AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

Welp, finished my Monks so figured I'd take some pictures of the boys. I don't have a good enough camera nor the space to show off literally everything, so this picture has a little bit of everything. And yeah, not all the bases are done.. but I always consider that the last optional step in a horde army like this; I'll get to it eventually. The Warpseer is painted more classic just because I felt like he was the best piece I did in that manner. Someday I may paint him to match, but currently I'm happy with him being the only one different. If I really wanted to lore-reason it, perhaps he's the only real one while the rest are just projections?
 

Spoiler

 

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Any input on the useability of the rat ogors? Help me out here, guys, please...

I guess it depends on the context. Are you throwing them into something purely Moulder or mixed lists? Either way I think you'll want units of at least 4-6 with a Master Moulder\Packmasters to get the +1 to hit and bravery bonus or the CA to get the unit back after it dies (though it isn't reliable on a 5+). You're looking at 200-300 points in Ogors before you even include MM\Packmasters to go with them for something that is not going to pack as much of a punch as 40 Monks for the same price or cheaper.

They can be great, sure, but currently there are just better options. I think they're best in pure Moulder to act as a hammer surrounded my other Moulder benefits. By all means though, I would love for someone to run them and see how they work out... I just doubt we're looking at the next Stormfiend craze 😅

[PiotrW]

35 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I guess it depends on the context. Are you throwing them into something purely Moulder or mixed lists? Either way I think you'll want units of at least 4-6 with a Master Moulder\Packmasters to get the +1 to hit and bravery bonus or the CA to get the unit back after it dies (though it isn't reliable on a 5+). You're looking at 200-300 points in Ogors before you even include MM\Packmasters to go with them for something that is not going to pack as much of a punch as 40 Monks for the same price or cheaper.

They can be great, sure, but currently there are just better options. I think they're best in pure Moulder to act as a hammer surrounded my other Moulder benefits. By all means though, I would love for someone to run them and see how they work out... I just doubt we're looking at the next Stormfiend craze 😅

Thanks. So, I gather that 2 Rat Ogors without a Packmaster wouldn't be much of use?

BTW. I looked at your photos... who the heck are those rats with little guns? I don't recall this unit... Also, where did you get such nice Jezzails?

Edited September 29, 2019 by PiotrW

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

Thanks. So, I gather that 2 Rat Ogors without a Packmaster wouldn't be much of use?

BTW. I looked at your photos... who the heck are those rats with little guns? I don't recall this unit... Also, where did you get such nice Jezzails?

2 on their own would make me wish I brought a 20 unit of Clanrats up to 40 for 80 points or bring along WLV\Other endless spells among other things.

And those are actually my kitbashed Acolytes and Jezzails. Both are using Stormvermin bodies and the Acolytes are holding Irondrakes since I wanted them to essentially lob the Poison Globes via a grenade launcher instead of just throwing them. Honestly required very little work since Stormvermin are already in a great 2-handed weapon pose.

The Jezzails are Adeptus Mechanicus guns and some green stuff to get the joints right.. but not too bad to do. The pavises are just a bunch of spare Clanrat shields filed down and glued together to make a big one and I took other random bits\shields to stick in front of them. Once I finish their bases I plan to have some rocks stacked up against them or something to better hide the bottom part.

[PiotrW]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

2 on their own would make me wish I brought a 20 unit of Clanrats up to 40 for 80 points or bring along WLV\Other endless spells among other things.

Hmmm. How about 2 Rat Ogors + 1 Master Moulder or Packmaster?

BTW. I've been wondering about this Packmaster from Spire Of Dawn: http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics16/img532dee2d482f6.jpg. Could he be used these days? He has a cattleprod instead of a whip, so I'm not sure he'd be legal?

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

And those are actually my kitbashed Acolytes and Jezzails. Both are using Stormvermin bodies and the Acolytes are holding Irondrakes since I wanted them to essentially lob the Poison Globes via a grenade launcher instead of just throwing them. Honestly required very little work since Stormvermin are already in a great 2-handed weapon pose.

The Jezzails are Adeptus Mechanicus guns and some green stuff to get the joints right.. but not too bad to do. The pavises are just a bunch of spare Clanrat shields filed down and glued together to make a big one and I took other random bits\shields to stick in front of them. Once I finish their bases I plan to have some rocks stacked up against them or something to better hide the bottom part.

Wow. Very nice job, then!

