AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[RatKing]

23 hours ago, Darkhan said:

When are you playing? And will it be streamed?

22 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Wait ( @RatKing and  @Blisterfeet) you guys stream??😱😍😍

Playing this saturday 7/8pm GMT but no stream this time im afraid.

I'll try get one set up for when I go against our current tournie "bad guy" of Lumineth.
What're your sentinals going to shoot now, ey!?

 

20 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Thanks for reading! These types of lists have done pretty well for people in the past so I wanted to give it a solid run.. whether or not it's better than just 6 Fiends with a Grinder and 2 other threats on the board remains to be seen, but I'll surely keep you all updated as I practice it.



Also, since there's some interest in streaming.. anytime I play a game I'm streaming it via discord (have yet to get my twitch channel back up and going) and typically play around 8pm EST on the weekdays or anytime Saturday\Sunday. These discords are usually where I stream that anyone can join (especially if you all would like to try TTS 😉:

https://discord.gg/3yRWYsB

https://discord.gg/mxTX9A2

Ooh, I may hit you up in the future after this tournament. TTS has really opened my eyes to so many different aspects of the game. My original tournament army was FS and all I ever had to do/did was just march on forward and hope my heroes dont get blasted off the board.

Skaven on the other hand are making me stretch in so many different ways; the screening, the movement, the shenanigans!

I've yet to really dive into stormfiends, Ive played one game with them and they just sat in a tunnel doing nothing for 2 rounds (I may have forgotten them 😅).

For the last game of the tournament I was going to try a full skaventide mix so I will definately have to find a way to get them in a list!

 

[Ratling]

 

On 8/19/2020 at 4:09 PM, Gwendar said:

Yeah, like I said I just find them harder to use.. and against shooting armies they get deleted but Stormfiends can at least somewhat hold on. Their 4+ save and 20 wounds taken before shooting is affected (IE an entire unit of Acolytes) which is important in the current meta. Playing against Orruks or any other combat based army with little shooting? Acolytes all day if their cheapness lets you fit in other stuff.. but Fiends get the job done just as well usually as Acolytes tend to overkill nearly anything they shoot at.

Anyway, Stormvermin are definitely great, but they do take a bit more movement finesse to ensure they're in range of +1 attack and all that. Without it they only slightly punch above 40 Monks on the charge. That said, SV also get retreat and charge which means you'll pretty much always have the entire unit in combat with something if they last against getting hit back. As for Jezzails... I ran a list last week with 24 of them. Didn't work out for me but it had potential against some matchups. On average you're probably looking at 16-18 damage out of them with hit RR's and a warpspark which is about half as much as Fiends output for the same cost. They can work, but I still think 6-9 is the sweet spot.

The Warpgnaw is... meh. Since we lost Ghyrstrike he's far less reliable in his damage output which is really all he does. Hitting\wounding on 3's isn't bad, but when you only have 4 attacks you will most certainly feel that. Previously I was able to consistently put out 10-20 damage against nearly anything with that 2's\2's profile and RR'ing 1's on both. Now he just whiffs far more.. still debating if I want to sell it since I haven't even assembled the one I got. I don't imagine he'll be around much longer with the the weirdness with FW stuff being taken away lately.

Could you please explain why we lost Ghyrstrike? Where is it stated?

[Cosmicsheep]

30 minutes ago, Ratling said:

 

Could you please explain why we lost Ghyrstrike? Where is it stated?

The new Generals Handbook has superced the old Malign Sourcery book. They've drastically reduced the amount of artefacts and Ghystrike is no longer there.

See page 102 ownwards in the GHB

Edited August 21, 2020 by Cosmicsheep

[Ratling]

 

49 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

The new Generals Handbook has superced the old Malign Sourcery book. They've drastically reduced the amount of artefacts and Ghystrike is no longer there.

See page 102 ownwards in the GHB

Many thanks!

[Ratling]

1 hour ago, Cosmicsheep said:

The new Generals Handbook has superced the old Malign Sourcery book. They've drastically reduced the amount of artefacts and Ghystrike is no longer there.

See page 102 ownwards in the GHB

Wow those artifacts are trash now!

[Cosmicsheep]

31 minutes ago, Ratling said:

Wow those artifacts are trash now!

You're not wrong 😂

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, RatKing said:

Ooh, I may hit you up in the future after this tournament. TTS has really opened my eyes to so many different aspects of the game. My original tournament army was FS and all I ever had to do/did was just march on forward and hope my heroes dont get blasted off the board.

Skaven on the other hand are making me stretch in so many different ways; the screening, the movement, the shenanigans!

