AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[MisterJoshua]

On 7/26/2019 at 12:03 AM, Skavelynn said:

I'd go with option 1. 

I still don't think stormfiends fit into many lists that well, even with the pt decrease. If you use them as a shooting unit you're essentially getting a single ratling gun and jezzail that has more wounds, and a melee model that just tanks damage. 9 Jezzails are just way better for shooting, they have longer range and can deal some really good damage with warpstone sparks (and without). 20 acolytes is a scary thing for your opponent too 😄

I've seen this  opinion many times on various forums and can't figure out the basis for it. My theory is that because the weapon options changed in the new book people wrote them off without trying them. As someone recently coming into the game I look at them as a really strong ranged unit. Not wanting to leave it just at that though, I'll try and put a little substance into my argument for others to refute.

- Stormfiends have to suffer 20 wounds before losing any effectiveness as a ranged unit. Acolytes and Jezzails both lose effectiveness as soon as they start to take wounds. They have a 4+ save making damaging them at range harder, and they are more able to sustain the MWs from buffs that are placed on them.

- Stormfiends are one unit. When comparing them to multiple units of ratling guns, acolytes or jezzails. You can buff your shooting with a single MMMWP spell or Vigourdust. When you use a warpspark to can also apply it to the Doomrocket and a nearby Doomwheel.

- They don't lose out much on range compared to the Jezzails. Jezzails do have a 30" range but you're usually keeping them still. Their effective range is 36". Stormfiends is 30" on the Windlaunchers, and you can shoot targets you can't see, which is nice for sniping support characters hiding behind scenery.  The damage potential of 2 Windlaunchers  is less than the Jezzails, but not massively so for a much sturdier unit.

- Stormfiends are quite reliable. Their ratling cannons are better than ratling guns, wounding on 3s instead of 4s.  They also do base 3d6 compared to 2d6, but don't have an overcharge. The buffs you put on fiends can't be stopped. MMMWP can be dispelled or fail, but your Deranged Inventor and Vigourdust always work, and the unit has the wounds to absorb a few uses of each.

 

5 hours ago, Pejzub said:

Stormfiends - I plan on running Windlaunchers+Ratling cannons, now, I understand you are going to say to just play Jezzails and a weapon team or two, but man, do I hate Jezzails. The MMMWP chipping, puny saves, and god forbid if someone actually get some MW on them with spells.  My question is about the melee weapon, I get that generaly the Doomflayers are probably the better choice, but with Vigordust and MMMWP arent shock gauntlets actually more reliable and with bigger damage output?

Sneaky edit: Who to make a general and what trait to take? Furnace to reroll prayers? DI on bombardier? Master of magic on Grey seer?

That is the conventional wisdom, but what about Skaven is conventional? Yes, do it! I too am running a 6 strong unit with Windlaunchers and Ratling cannons and it's awesome. I take the shock gauntlets as my shooting fiends tend to avoid as much combat as possible and the Doomflayers are better if you charge. Also if you're buffed my MMMWP you can re-roll hits fishing for extra 6s on the shock gauntlets (it's a very Skaven thing to do). I've not done the maths for it, but in desperate times...

Another trick I'm looking forward to trying out (but haven't done yet) is putting the fiends with a Warp-Grinder team and then either Skitterleaping or Gnawholing the warlock to them. They won't get MMMWP turn 1 as they'd be off the field, but can still use Deranged Inventor. Your lovely fiends can then pop up 9" from the enemy and open fire with their 12" ratling cannons. 

It's perhaps controversial, but I also believe the Windlaunchers are a better option than the Warpfire throwers if you don't know who you're facing. They have more utility against a variety of opponents, and are still decent vs hordes.

Also the models makes a huge difference. Giant rat ogres with tiny brain-rats grafted to them? Or old monkey rats with rifles?

 

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

3)Stormfiends are a very strong unit, especially when buffed with mmmwp, vigordust I nectar and the +1damage buff. I’ve played with them and was very pleased with their damage output, still jezzails with the +1damage bonus have done a lot more for me, but seeing how you’re basically skipping everything Skavenlike (meaning you have almost no body’s on the field (no staying power)) you might be better of taking the stormfiends, since they are much more resilient than our snipers.

