AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skavelynn]

8 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Vermilord up, as expected. What do you think about those new points?

I think the HPA increase was kinda unnecessary but isn't bad.

Verminlords and Grey Seer going up was pretty obviously going to happen. Not sure why Skreech was increased 🤨

Plague Monks increase isn't going to change much, I still feel like they'll be spammed.

Stormvermin and Warpcog battalions are still too expensive in my opinion. Stormvermin need to be like 100 pts if they want to compete with plague monks and clanrats. Warpcog is really only useful if you planned on taking all those skryre units in the first place.

Ratling Guns going down was a surprise (yay!)

I think the WLV change is the biggest, since you'll need to rely on skitterleaps or gnawholes way more to cast it where you want. I don't see the skaven meta picks changing a whole lot, lists will just be a bit more expensive and maybe less WLV in games. 

 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, KingOfSuede said:

Somewhat of a correction for Stormvermin too. Is 450 for 40 still too much?  

WLV changed to the first model being wholly within 13" of the caster. People were Skitterleaping things forward anyway to cast it right?

I think it's still too much when you compare it to the cost of Monks... I just don't see anyone taking them and most would rather sacrifice some more points elsewhere and bring 40-80 Monks. As for the WLV, I never skitterleaped anything to cast it. I was typically holding back Thanquol or an Arch-Warlock in my deployment Gnawhole to cast it as that range allowed it to be placed right on top of your opponent if they deployed heavily up front which caused a ton of upset right away.

Nerfing it to 13" will prevent this, which I think is good despite the fact the Everblaze Comet (usually what I can compare the WLV to the most) can still be cast wholly within 36". I'm not sure how to feel about the change yet, but we'll see how it plays out. Honestly, this makes Thanquol unusable in my Magic heavy list now as I can't Skitterleap him in range to cast it with his +2\+3. The Arch-Warlock and Screaming Bell will likely see him replaced as the AW is 2nd place when it comes to getting off WLV (re-rolls and +1 to cast from Gnawhole) and then getting out in the movement phase back to safety.

Overall I'm fine with the changes and I really expected a lot more.. I find it funny that Skreech is even higher when already no-one really uses him outside of fluff VL lists. I should be able to make my standard and magic lists work, but I'll get back with you all on that. Overall I think lists are going to stay the same and the WLV will not be used outside of a Grey Seer\AW being skitterleaped to cast it.. and not everyone's going to want to do that and may opt for those points to go towards more monks or shooting.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Gwendar

[Gwendar]

So, this is what I'm coming up with for the magic heavy list... notice the Endless Spells have really been toned down. I went with Vermintide over Shackles simply for how well Vermintide can block units with it's large base and Palisade to further block things if needed. Now that Thanquol is useless, I can't use the AW to get off Shackles T1 as the AW needs to be on WLV duty.

The order-of-operations is typically (although always subject to change, of course): Bell SL's Arch-Warlock, Deceiver SL's Corruptor. AW casts WLV + signature and teleports out in Movement via Gnawhole. Now, here is where I'm in debate of Shackles or not; I could use the Corrupter to throw out Shackles in range of whatever is effected by the WLV or it can throw out a nice Pendulum in range to hit multiple units. The latter will do more damage, but ultimately it lets them have a better shot of getting out of WLV. Another option is Vermintide to block, but I still run into the same problem of having Pendulum be much more enticing. Plague or Mystic Shield will always be his second spell since I can't cast 2 endless spells... or else none of this would be debated.

Who knows, I'll probably just need to experiment and see what works better. 
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Endless Spells / Terrain
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Vermintide (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

For a more "standard" list, the changes aren't as bad.. but this is the only time I've considered dropping WLV. The reason for that is quite simply due to the fact I have to have the AW within range of my Jezzails and Acolytes. Previously I was able to get out the WLV, hurt a bunch of stuff and then shoot it before it got to me. I wanted to fit a Doomwheel in somewhere for a bit of forward momentum, but the only way to do that is dropping down to 6 Jezzails and 25 Acolytes and I haven't decided if it's worth it or not.