I've yet to really dive into stormfiends, Ive played one game with them and they just sat in a tunnel doing nothing for 2 rounds (I may have forgotten them 😅).

For the last game of the tournament I was going to try a full skaventide mix so I will definately have to find a way to get them in a list!

Yeah, it's been pretty amazing getting some actual high level gameplay in nowadays with the ability to test new stuff at any time (and whole new armies) which are 2 things I can't do locally.. most of my people are pretty casual aside from about 4 other guys. So if you ever want to play or have any other questions then for sure let me know, I'm Gwendar in those discords as well.

Clanrats are pretty important and even 3x20 has been doing relatively well as people tend to ignore them in anything besides the Battleplans where battleline units give you extra points.. people don't give enough credit to retreat and charge or their potential 14" movement. I think I may still prefer my 6 Fiend list with a Grinder but there's definitely something to be said about 12 Fiends with a Bridge for sure. Like you may have read in that last batrep, had I got those 2 spells off T1 I likely would've won. But you know... such is our life in general anymore; no MMMWP? Have fun doing far less damage this turn.

56 minutes ago, Ratling said:

Wow those artifacts are trash now!

Yeeeah... like I said, not having Ghyrstrike or a decent replacement even in the Skaven book makes him rather useless now as he isn't as consistently able to pump out that 20 damage. That said, if I ever roll a 12 on the Bell he's usually what I will summon in next to a Warpseer.

[Skreech Verminking]

So after Highlighting and layering the skins of 20 Stormvermins,

I started on converting some Gutter runners through some easy build Stormvermins, with some extended clothes,

 

till I accidentally threw my Water Water i to my painted stormvermins.

Well at least the computer came out save.

[grucha]

Howdie there, fellow ratmen!

I'm about to represent Great Horned Rat at the local tournament (1250) and I was thinking you could help me choose the right list (all are built around stormvermins).

Another question: if the first list also looks most fun to you (if both death frenzies would be cast, a unit of stormvermin attacking twice before dying sounds so cool - extra angry rats, yes yes!) perhaps Warbgringer should be the general with Brutal Furty and Things-Bane to make him more of an independent heavy hitter?

[Coyote]

Cool, what’re you planning to do with the Stormvermin if you field them?   

At this points cost you’re better of with 2x40 Clanrats or 3x20 and maybe a Bell and a Bombardier if the points work out?  The Clanrats can do anything the Stormvermin can unless you want to go on the attack- and still don’t really want to attack.

But I’m the worst General here squeak squeek fear musk, you have so many better Generals to offer their suggestions.  I’m just weak and poor and no threat to anyone...

[Gwendar]

@grucha In 2k, yeah more than 40 Stormvermin is a bit much. At 1250 then running 80 could be pretty obscene, assuming you're playing on a 4x4 table.

Seeing as how I'm biased with Skryre, I prefer your last list with 6 Fiends and 40 Stormvermin... but if I were to pick one of the others then maybe #3, although I think you'd get more out of another Clawlord to be honest than you would a Deathmaster. On average he'll maybe do 1-3 damage no matter which loadout you pick. The Clawlord can potentially do more, especially if it's hurt (for more attacks) but it also lets you field each SV unit on both sides of the board for more coverage.

 

[Stormy1486]

Hi, newboe skaven player here (played them back in 4th and 5th edition).

Looking for general advice about how to flesh out the army for 2000 points. I'm not a super compeditive player (anymore!) But dont want to be rolled over either.

I like centre pieces so looking to minimum include:

- screaming bell

- vermin lord

- 6 stormfiends

- stormvermin

 

Would also like to try fitting in the following:

- doomwheels

- hellpit abominations

- deathmaster assassin

- plague furnance

- lightning cannon.

- thanquol

Looking to avoid the old metal clan skyre stuff (apart of Ikit claw). So no old jezzials or poison wind globdairs (can't afford them!).

Any general hints or ideas to making these combindations work? I assume ill need the base line 2 x 20 clanrats, 1 x 20 stormvermin for battleline.  I also note that the screaming bell, any form of the verminlord and storm fiends and my battleline is already most of my army (like 1300 points i think?).

I understand some matchups are not perfect, just i love putting together allcomers lists with lots of great models!

Open to any general ideas or things to note for skaven in 2020 (still awaiting my battletome)

[Cosmicsheep]

10 minutes ago, Stormy1486 said:

Would also like to try fitting in the following:

- doomwheels

- hellpit abominations

- deathmaster assassin

- plague furnance

- lightning cannon.

