AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Verminlord]

I have a sneaking suspicion warbringer went up because GW didnt realize the frenzy combo was a thing until someone asked the faq team. 🐀🐀🐀

[Darkhan]

Tried the skitterleap WLV combo today against Gloomspite. Was wonderfull.

The beauty of it was the freedom I had to place the grey seer 9" away from enemy , which gave me tons of options where to cast it. 

Covering 10 squig hoppers, loongboss on mangler + some more random squigs. 

Also tried out 3 rattling guns with overseer of destruction. 

Got the double turn, 1100 something points gloomspite erased end of my turn two.

[Obeisance]

So game last night was interesting. We played the new GHB mission where the single objective teleports around.

I had two turns where I only managed to cast a single spell. Just couldn't roll 6+ on casting rolls. Was awful. I got off a Warp Lightning, but dropped Warpgale, Dreaded Warpgale, Crack's Call, Wither, Death Frenzy and whatever the Magic Missile spell is called.  Wither/Crack's Call is kind of ****** against that opponent though, as both W and MV values are very high.

I speedbumped the initial charge and kept his giant lord/a unit locked down so my Plague Monks got the charge. Over two turns they ate his lord and a unit of big ogres on mounts, even though the lord halves all damage. I think even with the point bump, Plague Monks might be amazing. I'm actually tempted to get another unit. I need to remember that All Out Attack is a thing when dealing with units with that volume of attacks.

His lord got to swing on my Warpseer and did it like 9 wounds even though it wasn't a charge. Though 4+ rerollable, 5+ 5+.

Vermintide did like 4 mortal wounds all game. I think I'll drop it and take Chains or something.

The more I play with the Bombadier, the more I think he might be bad. MMWP can't go on himself. Between that, Warp Lightning or MMDR he's probably just going to die. But the rocket and MMWP has a lot of potential. Might be more of a case of me playing better.

I used the Bell super poorly. Between Monks, Bell and Doomseer I didn't have a lot of room to move. That said, I think the game showed me a bit more about how I want to play Skaven/how they should be played. Speedbump spew mortal wounds, blend things with magic, shooting, and Plague Monks. lol.

Doomwheel wasn't terrible. It pretty much circumnavigated the table shooting things. As the objective was moving around the mid-board it didn't have the option to grab anything, so it just ran over chaff and shot things. I think it warrants further play.

Ratling Gun is kind of meh without buffs as well. Need to keep it near the Bombadier. I didn't MMWP it nor Spark it.

[Darkhan]

4 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

 

Ratling Gun is kind of meh without buffs as well. Need to keep it near the Bombadier. I didn't MMWP it nor Spark it.

Have you tried taking 3? With a arch warlock with overseer of destruction? Spark them each one, overcharge them, overseer gives them rerolling hits.

Effective range 18" (with movement), it is so deadly.

[Obeisance]

I have not, but that sounds sound fun. I actually ordered an Arch Warlock and a Ratling Gun yesterday. I'll proxy another two and give it a shot.

[Darkhan]

8 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

I have not, but that sounds sound fun. I actually ordered an Arch Warlock and a Ratling Gun yesterday. I'll proxy another two and give it a shot.

Another neat thing about having 3 rattlings is that they count as 3 unit's, so you dont have to commit all the 3 guns at the same time. Shot with one, see how it went with the target, if its dead or not, and move to the next one, or continue peppering the first target:)

Drop rate goes up tho:D

Edited July 10, 2019 by Darkhan

[Darkhan]

1 minute ago, Darkhan said:

Bah, mistake double post.

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Darkhan

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

So game last night was interesting. We played the new GHB mission where the single objective teleports around.

I had two turns where I only managed to cast a single spell. Just couldn't roll 6+ on casting rolls. Was awful. I got off a Warp Lightning, but dropped Warpgale, Dreaded Warpgale, Crack's Call, Wither, Death Frenzy and whatever the Magic Missile spell is called.  Wither/Crack's Call is kind of ****** against that opponent though, as both W and MV values are very high.

I speedbumped the initial charge and kept his giant lord/a unit locked down so my Plague Monks got the charge. Over two turns they ate his lord and a unit of big ogres on mounts, even though the lord halves all damage. I think even with the point bump, Plague Monks might be amazing. I'm actually tempted to get another unit. I need to remember that All Out Attack is a thing when dealing with units with that volume of attacks.

His lord got to swing on my Warpseer and did it like 9 wounds even though it wasn't a charge. Though 4+ rerollable, 5+ 5+.

Vermintide did like 4 mortal wounds all game. I think I'll drop it and take Chains or something.

