AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Specks006  You absolutely need the stormvermin to have Death Frenzy effects on them to get full value. If you run any grey seers, i recommend either death frenzy or skitterleap (which by the way you can give to your screaming bell). There's the potential of a double-pile-in on death with the normal and Dreaded version of the spell.

Here's the hardest part about a block of 40, the wholly within part with the Warbringer and the Clawlord.

I suggest two options: first plan on charging with both the stormvermin and at least the VL or Clawlord, running them adjacent to each other as you push, not behind one another; Second, let your opponent charge you. If you run everything forward without charging, both the clawlord and Verminlord can be directly behind your stormvermin ensuring that both are available to buff the rats (of course assuming you have death frenzy active).

Some extra tech is Dreaded Skitterleaping one of your buffing heroes to where you think you can make a charge to. This of course requires a different Verminlord but I've found so much more consistency with my buffing heroes even if I teleport them a short distance. 

Also, its even harder to get stormvermin with both +1 attack AND re-rolling all 1's. My suggestion to you is lining up a Warbringer's command ability should always be your priority. At full strength, +3/+2/-1/1dmg, you potentially force every single dice to wound. The Clawlord's ability becomes about making a statement and showing your opponent the beef, but not necessary. 

[Darkhan]

How does people here measure up the warp lightning vortex? 

Do you exactly 7" from the middle of each base? 

Or 7" tip to tip of each base?

[Gwendar]

44 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

How does people here measure up the warp lightning vortex? 

Do you exactly 7" from the middle of each base? 

Or 7" tip to tip of each base?

"exactly 7" means either from my point of view and I've always done it base to base..never center of base to center of base. I've never really seen any debate on this so I'm unsure what others think.

[Saodexan]

1 hour ago, Darkhan said:

How does people here measure up the warp lightning vortex? 

Do you exactly 7" from the middle of each base? 

Or 7" tip to tip of each base?

The only time i measure middle of each base is when they precisely ask to do it. Otherwise i just do base to base. You can also ask your opponent if he is OK with your measure, i think middle or tip to tip can both work fine.

[Coyote]

7 inches to the base - by the way if you point the lightning from the three models at the other models, the form a perfect 7” triangle.

[Congratz]

On 5/29/2019 at 7:08 AM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I tried out an alpha strike verminous: Mixed Skaven vs. Mixed Order (mostly shooty stormcast); Chamon (no rend for the battle). Just played a game with this list except it was derpy due to "no rend allowed" for the battle.  

Step 1: Huddle army around a Gnawhole. +1 to cast for all your wizards this way.  Cast Cogs. 

Step 2: Death frenzy x2 the stormvermin ("Death Frenzy" + "Dreaded Death Frenzy")

Step 3: Skitterleap Assassin to nearby terrain feature. Drop a Gnawbomb. Send Storm-vermies through the Gnawhole. 

Step 4: Skitterleap Warbringer close to enemy (within 6'')

Step 5: At end of movement, tunnel up a Clawlord near where the storm-vermies will hopefully charge

Step 6: Charge in with the storm-vermies and pop the Clawlord and Warbringer's Command Abilities. 

Step 7: Enjoy the 7 attacks per model at 3+/2+/-1/ 1dmag, re-rolling all 1's (they pile-in and attack twice upon death)

  Reveal hidden contents

LEADERS
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Verminlord Warbringer (260)
- General
- Command Trait : Devious Adversary
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Verminous Valour
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : Gnawbomb
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
UNITS
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd & Shield
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
TOTAL: 1900/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2

No battle report needed as both sides couldn't kill each other at all but the above steps worked exactly as planned. That said, being in the opponent's face turn one changes the nature of the game considerably. Fun times. 

Just saw this post! I really like this idea! Just have to ask, do you think its a competitive list? 500 points for stormvermin sure is much!

[MrZakalwe]

1 hour ago, Congratz said:

Just saw this post! I really like this idea! Just have to ask, do you think its a competitive list? 500 points for stormvermin sure is much!

It's good (great) into lists that rely on elite melee threats but shooting heavy lists will just remove them from the table after they kill the chaff.

It's too matchup dependent to be competitive but it's fun as hell. 

