AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Kramer]

49 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Quick game for you-  We’re starting an Ecscalation league this Saturday....

Vote for best/most fun  500 pt army - Rules min 1 Character for General, 1 Battleline

This weekend I’m pretty sure I’m fielding 

1 Grey Seer 

1 Clawleader (General)

1 Unit of x40 Clanrats (Battleline)

1 Unit x5 Gutter Runners

What would you field at 500?

Yeah I’m with 80 rats and a clawlord

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Ahh the backstabbing begins I see...  🔪🐀

making the true skaven society great again.

[AliKing]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

making the true skaven society great again.

Under my supreme leadership

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, AliKing said:

Under my supreme leadership

not knowing it’s all planned by Thanqoul.

[AliKing]

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

not knowing it’s all planned by Thanqoul.

not knowing if I am actually Thanquol or not 😜

Edited February 26, 2019 by AliKing

[Kirjava13]

2 hours ago, Dracan said:

SOooo I am buss building 3 stormfiends, I've already got 3 painted up with ratlings, warpfire and shock gauntlets.

Do i do the same again? I'm not sure...

Only thing i think im sure on is no drill as the ratling is just better...

I am very torn on second warpfire and especially on shock vs flayer...

Any recommendations?

The Ratling gun plus the warpfire thrower makes your unit of Stormfiends great for taking on hordes, and the shock gauntlets only pile it on further. Thinking about the second unit, what do you want them to achieve? So far, we've mostly been trying to squeeze what little specialisation we can still get from the unit, usually in terms of ranged (wind launchers, ratlings) Vs short range and close combat (grinders, warpfire throwers), but thinking about what we want the unit to achieve and trying to tailor it to that is worthwhile. 

With that in mind, it might be worth asking: what are you expecting to face? Is it an idea to build the other variations so you have the option of using all six weapon types depending on enemy? Something more tailored to an elite enemy like Stormcast might be grinders (because ratlings aren't going to do a lot against their armour without buffs), doomflayers (their Rend makes them a better choice than shockers, but beware a low roll on your 2D3 hits) and warpfire throwers (you're going to want to get up close with this unit so the 8" range isn't too much of a problem, and Stormcast hate mortal wounds).

Just some ideas to get you started!

[Overread]

I'd be tempted to build a second unit different from the first so that you've got all 6 options to potentially choose from in their various pairings; then once you've done that I'd start repeating with the next 3 on the 3 options I want the most of. That way you keep your options open early on 

[NemoVonUtopia]

11 hours ago, Nevar said:

So to be sure...

When I am rolling the power for a War Lightning Cannon, I want to roll 1 for the power right?  Because then it is 2+ for mortal wounds?

Its actually 1+ for mortal wounds so 6 or 12 mortal wounds. Ones only fail for hits, wounds, and saves. If you are overcharging you will still have to roll to see how many ones there are but they will still do mortal wounds.

[GeneralZero]

Stormfiends, I love the miniatures. But any advice about magnetize them?

[Kirjava13]

2 hours ago, Navezof said:

After some research and discussion (btw, thanks Kirjava13) I wanted to try a skryre list without a battalion to be able to field more unit. In the end here is the list. I'm not set yet on the artefact or trait for the general.

The idea would be for the leaders and war machine focusing on high value target, and the units on the horde damage. The doomwheel and doom-flayer provide some mobility to take objectives. And in the end, the battleline sole purpose is to not die too fast.

Nothing too fancy or out of the ordinary probably, but I'm wondering several things:

• Will this battleline be enough? The only things keeping those unit from dying is their numbers. Last time they faced stormcast eternal with big hammers and the 40 rats were utterly squashed. (granted I played them very badly, but well, c'est la vie as they say)
• I'm not sure about the doom-flayer, last time I used it his sole action was to crash into a unit of stormcast eternal dealing some damage and blowing up in the process.
• I could replace all the weapon team (ratling gun, warpfire thrower x2, doom-flayer) by a stormfiends, but I'm not sure yet.

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
— General

Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Bombardier (100)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)

War Machine
Warp Lightning Cannon  (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warplock Jezzails (140)

Units
Doom-Flayer (60)
Stormfiends (260)
Ratling Gun (80)
Warpfire thrower (70)
Warpfire thrower (70)

Behemoth
Doomwheel (160)

Total : 2000/2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0

What do you think? Do you have a chance to blow the enemy before I blow myslef up?

I love the Doom-Flayer but I am extremely dubious about its ability to get anything done. I think it has the most dangerous overcharge conditions of any of the weapons teams, and its damage is mediocre. I was dreaming of them being turned into small units of mech-cavalry, but apparently GW prefers them this way...

The two WLCs will do good work for you, assuming the Horned One doesn't curse your dice. I would be wary of only taking three Jezzails- they won't do a vast amount of damage and their ability to take Skryre buffs is limited by the fact that there're only three of them, so using More-more-more Warp Power on them is a no-no as you could very well wipe out your own unit in the process. I would either take none or something stupid like nine, twelve even (assuming you have the models).

