AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:23 PM, Kirjava13 said:

Squeak. So corona, lockdown and everything else actually deterred me from any hobby this year and apparently the last time I checked this thread, @Gwendarwas confidently looking forward to NOVA back in March. So almost a year on, where do we stand, furry compadres? How fares that mighty race of noble rats in the current WarHam landscape?

I've pretty much taken a break from AoS after various tournaments 1-2 times a month via TTS. Been on the Tzeentch train for the majority of the last couple of months but.. the disparity between some factions vs other is nonsensical and no real FAQ changes has cemented me staying away for the time being.

For me, Skaven can really struggle with the current meta denying their necessary magic and outranging their guns and often doing more damage at the same time. It isn't something I've found to be particularly fun as of late and I've mostly been playing Star Wars Legion and absolutely loving it 😅

I think major (not 10 point adjustments) points changes and warscroll rewrites and/or a new edition is desperately needed for all factions right now, to be blunt. I haven't decided if I want to bother with Nova or Nashcon this year even if they do happen.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Gwendar
What's spell check?

[Lord Krungharr]

I haven't had time to play of late, but perhaps next week I can practice vs my new Stormcast army and get the hang of them both.  Gotta agree that many of the units seem a bit overcosted (especially the Verminlords).  Also Skaven have nothing in the way of activation wars participation, that's a problem.   Also, once we get some more storyline for all the factions and what I can root for them to be doing in a game then it will be more fun!   I know there are plans to be ruined (my Beasts of Chaos are looking to party as well).   

[DocKeule]

I have played my first game on the TTS yesterday. The handling is a little wobbly at first but I am getting there. We were playing 1000 points battle for the pass as ist was my first TTS game and my opponents first AoS game (a long time 40k player though). 

I was running

Screaming Bell (General)
Clawlord
Warlock Engineer

3 x 20 Clanrats (full command) with spears as battleline
Warplightning Cannon

My opponent was running:
Bloodthirster
Skullmaster

2 x 10 Bloodletters
20 Bloodletters
2 x 5 Fleshhounds

1. Round
He had fewer drops and was giving me first turn. I got one unit of Clanrats though the gnawhole behind his lines and got the charge on a unit of Bloodletters killing four and having three rats killed. My cannon was out of reach so I got no shooting. I one of my other units of Clanrats to one of the objectives in the middle and left the bell and the third unit of Clanrats to grab the objective in my zone. The cannon and the engineer moved uo a little bit but stayed close to each other and the gnawhole because I was still considering sending the cannon though. I scored three point: 3:0

My opponent moved most of his stuff up and sent a block of Fleshhounds back to help out his Bloodlettes. His heroes got the charge on my clanrats that were on the middle objective, killed some but he did not capture it yet. He scored one point. 3:1.

2. Round
He won the role of and that was probably already the decision on that match. 

He charged his big unit of Bloodletters in my rats on the objective and they and his heroes took most of them out. (Luckyly I did not have to take battleshocks because I was still within 13" of the bell). His sencond Fleshhound unit took the other middle-objective but my rats still held theirs. He was scoring 3 points: 3;4

In my second turn I moved up my bell and last unit of clanrats as well as the cannon and engineer. I got some spells off doing a little damage to his Bloodthirster. When it was time to shoot I rolled the strength of the cannon...which was six 🙄..and oovercharged it. I did not roll a single six but enough ones to kill the cannon instantly. 

At least the bell and the last clanrats got the charge and did a bit of damage to his Bloodthirster. Also I killed enough Blootletters in his deploiment zine to take over his objective. I scored seven points: 10:4

3. Round

He won the roll off and sandwiched my clanrats in his territory (still not doing enough damage to take the objective back). In the midde he took the secons objective and he halfed my wounds on the bell in addition to killing most clanrats. He scored 5 points: 10:9

I did not have too much left. I would ha wanted to pull the Screming Bell out of combat but the Bloodthirster hat some way to prevent that. I ran my clanrats in his baclyard out of combat though still holding the objective and I charges my Clawlord into his Bloodthirster and my engineer (with nothing left to do) into his bloodletters. I did some damage to the Bloodthirster and scored 5 points for 15:9

4. Round

Double turn for me but too little to late. 

I killed the Bloodthirster with magic and shooting so I was able to pull back the bell. (Still kind of hoping for a 12 to summon a Verminlord in round 5). My Clawlord killed the Skullmaster but I lost the engineer to the Bloodletters. I scorrred 5 points for 20:9.

In his turn he killed my Clanrats in his back and my Clawlord so all I had left was the bell in my deploiment zone on my objective. Je scored 5 points for 20:13.