- thanquol

Doomwheels are popular at the moment (scroll back a few pages) but benefit from an engineer

Hellpits are great at clearing hordes (if you can get there with their sporadic movement) and don't need much synergy

Assassins are not worth it IMHO (see previous post)

Plague Furnace is redundant in your list since you already have the bell, unless you plan on taking 40 monks

Lightning cannon's can be good if you need some mortal wound ouput. If you're taking an engineer (or Ikit Claw) he can buff both the cannon and fiends if he's within range

I'm a big fan of Thanquol, and with his recent (small) point reduction i think you'll start seeing him in more lists. 

Also look at a Clawlord for buffing those Stormvermin and try to maximise the unit sizes for those tasty buffs. (i.e. think 40 stormvermin)

[Skreech Verminking]

So I’ve tried my very sneaky heavy clans eshin army out, and shortly but it was a ton of fun, but not really efficient.

In total I lost the game against a thunder lizard army with 2Bastiladons 50skinks (30, 10, 10) skink star priest, skink priest and skink chief on that big thingie and kroak, in the third turn.

Most if it came down, due to me rolling extremely bad, when it came down to making charge of 9inches (rerolling)  or getting cogs of.

ImAnd although The Verminlord deceiver was almost un-killable in the game, I noticed how badly he is in practice.

For 320points you get an incredible looking model, with a great spell.

And that’s mostly it.

He’s no support hero, and he can’t really kill anything, so He basically was a 320points unseeable thing that did nothing, not great if you pay 320points for him.

He would be such a great choice if he could be given the masterclan keyword, which would allow him to take artifacts like the snout grovel robe, that would at least make him a ok-ish support hero.

but it was pretty fun, seeing my opponents displeasure, as he was unable to do anything on his first turn.😂

And well Before I go back to the drawing board I think my Pet rat (it’s a huge black furred Rat (definitely not a cat (you can not change my mind!!))) wants some attentions as well.

[Skreech Verminking]

Technical issues 

nothing to see here 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[firtahl]

On 8/25/2020 at 2:28 AM, Cosmicsheep said:

If you're taking an engineer (or Ikit Claw) he can buff both the cannon and fiends if he's within range

There must be a rule i missed, how can the arch warlock buff the WLC? I know there's the battalion that lowers the roll by 1, but that's I thought you could do to make them better.

[Cosmicsheep]

14 minutes ago, firtahl said:

There must be a rule i missed, how can the arch warlock buff the WLC? I know there's the battalion that lowers the roll by 1, but that's I thought you could do to make them better.

Arch-Warlock has the WARLOCK ENGINEER keyword too 😉

[firtahl]

15 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Arch-Warlock has the WARLOCK ENGINEER keyword too 😉

I see it, i never saw the requirement that an engineer had to be neat by to overcharge. Big duh on my part.

[michu]

Question. Are Jezzails good for 1250 pts list?  Because bringing whole squad is a bit priceful and I'm not sure that less than 9 is enough for any point level.

[Gwendar]

1 minute ago, michu said:

Question. Are Jezzails good for 1250 pts list?  Because bringing whole squad is a bit priceful and I'm not sure that less than 9 is enough for any point level.

3 isn't worth it (maybe at 1k?) but 6-9 is definitely a good sweet spot. 6 is enough firepower that, on average, you'll be able to 1-shot 5 wound heroes and put dents into other things if not.

[michu]

Thanks. So my new list looks like that.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (110)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
- 4x Standard Bearers
- 4x Plague Harbingers

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (280)

Total: 1230 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 130
 

 

[Gwendar]

@michu I really like that actually.. may need to start running something like that for my teaching games around the 1k mark as it's super balanced. Monks are still a powerhouse but less oppressive than Stormvermin (for new players) and the Jezzails help teach pre-measuring or else say goodbye to your buffing character 😅

[Ratling]

Hey all.
So I got myself a warlord on brood horror BUT!
I noticed he's not on warscroll builder nor in a new GHB 2020. What does it mean? Is it not possible to use him now or what?!

[Verminlord]

1 hour ago, Ratling said:

Hey all.
So I got myself a warlord on brood horror BUT!
I noticed he's not on warscroll builder nor in a new GHB 2020. What does it mean? Is it not possible to use him now or what?!

Unfortunately he cannot be used in tournament/matched play.

I have one too, and though I didn't use him often, it's a great model that filled a mounted tanky verminus support role that now no longer exists.

You can of course use him in your casual games though, or run him as a hellpit abomination.

[Verminlord]

Anyone know if the the warp lightning rule of one exception on engineers also applies to chain warp lightning?