6)I would take the bombardier or a warpseer as your warlord.

give your bombardier the deranged inventor trait, with which you can give your Stormfiends a weaker mmmwp buff when the spell doesn’t go off

This is what I've been doing and it works really well.  The bombardier casts MMMWP on the fiends. If it doesn't go off they still get to re-roll misses, if it does go off the Bombardier can use the Deranged Inventor to fire his own rocket, letting you More-more-Doomrocket! with a little less risk (maybe don't re-roll misses that aren't a 1)

My experience is limited. I'm quite new to the game, but so far all the games I've played have been controlled by the Stormfiends and my opponent(s) saying they had no answer to them. I played a FeC army at the weekend. The Windlaunchers put 8 wounds on the Terrorgheist turn 1, and that was without MMMWP going off.  Turn 2 they put down the Crypt Haunter general who was at -2 to hit (artifact + LoS) while the ratling cannons destroyed the unit of Horrors in front of him. I then Doomrocketed the Archregent, which was hilarious and we called it after 2 turns.

Edited July 29, 2019 by MisterJoshua

[Skreech Verminking]

29 minutes ago, MisterJoshua said:

This is what I've been doing and it works really well.  The bombardier casts MMMWP on the fiends. If it doesn't go off they still get to re-roll misses, if it does go off the Bombardier can use the Deranged Inventor to fire his own rocket, letting you More-more-Doomrocket! with a little less risk (maybe don't re-roll misses that aren't a 1)

My experience is limited. I'm quite new to the game, but so far all the games I've played have been controlled by the Stormfiends and my opponent(s) saying they had no answer to them. I played a FeC army at the weekend. The Windlaunchers put 8 wounds on the Terrorgheist turn 1, and that was without MMMWP going off.  Turn 2 they put down the Crypt Haunter general who was at -2 to hit (artifact + LoS) while the ratling cannons destroyed the unit of Horrors in front of him. I then Doomrocketed the Archregent, which was hilarious and we called it after 2 turns.

Well your definitely rolling better then average, when your getting 8wounds of on a terrorgheist with just 2wondlaunchers hitting and wounding on 4s.

and yeah, The deranged Inventor trait is basically like an insurance for me, should I not get mmmwp of.

although having used it a few times on my bombardier, this little fellow, just wants to blow up every time I use him.

he basically never survives his own shots😂😂, when I’m rolling.

as for a Skaventide list where Stormfiends are used as the backbone, there is that one Swiss guy who’s participating at the world something warhammer tournament, and is using a list, that is deeply pushing towards the use of Stormfiends.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Num said:

Hi, I have 2 rules questions regarding the Warlock Engineers/Bombardiers please:

- Can we cast Warp Lightning more than once per engineer? For example if the engineer is on top of a balewind. The warscroll says any number of engineer can cast the spell. I suppose it negates the core rules on that?

- Can we use multiple engineer to boost a same Warp Lightning Cannon? The warscroll says that a single engineer cannot boost more than one cannon. But what if I boost one cannon with two engineers? Do I get to roll 18 dice then?

Thanks

1. Yep, multiple engineers\bombadiers can use it in the same hero phase. Warscrolls take precedence now so that spell ignores the whole "only 1 spell cast attempt per phase" thing. Kroaks Celestial Deliverance is another example of something that can be cast multiple times.

2. No, the wording implies that an Engineer specifically allows it to roll 12 dice, not add 6 more to the initial 6.


Also, all of this Stormfiend talk and @MisterJoshua talking about some specifics... I think I'll convert my 6 Warpfire\Warp-Grinders this week and give them a go this weekend if I can get a game in. As much as I love my Jezzails, paying more points for a sturdier unit (albeit potentially less damage) is more up my alley. Not to mention, my local people haven't seen my Stormfiends out in over a year... so once they experience them being switched over to the shooting configuration with all our buffs...

Oh boy.

[MisterJoshua]

31 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well your definitely rolling better then average, when your getting 8wounds of on a terrorgheist with just 2wondlaunchers hitting and wounding on 4s.

and yeah, The deranged Inventor trait is basically like an insurance for me, should I not get mmmwp of.

although having used it a few times on my bombardier, this little fellow, just wants to blow up every time I use him.

he basically never survives his own shots😂😂, when I’m rolling.

as for a Skaventide list where Stormfiends are used as the backbone, there is that one Swiss guy who’s participating at the world something warhammer tournament, and is using a list, that is deeply pushing towards the use of Stormfiends.

