sometime this week! 

[Overread]

16 hours ago, Verminlord said:

Wanted to share my warlock bombardier kitbash. Am I the only one who isn't a fan of the new model? 

Unleash Grandpa Skaven! I love it, neat use of a few shields and what I think are mostly Doomwheel parts. 

@Russrmc those are looking really great! The layer of paint/spray makes a difference and I think once painted up those parts will look really professional and in keeping with the current designs! Though I can't help but think the acolyte needs a slightly more oversized backpack. 

 

Also fellow rats don't forget that there's some legacy models on offer from GW next week

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/24/made-to-order-legends-of-the-skaven/

I'm already thinking on getting the Grey Seer and possibly Ikit Claw.