5. Round

My only hope was to winn the roll of and summon a Verminlord. I had 3 wounds left and could not move and he had 5 Fleshhounds and a dozen Blodletters ready to charge. I lost the roll off and conceded and that point. He would have scored nine points for 20:22 and tabled me.


It was a fung game and it was good to play again after moth witchout a single game due to corona. I will definitely have more games on TTS.  

[DocKeule]

I am going to play Lumineth Realmlords with Teclis on Friday via TTS.

What do you think would give me a chance to make the game at least competitive?

Since I won't be limited to the models I really own I am thinking about a full Skyre list and hope to shoot Teclis out of the game turn one or two. My idea is to have two units of six stormfiends going underground with additional warp grinders (so not losing a rattling cannon) and have them pop up and hope to kill Teclis in one swoop. (Maybe also adding an engineer to buff them). I was also considering the battalion but I don't seem to finde a good built under 2000 points.

The other idea is to go all Pestilenz since Teclis is going to deny me most magic any way. Problem here: Their archers have about the same reach as the catapults. Could be interesting if the mat allow for a foulrain congregation to hide. Most melee units would probably hardly make it into close combat still.

[Skreech Verminking]

33 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I am going to play Lumineth Realmlords with Teclis on Friday via TTS.

What do you think would give me a chance to make the game at least competitive?

Since I won't be limited to the models I really own I am thinking about a full Skyre list and hope to shoot Teclis out of the game turn one or two. My idea is to have two units of six stormfiends going underground with additional warp grinders (so not losing a rattling cannon) and have them pop up and hope to kill Teclis in one swoop. (Maybe also adding an engineer to buff them). I was also considering the battalion but I don't seem to finde a good built under 2000 points.

The other idea is to go all Pestilenz since Teclis is going to deny me most magic any way. Problem here: Their archers have about the same reach as the catapults. Could be interesting if the mat allow for a foulrain congregation to hide. Most melee units would probably hardly make it into close combat still.

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour  
- Artefact: The Gnawshard  
Warlock Engineer (110)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

Artillery
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 176

Team both warpgrinder teams up with one warpfire thrower weapon team each.

have one of your gnawholes near his units.

Be certain that at least 2warpfirethrower make it to his line.

now he has to basically choose to either shoot of your lightning cannons with his bows, or take off the warpfire throwers, who will decimate them next turn.

if he chooses the weapon teams, shoot with both warplightning cannons, on teclis, or if your feeling lucky and are in range, at the bow dudes.

just let him have a hard time deciding 

 

[DocKeule]

Problem with the warpfire throwers is: You have to stay 9" away from any enemy model and you cannot move after turned up from the ground. Yet they only have 8" reach so you won't be able to fire the turn you come up. With a double turn that might work out but if the opponent gets the next turn you are done. Warplighting Cannons won't be able to shoot a Teclis unless he moves up really aggressively.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Problem with the warpfire throwers is: You have to stay 9" away from any enemy model and you cannot move after turned up from the ground. Yet they only have 8" reach so you won't be able to fire the turn you come up. With a double turn that might work out but if the opponent gets the next turn you are done. Warplighting Cannons won't be able to shoot a Teclis unless he moves up really aggressively.

Which is why I’m making the choice so hard

It is very unlikely, that he will want to shoot at a 3wounds model, but when that model can literally destroy whole units in a single turn he will want to shoot at them.

think of them as an distraction, you want them up there just to impose.

and even if he chooses to ignore them, that would mean that  you basically won the objective game mate.

sure you

may not be in range turn 1, but that isn’t what we truly want.

is it??🙃.

Ps: the cannons aren’t actually meant for teclis.

ignore that guy as much as possible, he isn’t worth it.

focus your cannons on his infantry like for example his spear and horse guys.

Killing bowthings is fine too, but you truly want to get rid of his melee threads.

the archers will very likely be occupied with your warpfire thrower weapon teams.

the true strength of this army is to trick you friend of thinking that all of this is a absurdly bad choice.

knwoung that, you can be certain your clanrats will be save, for at least 2-3turns.

and that’s all you need to take-steel the objectival victory 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Ps: the cannons aren’t actually meant for teclis.

ignore that guy as much as possible, he isn’t worth it.

Not sure. His spell can cost you a lot of your output with the 5+ ignoring wounds bubble. 

I get your point though that too many players maybe concentrate too much on him.

[Skreech Verminking]

40 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Not sure. His spell can cost you a lot of your output with the 5+ ignoring wounds bubble. 

I get your point though that too many players maybe concentrate too much on him.

That to,

but try to outmind your enemy.

it is one of the skaven most-best weapons 

yes-yes

fool-slay enemy.

schemes must be scheme-plotted

plots must be plott-schemed,

Victory must be take-stolen!