Again, I don't like Plague Monks despite their competitive power and I don't know that I ever will other than to try it out. I find that the Acolytes tend to act as the hammer well enough, especially with multiple units in range to split shots. That said, if I did ever want to do that, I would likely drop the Jezzails to 6, Acolytes to 15 (still ~15-20 damage fully buffed against a 4+ save) and throw in 40 of them... but that that point I may as well make a whole other list and get a Doomwheel or WLC's.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (300)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179
 

Anyway, I'll be giving these a shot throughout the coming weeks and I'll let everyone know once the batreps are up in case you're interested.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Gwendar

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Coyote said:

I see they corrected the Misprint regarding the Stormvermin.  

Jai and my currently used fluff/try hard list went down 10points😂

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Vermilord up, as expected. What do you think about those new points?

Well the Warpseer had it coming, nothing really that was stopping it it.

not sure why it hit the Warbringer but he will probably remain in my army still one of my favorites vermin-lords of all times (after me of course)

4 hours ago, Skavelynn said:

1)I think the HPA increase was kinda unnecessary but isn't bad.

2)Verminlords and Grey Seer going up was pretty obviously going to happen. Not sure why Skreech was increased 🤨

3)Plague Monks increase isn't going to change much, I still feel like they'll be spammed.

4)Stormvermin and Warpcog battalions are still too expensive in my opinion. Stormvermin need to be like 100 pts if they want to compete with plague monks and clanrats. Warpcog is really only useful if you planned on taking all those skryre units in the first place.

5)Ratling Guns going down was a surprise (yay!)

6)I think the WLV change is the biggest, since you'll need to rely on skitterleaps or gnawholes way more to cast it where you want. I don't see the skaven meta picks changing a whole lot, lists will just be a bit more expensive and maybe less WLV in games. 

 

1)well I’ve used the hell pit abominations  and believe me, he is probably one of the best chaos Monster we have in the grand allegiance right now.

throwing out mortal wounds rerolling them on twos against every model within 3 makes him a horde killer, while the other attacks can kill anything else in his way.

But what I really like about him is the allegiance ability from the moulder clan which basically can give him a free reroll to hits of 1 while getting another D3 (d6) extra wounds.

2)yeah not sure either, then again Rising the point cost of other Verminlords would give you guys probably a reason to doubt my abilities, which would consult to plotting and scheming, towards overthrowing my position as the left claw of the great horned rat.

(and no, he has no use for a right claw, so don’t think taking that spot will be easy)

 4)yeah Stormvermins still are a bit overcosted, but to be actually true with you, I am happy that Gw at least noticed the lack of support for that unit and at least started buffing them. And since they now cost as much as clanrats they will be an interesting option for non horde players who really want to field a mixed skaven army.

5)yep one of the reason why I’m considering of exchanging my 2 warpfire throwers for them.

6)it really is probably the biggest thing they have changed.

I mean with than step he has proven to us that they will change the wording of some war-scrolls, and in the end I’m feel much more happy if it changes rather than the points get increased to double the amount it already was written as. 

 

[mmimzie]

Honeatly think it might still be worth it to bring 2 greyseers on foot to get the WLV off. One to warp token skitter leap and the otherto cast the vortex. That second one could throw out plague for funzies. 

 

This is my list with the changes i think this is just under on points:

Grey seer on bell w/ master of magic + death frenzy

Warbringer

Warpseer w/supcious stone

Claw lord

Grey seer w/skitter leap

Grey seer w/plague

 

40x clan rats

40x clan rats

40x clan rats

 

Pendulum

WLV

Gravetide

Vermin tide

 

1990pts (i think)

[Obeisance]

Summary..

Vortex placed wholy within 13" not 26"

Hellpit 240 +20
Grey Seer 140 +20
Screaming Bell 220 +20
Skreech Verminking 320 +20
Furnace 200 +20
Corruptor 280 +20
Warbringer 280 +20
Warpseer 300 +40
Monks 80/280 +10/+40
Ratling Gun 60 -20
Stormvermin 120/450 -20/-50

Archspark Voltik 60 -50
Gascloud Chokelung 70 -50
Gautfyre Skorch 90 -50
Rattlegauge Warplock 70 -50
Whyrlblade Threshyk 80 -50
 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Obeisance

[Obeisance]

My list has a Warpseer, Grey Seer and Plague Monks. I guess it doesn't have a Vortex now. I kind of wish I didn't buy the box last weekend. =p

I don't think I'd take Stormvermin at that price, still. I was really hoping Stormfiends got cheaper as well.

But eh, it is what it is.

