fishwaffle2232 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 @Gwendar is it really that hard to fit things within 6 of the bridge. Is it at all possible to get 6 fiends over and then have clanrats in front to screen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said: @Gwendar is it really that hard to fit things within 6 of the bridge. Is it at all possible to get 6 fiends over and then have clanrats in front to screen? Wholly within 6", so yeah it can be. You can fit the 6 Fiends 1 in front of the other (so think 2x3) but 20 Clanrats as well is..eh. Not that it can't be done, could just be cumbersome, and yeah I'm sure 2 Ratling teams would be alright. I usually want the Fiends to come over the Bridge as far in front as possible for the best range.. ideally you auto run Clanrats 14" to try to get them in front, though you're probably not going to be able if you setup the Bridge right at the max range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Gwendar said: Wholly within 6", so yeah it can be. You can fit the 6 Fiends 1 in front of the other (so think 2x3) but 20 Clanrats as well is..eh. Not that it can't be done, could just be cumbersome, and yeah I'm sure 2 Ratling teams would be alright. I usually want the Fiends to come over the Bridge as far in front as possible for the best range.. ideally you auto run Clanrats 14" to try to get them in front, though you're probably not going to be able if you setup the Bridge right at the max range. Sounds a bit janky. How are you finding the bridge? My other problem with the bridge is that if i take WLV as well, i am spending a large chunk on endless spells. In your games have you taken both and found they are worth the points investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said: Sounds a bit janky. How are you finding the bridge? My other problem with the bridge is that if i take WLV as well, i am spending a large chunk on endless spells. In your games have you taken both and found they are worth the points investment? Not as great now that Fiends max out at 6, but still useful. I'm testing different lists out over the coming weeks to see if I like it or not. WLV is always worth it to me if you have the Bridge or Skitterleap.. without those though, eh. I usually won't bring it. The amount of damage alone that it can do is absolutely worth it's 100 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gwendar said: Not as great now that Fiends max out at 6, but still useful. I'm testing different lists out over the coming weeks to see if I like it or not. WLV is always worth it to me if you have the Bridge or Skitterleap.. without those though, eh. I usually won't bring it. The amount of damage alone that it can do is absolutely worth it's 100 points. Yea I am yet to have a game where the WLV hasn't made its points back, just must harder to deliver it and I find it usually comes into play t2-3 now rather than t1. When you combo it with the bridge, what are you taking as your caster? If I send over a standard engineer with the fiends I only get one cast, which means I have to choose to cast WLV or MMMWP. I think arch warlock is a better option here, but I usually find it hard to find the points for it. I like having two engineers in my lists for redundancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said: Yea I am yet to have a game where the WLV hasn't made its points back, just must harder to deliver it and I find it usually comes into play t2-3 now rather than t1. When you combo it with the bridge, what are you taking as your caster? If I send over a standard engineer with the fiends I only get one cast, which means I have to choose to cast WLV or MMMWP. I think arch warlock is a better option here, but I usually find it hard to find the points for it. I like having two engineers in my lists for redundancy. Which is fine.. if you wanna get it in their deployment T1 just bring a source of Skitterleap as I've mentioned before, then you can bail out with the Gnawhole. It's one reason I usually set them up on both sides of the table more than 9" from their deployment and my main wherever I plan to deploy heavily. Even if you can't, by t2/3 some people may have forgotten about it and they bunch half their units up right in front of you (happened in my Sylvaneth game last Sunday) and you couldn't ask for a better target. No matter what, WLV is always cast with an AW/Engineer/Bombardier for me because the Spark rerolls combined with the +1 from the Gnawhole is the best mathematical option next to Thanquol and +1. I always have at least 3-5 casts per list.. so it's never an issue for me to get off Bridge, MMMWP and WLV when I bring an AW.. which I always try to do with a Bridge + WLV setup. He's always worth the points for me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Gwendar said: Which is fine.. if you wanna get it in their deployment T1 just bring a source of Skitterleap as I've mentioned before, then you can bail out with the Gnawhole. It's one reason I usually set them up on both sides of the table more than 9" from their deployment and my main wherever I plan to deploy heavily. Even if you can't, by t2/3 some people may have forgotten about it and they bunch half their units up right in front of you (happened in my Sylvaneth game last Sunday) and you couldn't ask for a better target. No matter what, WLV is always cast with an AW/Engineer/Bombardier for me because the Spark rerolls combined with the +1 from the Gnawhole is the best mathematical option next to Thanquol and +1. I always have at least 3-5 casts per list.. so it's never an issue for me to get off Bridge, MMMWP and WLV when I bring an AW.. which I always try to do with a Bridge + WLV setup. He's always worth the points for me personally. Yea I've done the skitterleap gnawhole combo a few times before. I guess I'll have to fit the AW back into my list if I'm running the WLV and Bridge combo. I think you are right about the value of the AW. I have just tried skimming my lists a bit to fit more in and perhaps wrongfully cut the AW in favour of and engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said: Yea I've done the skitterleap gnawhole combo a few times before. I guess I'll have to fit the AW back into my list if I'm running the WLV and