The Clanrats are only there to die-die, so don't trouble your whiskers over their soon-to-be-tragically-cut-short lives. They are, however, your best source of bodies to contest objectives, and you have no battleshock mitigation except for Inspiring Presence, so be a little more careful with them than you would be otherwise. Meanwhile, the Stormfiends, WLCs and weapons teams should be able to put a good amount of hurt out. Be sure to position your wizards carefully, as most spells we have access to are 18" range max. 

As much as it hurts me, I would say drop the Doom-Flayer and the Jezzails and get another Doomwheel or WLC for more-more damage, 40 Clanrats for more bodies/targets/shock absorbers, or even a Clawlord so you have something to buff the Clanrats and another Warlock Engineer so you can squirt mortal wounds in the hero phase like the Clanrats will be squirting the musk of fear!

[Dracan]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

The Ratling gun plus the warpfire thrower makes your unit of Stormfiends great for taking on hordes, and the shock gauntlets only pile it on further. Thinking about the second unit, what do you want them to achieve? So far, we've mostly been trying to squeeze what little specialisation we can still get from the unit, usually in terms of ranged (wind launchers, ratlings) Vs short range and close combat (grinders, warpfire throwers), but thinking about what we want the unit to achieve and trying to tailor it to that is worthwhile. 

With that in mind, it might be worth asking: what are you expecting to face? Is it an idea to build the other variations so you have the option of using all six weapon types depending on enemy? Something more tailored to an elite enemy like Stormcast might be grinders (because ratlings aren't going to do a lot against their armour without buffs), doomflayers (their Rend makes them a better choice than shockers, but beware a low roll on your 2D3 hits) and warpfire throwers (you're going to want to get up close with this unit so the 8" range isn't too much of a problem, and Stormcast hate mortal wounds).

Just some ideas to get you started!

Ended up pretty much building one of each in the end, it really is a pity you cannot take them pickAmix  

But in the end 6 different stormfiends should give options to try out and play them with some differing styles.

All i keep thinking is i want a 3 man 1x Grinder and 2x doomflayer team 😢  and a 3x Ratling or 3x Mortar team, tbh while i think the flamer has its uses its maybe better to use the teams for that suicide charge.

[Overread]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

Stormfiends, I love the miniatures. But any advice about magnetize them?

Having looked at the kit I think that to magnetize you've got to consider a few things;

1) On most there are tubes and pipes that connect onto parts of the mount arms and chest weapons (where present). These tubes are basically not practical to magnetize and won't fit nicely if you magnetize the weapon arm itself. So you've got two choices:

a) Cut them off - yep just remove them and it removes the problem. Skaven being skaven you can easily leave the connection nub on and just smooth off the old tube connection point and have it as a socket (used when it was housed back in the dark laboratories where it was born like the tube connection points on people in the Matrix)

b) Bend them (carefully) and connect them to a different part of the arm. You might also ahve to use greenstuff to make a new connection point. Basically moving the connection so that they are now fixed to parts of the model that won't move when you add and swap over magnetized parts. A good example is the chest mounted weapon on the gattling/grinder which as a tube connecting into the front weapon - you can easily move that so that its connecting into the chest rather than the weapon itself and then use a bit of greenstuff to just give it a little socket.

2) On the shock/doomflayer there are a lot of little parts that connect onto the model around the arms and shoulders. These are very small and whilst you "can" magnetize them its not particularly practical to do so. You can fill in the connection points, or pick and choose some from each so that its got some extra flayers and some extra shock parts. In general you could put the shock parts (its just more warpstone) onto the model only and let teh arms be the choice between shock or flayer. 

 

You can do it, but its not the most neat of magnetizing model options. That said it might mean that you only have to buy and use two kits at most - perhaps three if going all skyre; whilst haivng all the options open to you to pick from. 

[GeneralZero]

15 minutes ago, Overread said:

ou can do it, but its not the most neat of magnetizing model options. That said it might mean that you only have to buy and use two kits at most - perhaps three if going all skyre; whilst haivng all the options open to you to pick from. 

Good thing is that I have 3 packs to build. Bad thing is that I no clue how to build them (which weapons)

I also discovered that the canon/catapult is not too hard to magnetize and the bell furnace also ... With those 3 kints I thingk we can have something versatile to use.

Edited February 26, 2019 by GeneralZero

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, AliKing said:

Under my supreme leadership

 

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

not knowing it’s all planned by Thanqoul.

 

3 hours ago, AliKing said:

not knowing if I am actually Thanquol or not 😜

 

 

I'm going to sit this fight out. I'll just grab a small, humble share of 40%, and you guys can have the remaining 60%. Everybody wins

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, Mayple said:

I'm going to sit this fight out. I'll just grab a small, humble share of 40%, and you guys can have the remaining 60%. Everybody wins

Nah how about 25% for you 15 for Aliking, because he seems to know how to amuse mighty Skreech Verminking and and the rest for Us-us.

Just because all of that fighting for becoming our new pet-things amused Us-us very much.

