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37 minutes ago, Drcrabs said:

That is true we can definitely burn them alive... back to dead-dead?!... yes-yes!

But I think the only reason I didn't mention them in my post was probably because I was thinking of how to take a list that adapts to a meta change like the way the Bonereapers are effecting the meta but also to still take into consideration about other armies and I feel as though the warp flamers only really work on other horde like armies, and of course specifically bonereapers, but they don't seem as effective against smaller multi wound elite armies.

But yea that is something we should consider about bringing to the table if the bonereaper population gets out of control and we accept that warp flamers less effective usage when dealing with other armies but consider it worth it.

I’ve  been using two of those weapon tea

s in the last few battles and even attended with them on some tournaments.

now they aren’t specifically great at killing elite few model counting units, but can in this situation, be your objective holders, which worked incredibly in some of those match ups.

knowing how well of a defensive these  bonereapers can be and how the competitive bonereaper players love their catapults, having a few  of these flamers isn’t a bad idea.

considering that the bonereaper player will usually have 40-60 foot soldiers, who’ll be his objective holders, he will mostly be outnumber by us skavenplayers, which is Why they usually try to focus those low bravery/armored infantry down with their catapults.

But the decision can be so much harder when your buddy or foe has something that can literally whip out a unit,

this is basically where your weapon teams  come in.

with their huge damage potential a bonereaper player will want to target him, but will have trouble deciding to go full out onto the weapon or resolve the attacks on different targets, which can get extremely risky, which will usually result to a full out shooting attack on those weapon teams.

an a turn of shooting that isn’t used on your own objective holder is a possible victory for you my friend😉😁

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

now they aren’t specifically great at killing elite few model counting units, but can in this situation, be your objective holders, which worked incredibly in some of those match ups.

knowing how well of a defensive these  bonereapers can be and how the competitive bonereaper players love their catapults, having a few  of these flamers isn’t a bad idea.

 

Two very good points actually. I especially dread that catapult as it can easily flatten whole units at a time and the 36'' range makes it able to target many units.

 

I think I may pick up a few warpfire throwers now just incase. I'm planning on running 3 ratling guns anyways and could swap two out for two warpfire throwers and I wouldn't have to change up my list at all luckily. I do love the options we can bring to the table as Skaven, it makes us pretty flexible.

Edit: And like you said more objective holders the better.

Edited by Drcrabs

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5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I'll be getting 2-4 games in this weekend taking Fiends with Bridge again.. but even last weekend I'm not sure how I feel about it anymore. It worked with 9 as you had a higher wounds buffer against whatever hit them (unless you got a double going into T2 which is generally what you go for with these lists) but now.. yeah, they can get wiped off the board easier and have less firepower.

I think they could be a good complement, but are you suggesting using them with or without the Bridge? Cause yeah, I would love to send them across the Bridge with them as you suggested but wholly within 6" could be a hassle to fit within range with 6 Fiends and 2 Ratlings and an Engineer. I dunno.. could work. I can't really test as I'm not about to go out and convert up 2 Ratlings (hate the current model) but yeah, math-wise it checks out nicely. 

Yea sending weaponsnteams through on the bridge. 

I havent had enough playtime with the bridge yet so it is theory hammer for me unfortunately. Fitting it all within 6 is what i was concerned about But the ratling teams are quite small and I think getting 1 or 2 across shouldnt be too hard. 

Needs testing though because i have heard how tricky the bridge can be to play with. I just really like the mobility and options the bridge gives us though, so I'm really hoping to make it work.  

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@Gwendar is it really that hard to fit things within 6 of the bridge.  Is it at all possible to get 6 fiends over and then have clanrats in front to screen? 

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15 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

@Gwendar is it really that hard to fit things within 6 of the bridge.  Is it at all possible to get 6 fiends over and then have clanrats in front to screen? 

Wholly within 6", so yeah it can be. You can fit the 6 Fiends 1 in front of the other (so think 2x3) but 20 Clanrats as well is..eh.

Not that it can't be done, could just be cumbersome, and yeah I'm sure 2 Ratling teams would be alright. I usually want the Fiends to come over the Bridge as far in front as possible for the best range.. ideally you auto run Clanrats 14" to try to get them in front, though you're probably not going to be able if you setup the Bridge right at the max range.

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13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Wholly within 6", so yeah it can be. You can fit the 6 Fiends 1 in front of the other (so think 2x3) but 20 Clanrats as well is..eh.

Not that it can't be done, could just be cumbersome, and yeah I'm sure 2 Ratling teams would be alright. I usually want the Fiends to come over the Bridge as far in front as possible for the best range.. ideally you auto run Clanrats 14" to try to get them in front, though you're probably not going to be able if you setup the Bridge right at the max range.

Sounds a bit janky. How are you finding the bridge? 

My other problem with the bridge is that if i take WLV as well, i am spending a large chunk on endless spells. In your games have you taken both and found they are worth the points investment? 

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15 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Sounds a bit janky. How are you finding the bridge? 