I did roll a little over average, but they were sparked so D3+1 damage per hit. -3 rend gives no save. I was still re-rolling hits, so it averages at 4.5 hits, 2.25 wounds. Think I wounded 3 times and rolled 7 wounds + 3 from sparks and he saved 2. Like I say, above average but certainly not outlandish or unreasonable to get that result.

My bombardier also took out a whole unit of 5 fleshhounds in another game. I only More-more it if he gets the re-roll. Verminous Valour 

14 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

1. Yep, multiple engineers\bombadiers can use it in the same hero phase. Warscrolls take precedence now so that spell ignores the whole "only 1 spell cast attempt per phase" thing. Kroaks Celestial Deliverance is another example of something that can be cast multiple times.

2. No, the wording implies that an Engineer specifically allows it to roll 12 dice, not add 6 more to the initial 6.


Also, all of this Stormfiend talk and @MisterJoshua talking about some specifics... I think I'll convert my 6 Warpfire\Warp-Grinders this week and give them a go this weekend if I can get a game in. As much as I love my Jezzails, paying more points for a sturdier unit (albeit potentially less damage) is more up my alley. Not to mention, my local people haven't seen my Stormfiends out in over a year... so once they experience them being switched over to the shooting configuration with all our buffs...

Oh boy.

Excellent! Glad to see my ramblings paying off. I don't get to play often, so I'm keen to see how it works with a more regular player and against varied opponents. My plan is to use the Warpgrinder to drop them in range of something that really wants killing, then set them up behind it so the grinder team can screen them from charges. If the skitterleap and gnawhole move both fail or provide no benefit you can bring them up within the engineer's run range.

Also, on 1. I believe Num was talking about casting Warp Lightning with the same caster more than once in a turn using a Balewind, to which I believe the answer is No. Multiple engineers can cast it, but one cannot cast it multiple times.

Edited July 29, 2019 by MisterJoshua

[Pejzub]

Glad I opened a Stormfiend discussion. Bunch of people seems to like them as much as I do - and the same amount of people hating the Jezzails for the same reason I do. The math behind them is actually really good - if we go with Windlaunchers/Ratguns/Shock gauntles and count MMMWP+Vigordust+Spark we are at 14/22/22(thats including crushing blows)dmg on average againts 4+ save. 9 Jezzails are at ~15-16 (gets a little swingy with the 2MWs on 6 and the 6+ save with -2 rend). Not too shabby I would say. Now do the math after two rounds of MMMVP and Vigordust chip MW and Stormfiends are still rocking steady plus are actually beasts in close combat while you are left with 5 Jezzails at best.

34 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

as for a Skaventide list where Stormfiends are used as the backbone, there is that one Swiss guy who’s participating at the world something warhammer tournament, and is using a list, that is deeply pushing towards the use of Stormfiends.

Thats the ETC (european team championship) I was talking about. We are actually playing againts him the first round. I wouldnt say he is deeply pushing towards the use of Stormfiends. He has 2x3 Fiends and 3xWLC with Bombardier and Arch-Warlock. If he would have played Acolytes he could have straight went Skryre. 

I am okay with cutting the Furnace but not sure what to put in for the 200pts. I cant fit Warpseer and I really need the battleshock immunity for Monks and Clanrats. Not sure it is worth it to sacriface the immunity completely and just depend on Inspiring presence just to fit WLV and something for 100pts.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Pejzub said:

1)Thats the ETC (european team championship) I was talking about. We are actually playing againts him the first round. I wouldnt say he is deeply pushing towards the use of Stormfiends. He has 2x3 Fiends and 3xWLC with Bombardier and Arch-Warlock. If he would have played Acolytes he could have straight went Skryre. 

I am okay with cutting the Furnace but not sure what to put in for the 200pts. I cant fit Warpseer and I really need the battleshock immunity for Monks and Clanrats. Not sure it is worth it to sacriface the immunity completely and just depend on Inspiring presence just to fit WLV and something for 100pts.

Yeah I forgot that he had the cannons in his list

although they didn’t do much in the battle, when i fought him.😂

He tried to snipe my Warbringer and rolled poorly, while I somehow made all of my aftersave.

The horned rat indeed protects, unlike some other gods!

anyways good luck 😉.