 

Yes-yes

fear-fear mighty Skreech Verminking!!

Edited February 3, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Deadkitten]

5 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I am going to play Lumineth Realmlords with Teclis on Friday via TTS.

What do you think would give me a chance to make the game at least competitive?

Since I won't be limited to the models I really own I am thinking about a full Skyre list and hope to shoot Teclis out of the game turn one or two. My idea is to have two units of six stormfiends going underground with additional warp grinders (so not losing a rattling cannon) and have them pop up and hope to kill Teclis in one swoop. (Maybe also adding an engineer to buff them). I was also considering the battalion but I don't seem to finde a good built under 2000 points.

The other idea is to go all Pestilenz since Teclis is going to deny me most magic any way. Problem here: Their archers have about the same reach as the catapults. Could be interesting if the mat allow for a foulrain congregation to hide. Most melee units would probably hardly make it into close combat still.

Full disclosure: I played my first remote game w Skaven yesterday.......   (It didn't go well.)

If you could pull off the Teclis/Stormfiend trade I think that's the way to go.  Unfortunately, as Gwendar said, we're not in a good place, ATM.  Instead of asking the question "Can you deal with this (non-sense)?" we need to instead present an answer.  I think the Stormfiends are an Answer (to Teclis), whereas the Plaguemonks are more of a Question.  While questions are generally better than answers, unfortunately, I think that Lumineth's answer is pretty much, "Yes, we got this," when presented with a chunk of melee units.   BUT, you're facing a known opponent, so go with the hard counter (assuming you can pull off the trade).   

Just my $.02.  But let us know how it goes.

[Deadkitten]

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

ignore that guy as much as possible, he isn’t worth it.

Yeah, don't play the game Oppo wants you to play.  Although I do still like a hard answer!  What I'm not sure of is whether the Teclis/Stormfiend trade is worth it.  It sure is Feel Bad, though.  

Skreech's Warpfire/Catapult scenario is exactly what I mean by present a Question (and is probably a better one than just a bunch of plaguemonks sprinting forward.)

Edited February 3, 2021 by Deadkitten

[DocKeule]

I hear you...

Now what about this? I took @Skreech Verminkings idea and tried to take it one step further. Again: This is a TTS game so I don't need to really own the models.

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Masterful Scavenger
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

6 x Stormfiends (520)

1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 111

Plan:
Command trait and artefact are designed to generate as many warpstone tokens as possible to buff the missile units without having to rely on magic.

Have the acolytes run arround, grab objectives and shield the warpfire teams. Have the unit of stormfiends go underground with a grinder-team to hopefully go character sniping. Also two warpfire throwers will tunnel as will one of the warlock engineers to support either the fiends or warpfire teams (whatever seems more advantageous). The other four warfire teams are there to pose e threat against his units (hopefully avoiding melee for a while) and give him something to think about.

[DocKeule]

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Plague Priest (80)
- General
- Command Trait: Architect of Death
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Warpstone Armour
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

ARTILLERY
Plagueclaw (150)
Plagueclaw (150)
Plagueclaw (150)

BATTALIONS
Foulrain Congregation (110)

TOTAL: 1970/2000 WOUNDS: 123

Second approach: Same basic idea but with some twists. The Foulrain Congregation will hide somewhere in the back behind some terrain. On units with 10 or more models this would give us three shots 2+ (re-rolling ones) 2+ rend 2 and 2W6 damage. Clanrats take objectives, shield the weaponteams and and the catapults and warpfire-teams threaten the elves. Two of them and an engineer go underground.

Edited February 4, 2021 by DocKeule

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, DocKeule said:

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Plague Priest (80)
- General
- Command Trait: Architect of Death
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Warpstone Armour
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

ARTILLERY
Plagueclaw (150)
Plagueclaw (150)
Plagueclaw (150)

BATTALIONS
Foulrain Congregation (110)

TOTAL: 1970/2000 WOUNDS: 123

Second approach: Same basic idea but with some twists. The Foulrain Congregation will hide somewhere in the back behind some terrain. On units with 10 or more models this would give us three shots 2+ (re-rolling ones) 2+ rend 2 and 2W6 damage. Clanrats take objectives, shield the weaponteams and and the catapults and warpfire-teams threaten the elves. Two of them and an engineer go underground.

Both list are great.

I’m just not certain the foul rain congregation will be the thing that will truly deal damage.

the range is great but it isn’t quit save from incoming missiles, especially not against the elves, who ignore anything that blocks line of sight.

and with their formation, they’ll be -1 to hit, which ends up in you only hitting them on 3s.

I personally prefer the Warplightning cannon, that can basically just ignore that stupid to hit role, and do a bunch of mortal wounds.

