AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Coyote]

We need a Skaven Discussion thread dedicated entirety to lists.

[Gwendar]

14 minutes ago, Coyote said:

We need a Skaven Discussion thread dedicated entirety to lists.

Eh.. but why? These threads are specifically meant to discuss everything, but namely they're used to discuss tactics\lists.



I don't mind ever repeating list related questions even if it's been answered a ton before... speaking of lists, Gregory's list from LVO (the 40 Monk\6 Fiend\Hellpit one) seemed to work well.. shame there's no footage of it. Maybe I need to buy a Hellpit and give it a go? Also.. played 2 games today, will do another tomorrow, so I'll do batreps then.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Gwendar
forgot some stuff..

[Chase]

3 hours ago, Fulkes said:

I've been trying to pick a 2020 army project so thought I'd ask the experts:

Definitely not an expert. I was in your shoes just a few months ago. I went with 9 Stormfiends (my favorite models in the skaven) 9 Jezzails, 3 rattling, 3 flamers (I 3d printed the weapon teams because the original models are old and suck IMO), the Doomwheel and 2 lightning cannon. Unfortunately I dont have the time and skill to convert 30+ Acolytes to a level I would want. Nor am I rolling in cash to pay $10+ per model. So I went the standard 3x20 clanrats way. A unit of 40 plague monks for variety and a competitive option when I want an edge. For heros I have 2 bombardiers, arch warlock, Grey Seer, screaming bell, plague priest (from the bell kit) I also got Thanquol and a Verminlord (you can magnetize to be any of those). It's an awesome army. I'm really glad I made the investment. I sold my FEC for them and haven't looked back. It's a ****** load of painting and hobby (if you don't like the hobby part I might look for something else tbh). But other than Cities, Skaven has the most robust warscroll line (though a lot of it is showing age quite a bit). You can basically play them in any sort of playstyle you enjoy. Save maybe a hyper aggressive melee army (I have Big Waaagh for that). I'm happy to have gone with skaven and mostly into Skryre. Plus year of the Rat is the perfect time to join the clans yes-yes! 

[Skreech Verminking]

14 hours ago, Fulkes said:

Casual good is still not horrible and gives me some hope for running a few.

 

Does the formation with the Doomwheel in it help any?

Well the doomwheel is probably the most unreliable unit in the whole game.

which is also the reason why I am taking 3 of them to a grand tournament in Luxembourg.
 

something that is so extremely random is in my eyes the perfect unit for a good match up.

Literally nobody not even the person using it can be certain what it will do and it will be hard to counter those units,

especially when they start moving 40inches forward.🥴😉

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Fulkes]

I was mulling over this some more and almost shelved the idea due to how poorly some of the older models have aged, but after seeing some Skaven-count-as-Skitarri conversions I've got some ideas to kitbash thinga I need instead of relying on the classic models.

Definitely feeling that I'll be leaning into Skyre visually, even if I don't go all in on the keyword bingo proper.

[Gwendar]

Alright everyone, had 3 games this weekend with the Monk\Jezzail\Acolyte list posted earlier this week and went 2-1.. see report for details and as always feel free to share your thoughts 😉

Safe to say I'll be using the list more.. but I'm heavily thinking about a replacement to Monks. Did someone say Hellpit? (until I roll 2-4" movement multiple times in a row and give up on it)

 

[Gwendar]

After this weekend, I wasn't too keen on Monks. The last 5 games or so I've used them in I just... really wasn't a fan. I hated the dice rolling of their previous iteration, and I'm not saying they're terrible in their current but they just haven't worked well for me. As I said in my batreps, I really think I could've used them more aggressively, especially with Death Frenzy.. but I never wanted them to get hit first and against my first 2 opponents, that was a high probability. So, they got stuck behind Clanrats and when they could've done something, they either under-performed or the game was already over thanks to the Acolytes\Jezzails.

I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head, but the 3rd place win at LVO (Hellpit, 6 Fiends, 40 Monks) had me thinking about the Hellpit in place of Monks. It's unfortunate no-one seemed to cover LVO so we have no footage.. but getting 3rd seems a nice feet, although there were complaints about the matchups being weird such as a #5 going against a #70-something in game 4, etc.