 

[Mayple]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Nah how about 25% for you 15 for Aliking, because he seems to know how to amuse mighty Skreech Verminking and and the rest for Us-us.

Just because all of that fighting for becoming our new pet-things amused Us-us very much.

 

25% more? You are very generous. I accept this new deal. 65% is a fair sum. 

[Baron Wastelands]

6 hours ago, Dracan said:

SOooo I am buss building 3 stormfiends, I've already got 3 painted up with ratlings, warpfire and shock gauntlets.

Do i do the same again? I'm not sure...

Only thing i think im sure on is no drill as the ratling is just better...

I am very torn on second warpfire and especially on shock vs flayer...

Any recommendations?

Personally, I think you should build fiends for range, or for melee. Given that the warpfire throwers are so short range, they belong in the latter category for me. So:

Ranged: Ratling, windlauncher, shock gauntlets. This unit benefits from a warlock/arch warlock a lot, with e.g deranged inventor, vigordust injector, and sparks. The gauntlets may seem like a waste, but that’s a lot of wounds you can allocate before reducing your ranged capability,

Melee: shock gauntlets, warpfire thrower, grinderfists. Grinderfists are not shabby in melee, and since this unit doesn’t benefit so much from buffs you can use the grinderfists to get closer quickly.

 

5 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

What would you field at 500?

Not sure 80 clanrats + hero is the “most fun” 😝 though it is undeniably effective at that points level.

Think I’d rather field one of:

a) master moulder, HPA, 30 giant rats

b) warlock engineer, 3 stormfiends, 3 Jezzails

c) plague furnace, 40 monks, 5 pcbs

but then I always do prefer pure clans!

Edited February 26, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[Nevar]

8 hours ago, sorokyl said:

There's not much meat here. You better hope you blow them up before they get to you.  

That is sort of also the point of the x20 Clanrats.

I want the x30 Witches to butcher all of the clanrats and leave only the Warpfire Thrower sitting inside them engaged.  Clanrats are just pillows to protect the Warpfire Throwers so they can self destruct and melt the horde of witches/ghouls that are the main unit of my opponents around here. All my shooting otherwise will be focused on killing Cauldrons of Blood, and various undead dragon type things.

[Noit]

The latest creations(Abominations):

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
3 x Stormfiends (260)
3 x Stormfiends (260)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (100)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
Grey Seer (120)

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (220)

Hell Pit Abomination (220)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells

Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 174

 

I feel that pure Skryre lists have no chance at competitive level,is it the same for you too guys?

Edited February 26, 2019 by Noit

[NemoVonUtopia]

24 minutes ago, Noit said:

I feel that pure Skryre lists have no chance at competitive level,is it the same for you too guys?

Based off of past experience I only started doing well with skryre once I allied in a unit of clanrats. I will try out various pure skryre lists as I paint up more clanrats and stormvermin but I expect to struggle with battleplans with several objectives.

That being said it doesnt bother me much, I'm not much of a competitive player and I expect a decent amount of my army to blow itself up.

[Sleboda]

7 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

Based off of past experience I only started doing well with skryre once I allied in a unit of clanrats.

Has it been clarified yet if allied units break the clan battleline-ifs?

[Skreech Verminking]

7 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Has it been clarified yet if allied units break the clan battleline-ifs?

Sadly there isn’t any faq for clarification of the allies system right now.

[Kramer]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Has it been clarified yet if allied units break the clan battleline-ifs?

I don’t see the argument for it being possible? 

Not trying to spark a whole discussion. Just curious to hear the opposite argument. To me it seems very clear, skaven is not an ally option so it’s not possible. 

[Kirjava13]

With the exception of Nurgle for Pestilens, Skaven can only ally other SKAVENTIDE units. Why would you ally SKAVENTIDE when your whole army is already a Skaventide army? Well...

The rest depends on whether allies count as units in 'your army'. I guess an argument could be made that as allies don't normally affect things like allegiance abilities, you can take 400 points of non-CLAN units in a 2000 point army, and certainly I would be quite happy if that were the case. Unfortunately, I think we will be stuck at the 0 or 60 Clanrats scenario.

[GeneralZero]

23 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

With the exception of Nurgle for Pestilens, Skaven can only ally other SKAVENTIDE units. Why would you ally SKAVENTIDE when your whole army is already a Skaventide army? Well...

The rest depends on whether allies count as units in 'your army'. I guess an argument could be made that as allies don't normally affect things like allegiance abilities, you can take 400 points of non-CLAN units in a 2000 point army, and certainly I would be quite happy if that were the case. Unfortunately, I think we will be stuck at the 0 or 60 Clanrats scenario.

TBH, the 0 or 60 Clanrats scenario is not that bad. Well, probably not 3x20. More likely 40+20+20 or 40+40+... So, Once you have paid this tax, your range of options is wide open. You can go pure CLAN. For example, full skryre but with 2 masterclans (I like Thanquol+vermilord or greyseer+vermilord).

Finaly, the system is not that bad. Skaven don't really need allies. This is one of the richest (old) army out there. So many units.