 

ps: throw out Thanqoul and take the warpseer.

he is the better choice for his points than Thanqoul, and with the 100p left I’d take the Vortex with you.

also throw out the furnace, with the warpseer in your list there’s literally no use for it.

your better of just taking a warplightning cannon or something else for bolstering your glorious skryre firing line.

or upgrading your clanrats.

meatshields are always needed.

60of them will hold you the line for a turn but not much more.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, MisterJoshua said:

Excellent! Glad to see my ramblings paying off. I don't get to play often, so I'm keen to see how it works with a more regular player and against varied opponents. My plan is to use the Warpgrinder to drop them in range of something that really wants killing, then set them up behind it so the grinder team can screen them from charges. If the skitterleap and gnawhole move both fail or provide no benefit you can bring them up within the engineer's run range.

Also, on 1. I believe Num was talking about casting Warp Lightning with the same caster more than once in a turn using a Balewind, to which I believe the answer is No. Multiple engineers can cast it, but one cannot cast it multiple times.

Well, I mostly used Jezzails over 1-2 WLC's, but I never really felt compelled to compare them to Stormfiends. I do like the Grinder tactic.. may give it a go since mine hasn't been used since I tried gautfyre over a year and a half ago.

Ah, I took it as him asking about casting the same multiple times with different casters.. because yeah, that's allowed with Warp Lightning. Same caster is still only once as you mentioned.

 

[Gwendar]

May give this a go. Considered 9 Fiends, but this setup is a bit more robust, but I know there was a nice list that's done well in recent tourneys using 9:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

DI can be used as backup for MMMWP or on the Doomwheel.. which honestly does quite well on average against lighter heroes. Worse case scenario it gets focused down by people unfamiliar with it. Probably will be Skitterleaping the AW to throw out WLV and then he should be in range of the MG crew coming in to wreak havoc. Some potential edits are adding in Clanrats or using 9 Fiends over 6. Maybe dropping the  WLV for something else. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Gwendar

[MisterJoshua]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

May give this a go. Considered 9 Fiends, but this setup is a bit more robust, but I know there was a nice list that's done well in recent tourneys using 9:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

DI can be used as backup for MMMWP or on the Doomwheel.. which honestly does quite well on average against lighter heroes. Worse case scenario it gets focused down by people unfamiliar with it. Probably will be Skitterleaping the AW to throw out WLV and then he should be in range of the MG crew coming in to wreak havoc. Some potential edits are adding in Clanrats or using 9 Fiends over 6. Maybe dropping the  WLV for something else. 

Heh. Almost exactly my proposed list (bottom of page 84). Only difference is I don’t have a Verminlord so am using the bell, and instead of the Seer I’ve gone for a WLC. I’d be interested to hear how it goes

[Gwendar]

@MisterJoshua I haven't looked really.. I've been in and out of TGA as of late and only just saw the conversation from last page and this one. I'm up in the air on the Warpseer, as he generates more CP than I will ever spend typically.. but that BS bubble is the best part about him really and it's saved my Clanrats on the flanks far too often to consider dropping it easily. 

But yeah, a bit iffy on it altogether. You see, the reason I run 6-9 Jezzails is because I always combine that with 25-30 Acolytes. For 720, I can get 9 Jezzails (who don't get buffed by anything but DI if the Acolytes don't need it, this lets them reposition and still get RR hits) and 25 Acolytes. The Acolytes, even unbuffed can pull some great numbers; with only a Spark, they did 21 damage to childish-Fyreslayer-guys' Hearthguard Berserkers. Sure, the Stormfiends are more resilient, but I'm not sure if I can spread the damage the same way I'm used to with my typical setup.

I use this combination as it gives me a unit with 20" threat range that will delete almost anything it touches, especially hordes and I typically use this unit to clear battleline and elites. The Jezzails then remove at least 1 hero\behemoth per turn on average and sit back in relative safety most of the time. I don't calculate them hurting themselves as I literally never do it to them unless I really feel like I need to, which is rare. I think the only way for me to get comparable results is to run 9 Stormfiends, and that's a lot of eggs in 1 basket...