[Congratz]

2 hours ago, MrZakalwe said:

It's good (great) into lists that rely on elite melee threats but shooting heavy lists will just remove them from the table after they kill the chaff.

It's too matchup dependent to be competitive but it's fun as hell. 

Ahhh i see. Just looking for a competitive list for skaventide. Just haven't found anything yet

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Congratz said:

Ahhh i see. Just looking for a competitive list for skaventide. Just haven't found anything yet

Exchange the unit of 40Stormvermins for 80plague monks and boom you have 2 units that will deal 8times the damage Stormvermins would be able to do

Edit: the warbringer could still be useful although you would be better of taking a corruptor instead

the clawlord still has a purpose and with the gryphfeather charm, and with the verminous valour trait he will be near unkillable.

let him stand in the front lines and protect your meathsield units from enemy charges, which will be unable to hit your warlord thanks to the -2to Hit modifiers (which can get even better with a good role on your bell).

In desperate times he will be your assassin and elite unit Killer, as well as the guy who will buff your troops with a nifty little bravery buff.

although loosing the Stormvermins, will make him and his command ability less desirable, he can still buff your clanrats up, in desperate times, making it much easier for them to kill of other battleline units.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Congratz I'm honored that you think its a competitive list. That said I have no idea, I've never played in a tourny. My inspiration was justifying the 80 stormvermin I have. I will always be a Verminous player and wanted a list where they can shine. 

Side Note: Plague Monks are chumps. I'm callin you out Clan Pestilens. 

[Duke]

Hey, i play a tournament with the new artefacts from Forbidden Power. I dont know much about the artefacts and the Lists that the other player used.

We Play 1000 Points and i think about this:

Grey Seer  (120)

Warlock Bombadier (100)

2x20 Clanrats (240)

6 jezzails (280)

40 Plague Monks (240)

980/1000

Or should i use a Cannon + WLV instead of the 6 Jezzails. It would be nice if anyone helps me to build a 1k mixed skaven list.

 

 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Duke Exciting. I wouldn't worry too much about your choice. I think you could use either shooty unit. I recommend the WLV if you stay with the Bombadier. If your thinking was to use warpstone sparks for the jezzails for more damage, you'll find that 6 of them already do an adequate job killing 5 wound heroes on their own. You could very well take out the bombadier for another Grey Seer at that point. More-more magic I say. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Recently played pure Eshin to give them their chance. The Masters of Murder trait actually worked wonders. Through trickery and good positioning I was able to have my Deceivers kill all four of my friends Stormcast heroes by round 3.  

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide - Mortal Realm: Aqshy
LEADERS
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : The Cube of Mists
Deathmaster (100)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Unrivalled Killer
- Artefact : Thermalrider Cloak
UNITS
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
40 x Night Runners (280)
10 x Night Runners (80)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
10 x Night Runners (80)
10 x Night Runners (80)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
BATTALIONS
Slinktalon (160)

A few things I noticed:

An interesting interaction with the Gnawholes I discovered was that if your opponent kinda stretches their army like taffy to try to contain your teleport abilities, you can dreaded skitterleap onto a gnawhole where a hero is trying to zone you out, kill them, then use the gnawhole to escape next hero phase. You might even have room to drop in a unit at that gnawhole next turn. Its the 6'' rule for the dreaded skitterleap that can catch people off guard when they are zoning the board with 9'' all around. 

I never got to use my slinktalon ability but I still recommend the battalion for how cheap it is. The more artifacts your assassin characters have, the better. Its utility suffers from the fact that all eshin battleline are really easy to kill. The one-time use nature of the battalion encourages multiple engagements in a turn but generally (for any army) you don't want multiple engagements all at once because, well, half of your battalion died before the attack. I actively chose not to use it for fear of not being efficient enough. In hindsight just use the damn thing for a small skirmish because why not. 

Night Runners are NOT Clanrats. Firstly, not being able to retreat and charge was such a drag. Once you commit to an engagement you pretty much assume they are dead meat. 

Eshin wants to be a shooting army. ITS NOT. My whole army has shooting and I managed to do 15 wounds out of ~150 shots over 3 rounds.  Between the exploding hits ability on my battleline, being able to re-roll wounds for shooting against heroes army-wide, the running and shooting ability and the really cool Warpweaper Star artifact, its all a big tease. Without any movement shenanigans built-in, eshin battline's 12'' range is really a death sentence. If they charge after shooting, they hit like feathers, if they stay put after "running and shooting" to extend their threat range they explode into dust when charged. 