Anyway, here's what I'm currently thinking:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 162
 

 

[Drcrabs]

2 hours ago, Gwendar said:

After this weekend, I wasn't too keen on Monks. The last 5 games or so I've used them in I just... really wasn't a fan. I hated the dice rolling of their previous iteration, and I'm not saying they're terrible in their current but they just haven't worked well for me. As I said in my batreps, I really think I could've used them more aggressively, especially with Death Frenzy.. but I never wanted them to get hit first and against my first 2 opponents, that was a high probability. So, they got stuck behind Clanrats and when they could've done something, they either under-performed or the game was already over thanks to the Acolytes\Jezzails.

I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head, but the 3rd place win at LVO (Hellpit, 6 Fiends, 40 Monks) had me thinking about the Hellpit in place of Monks. It's unfortunate no-one seemed to cover LVO so we have no footage.. but getting 3rd seems a nice feet, although there were complaints about the matchups being weird such as a #5 going against a #70-something in game 4, etc.

Anyway, here's what I'm currently thinking:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 162
 

 

Its a shame the Monks didn't get a chance do anything for you but I guess like you said the games were over before they had a chance to do anything to show their worth. At the very least they can be used for distraction or objective holding until it is their turn to attack. The Hellpit Abomination is a very intriguing model with a ton of damage potential but for some reason I can't get over the idea of everytime I NEED it to make that charge or get into position to and then the random movement completely ruins good tactics / strategy. Though on one hand you could just always chalk it up as just part of the skaven randomness that is the Great Horned Rat's plan! haha

[Gwendar]

3 minutes ago, Drcrabs said:

I can't get over the idea of everytime I NEED it to make that charge or get into position to and then the random movement completely ruins good tactics / strategy.

Well, that's just it. It's inconsistent though the average will be 7".. but I can't rely on that. It can decimate hordes but so can Monks, so I dunno.

We'll see.. at the very least I like the idea of it so I can drop a Bell for the Warpseer who has sniping potential with Warpgale or shutting down a hammer units charges since they get halved.

[Drcrabs]

7 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

 

We'll see.. at the very least I like the idea of it so I can drop a Bell for the Warpseer who has sniping potential with Warpgale or shutting down a hammer units charges since they get halved.

And that is one of the best things about Skaven, many different combinations of options for us to use to accomplish similar tactical goals we want accomplished when drafting different lists. 

[chyortskazal]

Greeting man-things!

I am currently a dirty order (and destruction) player but have heard the call of the horned rat to help bring glory back to the Clans Eshin!

I want to play a pure Eshin list — even if it isn’t the most competitive — cause i love the flavor and the play style seems really fun and different.

Here is what I am thinking for an initial list.. should I hit the warp stone!?!

Skaven Clans Eshin

** Leaders**

• Verminlord Deceive

• Deathmaster

  • Weapon: Fighting Claws

  • Artefact: Sword of Judgment

• Deathmaster

  • Weapon: Weeping Blades

  • Artefact: Betrayer's Crown

• Verminlord Warpseer (general)

  • Command Trait: Master Manipulator

** Troops **

• 40 night runners

• 20 night runners

• 20 gutter runners

• 20 gutter runners

** Endless Spells **

• Warp Lightning Vortex

• Vermintide

** Battalions **

• Slinktalon

1980 pts

What do you think?

Is it semi vaiable atleast -- suggestions for tweaks?

I am planning to convert the blood bowl team in Gutter Runners -- do they fit on 25mm bases?  Any foreseeable issues doing this?

 

Thanks all!

[Cosmicsheep]

4 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Anyway, here's what I'm currently thinking:

I’ve played the Hellpit quite a bit since I started playing AoS last year. My friends are s**t scared of it although I’ve never really understood why. It can cause massive damage with the avalanche of flesh but it can be hit and miss. It makes a good distraction though 😃

I ALWAYS bring a master Moulder along just for the extra D3 wounds and rerolling 1’s but keep it near my clanrats for some battleshock resistance.

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I’ve played the Hellpit quite a bit since I started playing AoS last year. My friends are s**t scared of it although I’ve never really understood why. It can cause massive damage with the avalanche of flesh but it can be hit and miss. It makes a good distraction though 😃

I ALWAYS bring a master Moulder along just for the extra D3 wounds and rerolling 1’s but keep it near my clanrats for some battleshock resistance.