[Skreech Verminking]

52 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Hmmm. How about 2 Rat Ogors + 1 Master Moulder or Packmaster?

BTW. I've been wondering about this Packmaster from Spire Of Dawn: http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics16/img532dee2d482f6.jpg. Could he be used these days? He has a cattleprod instead of a whip, so I'm not sure he'd be legal?

Well most people here tend to use the packmaster with the cattleprod as a master moulder with the things catcher.

[Gwendar]

@PiotrW I tend to look at things from a biased competitive view and in that regard 2 Rat Ogres + a MM just isn't worth it. Of course if you're playing more casual then by all means I say go for it, they definitely seem fun to use. And like Skreech said, you can easily just use the SoD mini as a MM with the thing's catcher; no one should have an issue with that.

[PiotrW]

4 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@PiotrW I tend to look at things from a biased competitive view and in that regard 2 Rat Ogres + a MM just isn't worth it. Of course if you're playing more casual then by all means I say go for it, they definitely seem fun to use. And like Skreech said, you can easily just use the SoD mini as a MM with the thing's catcher; no one should have an issue with that.

... aside from me, guys. The problem is, not matter how hard I squint, I just can stop seeing that this MM is holding a cattle prod, not a things-catcher. Gah!

The cattle prod mini is very cool and I'd love to use it, though... I wish there was an option for a MM with a cattle prod! Another irritating mini I discovered today is the Death-runner from Silver Tower - he looks awesome! But there are no rules for such a hero in AoS... and I'd need five of these guys to make them represent Gutter Runners...

As for Rat Ogors - oh, it's not like I'm absolutely enamoured with them or something... But these two SoD minis *are* cool (even though I have no idea why one of these guys has an energy generator implanted - what does it power, exactly?). But I can't decide whether it makes sense to use - Storm Fiends seem to be much more interesting option when it comes to oversized rats...  And these SoD are costly - not points-wise, but money-wise. One of these costs about $20 on eBay...

So - thinking, thinking...

[Gwendar]

@PiotrW Yeah, some odd things happened with our tome in terms of minis, but the SoD stuff was all mixed so I understand on that front.. which is also why the Mortar was squatted entirely. Everything from Silver Tower has had the same thing happen and I just bought a bunch of Deathrunners to use as Gutter Runners since I assumed it would be going away at some point anyway... but I supplemented them by using the same 2 models from the Blood Bowl Team (the less armored ones) as well so I have around 40 Gutter Runner proxies because of this.

The price on those things is only going to go up as none of it will ever get a separate sprue release. Fiends also work quite well in units of 6-9 as you have likely noticed if you want them to be more competitive. Although the punchier option for them isn't horrible either.

[PiotrW]

Hmmm. So, 40 Gutter Runners. I guess that 5 of them would be useless?

And you say one needs 6 Stormfiends? I have bought (well... ordered, so far) just one box. I thought that would be enough?

[Gwendar]

@PiotrW No, not useless. 5 is still a decent harraser and something an opponent would have to deal with before it takes empty or very lightly contest objectives. I just made 40 of them because I was running pure Eshin before our tome dropped. 15-20 for a killy unit, 5-10 for a harrasment\distraction\objective taker.

I would go back the last few pages and read up on what people, including myself, have been doing with Stormfiends. You need a larger unit of 6-9 in the full shooting loadout (1\3 being Windlaunchers, 1\3 being Ratling Cannons and 1\3 being Shock Gauntlets or Doomflayers, your preference) and you then buff this unit with MMMWP + Warpspark + Vigordust (though not necessary) and it will delete 1-2 units per turn typically. 1 unit of 3 Fiends just isn't going to do that.

Again.. I just speak from a competitive standpoint and what is currently working well. If that isn't your goal then you can of course go with whatever you like 😉

[Obeisance]

The AoS team tournament was awesome. 8 teams of 5. My team was woefully unprepared.

It was really fun, people kept stopping to take photos of my army on the table. Battlelines of rats, screening for a Grey Seer on Screaming Bell flanked by two Verminlords. It looked like an actual fantasy army from before the end of the Old World.

I ended up getting two wins, losing on a single dice roll and getting a bye. So 3-1 which isn't bad for my first tournament. I kept hearing that people playing me got thrown under the bus in the pairing process. lol.

My Skaven vs two Loonclan and Ironjaws.

Round 1 vs Tomb Kings. Focal Point in Hysh - Major win.