Recommendations:

If you want to have the eshin flavor in your army, stick with a core of eshin heroes to really make use of their army trait. The cube of mists is spicy tech. If you put it on a Deathmaster, you actually extend the artifacts target range when you deploy the hidden unit. It comes out to be about 8'' range, from nearest battline unit. The gnawbomb I've used in other games consistently and is great sometimes for a +1 to cast in the middle of the field or moving your centerpiece hero to the other side of the board after your opponent over-committed to take 'em out. Use the slinktalon at almost min size, keeping a max block of gutter runners if you want that extra artifact. Eshin hate monsters.  They very well could not be a hero. Account for this when making lists. And finally, give a Deceiver flying. We skaven players have never flown before. Who needs skitterleap when you can jump battlelines and kill heroes in their sleep (*cough* "thermalrider cloak" *cough*).

Edited June 5, 2019 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Question: For a slinktalon battalion (fun to say), when I deploy the battalion's units, can't I deploy assassins and gutter runners off the table still (as per their warscroll abilities)? Usually such tricks would state "at least half the units must be on the board rule" but no such thing put in print for skaven. 

[Hagbean]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:20 PM, Gwendar said:

As requested. Took about (excluding dry time for the initial Nuln wash) maybe 10 minutes per Ogor? One obviously took around 15-20 due to filling in his back which, luckily, is easy to do with an overloaded brush of super-thin paint as it just flows right in. My brush didn't have the sharpest point so that added to the time as well. Oh, and I purposefully drybrushed a bit hard of the moot green to get a glow\osl effect.

 Anyway, glad you all like the theme! Planning to re-prime or strip all of my Skaven to match the scheme once I finish up another project.

@GwendarFantastic job, did you continue this scheme on the rest of your Skaven? If so would you be willing to post some more pics?

Edited June 6, 2019 by Hagbean

[Kimbo]

Hi all! 

Looking to start a 1k point project and the rats have my attention. 

How do they do now with the new book? Mid-tier, High-tier? 

Have you played the army successfully at 1000p? Please share your list and why it worked so well! 

Cheers! 

[Ikit_Claw]

Skaven are high to mid tier with skrye, I’d  recommend using a lot of jezzials and rattling guns in a 1k point list. Then use an arch warlock and give him the traits overseer of destruction (reroll failed hit rolls for three weapon teams withing 13”) and the Esoteric Warp resonator (+1 warpstone sparks per turn) then use the warpstone sparks to add 1 to the damage characteristics of your rattling guns and jezzials to delete units from the game (but they have a chance of suffering d3 mortal wounds when you roll a dice and the result is a 1). So boom, add some clanrats and that is a potent Skaven army.

[Ikit_Claw]

2 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Hi all! 

Looking to start a 1k point project and the rats have my attention. 

How do they do now with the new book? Mid-tier, High-tier? 

Have you played the army successfully at 1000p? Please share your list and why it worked so well! 

Cheers! 

Just use clan skrye weapon teams

[Gwendar]

5 hours ago, Hagbean said:

@GwendarFantastic job, did you continue this scheme on the rest of your Skaven? If so would you be willing to post some more pics?

Sure, I appreciate your interest in the scheme! 

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Hi all! 

Looking to start a 1k point project and the rats have my attention. 

How do they do now with the new book? Mid-tier, High-tier? 

Have you played the army successfully at 1000p? Please share your list and why it worked so well! 

Cheers! 

I would not agree with loading up on Jezzails and all that for 1k.. that's a heavy investment as you really need to run 6-9 of them minimum, but it can work I suppose. My 1k is typically the following:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 102
 

Give him Vigordust or whatever realm artifact you like.. I'll usually do something defensive like Gryph-Feather or Ignax. Clanrats of Objectives, WLC for hero\elite Sniping and a Doomwheel to do the same.. it really does surprisingly well most of the time, especially with MMMWP on it. And you know, WLV because WLV. Feel free to drop it for another hero or something.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Gwendar

[Seihoff]

Hi @Gwendar, I recently started a Skaven Skryre-esque army and I'm in the Blades vs Spears issue for my battleline clanrats.