[mmimzie]

Honest 120 is perfect. I just think the discount is all wrong. It should have the same discount sequitors had qnd i think still sort of do?

Should be 120/400. Its verminus hordes should be easier, and at that pts cost they'd be perfect. They would be relatively tanky, but damn deadly in a frenzied or double frensied 40 block, but still wouldnt be quite as good as sequitors were at 400. 

 

Plus optically storm vermin being twice that of a normal clan rat feels right. 

While plague monks should maybe have alittle less of a discount or no discount at all.

Edited July 8, 2019 by mmimzie

[Darkhan]

If you have 2 grey seers, can both of them consume a warp token in the same hero phase?

Debating if it is worth it with 2 seers to get off the WLV.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Darkhan

[Skreech Verminking]

9 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

If you have 2 grey seers, can both of them consume a warp token in the same hero phase?

Debating if it is worth it with 2 seers to get off the WLV.

Yes.

the warpstone token is an ability which each grey seer can use for one spell per herophase.

[Obeisance]

Is fast moving objective grabbing a thing in this game?

I've had like 4 games now and 90% of the time it's people trying to ram armies down my throat top of 1, because my batallions suck and I never have first turn. I'm kind of trying to approach this with an old mindset/haven't played enough. I played Skaven back when Alessio Calvatore's book was a thing.

Core of my list..

Warpseer - General
Grey Seer - Death Frenzy or Plague
Bombadier - More Warp Power
Clawlord - Brutal Fury

40/40/20 Clanrats
40 Monks

Warplightning Cannon
Warpfire Thrower

Leaves me with 310. I also kind of want to start with an extra command point, so I have one top of 1 to battleshock immune my army against said turn 1 charges. I kind of worry that I'm playing the game too static and generally have trouble hitting objectives. All my opponents block off Gnawholes, so I don't have that mobility as an option.

I usually take Master of Magic, but I think it's kind of ****** if I'm not running the Vortex. So either Suspicious Stone/Master of Magic, or Verminous Valour and someone else gets like, Skavenbrew or Vigordust Injector.

Doomwheel - Does it function as a fast objective grabber?

Rat Ogres - 4 for 200 seems okay. They're not amazing, but they're cheaper than Stormfiends.

Pointers for a noob?

 

 

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Darkhan said:

If you have 2 grey seers, can both of them consume a warp token in the same hero phase?

Debating if it is worth it with 2 seers to get off the WLV.

Yes, but whether or not it's worth it is debatable in my book. I suppose if you don't have any Skryre units to buff, I would definitely go with 2 Grey Seers (or 1 on foot and another with Bell for it's amazing utility). But if you have anything to buff with at least MMMWP, the Arch-Warlock wins out on casting WLV due to his re-roll and also getting the +1 from Gnawholes on top of that, which the Grey Seer does not. Last I recall, the actual math was putting the AW in the lead with Thanquol and Grey Seer close behind.

All in all... the chances are probably close enough it doesn't matter. The survivability of the AW is honestly great for Objectives as well if all else fails.

37 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Is fast moving objective grabbing a thing in this game?

I've had like 4 games now and 90% of the time it's people trying to ram armies down my throat top of 1, because my batallions suck and I never have first turn. I'm kind of trying to approach this with an old mindset/haven't played enough. I played Skaven back when Alessio Calvatore's book was a thing.

Core of my list..

Warpseer - General
Grey Seer - Death Frenzy or Plague
Bombadier - More Warp Power
Clawlord - Brutal Fury

40/40/20 Clanrats
40 Monks

Warplightning Cannon
Warpfire Thrower

Leaves me with 310. I also kind of want to start with an extra command point, so I have one top of 1 to battleshock immune my army against said turn 1 charges. I kind of worry that I'm playing the game too static and generally have trouble hitting objectives. All my opponents block off Gnawholes, so I don't have that mobility as an option.

I usually take Master of Magic, but I think it's kind of ****** if I'm not running the Vortex. So either Suspicious Stone/Master of Magic, or Verminous Valour and someone else gets like, Skavenbrew or Vigordust Injector.

Doomwheel - Does it function as a fast objective grabber?

Rat Ogres - 4 for 200 seems okay. They're not amazing, but they're cheaper than Stormfiends.

Pointers for a noob?