My other problem with the bridge is that if i take WLV as well, i am spending a large chunk on endless spells. In your games have you taken both and found they are worth the points investment? 

Not as great now that Fiends max out at 6, but still useful. I'm testing different lists out over the coming weeks to see if I like it or not.

WLV is always worth it to me if you have the Bridge or Skitterleap.. without those though, eh. I usually won't bring it. The amount of damage alone that it can do is absolutely worth it's 100 points.

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15 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Not as great now that Fiends max out at 6, but still useful. I'm testing different lists out over the coming weeks to see if I like it or not.

WLV is always worth it to me if you have the Bridge or Skitterleap.. without those though, eh. I usually won't bring it. The amount of damage alone that it can do is absolutely worth it's 100 points.

Yea I am yet to have a game where the WLV hasn't made its points back, just must harder to deliver it and I find it usually comes into play t2-3 now rather than t1. 

When you combo it with the bridge, what are you taking as your caster? If I send over a standard engineer with the fiends I only get one cast, which means I have to choose to cast WLV or MMMWP. I think arch warlock is a better option here, but I usually find it hard to find the points for it. I like having two engineers in my lists for redundancy.

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18 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Yea I am yet to have a game where the WLV hasn't made its points back, just must harder to deliver it and I find it usually comes into play t2-3 now rather than t1. 

When you combo it with the bridge, what are you taking as your caster? If I send over a standard engineer with the fiends I only get one cast, which means I have to choose to cast WLV or MMMWP. I think arch warlock is a better option here, but I usually find it hard to find the points for it. I like having two engineers in my lists for redundancy.

Which is fine.. if you wanna get it in their deployment T1 just bring a source of Skitterleap as I've mentioned before, then you can bail out with the Gnawhole. It's one reason I usually set them up on both sides of the table more than 9" from their deployment and my main wherever I plan to deploy heavily. Even if you can't, by t2/3 some people may have forgotten about it and they bunch half their units up right in front of you (happened in my Sylvaneth game last Sunday) and you couldn't ask for a better target. 

No matter what, WLV is always cast with an AW/Engineer/Bombardier for me because the Spark rerolls combined with the +1 from the Gnawhole is the best mathematical option next to Thanquol and +1. I always have at least 3-5 casts per list.. so it's never an issue for me to get off Bridge, MMMWP and WLV when I bring an AW.. which I always try to do with a Bridge + WLV setup. He's always worth the points for me personally.

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2 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Which is fine.. if you wanna get it in their deployment T1 just bring a source of Skitterleap as I've mentioned before, then you can bail out with the Gnawhole. It's one reason I usually set them up on both sides of the table more than 9" from their deployment and my main wherever I plan to deploy heavily. Even if you can't, by t2/3 some people may have forgotten about it and they bunch half their units up right in front of you (happened in my Sylvaneth game last Sunday) and you couldn't ask for a better target. 

No matter what, WLV is always cast with an AW/Engineer/Bombardier for me because the Spark rerolls combined with the +1 from the Gnawhole is the best mathematical option next to Thanquol and +1. I always have at least 3-5 casts per list.. so it's never an issue for me to get off Bridge, MMMWP and WLV when I bring an AW.. which I always try to do with a Bridge + WLV setup. He's always worth the points for me personally.

Yea I've done the skitterleap gnawhole combo a few times before. 

I guess I'll have to fit the AW back into my list if I'm running the WLV and Bridge combo. 

I think you are right about the value of the AW. I have just tried skimming my lists a bit to fit more in and perhaps wrongfully cut the AW in favour of and engineer. 

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9 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Yea I've done the skitterleap gnawhole combo a few times before. 

I guess I'll have to fit the AW back into my list if I'm running the WLV and Bridge combo. 

I think you are right about the value of the AW. I have just tried skimming my lists a bit to fit more in and perhaps wrongfully cut the AW in favour of and engineer. 

Just as an example, my Hero list 90% of the time looks like this: AW, Engineer, Bell OR 2x Engineer, Bell, Grey Seer on Foot. Either way I can still fit 60-80 Clanrats, Bridge, WLV, 6 Fiends and generally another unit or two like 9 Jezzails or 40 Monks... etc etc.

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My problem is I take warpseer in my lists. Which also means i take an extra CP so i dont get nailed turn 1. I need to get my bell made because that will free up some points. I do love the warpseer though and still get a lot of value out of it 

I'll be keen to hear how your testing goes over the weekend though. I dont have heaps of time for games with a newborn so a lot of list theorizing for me unfortunately :(

Edited by fishwaffle2232
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6 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Just as an example, my Hero list 90% of the time looks like this: AW, Engineer, Bell OR 2x Engineer, Bell, Grey Seer on Foot. Either way I can still fit 60-80 Clanrats, Bridge, WLV, 6 Fiends and generally another unit or two like 9 Jezzails or 40 Monks... etc etc.

Interesting. So with that many casters what kind of spells do you typically try to get of?
The Bridge and WLV from what you've been saying, and then?

