AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Nevar]

2 minutes ago, bushman101 said:

Can we talk about the StormFiends load out?

If I'm reading it right, we can mix weapons as long as it's not more than 1/3 of the unit.

So we could mix melee centric models with shooty models (which I dont think we could have done via the Chaos book).

In extreme, I could have a 6 man unit with 1 of each loadout, correct?

Correct.

 

I have my own question for everyone.  I keep seeing people reference Stormvermin as battleline, are they battle line for Clan Verminus, or are they general battle line for Skaventide?

Also, am I the only one who doesn't see any real reason to take an Arch Warlock over a standard Warlock?  I realize the Arch Warlock has +1 wound and a 3+ save, but the Arch's spell targets d3 units for a casting of 7, and the Warlock's targets one unit for a casting of 5.  Both have the same damage potential, and the lesser Warlock has a pistol he can plink away with.  Arch can cast 2 spells, but at the same time if Warlocks are mainly support for other Skryre units, you would want more of them scattered about as opposed to one beefier one in one location.

I feel like the buffs the Arch gets is easily worth the 40+ points over the lesser Warlock... but even so I feel like those buffs are not what we would want to our warp stone addicted buff characters.  Those points could go to better use in Warpfire teams for instance...

Lastly from what I can gather, if I play SKAVENTIDE, I can use all skaven units without worry of allied points, thus making a truly mixed Skaven army.  However, as SKAVENTIDE, my battleline requirements are Clan Rats and(?) Stormvermin?

[Skreech Verminking]

@Nevar your correct Stormvermins are battleline in a Skaventide army.

 

[sorokyl]

4 hours ago, bushman101 said:

Can we talk about the StormFiends load out?

If I'm reading it right, we can mix weapons as long as it's not more than 1/3 of the unit.

 So we could mix melee centric models with shooty models (which I dont think we could have done via the Chaos book).

In extreme, I could have a 6 man unit with 1 of each loadout, correct?

Before, if you had a unit of 6, you could have any combination of weapons.  that's a LOT of combinations (sorry i don't know the formula for that).... 
Now, for a unit of 6 you can only have a max 2 of each weapon AND only 2 of each group of 2 weapons (each model is designed to take 1 of 2 weapons). I don't know the formula for that either, but it is a small fraction of the other number.

Yes, you can have 1 of each loadout. That is really probably the least competitive option though (master of none)

[sorokyl]

4 hours ago, Nevar said:

Also, am I the only one who doesn't see any real reason to take an Arch Warlock over a standard Warlock? 

6

I like the model a lot better=)  Also the engineer and bombardier are both easily sniped. Arch-Warlock is sensitive to mortal wounds but is a lot more survivable otherwise. The extra spell is also worth 60 points alone I think, especially if using endless spells. 

[Kirjava13]

6 hours ago, Coyote said:

I got the reference but what was the Gnawbomb?

It's an Eshin artefact that lets you turn a piece of terrain into a Gnawhole for a turn.

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, Nevar said:

Arch can cast 2 spells, but at the same time if Warlocks are mainly support for other Skryre units, you would want more of them scattered about as opposed to one beefier one in one location.

And here you give your own answer (partlly).  It's all down to what you want from that hero slot. I can imagine taking him over say a command point extra, because having him near 2/3 WLC's means it's harder to snipe him than the Warplock. Or closer to the frontline that extra spell can be very handy but if your only llooking for that spellcaster you're probably better off  with a grey seer. (and for 40 points more on a bell and quite survivable as well). 

He's less a must have like he was previously but still quite good I think. Especially if you go all Skryre it's the only survivable hero with that keyword (although you can again choose a Bell if that fits better).

6 hours ago, Nevar said:

Lastly from what I can gather, if I play SKAVENTIDE, I can use all skaven units without worry of allied points, thus making a truly mixed Skaven army.  However, as SKAVENTIDE, my battleline requirements are Clan Rats and(?) Stormvermin?

Yeah all Skaven units have that key-word as far as I can tell so yes. Everything with SKAVENTIDE is good. And yes if everything has the SKAVENTIDE keyword Stormvermin are battleline

[Kugane]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:22 PM, Russrmc said:

 

made backpacks for my acolytes today- aiming to print the first kit tests off by the weekend

Awesome! Really good job. Any chance you'd be willing to share a printable file? i would love to use these as a conversion.