It absolutely is, most lists across any army will try to take at least a single unit to nab late game objectives quickly.. or have access to a teleport, like Seraphon. Other than maybe wolf rats, the fastest thing we really have is the Doomwheel with an average of 14".. but I've also rolled 7" and 22" on it before so it isn't always reliable like good old Skaven tech should be. It's worth noting that I get a lot of objective wins late game by either auto-running Clanrats 6" (making them move 14" with the +2 from the Bell-ringers) or using their retreat + charge to slingshot them around to another objective that is lightly guarded.

Anyway: I try to start with an extra CP but that's harder to do now. What armies are you playing against? Are you sitting right on the edge of deployment? Most armies can't get to me T1 unless they deepstrike in (Fyreslayers, BoC, SC) so you have to read and understand what they're going to do and deploy accordingly. It's worth noting a Screaming Bell's 13" BS immunity bubble is nice for sitting up front, taking deepstrike bait and BS immuning the Clanrats that are around it.

Where are you placing Gnawholes? I've never had an issue unless I'm putting them in their deployment.. which is why I don't do that anymore. Against a low model count army, this is definitely something you can do, but anyone that has cheap screens has no issues sacrificing them to watch duty the entire game. Again, you just have to be able to see where they're going to move to T1\2 and if they will cover them up, and if they do how badly does will effect you early and late game? Do you think you can shift them off with shooting by late game so you can send something over? If you're aiming to place them near objectives so you can snatch them later on that's fine but no smart player is going to see you put a Gnawhole down next to an objective and not send something over there to keep you off it. If you can't clear it off with shooting, then you usually just have to hope they forget about them or are whittled down enough elsewhere that their cheap unit needs to move to contribute to the fight.

Master of Magic is great, but if you don't want your Warpseer dying then yeah, Suspicious Stone. I've had a Warpseer with Stone hold an objective for 3\4 turns (Duality of Death, the perfect objective game for this) to only ever take a total of ~4 wounds against probably 25+ that were thrown at it. Again, if you're running more Skryre I would do Vigordust, otherwise that artifact can be used elsewhere. Rat Ogres... yeah, you aren't wrong.. but I could find better uses for those 200 points in shooting or more Clanrats\Monks\Stormvermin.

[Verminlord]

Would a grey seer on balewind benefit from look out sir? Would you measure snoutgrovel robes from the balewind base since its "treated as being a single model"?

[Obeisance]

Hey, good reply. Thankyou.

Okay- so Doomwheel is okay. Try to use it as a late objective grabber, skirt the borders, etc. It's a bit unreliable, but that's Skaven.

What am I playing against? I've played..
Once against Beastmen, who could run/charge/appear off the board edges early.
Once against Nighthaunts with 2*30 Reapers and Cogs, appearing from the Underworld.
Once against Fireslayers, who had 3-4 giant dinosaurs.

I think there was once more 1500+ game, but I forget. I'm pretty new to AoS, but not games in general. Infinity's my usual thing. I have a game against Beastclaw Raiders tonight, apparently. 

How am I deplying? I've started deploying with a Clanrat bubblewrap around my army with 3" between them and my front line. That's what the 20 strong unit is for.

Hm the Bell. I have one but I haven't used it yet. BS immunity from it could be handy. I'd want to buy another Verminlord, just in case I rolled a 12. lol.

Gnawholes? One center of my army to be dry humped by the Verminlord, the other two on my opponent's extreme flanks in DZ. They tend to have chaff units to sit near them and deny me using them. I'll make a point to place them nowhere near objectives so my opponent has to choose.

As for more Skyre stuff? I'm waiting on parts to build Jezzails in the mail. I'm thinking about building Globadiers from the old SoD Poison Wind Mortar guys.

...

Maybe I'll add in a Bell and/or Doomwheel until my other stuff shows up.

[Obeisance]

Great, so I'm gonna try out a bunch of stuff tonight and see how it goes!

Warpseer: Master of Magic, Suspicious Stone, Dreaded Warpgale.
Grey Seer: Wither, Death Frenzy.
Warlock Bombadier: Warp Lightning, More Warp Power!
Seer on Bell: Crack's Call, Warp Gale.

40 Clanrats: Spears.
40 Clanrats: Spears.
20 Clanrats: Swords.
40 Monks: Stave, blade.
Ratling Gun.
Doomwheel.
Warplightning Cannon.
Skaventide.

