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How have people found Verminous based builds? Interesting in trying one out

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On 10/29/2019 at 8:41 AM, Aelford said:

What are your thoughts on this list? It should be quite fun competing in all the phases. 


Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Plague
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal Fury
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

40 x Stormvermin (450)
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
The Burning Head (30)

It has a stable core with double bell etc. and can definitely work.

I personally wouldn't play Stormvermin in a tournament unless they come down 50 points. The difference to Plague Monks in terms of efficiency is just too great. I wouldn't want to discourage you from trying them yourself though! They are great models, Verminous based builds have a unique kind of flair and are aesthetically pleasing.

I'm not sure why you included Burning Head. With 30 points you could also get Palisade or Gravetide and Maelstrom, which provide better utility. Brutal Fury is debatable and usually the go to trait for Warbringers. It might surprise some people if he actually gets to fight, but overall Verminous Valour is just more beneficial if you want to use the Clawlord as a buff piece.

 

Overall Clan Verminous unfortunately isn't all that competitive at the moment. There are some lists like the Thanquol - Clawlord on Brood Horror command point spam with a dozen attacks on your Stormvermin (or Clanrats: if you roll 300 dice you will inevitably do damage). I fear that it would need a rework of the Clawhorde battalion   and Stormvermin cost reduction. They are however still way ahead of Moulder and in particular Eshin as a stand alone clan.

-----------------------------

Since a lot of new battletomes appeared recently, how do people find our new competitors from a Skaven perspective? Personally all the new destruction books don't change a whole lot in terms of gameplay. If your list could handle an aggressive melee army like Slanesh before, it can do well against Warclans/Mawtribes as well.

Time will tell what Cities lists will actually be good since they have so many possible playstyles. The only thing I'm really afraid of are Mortek Crawlers. Taking out Engineers or generally all our support characters as well as decimating things with low bravery. Having half of my Jezzails slain with a 42" threat range is ... annoying. I'm not sure how popular this unit and army will be but it might require some changes to lists (e.g. Palisade, Deceiver).

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8 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

There are some lists like the Thanquol - Clawlord on Brood Horror command point spam

How does this work?

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10 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

Time will tell what Cities lists will actually be good since they have so many possible playstyles. The only thing I'm really afraid of are Mortek Crawlers. Taking out Engineers or generally all our support characters as well as decimating things with low bravery. Having half of my Jezzails slain with a 42" threat range is ... annoying. I'm not sure how popular this unit and army will be but it might require some changes to lists (e.g. Palisade, Deceiver).

Currently building a competitive TE alpha-strike list with Pistoliers and buying all my Ossiarch stuff next week once I have some lists figured out. A few people around me are also throwing around CoS lists and at least 1 other person is doing Ossiarchs so... I'll likely have plenty to say playing against and as both armies a lot more here shortly.

I think you will likely see the Crawler in a high portion of lists as it's just 200 points. Granted it's in an elite army with high costs, but what it brings for that kind of cost is incredible. I can say that Petrifex will likely be the most popular legion (the one that gives +1 saves to everything) and will have pretty much the whole army on 2+ or 3+. Of course, Fiends don't care as much about that but the army is quite resilient as a whole and seems like it will generally win in attrition. As for CoS... yeah, hard to say as it's such a mish-mash. Most popular will likely be heavy shooting TE lists (with\without bridge) or HH.. though I think Living City is the one to watch out for over HH.

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Well I mean at least the ossiarch Bonereapers can’t come back from the dead like legion of anything reapers or other elite ghost unit in any legion army

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Hi! I'm sitting here saying to myself:

"can you make a good list using all units from 2x SC boxes in 2k?" 

40x PM=Awesome. 2x bells seems to be a thing in some lists I see here. But how about the 2x canons? 

I'd like a competitive 2k shooty list. With all the units from the 2 SC boxes...jezzels,fiends or whatever works best. The Clanrat (20/20/20) BL seems like a good route? 

I would love some help with building a 2k list! What heroes to use, articafts and so on! 

Side question. Were do people go to find tournament lists? Is there like a good website for that or something (noob) 

Got a whole army in the cart and ready to click "buy" 💣👏

Edited by Kimbo
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Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
- General
- Trait: Brutal Fury
- Artefact: Things-Bane

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
10 x Stormvermin (120)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (120)
- Halberd & Shield

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 1x Icon of Pestilence
- 1x Contagion Banner
- 1x Doom Gongs
- 1x Bale Chimes
3 x Stormfiends (260)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

This weekend I'm bringing this list against a friend who's playing the new Ogors book. Does anybody know about anything ogor I should be particularly weary of?  Any other input or tips?