...But it sure would be a fun basket to tote around, so I'll get back with you all on that front.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Gwendar

[swarmofseals]

I'm really digging the Stormfiends discussion over the last page or two. I've been thinking about this warscroll since last weekend, and I definitely think it's underrated. If we assume spark, vigordust and rerolls to hit, 12 Jezzails deal an average of 5.33 mortal wounds and 16 rend 2 damage, while 6 Stormfiends (2 ratling guns and 2 wind launchers) will deal an average of 24.889 rend 1 damage and 8 rend 3 damage.  So Stormfiends are a tiny bit cheaper, have an overall advantage on damage, a massive advantage in survivability (38 wounds and a flat 4+ vs. 24 wounds and a 4+ only against shooting), and can do work in close combat as well (11.55 rend 1 damage and 14.22 rend 0 damage, assuming +1 to hit and no rerolls). Jezzails, on the other hand, have a substantial advantage in range and will thus have an easier time of target selection, for the most part. 

It seems to me that both options have a potential role.

[Pejzub]

29 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Jezzails, on the other hand, have a substantial advantage in range and will thus have an easier time of target selection, for the most part.

Which is more often than not ruined by Line of Sight (atleast thats how it works for me the way we play with 7-8 terrain pieces), while wind launchers do not care.

7 hours ago, Gwendar said:

 Sure, the Stormfiends are more resilient, but I'm not sure if I can spread the damage the same way I'm used to with my typical setup.

I use this combination as it gives me a unit with 20" threat range that will delete almost anything it touches, especially hordes and I typically use this unit to clear battleline and elites. The Jezzails then remove at least 1 hero\behemoth per turn on average and sit back in relative safety most of the time. I don't calculate them hurting themselves as I literally never do it to them unless I really feel like I need to, which is rare. I think the only way for me to get comparable results is to run 9 Stormfiends, and that's a lot of eggs in 1 basket...

...But it sure would be a fun basket to tote around, so I'll get back with you all on that front.

The thing for me is that Jezzails can get a lot swingy without MMMWP (I dont use Vigordust on them), as the wound rerolls is usually what makes or breaks the needed 14 dmg that I usually require from the unit. And the MMMWP itself takes 1-3 jezzails in a two rounds. I am pretty confident you can spread the damage the way you are used to, as Ratling guns have basically the same threat range as Acolytes, sure, its worse rend and only 2 damage (with spark), but we talking 6D6 or 9D6 attacks and I assume it can get pretty hard to fire all the acolytes at the same time. Plus given that stormfiends kinda want to march forward, I think you can most of the time get actually a better shot with the 24" windlaunchers than with the 30" jezzails sitting at the edge of the table (and especially given the no need for visibility going for launchers).

And if you still opt to go for 6 fiends only (which give only a slightly worse long range numbers than 9 jezzails), you can still go with 20 Acolytes for 760pts, which gets you two "close" range threats. Now add the survivability and actually a scary melee combat into the equation.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Pejzub said:

The thing for me is that Jezzails can get a lot swingy without MMMWP (I dont use Vigordust on them), as the wound rerolls is usually what makes or breaks the needed 14 dmg that I usually require from the unit. And the MMMWP itself takes 1-3 jezzails in a two rounds. I am pretty confident you can spread the damage the way you are used to, as Ratling guns have basically the same threat range as Acolytes, sure, its worse rend and only 2 damage (with spark), but we talking 6D6 or 9D6 attacks and I assume it can get pretty hard to fire all the acolytes at the same time. Plus given that stormfiends kinda want to march forward, I think you can most of the time get actually a better shot with the 24" windlaunchers than with the 30" jezzails sitting at the edge of the table (and especially given the no need for visibility going for launchers).

And if you still opt to go for 6 fiends only (which give only a slightly worse long range numbers than 9 jezzails), you can still go with 20 Acolytes for 760pts, which gets you two "close" range threats. Now add the survivability and actually a scary melee combat into the equation.

True, they can be swingy, but I have backup with the Acolytes. I see your points with the Stormfiends which is why I'm going to try them, so we'll see how they do over a few games.

I'll likely try to push for 9 and concentrate all my hitting power into that; not really worth running the Acolytes in my opinion when they aren't getting megabuffed. WLV is still a staple so that needs to stay too.. along with the Warpseer.

[MisterJoshua]

45 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

True, they can be swingy, but I have backup with the Acolytes. I see your points with the Stormfiends which is why I'm going to try them, so we'll see how they do over a few games.

I'll likely try to push for 9 and concentrate all my hitting power into that; not really worth running the Acolytes in my opinion when they aren't getting megabuffed. WLV is still a staple so that needs to stay too.. along with the Warpseer.