The more I play with the Bombadier, the more I think he might be bad. MMWP can't go on himself. Between that, Warp Lightning or MMDR he's probably just going to die. But the rocket and MMWP has a lot of potential. Might be more of a case of me playing better.

I used the Bell super poorly. Between Monks, Bell and Doomseer I didn't have a lot of room to move. That said, I think the game showed me a bit more about how I want to play Skaven/how they should be played. Speedbump spew mortal wounds, blend things with magic, shooting, and Plague Monks. lol.

Doomwheel wasn't terrible. It pretty much circumnavigated the table shooting things. As the objective was moving around the mid-board it didn't have the option to grab anything, so it just ran over chaff and shot things. I think it warrants further play.

Ratling Gun is kind of meh without buffs as well. Need to keep it near the Bombadier. I didn't MMWP it nor Spark it.

Yeah... happens to the best of us. I've ran my magic heavy list and got off every spell, other times I only got 1-3 off.. my FeC almost never get spells off.

The points increase to Monks wasn't enough; people are definitely still going to be taking 40-80 whenever they can. Vermintide is.. finicky. I take it for the large base to control where they can move, but Shackles is generally better so you get that 3+. Bombardier is better than the Engineer simply due to range of the rocket, but.. you shouldn't be doing MMMWP on himself anyway; that always needs to go on Acolytes, Stormfiends, etc. You shouldn't expect them to live, their purpose is to buff and maybe get a lucky rocket hit.

You just have to keep playing to practice, which you seem to have figured out. We aren't generally straightforward and requite some thought to do well with... and yeah, commit to 3 Ratlings or don't bother if that's the route you want to go.

[Darkhan]

This was the list, worked pretty well today atleast!

LEADERS

Verminlord Warpseer (300) - Artefact : Suspicious Stone

Arch-Warlock (160) - General - Command Trait : Overseer of Destruction - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!

Grey Seer (140) - Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap

Grey Seer (140) - Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy

UNITS

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Spear

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade

20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)

40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades - 1 x Icon of Pestilence - 1 x Contagion Banner - 1 x Doom Gongs - 1 x Bale Chimes

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN

Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Vermintide (40)

TOTAL: 1980/2000

[Congratz]

How does the Skaventide META look like after the nerfs? Is it still worth using WLV and Warpseer and such?

[Gwendar]

50 minutes ago, Congratz said:

How does the Skaventide META look like after the nerfs? Is it still worth using WLV and Warpseer and such?

I don't think you're going to be seeing much change. Many are already taking Skitterleap for utility and you can just Skitterleap to get the WLV in range; worse case scenario you throw it in front of something to discourage it from walking in that area. You may see people drop it, but I doubt it. Monks are still too cheap for what they do so... overall, no, I don't think the meta will be affected.

Some sacrifices will need to be made, but that's easy to do.

[Coyote]

Stormvermin - I think the numbers will show a Unit of 30 for 360 will be one of best output units for us.  Hitting +3 / Would +2 with a +4 Save - Please let me know how it works.  Losing 1 Stormvermin puts at +3/+3 which is almost perfect for a Unit still over 20 models and greater than 40+ attacks.

That extra +10 wounds before dropping to >20 - opponent needs to either generate 10+ mortals to take us below 20.  If they have -1 tend, they need to generate what 15ish wounds to threaten us to drop us under 20.

[Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Stormvermin - I think the numbers will show a Unit of 30 for 360 will be one of best output units for us.  Hitting +3 / Wounds +2 with a +4 Save - Please let me know how it works.  Losing 1 Stormvermin puts at +3/+3 which is almost perfect for a Unit still over 20 models and greater than 40+ attacks.  I think +3/+3 is that sweet spot to plan for.

That extra +10 wounds before dropping to <20 - opponent needs to either generate 10+ mortals to take us below 20.  If they have -1 tend, they need to generate what 15ish wounds to threaten us to drop us under 20.

And here’s another key - if they are choosing to hit the Stormvermin- they are choosing to Not hit something else.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Coyote

[Num]

38 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Stormvermin - I think the numbers will show a Unit of 30 for 360 will be one of best output units for us.  Hitting +3 / Would +2 with a +4 Save - Please let me know how it works.  Losing 1 Stormvermin puts at +3/+3 which is almost perfect for a Unit still over 20 models and greater than 40+ attacks.

That extra +10 wounds before dropping to >20 - opponent needs to either generate 10+ mortals to take us below 20.  If they have -1 tend, they need to generate what 15ish wounds to threaten us to drop us under 20.

That is tempting...

But I have never been able to clearly decide which melee hammer is more worthwhile between the stormvermins and the rat ogors...

I feel they are quite equivalent, besides the model count.

Any thoughts?

[Gwendar]

27 minutes ago, Num said:

That is tempting...