Ps. The stormvermin are only there because I don't have enough clanrats yet :P

Edited by gronnelg

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@States You need supreme manipulator, which gives 5/9 command points (CP) back whenever a masterclan hero uses a command ability (CA). Aetherquartz broosh as your artifact gives you 1/3 CP back whenever a CP is spent.

You start with Thanquol's CA, which gives you back 1/3 + 5/9 = 8/9.

If you use 1 of the free CA's you get 5/9 back, for 2 CA's 10/9, for 3 15/9. So in total if you use two you earn 1 CP for each time Thanquol uses his CA.

Note that you can always use Inspiring Presence since it gives immunity but has no other requirements. A charge doesn't have to be undertaken, so you can just re-roll it whenever a unit is in range.

The reason you amass these CP's is to spend them on the Clawlord on Brood Horror. Contrary to the regular Clawlord his CA doesn't have any restriction on how often you can use it on a unit. 😊

I saw a list a couple (30? 40?) pages back from a tournament in the US where a lad did quite well with it. If you build lists that meet all the requirements you notice that you are incredibly stretched for points because you need some heavy point sinks: Thanquol, 2-3 masterclan heroes, CLoBH, probably Stormvermin. Once any of the heroes die, the combo starts to lose effectiveness or in the case of the CLoBH crumbles entirely. Also a turn 1 alpha strike list that boxes you in and forces you to use the CP's for extra attacks instead of spending them on Thanquol also breaks the combo.

 

@Gwendar I don't play CoS but some lists look really fun and tempting, like pistoleer/demigryph cav builds. Bridge synergizes so splendidly with most of the shooters that I believe this will prove the most effective (contrary to the GF artillery builds which just have a very sad damage output by comparison). HH just doesn't seem frightening enough as a pure magic list.

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@Kimbo Thankfully the Skaven SC is insanely useful for starting an army. This is 1620 pt and the only thing you need are 4 boxes of Clanrats (they will always come in handy). The Bombardier can be converted from pretty much anything as long as you give him something that looks like a rocket, e.g. mine from a Cannon kit
Spoiler

Bombardier.jpg.0829ce6f1cef438d3a1c0a889f2cd44e.jpg

 


Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
Warlock Bombardier (100) (or Arch-Warlock or Engineer if you don't want to convert)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
 
From here you can just move in any direction really. Remove 1 Cannon and put 6 Stormfiends in and you have a balanced tournament list etc. Really solid foundation.
 
Edited by Ineffectual Clawlord
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1 hour ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

@States You need supreme manipulator, which gives 5/9 command points (CP) back whenever a masterclan hero uses a command ability (CA). Aetherquartz broosh as your artifact gives you 1/3 CP back whenever a CP is spent.

You start with Thanquol's CA, which gives you back 1/3 + 5/9 = 8/9.

If you use 1 of the free CA's you get 5/9 back, for 2 CA's 10/9, for 3 15/9. So in total if you use two you earn 1 CP for each time Thanquol uses his CA.

Note that you can always use Inspiring Presence since it gives immunity but has no other requirements. A charge doesn't have to be undertaken, so you can just re-roll it whenever a unit is in range.

 

But supreme manipulator states "after this general uses a command ability". Skilled manipulator is any masterclan. 

 

Only thanquol would have the re-roll, the rest would have the 5+ roll, no?

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43 minutes ago, States said:

But supreme manipulator states "after this general uses a command ability". Skilled manipulator is any masterclan. 

 

Only thanquol would have the re-roll, the rest would have the 5+ roll, no?

Well not really, but Thanqoul would technically be the only one who can gain a command point back through the ether-quartz brooch.

but you could always take another Masterclan hero as your general, to be able to reroll his skilled manipulater trait.

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Hello fellow skaven warlords,

quick question regarding teleporting und buffs.

A while ago i read that units which are ported somewhere (e.g. Gnawholes, Ironjawz 'Hand of Gork') after receiving any buffs loose them 'cause the unit is no longer in the board (e.g. an ArchWarlock with an active warpstonebuff through a gnawhole looses bis rerolls, a unit ardboys buffed with +1dmg teleported with the hand then looses it).

Is that true or is it a wrong Info? If true where can i read up about this particular rules?

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16 minutes ago, DieterLasertheDoc said:

Hello fellow skaven warlords,

quick question regarding teleporting und buffs.

A while ago i read that units which are ported somewhere (e.g. Gnawholes, Ironjawz 'Hand of Gork') after receiving any buffs loose them 'cause the unit is no longer in the board (e.g. an ArchWarlock with an active warpstonebuff through a gnawhole looses bis rerolls, a unit ardboys buffed with +1dmg teleported with the hand then looses it).