Round 2 vs Gloomspite Gits. Battle for the Pass in Chamon - Minor win.

Round 3 vs. Ironjaws. Total Conquest in Shyish - Minor loss.

Round 4 vs bye. Scorched Earth in Aqushy - I got the bye as one of the guys in the opponent's team had to drive home.

...

Seer on Bell, Warpseer, Corruptor. 2x 40 Clanrats. 1x 20 Clanrats. Warpfire Thrower, Ratling Gun, 40 Plague Monks. Vortex, Geminids, Vermintide, Spell Portals.

The spell portals were so good. I consistantly was able to shut down enemy big things with Dreaded Warpgale anywhere on the board or toss Dreaded Plague at units in deploy zone. Also was sweet using it to place Vermintide anywhere.

Also, Vermintide is a phenomal spell. It is so good.

One weakness I found in my list.. I just had turns where I couldn't get spells off.

Mirrors 5, Vermintide 6, Geminids 7, Plague 8, Warpgale 8, Frenzy 8, Vortex 8. I need cheaper Endless Spells. I think I'm going to fit in the Pendulum and Swords. Maybe try to get in Palasade against shooting.

[Gwendar]

@Obeisance Glad you did well, looks like it was fun... haven't had a team event around here in a long time and I really want to get one organized.

Look at my most recent batrep and you'll see how painful not getting key spells to go off is, and that was in a 100% magic based list. Of course... the next turn the complete opposite happened and, well, things died. Lots of things died. Anyway, I definitely say through in the Pendulum, Swords can be great too but be wary about them coming back on you since you're Chaos. Also, remember that you can't cast Endless Spells through the portal; they can end their movement through the other side but not be cast, measured through and moved from the other side of a portal... not sure if that's what you did but just wanted to bring it up in case you did 😉

[Obeisance]

You can't cast an Endless Spell though, but you can move them in.

You won't trigger damage on the other side, but it's good for position denial. I was blocking out with Vermintide that way.

And that's the exact reason I'm iffy about Swords. Pendulum however, keeps going straight. It's fine.

...

My only minor loss was due to a single roll. I was going to win on points.. and he cast Hand of Gork on an 8, bouncing the caster to an objective in my backfield I wasn't contesting (like an idiot).

Warpseer (MoM) needed to roll an 8 to win the game. He didn't.

I also assumed my Clanrats would die faster and kept the Monks bottlenecked in. They should have just ran around. Second picture, top left.

[Obeisance]

With a little more experience, I think this is what I'll run.

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
- General: Master of Magic

40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
- Icon, Banner, Gong, Chimes
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Vermintide (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Wounds: 183

...

Drop the Vortex, take Pendulum and Shackles. Upgrade the Ratling Gun to a Warpfire Thrower. Change to Ulgu now that I can. I took Chamon in the team thing because Ulgu was taken. Runeblade was ok, but it doesn't explode like the Sword.

Kind of wish I had more shooting, though.

[Skreech Verminking]

So Ill be taking part on a tournament the week after the next  one.

Will be interesting to see how I’ll be fairing against my counter-skaven players with their jezzail  shooting  against my 130Modell count verminus list.

Guts tells me that those heavy shooting list will have more than just trouble getting rid of my pesting objective grabbers, at list for the first 3rounds.

But the truths might reveal itself soon.

Yes-yes,

  soon-soon the champion of the great horned rat will rise-Rise!!

Anyways heres my list:

Allegiance: Skaventide - Mortal Realm: Chamon
LEADERS
Skaa bloodtail, right claw of clan Mors (100)
Clawlord
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Verminous Valour
Grey seer sniketrikk (220)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell - Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Skreek the destroyer (280)
Verminlord Warbringer
- General
- Command Trait : Brutal Fury - Artefact : Rune Blade
Skallog the mad (100)
Warlock Bombardier
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
The black furred gnawers of the deep warrens (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
****** backstabbering backstabbers (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
The red guard (450)
40 x Stormvermin - Halberd & Shield
The man-thing flayers (260)
3 x Stormfiends
The Squig-burner (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower
The dwarf-thing menace (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
 Bell of Doom (40)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 179
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

 

[frostfire]

I am currently on my 120 rats(80 clan rats and 40 monks) painting schedule.

Is there any speedpainting color scheme you guys recommand?

[Obeisance]

I can give you an easy Contrast method, which is what I did.

Prep model, sand and seal base then spray with Wraithbone.