You said a few pages ago that you give them full Blades if you could at the moment, did you still think so? I have 3 units, 1x40 and 2x20. I am pretty confident to give that 20-rat units the Blades, but what do you think about the big blob of 40?

Thanks in advance.

[Skreech Verminking]

So I’ll be playing a game of aos (1250p) against a friend of mine today.

Anyways here’s the list:

heros:220p

1Grey seer:120p(skitterleap)

1Warlock bombardier:100p(General; deranged inventor; something injector)

battleline:400p

2x40Clanrats:400p

others:520p

3Stormfiends:260p

1Rattling gun:80p

 1Warplightning cannon:180p

endless spells:100p

Warplightning vortex:100p

total:1240p.

the battle-report will follow shortly tomorrow.

27 minutes ago, Seihoff said:

Hi @Gwendar, I recently started a Skaven Skryre-esque army and I'm in the Blades vs Spears issue for my battleline clanrats.

You said a few pages ago that you give them full Blades if you could at the moment, did you still think so? I have 3 units, 1x40 and 2x20. I am pretty confident to give that 20-rat units the Blades, but what do you think about the big blob of 40?

Thanks in advance.

Hi there @Seihoff I might (edit:)not be mighty and wise Gwendar, but I guess he has the same problem with spear as I have.

well I guess you already know the reason why we don’t use the weapon option on 20rat units of clanrats.

although they are perfectly fine in a unit of 40.

there’s just one problem in it though, and will show itself as soon as you loose 11 or more of them do to battleshock or other stuff.

So in the end you could say that clanrats are a bit better with the knives and swords, since they won’t get so heavily punished for loosing their ranks.

still a unit with spears can be quit good if you buff them up with gnash gnaw on their bones and other abilities.

think of how your foe will tremble in fear, knowing that your clanrats are his worst enemy’s.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Seihoff]

10 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So I’ll be playing a game of aos (1250p) against a friend of mine today.

Anyways here’s the list:

heros:220p

1Grey seer:120p(skitterleap)

1Warlock bombardier:100p(General; deranged inventor; something injector)

battleline:400p

2x40Clanrats:400p

others:520p

3Stormfiends:260p

1Rattling gun:80p

 1Warplightning cannon:180p

endless spells:100p

Warplightning vortex:100p

total:1240p.

the battle-report will follow shortly tomorrow.

Hi there @Seihoff I might be mighty and wise Gwendar, but I guess he has the same problem with spear as I have.

well I guess you already know the reason why we don’t use the weapon option on 20rat units of clanrats.

although they are perfectly fine in a unit of 40.

there’s just one problem in it though, and will show itself as soon as you loose 11 or more of them do to battleshock or other stuff.

So in the end you could say that clanrats are a bit better with the knives and swords, since they won’t get so heavily punished for loosing their ranks.

still a unit with spears can be quit good if you buff them up with gnash gnaw on their bones and other abilities.

think of how your foe will tremble in fear, knowing that your clanrats are his worst enemy’s.

That's what I thought, thank you very much!

[Gwendar]

@Seihoff Pretty much what Screech said; Clanrats don't typically stay around long enough at 40 to make spears worth it. Blades are just more consistent throughout the game.

Also keep in mind that you may not always want to fully charge them in.. A lot of the time if they aren't a screen, they're just tagging a unit or two to just get them pulled into combat and then retreat + charge onto an objective the turn after. 

This video is helpful in understanding what I mean: 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Gwendar

[Lord Krungharr]

On 5/24/2019 at 3:47 AM, AliKing said:

yeah I guess it would, hadn't thought about in my head that way.

I know 2 drops skaven! I have never played an army with less than 12 before. Never got to choose who get first turn, never used a battalion either, its would be all new and exciting for me

Just not sure I want to invest in another 100 monkey rat night runners or spend time finding a way to convert them being the main problem with the list at the moment.

4 drops isn't it?  I thought we can only do 1 Deathmaster in the Slinktalon, and the Deceiver isn't part of that battalion as I recall.  I'm painting up my next 40 Gutter Runners....doing the same army but with max of those since Night Runners just stink.  But Cogs is a great idea for them, really helps them outflanking.