[Kugane]

Does anyone have the exact sizes of the gnawholes? Perhaps we can simply make our own to save a few hobby dollars.

[Lobeau]

7 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Does anyone have the exact sizes of the gnawholes? Perhaps we can simply make our own to save a few hobby dollars.

Someone a few pages back was saying 5-5.5inches.

[Kugane]

Just now, Lobeau said:

Someone a few pages back was saying 5-5.5inches.

Thank you very much.  I missed it (cellphone scrolling). Time to take out the bitbox in that case :).

[Lobeau]

Just now, Kugane said:

Thank you very much.  I missed it (cellphone scrolling). Time to take out the bitbox in that case :).

No problem. I'm looking to kit bash one into my dreadstone blight scenery if I can make it fit. It seems like a perfect fit aesthetically.

[Kugane]

2 minutes ago, Lobeau said:

No problem. I'm looking to kit bash one into my dreadstone blight scenery if I can make it fit. It seems like a perfect fit aesthetically.

I personally want to create something that looks more like a cave with green glow coming out of it. With some skaven aesthetics. Its what i always imagined a gnawhole to be like somehow lol.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

Does anyone have the exact sizes of the gnawholes? Perhaps we can simply make our own to save a few hobby dollars.

Same here. What are your concepts?

I'm inspired mostly by the lore that every clan has it's own way. But they should all be secretive and Skaven-y So for now my concepts are:
Moulder uses giant beasts to tunnel between realities so i'm calling a mole hill with a periscope sticking out. Add a few skulls to give it that nice Skaven mix of humor and grim.
Skryre use big drills to burrow Gnawholes, so a drill coming out of the ground sounds cool. But I think it might be to close to my Moulder concept. 
Verminus they're everywhere and coming out of the walls! So i'm making an abandoned well for them with a little bit of green glow in there and 'subtle' markers left by the rats
Masterclan: Behind the throne reserved for the Great Horned Rat in the council of thirteen there is a black alcove with a hidden Gnawhole. So inspired by that, and to match my current terrain project, i'm making a hollowed out tree with in it a deep black alcove and some warpstone littering. Think tree hit by lightning.

Eshin i'm stuck on. But only need three but eventualy if the inspiration comes i'll make one for every clan.... except:

Pestilens i'm leaving out because they never interested me and i'm not playing them  

[Skavelynn]

10 hours ago, Nevar said:

Also, am I the only one who doesn't see any real reason to take an Arch Warlock over a standard Warlock?  I realize the Arch Warlock has +1 wound and a 3+ save, but the Arch's spell targets d3 units for a casting of 7, and the Warlock's targets one unit for a casting of 5.  Both have the same damage potential, and the lesser Warlock has a pistol he can plink away with.  Arch can cast 2 spells, but at the same time if Warlocks are mainly support for other Skryre units, you would want more of them scattered about as opposed to one beefier one in one location.

I'm wondering what the Arch Warlock is going to be used for as well. 🤔One combo I was thinking was to cast warp lightning shield, then use warpstone sparks to get rerolling on the overcharged spell. D6 mortal wounds on up to 3 targets is very strong, the warp lightning shield would protect the arch warlock against the warpstone sparks self damage if it occurs. Still would be risky though, the reroll isn't a guaranteed success but it helps lower the chance of failing. The spell's self-damage is just way too high...I think Grey Seers and regular Warlock Engineers will be used far more, they're cheaper and provide similar or more support for less pts. Grey Seers can even be used in skryre armies as the general

[Kugane]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

Same here. What are your concepts?

I'm inspired mostly by the lore that every clan has it's own way. But they should all be secretive and Skaven-y So for now my concepts are:
Moulder uses giant beasts to tunnel between realities so i'm calling a mole hill with a periscope sticking out. Add a few skulls to give it that nice Skaven mix of humor and grim.
Skryre use big drills to burrow Gnawholes, so a drill coming out of the ground sounds cool. But I think it might be to close to my Moulder concept. 
Verminus they're everywhere and coming out of the walls! So i'm making an abandoned well for them with a little bit of green glow in there and 'subtle' markers left by the rats
Masterclan: Behind the throne reserved for the Great Horned Rat in the council of thirteen there is a black alcove with a hidden Gnawhole. So inspired by that, and to match my current terrain project, i'm making a hollowed out tree with in it a deep black alcove and some warpstone littering. Think tree hit by lightning.