But that is just me, I do love my

 randomly damage generating war-machines.

love the idea behind the first list though.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

Wouldn't 6 Jezzails with some Warpstone Spark on them be a good Teclis-cleaner?  He's not going to get Look Out Sir or Cover because he's a behemoth.  Or at least I thought he was?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Wouldn't 6 Jezzails with some Warpstone Spark on them be a good Teclis-cleaner?  He's not going to get Look Out Sir or Cover because he's a behemoth.  Or at least I thought he was?

Teclis is frightfully though to take down.

Able to cast a spell that gives every lumineth unit wholly within 18 a 5++save, makes him extremely tough.

Jezzails certainly can take him off the battlefield, after 2-3rounds of shooting, but there are still the archer to be feared for.

But yeah, basically you want as many cheap threads.

and Teclis, is more of a automatic buffer then anything else.

which is why I wouldn’t worry too much about him.

if your able to get rid of the archers or the spearmen, or hordes of meatshields should be able to take-steal the objectives with ease.

[DocKeule]

6 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Wouldn't 6 Jezzails with some Warpstone Spark on them be a good Teclis-cleaner?  He's not going to get Look Out Sir or Cover because he's a behemoth.  Or at least I thought he was?

Six Jezzails have to little output. Teclis hast 16 wounds and will ignore on average a third of the damage you do to him. 

Six Jezzails will on average have 1,5 wounding hits. Lets say 2. Even if both go through and they got buffed with a warpstone spark that its 6 damage. Even without his ignoring on 5+ it would take half the game to take him out.

Even with six stormfiends and a warlock bombardier it is a gamble very much depending how I role for the rattling cannons. Again assuming average results and using a warpstone token:
- two fiends with rattling cannons would to 18 shots, 9 would hit and 6 would wound. At rend -1 Teclis should save 2, with the warpstone we have 8 damage
- two fiends with windlaunchers to 6 attacks, 3 hit and 1,5 wound (say again 2), with rend -3 he can't save so it ist 2 W3 + 2 damage, again 8.
- the bombardier will use his rocket and (of course) overcharge it. Chances of a wounding hit are 1:3  and Teclis has a 1:3 chance to get the save. On average we could inflict 7wounds then.

With 23 wounds caused he ignores a third we are at 15,3 damage that he takes. So we would have to roll above average or hope for a 9" charge (when we used our tunneling) to get rid of him in one turn. If we don't and not have a double-turn we can be pretty certain what all his archers are going to aim at in his next shooting phase.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

45 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

With 23 wounds caused he ignores a third we are at 15,3 damage that he takes. So we would have to roll above average or hope for a 9" charge (when we used our tunneling) to get rid of him in one turn. If we don't and not have a double-turn we can be pretty certain what all his archers are going to aim at in his next shooting phase.

And that’s the reason, why I would ignore teclis, he has no worth, 

even khorne thinks he’s weak.

just ignore him, and kill-shoot the archer, the true champions of aos of the table.

and recrown your stormfiends or the warpgrinder as the next big king of the Hill

[Deadkitten]

How do people mitigate getting doubled?   While Skaven Battalions aren't the greatest, the Plague Furnace one and the Verminis one do exist to go for low drops.  On paper, it seems that Death Frenzy and Warp Gale should help.  Maybe a Warp-Grinder in Reserve to punish for over-extending? 

[DocKeule]

Draft for an emblem...

 

[DocKeule]

I wasn't happy with the first draft but this isn't looking too bad.

It is just a little joke for my tournament lists any way.

[Garrac]

Hey, long time-hearthbeats skaven fan here! I really like AoS, but I wonder: GW doesn't have any plans-schemes for our furry friends? I would like a lot to buy new miniatures from them :(

[gronnelg]

On 2/13/2021 at 11:49 AM, Garrac said:

Hey, long time-hearthbeats skaven fan here! I really like AoS, but I wonder: GW doesn't have any plans-schemes for our furry friends? I would like a lot to buy new miniatures from them 

To my knowledge there are no known plans unfortunately. Skaven are pretty awesome as it is though. Although anything new or updated would certainly be welcome.

[DocKeule]

If they stick to the three-year-rhythm we will get a new battletome next year.

But from what I have read GW is already behind the schedule due to corona so it might take a little longer.

[Le Chef]

4 hours ago, gronnelg said:

To my knowledge there are no known plans unfortunately. Skaven are pretty awesome as it is though. Although anything new or updated would certainly be welcome.

Anything new would definitely be awesome but I really also do like the army as it is now. Although struggling a bit with the current meta, it's a very versatile army that gives you plenty of cool options for different types of opponents