There's only 100pt difference between the 9 Jezzails and the 6 fiends so if you can find that you can run the rest of the list as-was. I think the acolytes could still have value. They could still be buffed on the turn you needed them, using the lesser DI buff for the fiends for a round. Saying that, I've never even considered running acolytes as I don't own any and the prospect of buying or making some doesn't appeal at the moment, except maybe 5 to run as battleline in a small Skryre force.

9 fiends is appealing, but again I don't own them and aren't planning to. There's too many other great units to try out!

Edited July 30, 2019 by MisterJoshua

[Pejzub]

8 minutes ago, MisterJoshua said:

There's too many other great units to try out!

There is nothing better than a huge mutated rat with three Gatling cannons being controlled by a little skaven-brain happily sitting on its back.

Change my mind.

While at this topic, what are some other units you wanted to try, which are not considered staple and you see a potential in them, or you are actually actively playing them and having a success?

[Laststand]

The Stormfiends conversation is really interesting as I am trying out 6 in a 1,500 list tomorrow for games v stormcast and khorne.

Arch-warlock

-Gryph feather charm

-Deranged inventor

-More, more, more warp power

 

Grey seer on screaming bell

-death frenzy

 

40 clan rats (spears)

20 clan rats (blades)

6 x stormfiends (windlaunchers, ratling guns, doomflayers)

6 x Jezzails

 

Hoping to delete 2 enemy units a turn and play havoc with their plans. 

[Darkhan]

Hey peeps.

Going to a tournament end of August. Would like a couple points regarding a list, worked pretty well last time. 

But I think there is room for improvement. And tip from more experienced players would be appreciated.

 List is:

Verminlord Warpseer (Suspicious stone)

Grey Seer (Skitterleap)

Grey Seer (Death Frenzy)

Arch-Warlock (General, overseer of destruction)

20x clanrats

20x clanrats

20x clanrats

6x Jezzails

1x ratling gun

1x ratling gun

1x ratling gun

40x plague monks

Warp Lightning Spell

This is 1940 points, where i could buy a extra command point just to safe a turn 1 battleshock.

So the question is, removing the grey seer with death frenzy I can get 200 extra points. I could then fit 40 extra clanrats, and vermintide endless spell..or 20 extra clans, and some other shenanigans.

Tips?:)

 

[Pejzub]

In my personal experience, 6 jezzails is simply not enough. They wont snipe a big (12+ wounds) hero and the small ones are usually easy to hide even with jezzails range, so I would probably increase them to 9, cut one seer. Maybe cut one ratling gun and use the remaining 120 pts for something.

[MisterJoshua]

2 hours ago, Pejzub said:

There is nothing better than a huge mutated rat with three Gatling cannons being controlled by a little skaven-brain happily sitting on its back.

Change my mind.

While at this topic, what are some other units you wanted to try, which are not considered staple and you see a potential in them, or you are actually actively playing them and having a success?

Hmm, interesting. I think thematically and miniature-wise the Doomwheel is my absolute favourite unit, but the fiends are a close second. I've only recently begun playing AoS so it's usually 'want to try' rather than 'actively playing'. 

You can see the army list and rational a few pages back (bottom of 84) but in general I enjoy using units that look cool, that aren't generally the most fancied and I like an overall mixed force. This is what drew me to Stormfiends. They look so awesome but didn't seem to be in the 'meta' for Skaven at the moment. The same applies to the other units I like: the Bell and the Wheel. Both are so intrinsically Skaven. It's the image of the Doomwheel scooting around while the Bell screams away that drew me to the army. I also don't plan to run a Verminlord, which is controversial, but I think worth it for that awesome moment when the bell rolls 6s and summons one in from nowhere . I'll also take a WLC because, well, they're just cool aren't they? It's a fluffy list sure, but I also think it could be effective.

 

[Num]

On the stormfiend debate, I just fielded 6 in a 2000pts game today against Idoneth Deepkin.

I'll post a battle report on my TGA blog soon, but they indeed were absolute MVP... They managed to wipe an Eidolon, two Allopexes, 20 thralls and Isharann without losing any single model! But then the Leviadon wiped them by killing 3 and making the other 3 leave to battleshock...

I agree that it was their survivability that saved me. The acolytes on the other hand needs much more babysitting. My unit of 15 got charged early and with only 7 left I couldn't scale their damage enough.