Paint all wood with Wyldwood.

Paint cloth with Blood Angel Red (I then used Flesh Tearers to make the orange red crimson)

Paint metal with Leadbelcher.

At this point, go back and cleanup the skin sections with Wraithbone, because you'll see other colours under the next one.

Paint skin with Darkoath.

Dot the eyes with Khorne Red.

Cleanup teeth then apply Skeleton Bone.

Highlight fingers and muzzle with (light skin tone I can't remember).

Extreme highlight cloth with Mephiston red. 

Highlight any bone with White.

Paint the cheeks, arms, legs, exposed bodies and backs of the hands with Wyldwood. With Darkoath underneath it looks like fur.

Wash the base and metals with Devlan mud.

Drybrush the base with Terminatus Stone and trim it with Steel Legion Drab.

...

There's an extra step for Verminlord horns, but that's what I did. I can't believe I laid in bed and typed that off the top of my head. Also a quick highlight of Mournfang over the fur. Doing contrasts over a large surface area is hard to get even.

 

[Obeisance]

[frostfire]

Amazing color pallet! I think I might just go on using your pallet. Thanks!😉

[Obeisance]

Now that I'm home, I'll paste my actual method from my notepad document.

Basically I skipped any "optional" bits on Clanrats but did them for big stuff. I started off using a different metal wash tone and just went with Agrax to skip a step. You can cut it down to about 14-15 steps per model.

...

Skaven Contrast Scheme

Spray with WRAITHBONE

Paint steel with LEADBELCHER
Paint cloth with BLOOD ANGEL RED
Paint cloth with FLESH TEARERS RED
Paint wood with WYLDWOOD
Paint flesh with DARKOATH FLESH
Paint fur detail with WYLDWOOD
Paint eyes with KHORNE RED
Paint teeth, horns and claws with WRAITHBONE
Paint teeth, horns and claws with SKELETON BONE
(optional) Extreme highlight teeth, horns and claws with WHITE SCAR
(optional) Extreme highlight fingers/snout with KISLEV FLESH

Paint rocks with TALLARN SAND
Wash base and steel with AGRAX EARTHSHADE and (optional) LAHMIAN MEDIUM 1:1
Extreme highlight steel with STORMHOST SILVER
(optional) Drybrush rocks with USHABTI BONE
Extreme highlight rocks with WHITE SCAR
Drybrush sand with TERMINATUS STONE

Clean up base trim with STEEL LEGION DRAB

...

Small rats:
Paint whole rat with DARKOATH FLESH
Paint fur sections with WYLDWOOD
(optional) Higlight brown with MOURNFANG
(Optional) Highlight flesh with KISLEV FLESH

Bronze:
Paint brass with BALTHAZAR GOLD
Wash brass with AGRAX EARTHSHADE

Warpstone:
Paint with LAMENTER'S YELLOW
Paint with WARPLIGHTNING GREEN
Highlight with MOOT GREEN
(Optional) Extreme highlight with 1:1 MOOT GREEN and WHITE SCAR

Plague Monks
As above, substite both red cloth tones with MILITARUM GREEN
Paint boils with AVERLAND SUNSET
Wash boils with AGRAX EARTHSHADE
Rehighlight with AVERALND SUNSET (or yellow of your choice)

[States]

2 hours ago, Obeisance said:

=...

Skaven Contrast Scheme

Paint cloth with BLOOD ANGEL RED
Paint cloth with FLESH TEARERS RED
=

How do the two reds differ in look? Where do you apply each?

[PiotrW]

Guys, I'll tell you something: I secret the musk of fear on the mere thought of having to paint 80+ minis...

[Gwendar]

18 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Guys, I'll tell you something: I secret the musk of fear on the mere thought of having to paint 80+ minis...

Part of the reason I chose my greyscale them; easy to do and looks decent (for my tastes) and still hits way over the 3-color minimum of tournaments.

May the GHR have mercy on you... although, I think @Skreech Verminking probably has us all beat so I try to never complain.

[SaucyRatBear]

Hail ratlings, I leap jumped straight into AOS by buying a full Skaven army and starting in an escalation league. I have mostly Skryre units but was wondering if it would be better at the 500 pts level to take lots of bodies or try to sneak in something with more punch. I noticed with FAQ and Errata that 2x20 clan rats, any 100 pt leader, and a doomwheel comes in at 500 pts but is that even good for this point level?