2000pts even.

I ended up dropping the Clawlord as he's generally kind of mediocre to try new things. Haven't played the Bell, Wheel or Skaventide yet. So should be fun.

[5kaven5lave]

What about using WLV as a more defensive type screen now the range is reduced? In a Skryre list where there are no cheap bodies, could you put it down 6.1 in front of 9/12 Jezzails to deter charges and moving near to shoot them? I know it’s not a great idea but it’s all I can think of!!

[Skarn]

Having seen what WLV can do, a nerf was necessary. That said I dont think the 13" range is as big as people make it out to be, yes you will no longer be able to lock down your opponent in their deployment zone, but it still has a very large area of effect. As I understand only the first model must be wholly within 13", the other 2 only state that they must be 7" from the first. This means the furthest one can be 20" from the casting wizard and it still hits everything within 6", meaning hitting stuff 26" away. 

I think it will become a more defensive tool, but for 100pt I think its still well worth the points

[Obeisance]

Also question.

If you were going to build a second Verminlord- you already have a Warpseer, which would you make? And before you suggest it- waaay too many parts to magnetise. I was going to do that with my first one.

Corruptor? Warbringer?

 

[robbobobo]

I see the general sentiment regarding the FAQ is:

'Yeah, we saw it coming. No, we're not fussed.'

Although, I am quite happy with the Stormvermin points drop. I'll take 80 and feel less guilty for wanting a little bit of fun =P
 

38 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Also question.

If you were going to build a second Verminlord- you already have a Warpseer, which would you make? And before you suggest it- waaay too many parts to magnetise. I was going to do that with my first one.

Corruptor? Warbringer?

 

I would go with the Corruptor; it has a good amount of attacks, great spell, loves Sword of Judgement and you actually want it to be in the thick of it with Plague Monks for those sweet rerolls. The Warbringer, despite having some nasty attacks, is more support oriented. You don't want him to die before casting Dreaded Death Frenzy and it's command ability is best served in the middle of a Verminus block.

[W33daxe]

42 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Also question.

If you were going to build a second Verminlord- you already have a Warpseer, which would you make? And before you suggest it- waaay too many parts to magnetise. I was going to do that with my first one.

Corruptor? Warbringer?

 

Corrupter

But still. Magnetize it! Much easier that you think. Turn the arm of the big glaive so he holds it behind his back and magnetize the two sickles, the glaive and the orb. 

I’m not a magnet genius, but I just filled up his shoulders with epoxy, added the magnet to first pair of weapon/shoulders and put a blob of paint on it showing me where to magnetize the shoulder/torso. 

And yeah, explaning it (poorly) makes it sound harder than it was. 

Feeling cute, might post pictures later. 

😛 

[Num]

Hi all, it's been a while but I'll soon have time again to unleash the skaventide!

What are the strong plays or strats nowadays?

I'm looking to build a list that can evolve from 1000 to 2000 points.

I'm hesitating between very hordy (I've got 100 clanrats and 80 giant rats) and something more elite/magic (stormfiends).

 

Do you think that this list stands a chance, or does it lack versatility? Can it remove something that already stands on an objective?

Allegiance: Skaventide
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Master Moulder (100)
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Giant Rats (200)
40 x Giant Rats (200)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 229

 

I'm tempted to add a warpgrinder and/or a warpfire.

Cheers

[Unter]

58 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Also question.

If you were going to build a second Verminlord- you already have a Warpseer, which would you make? And before you suggest it- waaay too many parts to magnetise. I was going to do that with my first one.

Corruptor? Warbringer?

 

They do quite different things. Skitterleaped Corruptor with Sword of Judgement is very potent, and his spell is beast. That said, with how strong Suspicious Stone is, you often don't have that spare Artefact slot.

Warbringer probably outshines him if you are running a double monk block as it gives you two chances at the Death Frenzy effect (assuming you've already got a grey seer with it, which is compulsory with double monk) - which is huge.

Dreaded Death Frenzy also stacks with Death Frenzy so if you do get both spells down, those monks fight twice when they die. Plenty of armies have no way of dealing with that whatsoever.

[Obeisance]

... wow. I didn't realise Dreaded and Standard versions stack. That's pretty severe.

What other total BS combos are there I'm missing out on? lol

[Unter]

49 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

... wow. I didn't realise Dreaded and Standard versions stack. That's pretty severe.