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5 hours ago, gronnelg said:

Interesting. So with that many casters what kind of spells do you typically try to get of?
The Bridge and WLV from what you've been saying, and then?

AW: WLV\MMMWP, Engineer: Bridge, Bell\Grey Seer: Death Frenzy\Skitterleap. With the remaining you could throw out another Endless, Warscroll Spell, Realm Spell... or just AB\MS.

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I have a 2k local tournament coming soon and I was hoping you could help me decide which list to take:

1#

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
- Lore of Ruin: Plague
Lord Skreech Verminking (320)
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning
Grey Seer (140)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114

 

 

2#

Allegiance: Skaventide
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Savage Overlord
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Plague Harbingers
3 x Warplock Jezzails (140)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161

 

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Well.. was thinking a bit today and I'll have 3 games this weekend, and I'm planning to do the following for all or at least 2 of them:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vermintide (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 191
 

No WLV, no Bridge.. just bodies, magic, CC and shooting. And starting with a CP. Worth nothing you could sub out Vermintide or 20 Clanrats for Cogs/whatever else you want. Curious to see how it goes.

 

 

Also, @grucha I prefer the 2nd but.. I'd swap the Jezzails for something. 3 Jezzails will do next to nothing. You'd be better off bringing WLV + Vermintide for the same cost... Though you'll obviously only be able to cast 2 endless spells per turn, but yeah.

Edited by Gwendar

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1 hour ago, grucha said:

I have a 2k local tournament coming soon and I was hoping you could help me decide which list to take:


 

Me personally, I like list #2 because it has more bodies and that is my usual preference. Though if you choose that list I would think to suggest to find a way to get in another hero, Engineer more then likely, to cast MMMWP and possibly find some protection via trait and or item. Could give the AW the Verminous Valour trait and since I noticed you don't seem to have a magic item in that list you could also give him either Ignax's Scales for more protection or you could get the Vigordust Injector to beef up the Stormfiends even more. If you consider this and need to find points for it I would consider possibly dropping the jezzails.

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18 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Well.. was thinking a bit today and I'll have 3 games this weekend, and I'm planning to do the following for all or at least 2 of them:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vermintide (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 191
 

No WLV, no Bridge.. just bodies, magic, CC and shooting. And starting with a CP. Worth nothing you could sub out Vermintide or 20 Clanrats for Cogs/whatever else you want. Curious to see how it goes.

 

I really dig this list but thats probably because it's pretty similar to what I proposed in my list earlier. I know from reading here that you were thinking about putting together a list like this for a bit ever since the Stormfiend change and it gave me inspiration towards my list building.  Please do let us know how it goes as I'm still in the building and painting stages and I want to see some success with this style.

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@Drcrabs Yeah, it's largely what I ran with back in the first few months of the tomes release but.. slowly drifted away from it in favor of Monks (which I didn't run before) and Fiends.

You have 3 central threats and they can all be used for different tasks; Acolytes for Hordes\Elite\Behemoth deleting, Jezzails for Support Hero deleting or chipping at Elites\Behemoths.. and the Monks for, well.. nowadays I feel they're more suited to low save units, but with Death Frenzy they can handle other things reasonably well. I love my Fiends, but yeah.. once they're gone that's a lot of power presence that goes away; here I have 3. I would've liked to squeeze in a Warpseer over the Bell, but then I would lose Death Frenzy (and I absolutely need 2 Engineers for MMMWP redundancy) and I didn't feel it was quite worth it.

Like I said, I'll do some games with this and 1-2 with what I ran last Sunday since some people were interested in seeing more Fiends + Bridge action... just a bit less aggressively 😉

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@Gwendar I love that list, I feel like acolytes fell out of favour for a bit, but I know there was a bloke in Australia called Dan brewer who won a tournament with a similar style of list. The only thing that has kept me from running something similar is the need to convert up a bunch of acolytes. 

I think the 3 threats will be really hard for a lot of armies to deal with. 

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11 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

@Gwendar I love that list, I feel like acolytes fell out of favour for a bit, but I know there was a bloke in Australia called Dan brewer who won a tournament with a similar style of list. The only thing that has kept me from running something similar is the need to convert up a bunch of acolytes. 

I think the 3 threats will be really hard for a lot of armies to deal with. 

Right, Dan won the masters with it and that was shortly after the tome release.. but like you said, it kind of fell out of favor for 9 Fiend\2-3x40 Monk lists. With Fiends and Monks effectively nerfed, I think we can potentially bring this back; time will tell. Lots of 6 Fiend lists at LVO and Cancon last I saw.. I like Dan Corcoran's list with 12 Jezzails, 6 Fiends and 2 WLC's 😅

All in all I think we're trying to figure out where we will fit in the current meta after the Fiend and Monk changes... as well as all the new competition. It's worth noting the lack of Bridges in both tournaments even with the Fiends, so I think they're being played less aggressively than before (which you could do because you would 100% wipe 1-2 units off the table per turn, now it's less so) and I think it could be why we start shifting away from "eggs in 1 basket" styled approaches when these 12+ Flamer\shooty CoS lists start gaining traction.

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