Oh I know my local meta would be focusing it (except the 1-3 more competitive players who would ignore it) so it would be nice. I would consider a Master Moulder but I don't see it fitting.. and I don't really want it to keep 1 unit alive but not doing much else.

It's one of the Skaven models I don't have, so just buying one and testing it out is no biggie really.. I mean, I already own 3 extra Stormfiends that will eternally stay in my storage so.. yeah. There are other options, so we'll see. I just really wish Eshin wasn't so terrible; I would really love to throw in 20 Gutter Runners but their output just isn't worth it.

[Chase]

8 hours ago, Gwendar said:

but the 3rd place win at LVO

Can't seem to find results/lists. Mind posting the link? Thanks bro

[Gwendar]

19 minutes ago, Chase said:

Can't seem to find results/lists. Mind posting the link? Thanks bro

LVO was on the BCP app. 8th place was OBR (only had a top 8 final elimination). All the lists are available on the app if you search for the event. Skaven list was Bell, Grey Seer, Engineer, 3x20 Clanrats, 40 Monks, 6 Fiends, Hell Pit Abomination, Bridge + Palisade.


 

[Drcrabs]

18 hours ago, chyortskazal said:

Greeting man-things!

I am currently a dirty order (and destruction) player but have heard the call of the horned rat to help bring glory back to the Clans Eshin!

I want to play a pure Eshin list — even if it isn’t the most competitive — cause i love the flavor and the play style seems really fun and different.

Here is what I am thinking for an initial list.. should I hit the warp stone!?!

Skaven Clans Eshin

** Leaders**

• Verminlord Deceive

• Deathmaster

  • Weapon: Fighting Claws

  • Artefact: Sword of Judgment

• Deathmaster

  • Weapon: Weeping Blades

  • Artefact: Betrayer's Crown

• Verminlord Warpseer (general)

  • Command Trait: Master Manipulator

** Troops **

• 40 night runners

• 20 night runners

• 20 gutter runners

• 20 gutter runners

** Endless Spells **

• Warp Lightning Vortex

• Vermintide

** Battalions **

• Slinktalon

1980 pts

What do you think?

Is it semi vaiable atleast -- suggestions for tweaks?

I am planning to convert the blood bowl team in Gutter Runners -- do they fit on 25mm bases?  Any foreseeable issues doing this?

 

Thanks all!

It seems like a pretty cool list! I'm not sure how well it will do because for some reason the Great Horned Rat ( I mean GW in this instance 😆 ) hasn't blessed our Clans Eshin and Moulder.. but maybe one day!! yes-yes!

If you already have the models for this then I say why not and have fun with it. My only comment that could possible help this list is I feel like it needs a few tarpit units of clanrats so that the night runners and gutter runners can pepper the enemy with ranged attacks for a longer time while simultaneously getting onto objectives.

[Gwendar]

6 minutes ago, Drcrabs said:

the Great Horned Rat ( I mean GW in this instance 😆 ) hasn't blessed our Clans Eshin and Moulder.. but maybe one day!! yes-yes!

This statement combined with your chinese new year avatar isn't cool, man. While at the tournament Saturday I got overly excited seeing that on my FB feed just to come to the slow realization it likely meant nothing... ah well. I would enjoy something akin to what Warhammer Weekly suggested; a DoK styled release that was a combined Skryre\Eshin subfaction (tech-fueled ninjas) but I would take Eshin\Moulder, as much as I dislike Moulder overall.

We can dream, right? I want my hours of converting 80+ Gutter\Night Runners to have been worth it 😅



@chyortskazal I agree, I do like it.. but with Eshin you don't have much to work with anyway so most lists tend to look about the same 😉
As someone who somewhat attempted to convert the BB team and in the end just settled for using 2 of the poses (the less armored ones) as-is; yes they fit on 25's just fine.

You almost make me want to take mine out, paint them in a slightly different scheme and run them for a casual game... almost. They haven't seen a table in probably close to 2 years.

[chyortskazal]

Cheers, thanks for the replies folks!   

I would be over the moon if they simply released new gutter runners...  at least the nightrunners are plastic, and while yes they are weird monkey rats, they hold a certain vintage charm for me.  