What other total BS combos are there I'm missing out on? lol

Yea its nuts. And Dreaded is D3 units, so potentially frees up a cast for your Grey Seer if you cast it first, get it on both combat blocks, and don't need the second revive. 

Skaven are very strong so there's a few 😛

Using a Warpstone Spark you can add +1 damage to the shooting attacks of 3 Skryre units wholly within 13".  There are then multiple ways to access reroll 1s to hit (new generic Command Ability, Warlord Traits, Skryre Battalions), or reroll all hits and all wounds (More-More-More Warp Power! spell), so you can get Doomwheels, Acolytes on to D3+1 damage per wound, and Jezzails to a flat 3. 

Big units of Acolytes and Jezzails or Stormfiends will be the main beneficiaries here.

Monks you can get up to +7 attacks on when they charge when equipped with staves. This means that on death with both frenzies each single monk would have 21 attacks, with access to reroll hits from a prayer.

Highest damage output per point in the game, I'd warrant even with the point nerfs. You can even throw Vigordust Injector onto them for +1 to Hit and +1 to charge, allowing them to hit on 2s for most of their attacks - not that you need the extra damage by that point.

Also I wouldn't say Thanquol is busted by any means, but Thanq with 4 Warpfire Throwers will destroy any horde in the game even if he only gets within range of about 10-12.

 

[Gwendar]

9 hours ago, Verminlord said:

Would a grey seer on balewind benefit from look out sir? Would you measure snoutgrovel robes from the balewind base since its "treated as being a single model"?

Yes, it would still benefit and since it's treated as a single model, you measure from the BW.

9 hours ago, Obeisance said:

What am I playing against? I've played..

Once against Beastmen, who could run/charge/appear off the board edges early.
Once against Nighthaunts with 2*30 Reapers and Cogs, appearing from the Underworld.
Once against Fireslayers, who had 3-4 giant dinosaurs.

Hm the Bell. I have one but I haven't used it yet. BS immunity from it could be handy. I'd want to buy another Verminlord, just in case I rolled a 12. lol.

Gnawholes? One center of my army to be dry humped by the Verminlord, the other two on my opponent's extreme flanks in DZ. They tend to have chaff units to sit near them and deny me using them. I'll make a point to place them nowhere near objectives so my opponent has to choose.

As for more Skyre stuff? I'm waiting on parts to build Jezzails in the mail. I'm thinking about building Globadiers from the old SoD Poison Wind Mortar guys.

One of the best things you can do is string out something you don't care about to take those charges and then shoot\magic everything off and hope you get a double; give them no way to get into anything you care about as it will definitely melt through that 20-rat unit in 1 go. Really maximize the 1" cohesion to shut off as many areas as you can against the teleporting\deepstrike armies. A Bell + 40 Clanrats up front is great bait. You probably would have the hardest time against Nighthaunt since they don't care about rend, but Warpfire can usually fix those giant Reaper blobs. Overall your opponent may they may take early points but you should be able to beat them back early enough and get them back. Ultimately you can play this army aggressively or defensively and Gnawholes help with the latter, speaking of...

Against these armies in particular, yeah I can see them easily denying those. You definitely want to place them more centralized where they would have to move forward (and potentially out of their way) to commit to clogging them which puts them in range to deal with them if needed. Jezzails (at least 6) and Acolytes (20-30 for a longer lasting hammer.. MMMWP + Vigordust, etc will slowly kill them off) are great, but it invokes a different playstyle. I don't run any Monks or Stormvermin, so I rely more on careful movement and pre-measure everything to ensure my fragile stuff won't be touched, but will be able to remove 1-3 units per turn with shooting + magic.

For Verminlords, I love the Corruptor with SoJ, but I typically only do this with a Deceiver in the list as well to teleport him 6.1" away from something that needs to die and he can also be in range of and clear out hordes with his spell this way. Otherwise, the Warbringer is a definite include with Stormvermin\Clanrat\Monk heavy lists.
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As for the WLV discussion, using it as a roadblock is nice and definitely still worth it, but I think if you can pull off the Skitterleap + Gnawhole trick to get it in their deployment then I would still aim for that if a good opportunity arises. Some people are going to feel a lot safer with clumping their deployments together now if they aren't aware of this combination.