Eshin i'm stuck on. But only need three but eventualy if the inspiration comes i'll make one for every clan.... except:

Pestilens i'm leaving out because they never interested me and i'm not playing them  

I was imagining a cave where they secretly burrow out of. I like the well and skryre idea. If we can find some cheap drill toys in a dollar shop could create a drill similar to what genestealers use and cover it mostly with dirt. Alternatively, a giant warpstone grinder is easy to cut out of a giant piece of foam as well.

[Overread]

They don't have to be set into terrain as such. They are Rips through reality and so they could be free-standing tears in reality itself. Magical edges denoting the boundary where reality and the gnawhole. 

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

17 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

I'm wondering what the Arch Warlock is going to be used for as well. 🤔One combo I was thinking was to cast warp lightning shield, then use warpstone sparks to get rerolling on the overcharged spell. D6 mortal wounds on up to 3 targets is very strong, the warp lightning shield would protect the arch warlock against the warpstone sparks self damage if it occurs. Still would be risky though, the reroll isn't a guaranteed success but it helps lower the chance of failing. The spell's self-damage is just way too high...I think Grey Seers and regular Warlock Engineers will be used far more, they're cheaper and provide similar or more support for less pts. Grey Seers can even be used in skryre armies as the general

I think the Arch warlock is a great damage dealer and can buff your Tripp’s significantly up in a Skryre armie.

in a more mixed Skaventide armie, where the Skryre weapons and unit are  a bit less included( or your just using warpflamers like me) , the Grey seer will be the better option for the armie.

but still all of the wizards in our faction are great on their own way.

there are so many possibilities of building list and the Arch warlock will definitely find use in many of them.

[Mcthew]

28 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I think the Arch warlock is a great damage dealer and can buff your Tripp’s significantly up in a Skryre armie.

in a more mixed Skaventide armie, where the Skryre weapons and unit are  a bit less included( or your just using warpflamers like me) , the Grey seer will be the better option for the armie.

but still all of the wizards in our faction are great on their own way.

there are so many possibilities of building list and the Arch warlock will definitely find use in many of them.

For me it’s the saving throw, the damage it can deal and the level 2 spell casting that makes the Archwarlock  a tough sonova and helpful to have not just for a heavy Skryre force.

The warlocks, on the other hand, can be taken out relatively easily can only cast one specific spell, not the range of spells open to other wizards, and that makes them limited.

Still, I’m gonna field them both this Friday with a Skaventide force to see how they might work out ... against Tzeentch.

gulp 😱

[Kramer]

43 minutes ago, Overread said:

They don't have to be set into terrain as such. They are Rips through reality and so they could be free-standing tears in reality itself. Magical edges denoting the boundary where reality and the gnawhole. 

 

 

Could be, but I find modelling a rip in reality such pain  

But as a genuine answer, comparing the fluff to the models that’s exactly what’s wrong in my view. If it’s a rip in reality why then build a small three stone high wall around it with scaffolding? it’s a magical rip in space! Surely it doesn’t need to be contained by a small wall. 

Or it’s a crafted gateway like described in the fluff but then I find the magical vortex to on the nose for my taste. 

So to me the models don’t represent what i envision when reading the narrative in any way. Again could also be a rip in space but then I need something very different than some stones, scaffolding with some green swirley soup in it. 

But of course this is all personal and I’m not trying to hurt somebody else’s enthousiasm, so I’ll stop complaining now  

[Pandamina]

Hi guys, will this be competitive with new book? Some bodies with battleshock immunity, shooting with rerolls and +1 damage, lots of mortal wounds with nice casting bonuses. Love Warpseer model and Skryre theme btw. 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 174
 

[Overread]

Even if the Gnawhole is a random ripe in space it makes sense that if Skaven are using it as an established point they would fortify it. As the gnawholes appear on the battlefield in advance of the start of the battle one can assume they are forward fortifications that the skaven have established whilst bringing their army through for combat. So it would make sense that they've had a few moments to more formally establish them. It might even be that the rocks with runs and such helps stabilize the Gnawhole so that it can remain operation for longer and with more reliability for the Skaven. 

[Kramer]

@Pandamina Looks like a fun gunline list. I'm personally not sold on the effectiveness of the Jezzails. But they are very cool models, very cool potential, just don't think you can count enough on them for very competitive play. And then 420 points is a lot  Also with two blocks of 40 clanrats you might want to invest in a clawlord, then those squads are quite the thread with his support. 