I'm hesitating to remove the 15 acolytes and a cannon to field 3 more stormfiends (total of 9) and a warp grinder team. But that would make a lot of Skaven eggs in a same gnawhole... It may be risky...

This was my 980pts Left flank....

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Num
typo

[Obeisance]

Is there anything preventing a Verminlord summoned by the bell moving/charging/casting?

I rolled my first boxcars tonight. =D

[Num]

And here is the battle report! I wish you a pleasant read and welcome any feedback.

 

[swarmofseals]

I'm curious how you guys have found Skryre Acolytes to function in practice. On paper the damage is extremely good, but with only an 8" range they are practically a melee unit, and their defensive efficiency is quite bad.

How do you guys find yourselves using them in practice? Can you screen them and still get decent target selection? How do they perform against opponents who have access to ranged damage?

[Gwendar]

9 hours ago, MisterJoshua said:

There's only 100pt difference between the 9 Jezzails and the 6 fiends so if you can find that you can run the rest of the list as-was. I think the acolytes could still have value. They could still be buffed on the turn you needed them, using the lesser DI buff for the fiends for a round. Saying that, I've never even considered running acolytes as I don't own any and the prospect of buying or making some doesn't appeal at the moment, except maybe 5 to run as battleline in a small Skryre force.

9 fiends is appealing, but again I don't own them and aren't planning to. There's too many other great units to try out!

True, but I think in order to squeeze them in I would need to drop the Warpseer and my only hero's would be the AW and Grey Seer (skitterleap) for the WLV combo. I face a lot of T1 charges or heavy close combat in my local meta so I absolutely need that giant BS immunity bubble as I am seldom given the first turn, which means I get Clanrat casualties right away no matter how far back I deploy most of the time. For me, I can seldom leave home without the Warpseer:

- Dreaded Warpgale snipes most characters on a 5-6 roll with it's massive range. Or locks something down further in conjunction with WLV.
- Generating extra CP isn't typically that great for my lists who aren't CP heavy, but the new CA's can help boost up or save my Clanrat screens.
- Even without Suspicious Stone\*insert defensive artifact here* or Verminous Valour, he is wonderfully tanky and typically ensures I have a point captured throughout the game in Hero controlled battleplans.
- Or you know, just throw his orb for a clutch hero kill; this has worked for me numerous times against another hero standing on an objective in Three Places of power, etc.

Or... 20ish Acolytes. I just don't know, but as with everything I have to playtest things out over a couple of games before I can make any judgement calls.

8 hours ago, Pejzub said:

While at this topic, what are some other units you wanted to try, which are not considered staple and you see a potential in them, or you are actually actively playing them and having a success?

To chime in, I always had a thing for large Gutter Runner units. I haven't used them in a good while, but I would consider them a cheap enough threat that can do decent damage and make a good harassment unit. Of course, the same can be said for units of 5-10 (minus the damage part) coming in from the edge. Best 60 points I've spent, most of the time.


Anyway, I'm about to sit down and redo these Stormfiends. I might manager to get my Deceiver painted today so I'll be sure to post him + my Corrupter if so.

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

I'm curious how you guys have found Skryre Acolytes to function in practice. On paper the damage is extremely good, but with only an 8" range they are practically a melee unit, and their defensive efficiency is quite bad.

How do you guys find yourselves using them in practice? Can you screen them and still get decent target selection? How do they perform against opponents who have access to ranged damage?

Run + charge gives them a 20" threat range; I generally have enough CP to auto-run them 6" if needed and they get to where they need to be quite easily. I usually run them behind one of my smaller 20-sized units of Clanrats who spread out and get in front of whatever they want to throw orbs at.

Against anyone with ranged damage, well.. it's the same case as people taking Ratling Guns, Warpfire, etc. and you have to be careful. That said, keep in mind they don't need LoS so you could keep them in\around terrain if needed. My Jezzails (or perhaps soon to be Stormfiends...) and spells deal with the ranged threats if there are any and the Acolytes mostly play defensively, shooting at whatever big melee unit is closest. If I can guarantee I'll shoot something off the board, sometimes I'll be risky and move them away from the screen to deal with it as they won't have anything to deal with it afterwards\I consider it a good 1-for-1 trade.

They surprise most people, which is fun to see in and of itself.