Is that true or is it a wrong Info? If true where can i read up about this particular rules?

That is basically wrong.

if you cast like let’s say more more more warp-power onto a unit of stormfiends, They will keep that reroll of hits and wounds till your next hero phase.

doesn't matter if you teleport them.

Although If you teleport a unit through a gnawhole or any other ability,  and this unit, has some kind of a ability that grants it some

bonuses for standing still (like for example jezzails) it will gain them either way, since they didn’t move.

 

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Yeah, that rule exists in MtG not Warhammer.

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6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well I mean at least the ossiarch Bonereapers can’t come back from the dead like legion of anything reapers or other elite ghost unit in any legion army

Not an entire unit no, but they can return at least 3 Mortek models to a unit or 1 Deathrider mode to a unit. You throw in a couple Boneshapers and maybe Arkhan\Katakros and you're healing\returning a decent enough amount to multiple units. When you combine that with their army-wide BS immunity and overall resiliency (especially in the arguably most competitive Legion of Petrifex Elite giving everything +1 save) then it's a slow and grindy army. 

3 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

@Gwendar I don't play CoS but some lists look really fun and tempting, like pistoleer/demigryph cav builds. Bridge synergizes so splendidly with most of the shooters that I believe this will prove the most effective (contrary to the GF artillery builds which just have a very sad damage output by comparison). HH just doesn't seem frightening enough as a pure magic list.

I think HH was the big winner to everyone at first on paper, but through practice the last few weeks, I think that LC and TE have been the competitive winners. The alpha-strike potential from either of those setups is much better in my opinion than some +'s to cast on a more static Wizard bunker.

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I am very sorry, I can only imagine, how often this was asked, because it is kinda wonky. I am asking for a friend who is not very fluent in english, so excuse me for not studying the backlogs.

Is the following list legal? In Terms of "allying" a block of clanrats into a skryre army.

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Warpstone Armour
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
9 x Stormfiends (780)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

Units
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
- Allies

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 140
 

We understand that your general needs to be skryre or master, and your battleline as well. But not allowed to include clanrats is ... racist?... i guess.
Thanks in advance.

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No, you cannot take non-skryre skaven units as allies - we have only one ally and it's Nurgle.

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2 hours ago, States said:

But supreme manipulator states "after this general uses a command ability". Skilled manipulator is any masterclan.

Only thanquol would have the re-roll, the rest would have the 5+ roll, no?

Good catch, you are absolutely right! Aetherquartz works for every CP spent, skilled manipulator for every usage by a masterclan hero.

This changes the math quite a bit, but the general routine is still the same. I never played the build myself but rather saw that some people had success with it and believe it to be a clever mechanic. Since you always need different heroes for Thanquol's CA it require quite a bit of bookkeeping.

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4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well not really, but Thanqoul would technically be the only one who can gain a command point back through the ether-quartz brooch.

But as a named character he isn’t allowed to carry artefacts, right?

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16 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

But as a named character he isn’t allowed to carry artefacts, right?

Well thankfully the abillity of the etherquartz brooch works on all friendly heroes spending cp.

so just give it some worthless, probably soon dead grey seer.

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Im curious, what do ppl think of the warp lightning cannon? ...I can't decide if i think its good, or just average with high risk of killing itself 😅

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I've got a small collection of Skaven and im looking into starting to flesh it out into a full 2k list. Just for fun, no tournaments.

Would Moulder be a viable choice? It seems like Skyre and Pestilen get all the toys, while the other 3 languish. Especially Escher and Moulder. Would it be better off going just for a generic 'Skaventide' army and just avoid Clans entirely? I'll note that I really don't own much /besides/ Moulder at the moment. 60 Clanrats, some ogres, some packmasters, a hell pit abomination and a handful of other misc. stuff from the Isle of Blood box.

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I’ve played a 2k Moulder Army a few times now. I have Thanqoul (fits thematically) and stormfiends in my army, and recently added some Wolf Rats. It’s not very competitive and you’ll struggle to hold objectives, even with 40 giant rats,  but Rat ogres, fiends a couple of hellpit’s and boneripper make a cool looking army. 😀

Edited by Cosmicsheep

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As a new skaventide player I feel  unsure about what weapons to use on some units. What is the optimized loadout for these units currently: 

- Plauge Monks 

- Fiends 

- Clanrats (20 and/or 40 man) 

My meta generally plays optimal lists. 

Thank you in advance! 🙇‍♂️

 

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23 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

Plauge Monks 

Woe-staves and blades. More attacks.

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