@Overread sure could be... but that's an interpretation on you part, Skaven fortifying it. Them hiding that point feels far more in line with the fluff to me. And to continue on that, Skaven don't use any stone as building material in any other model*. It's all ransacked or crumbled as basing. Most things build by Skaven are with crappy metal, wood and rope. So i'll say it again. To ME the model has a too big of a disconnect with what the lore describes. 
*Although I can understand that people see the screaming bell kit arch as something build by Skaven to me it looks like they ripped a bell arch straight out of the ground somewhere. 

[Overread]

@Kramer considering how they live underground and often war with the dwarves and goblins I would wager that skaven very much do build with stone. There's really nothing that should stop them from building with the material. Whilst they won't be building grand sculptures like the dwarves will; and that they are more likely to take over settlements;  I can't see any reason for Skaven not to be building using the material. I doubt that the whole of Skavenbilght is built upon wood (they'd burn the place down in a weekend if it were all wood); nor metal (although the realm of metal does at least give plausible high yields of material to work with). 

 

As for the structures remember that the Gnawholes are a known feature of the battlefield; setup after the terrain, but before armies are moved into place. The enemy very much knows where the Gnawholes are as they establish themselves on the battlefield. Indeed its part of their threat in that they can change how an opponent might deploy  to deal with the aspect that you might pop a unit right out of one right in a key location. A unit of Stormvermin popping up suddenly right in the middle of the map where your opponent was going to position their archers is a big risk that might make them put them somewhere else. Even if you never use the gnawhole its still a tactical element opponents have to work with. 

[Skreech Verminking]

Like @Overread just said, the Gnawholes are meant to scare your enemy’s.

even if you use them or don’t, the possibility of a unit of Stormvermins or something much worse bobing up behind enemy lines will change their whole aspect of the set up.

also there are a few tactical advantages with ‘em.

set those gnawholes near an objective marker up, and you may control it turn 1.

Still not wanting them isn’t bad either since they aren’t really necessary like the moonshrine or the beast statue, the beasts of chaos use. We have enough shenanigans, where the gnawholes can easily be left at home.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Like @Overread just said, the Gnawholes are meant to scare your enemy’s.

even if you use them or don’t, the possibility of a unit of Stormvermins or something much worse bobing up behind enemy lines will change their whole aspect of the set up.

also there are a few tactical advantages with ‘em.

set those gnawholes near an objective marker up, and you may control it turn 1.

Still not wanting them isn’t bad either since they aren’t really necessary like the moonshrine or the beast statue, the beasts of chaos use. We have enough shenanigans, where the gnawholes can easily be left at home.

 

 

Haha but that was in no way my argument  I never said I don't like them rulewise (although I do think the 8" within board edge is a big hindrance but needed probably). I just don't like the models... I know I know it's heresy   That's why I want to convert something cool, and was hoping to have some inspiring conversations in the thread about alternative concepts. 

1 hour ago, Overread said:

@Kramer considering how they live underground and often war with the dwarves and goblins I would wager that skaven very much do build with stone. There's really nothing that should stop them from building with the material. Whilst they won't be building grand sculptures like the dwarves will; and that they are more likely to take over settlements;  I can't see any reason for Skaven not to be building using the material. I doubt that the whole of Skavenbilght is built upon wood (they'd burn the place down in a weekend if it were all wood); nor metal (although the realm of metal does at least give plausible high yields of material to work with). 

There is a reason I said this, model being the keyword:

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Skaven don't use any stone as building material in any other model

I don't like the look. And you can argue all kinds of other stuff but that aint changing. In MY view it will remain a mismatch in style, lazy designing that they are that similar in design, and totally not in line with the what the fluff let me to believe. 

1 hour ago, Overread said:

As for the structures remember that the Gnawholes are a known feature of the battlefield; setup after the terrain, but before armies are moved into place. The enemy very much knows where the Gnawholes are as they establish themselves on the battlefield. Indeed its part of their threat in that they can change how an opponent might deploy  to deal with the aspect that you might pop a unit right out of one right in a key location. A unit of Stormvermin popping up suddenly right in the middle of the map where your opponent was going to position their archers is a big risk that might make them put them somewhere else. Even if you never use the gnawhole its still a tactical element opponents have to work with. 

Just like above. I like the discussion, but then don't drag other things into it. This was never about the rules and know it becomes this whole convoluted conversation with all kind of things dragged into it. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Kramer