But I have never been able to clearly decide which melee hammer is more worthwhile between the stormvermins and the rat ogors...

I feel they are quite equivalent, besides the model count.

Any thoughts?

I spoke a bit highly of the Rat Ogors potential (with at least 6 models) early on but I'm not 100% on it.. I never did get around to testing them properly. I think at that point I would rather just have an HPA. I messed with 10-20 count units of Gutter Runners for awhile and they did well with their solid melee profile and bonus shooting.

[Darkhan]

Anyone tried swapping out 20 clanrats & 40 monks with 40 stormvermins? 4+ save compared to monks, but lose the rerolling hits from monks, and 20 bodies of clans.

[Coyote]

But get 2 attacks each, 2 inch rend and a CP from a Clawlord wholly within 13” is 3 attacks each

im not saying replace the monks, squeak, just try a unit of 30 and see how it goes squeak

[Darkhan]

13 minutes ago, Coyote said:

But get 2 attacks each, 2 inch rend and a CP from a Clawlord wholly within 13” is 3 attacks each

im not saying replace the monks, squeak, just try a unit of 30 and see how it goes squeak

I would have to lose something in order to fit 30 vermin and not lose the monks.

My sweet skitterleap WLV combo, or 3 rattling gun overseer combo. Which blew my mind yesteday🤣

Something tells me 40 stormvermin with the clawlord and deathfrenzy buff will reap a hole into another dimension...until Gaunt Summoner hits the board with a horde clearer spell:D

[Gwendar]

I really don't think either of those are worth losing for 30 Stormvermin. If you were making a list that focuses wholly (or mostly) on CC then sure. There are plenty of horde clearing spells\artifacts going around so nothing is particularly safe anyway if that's what you're worried about.

I'm also biased and love my shooting\magic. Losing that for some fragile(ish) CC is... meh.

[Tenshi]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:35 PM, Gwendar said:

As for the WLV discussion, using it as a roadblock is nice and definitely still worth it, but I think if you can pull off the Skitterleap + Gnawhole trick to get it in their deployment then I would still aim for that if a good opportunity arises. Some people are going to feel a lot safer with clumping their deployments together now if they aren't aware of this combination.

What's the trick?

[Skreech Verminking]

29 minutes ago, Tenshi said:

What's the trick?

Skitterleap the caster forward into range of your foe and in range of one of your gnawholes.

in the movement phase you’ll just select the caster, you just skitter-leaped forward for the transport through your cheeseholes back to safety.

[Darkhan]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Skitterleap the caster forward into range of your foe and in range of one of your gnawholes.

in the movement phase you’ll just select the caster, you just skitter-leaped forward for the transport through your cheeseholes back to safety.

This was my initial plan, but the opponent semi blocked the hole that was in the center, so I just thought ****** it, ill sacrifice him to get it off. But won the rolloff and just skitterleaped him back to safety:D all dem tricks

[Skreech Verminking]

11 hours ago, Darkhan said:

I would have to lose something in order to fit 30 vermin and not lose the monks.

My sweet skitterleap WLV combo, or 3 rattling gun overseer combo. Which blew my mind yesteday🤣

Something tells me 40 stormvermin with the clawlord and deathfrenzy buff will reap a hole into another dimension...until Gaunt Summoner hits the board with a horde clearer spell:D

With the Stormvermins down to 120/450p, it is definitely a good try to use them.

before they were just unusable with their pointscost and now we’ll, I think we got a good go.

loosing a unit of Stormvermins which where deathfrenzied by a terrorgheist is much easier to take than before.

still plague monks will outperform them, even with their pointincrease.

[Num]

Hi,  I have sone questions about clan Moulder please:

- does the master moulder ability restore the unit as it was at the beginning (e.g. 40 giant rats) or as it was when destroyed (e.g. 10 giant rats were left in the unit when they got destroyed)?

- do you think that the battalion is worth the 160pts for the single drop and the 4+ instead of 5+ ability?

- has anybody played moulder lists with some success?

I think I'll try a core with a screaming bell, chronomantic cogs, master moulders, 80 giant rats and 6 rat ogors (I don't have any hellpit abomination yet)

Cheers

Edited July 11, 2019 by Num

[Cosmicsheep]

It restores the whole unit as I understand. I’ve just built a 2k moulder army but not used it in any tournaments yet. I’m going with Thanquol, the battalion (worth the single drop alone) and some stormfiends for added firepower. I’ve just this week bought some Wolf Rats from forgeworld, going to give them a play tonight and see how they perform. I think moulder is often overlooked and has some great tools in there. My local players have developed a phobia of HPA and rat ogres 😂 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Cosmicsheep