I don't think I will rush off to buy all this, but perhaps at some point during this most auspicious year I will take the dive.

Think it could be good to split the 20x night runners into 2x10 to just snag some early objectives/serve as screens (or an unexpected deathmaster transport) while the 40 block would run as an initial tar pit.    They wont last long as 10's certainly but they provide some extra board control

Might see if I cant proxy my mates pestilens army just to get a sense of how things play.  sword monks as night runners, staff monks as gutter runners, plague priests as deathmasters, corrupter as deceiver and well... I guess a piece of cardboard for the warpseer and endless spells lol.

 

 

[Cosmicsheep]

I was surprised to see the night runners, giant rats, packmasters and rat Ogors on the new warcry cards for Skaven.

I’m keeping all my fingers and toes crossed that we’ll see a renewed warscroll for these unloved clans.

That, or GW are just trying to clear some old stock !!! 😭😭

[Gwendar]

7 minutes ago, chyortskazal said:

Think it could be good to split the 20x night runners into 2x10 to just snag some early objectives/serve as screens (or an unexpected deathmaster transport) while the 40 block would run as an initial tar pit.    They wont last long as 10's certainly but they provide some extra board control

I would try it. Night Runners somehow got worse (I valued their random rend over the exploding hits on shooting) but they still work well as pre-game movers for objective snatching if you roll the average. Gutter Runners are going to be where your CC damage comes from.

[Skreech Verminking]

59 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

That, or GW are just trying to clear some old stock !!! 😭😭

Something which is probably never going to happen considering how much some of these old units cost

[Diemer84]

Hey folks

I ha e a tournament coming up, and a deadline for sending in the army rooster in 3 days... 

I have no idea of what to play😆

I am considering these two lists:

Skaventide
LEADERS
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Magic - Artefact : Skavenbrew
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Stormvermin (450)
- Halberd & Shield
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 2 x Standard Bearers - 2 x Plague Harbingers
TOTAL: 1990/2000
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 1/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

or 

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Plague Harbingers
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 166

 

I need some advice, what do you think? 
best regards

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Something which is probably never going to happen considering how much some of these old units cost

A prime example being the 1 per $15 Skryre Acolytes. At the tournament Saturday, a lot of people were commenting about my Stormvermin\Irondrake converted Acolytes and asking what they were. I couldn't help but tell them I don't buy the real ones as it would cost me $450 for a unit of 30. The look on their faces 😄

21 minutes ago, Diemer84 said:

Hey folks

I ha e a tournament coming up, and a deadline for sending in the army rooster in 3 days... 

I have no idea of what to play😆

-snip-

I need some advice, what do you think? 
best regards

To be honest, I prefer the 2nd and that's with me thinking Thanquol isn't worth taking anymore after the WLV range reduction. 4x Warpfire could be nice, but man I would really like to sneak in a WLV somewhere for that, but it's not needed. Not to say the 1st isn't strong as well.. double Death Frenzying Monks or Stormvermin (or 1 for each) would be pretty nuts. I think either way you could do reasonably well. I would try to fit a Clawlord into the 1st for the +1 attack CA.. but again, double death frenzy could help enough without it.

[Skreech Verminking]

So I thought it would be a great idea to talk about points-changes in total with the skaven faction, since some of our units literally never see the battlefield.

to well find a solution to that with at least in points increases/decreases, I opened a thread and have put my own thoughts to those problems.

If you think that I’m literally talking nonsense, or just think the problem for certain units can be fixed differently or just want to agree/disagree with my, I would love to hear your own thoughts and ideas😁😁

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Diemer84]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

To be honest, I prefer the 2nd and that's with me thinking Thanquol isn't worth taking anymore after the WLV range reduction. 4x Warpfire could be nice, but man I would really like to sneak in a WLV somewhere for that, but it's not needed. Not to say the 1st isn't strong as well.. double Death Frenzying Monks or Stormvermin (or 1 for each) would be pretty nuts. I think either way you could do reasonably well. I would try to fit a Clawlord into the 1st for the +1 attack CA.. but again, double death frenzy could help enough without it.

What would you suggest instead of thanquol then? It’s impossible for me to fit in the WLV...