Bridge combo. I think you are right about the value of the AW. I have just tried skimming my lists a bit to fit more in and perhaps wrongfully cut the AW in favour of and engineer. Just as an example, my Hero list 90% of the time looks like this: AW, Engineer, Bell OR 2x Engineer, Bell, Grey Seer on Foot. Either way I can still fit 60-80 Clanrats, Bridge, WLV, 6 Fiends and generally another unit or two like 9 Jezzails or 40 Monks... etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) My problem is I take warpseer in my lists. Which also means i take an extra CP so i dont get nailed turn 1. I need to get my bell made because that will free up some points. I do love the warpseer though and still get a lot of value out of it I'll be keen to hear how your testing goes over the weekend though. I dont have heaps of time for games with a newborn so a lot of list theorizing for me unfortunately Edited January 24, 2020 by fishwaffle2232 Lost reception on phone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Gwendar said: Just as an example, my Hero list 90% of the time looks like this: AW, Engineer, Bell OR 2x Engineer, Bell, Grey Seer on Foot. Either way I can still fit 60-80 Clanrats, Bridge, WLV, 6 Fiends and generally another unit or two like 9 Jezzails or 40 Monks... etc etc. Interesting. So with that many casters what kind of spells do you typically try to get of? The Bridge and WLV from what you've been saying, and then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 5 hours ago, gronnelg said: Interesting. So with that many casters what kind of spells do you typically try to get of? The Bridge and WLV from what you've been saying, and then? AW: WLV\MMMWP, Engineer: Bridge, Bell\Grey Seer: Death Frenzy\Skitterleap. With the remaining you could throw out another Endless, Warscroll Spell, Realm Spell... or just AB\MS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grucha Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I have a 2k local tournament coming soon and I was hoping you could help me decide which list to take: 1# Allegiance: SkaventideMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersThanquol on Boneripper (400)- 4 Warpfire Braziers- Lore of Ruin: PlagueLord Skreech Verminking (320)Arch-Warlock (160)- Artefact: Ignax's Scales - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp LightningGrey Seer (140)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Lore of Ruin: SkitterleapBattleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell Ringers20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell Ringers20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell RingersUnits3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsBalewind Vortex (40)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)Warp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 2# Allegiance: SkaventideArch-Warlock (160)- General- Trait: Savage Overlord Thanquol on Boneripper (400)- 4 Warpfire Braziers- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell Ringers20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell Ringers20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Standard Bell Ringers6 x Stormfiends (520)- 2x Windlaunchers- 2x Ratling Cannons- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets40 x Plague Monks (280)- Foetid Blades- 1x Standard Bearers- 1x Plague Harbingers3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)Soulscream Bridge (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 161 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) Well.. was thinking a bit today and I'll have 3 games this weekend, and I'm planning to do the following for all or at least 2 of them: Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Trait: Master of Magic- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyWarlock Engineer (100)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Warlock Engineer (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-stave9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsVermintide (40)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 191 No WLV, no Bridge.. just bodies, magic, CC and shooting. And starting with a CP. Worth nothing you could sub out Vermintide or 20 Clanrats for Cogs/whatever else you want. Curious to see how it goes. Also, @grucha I prefer the 2nd but.. I'd swap the Jezzails for something. 3 Jezzails will do next to nothing. You'd be better off bringing WLV + Vermintide for the same cost... Though you'll obviously only be able to cast 2 endless spells per turn, but yeah. Edited January 24, 2020 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drcrabs Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, grucha said: I have a 2k local tournament coming soon and I was hoping you could help me decide which list to take: Me personally, I like list #2 because it has more bodies and that is my usual preference. Though if you choose that list I would think to suggest to find a way to get in another hero, Engineer more then likely, to cast MMMWP and possibly find some protection via trait and or item. Could give the AW the Verminous Valour trait and since I noticed you don't seem to have a magic item in that list you could also give him either Ignax's Scales for more protection or you could get the Vigordust Injector to beef up the Stormfiends even more. If you consider this and need to find points for it I would consider possibly dropping the jezzails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drcrabs Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, Gwendar said: Well.. was thinking a bit today and I'll have 3 games this weekend, and I'm planning to do the following for all or at least 2 of them: Reveal hidden contents Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Trait: Master of Magic- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyWarlock Engineer (100)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Warlock Engineer (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-stave9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsVermintide (40)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 191 No WLV, no Bridge.. just bodies, magic, CC and shooting. And starting with a CP. Worth nothing you could sub out Vermintide or 20 Clanrats for Cogs/whatever else you want. Curious to see how it goes. I really dig this list but thats probably because it's pretty similar to what I proposed in my list earlier. I know from reading here that you were thinking about putting together a list like this for a bit ever since the Stormfiend change and it gave me inspiration towards my list building. Please do let us know how it goes as I'm still in the building and painting stages and I want to see some success with this style. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 @Drcrabs Yeah, it's largely what I ran with back in the first few months of the tomes release but.. slowly drifted away from it in favor of Monks (which I didn't run before) and Fiends. You have 3 central threats and they can all be used for different tasks; Acolytes for Hordes\Elite\Behemoth deleting, Jezzails for Support Hero deleting or chipping at Elites\Behemoths.. and the Monks for, well.. nowadays I feel they're more suited to low save units, but with Death Frenzy they can handle other things reasonably well. I love my Fiends, but yeah.. once they're gone that's a lot of power presence that goes away; here I have 3. I would've liked to squeeze in a Warpseer over the Bell, but then I would lose Death Frenzy (and I absolutely need 2 Engineers for MMMWP redundancy) and I didn't feel it was quite worth it. Like I said, I'll do some games with this and 1-2 with what I ran last Sunday since some people were interested in seeing more Fiends + Bridge action... just a bit less aggressively 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 @Gwendar I love that list, I feel like acolytes fell out of favour for a bit, but I know there was a bloke in Australia called Dan brewer who won a tournament with a similar style of list. The only thing that has kept me from running something similar is the need to convert up a bunch of acolytes. I think the 3 threats will be really hard for a lot of armies to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said: @Gwendar I love that list, I feel like acolytes fell out of favour for a bit, but I know there was a bloke in Australia called Dan brewer who won a tournament with a similar style of list. The only thing that has kept me from running something similar is the need to convert up a bunch of acolytes. I think the 3 threats will be really hard for a lot of armies to deal with. Right, Dan won the masters with it and that was shortly after the tome release.. but like you said, it kind of fell out of favor for 9 Fiend\2-3x40 Monk lists. With Fiends and Monks effectively nerfed, I think we can potentially bring this back; time will tell. Lots of 6 Fiend lists at LVO and Cancon last I saw.. I like Dan Corcoran's list with 12 Jezzails, 6 Fiends and 2 WLC's 😅 All in all I think we're trying to figure out where we will fit in the current meta after the Fiend and Monk changes... as well as all the new competition. It's worth noting the lack of Bridges in both tournaments even with the Fiends, so I think they're being played less aggressively than before (which you could do because you would 100% wipe 1-2 units off the table per turn, now it's less so) and I think it could be why we start shifting away from "eggs in 1 basket" styled approaches when these 12+ Flamer\shooty CoS lists start gaining traction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicsheep Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Happy Year Of The Rat everyone 👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said: Happy Year Of The Rat everyone 👍 Thx, now let’s just hope Gw didn’t forget about it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 And so it shall begin!!! yes-Yes! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Spread the word, or disease. Dealers choice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulkes Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I've been trying to pick a 2020 army project so thought I'd ask the experts: how's Clan Skyre doing? I'm a big fan of the warmachines (though Moylder has some stuff I like as well, Doom Wheel trumps everything else), but don't want to spend hours and dollara on something that plays like a blind rat with four peg legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 43 minutes ago, Fulkes said: I've been trying to pick a 2020 army project so thought I'd ask the experts: how's Clan Skyre doing? I'm a big fan of the warmachines (though Moylder has some stuff I like as well, Doom Wheel trumps everything else), but don't want to spend hours and dollara on something that plays like a blind rat with four peg legs. I have always liked the doomwheel in my more casual lists. If you scroll back a few pages we were actually discussing the doomwheel in lists. It definitely isn't our best competitive option for shooting and this largely comes down to the fact that it is a very unreliable unit. 4d6 movement is going to be great on average but at times it will also be terrible, so it becomes hard to make plans when movement is so uncertain. On the flipside it has to potential to roll high and get into a position your opponent doesnt expect. It's similar with the shooting. 1d6 shooting is pretty bad, 2d6 is good on overcharge, but it is still unreliable for the same reasons above. Good if you roll high, bad if you roll low worse if you roll low and get doubles (snake eyes suck). This also makes it a risky target for our engineer buffs as their efficiency is variable based on how you roll. All of that said, the randomness also makes it a really fun and unique option. I still want to run 3+ in a list one day when i find the time to build and paint more (they are a punish). When I take a single one, I tend to try and put it through a gnawhole and get into the back field. It ends up being a distraction piece that can actually do a bit of damage if your opponent chooses to ignore it. It's rarely been MVP outside of meeting engagement, but its always been useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulkes Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Casual good is still not horrible and gives me some hope for running a few. Does the formation with the Doomwheel in it help any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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